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jzones

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Savannah River Site Per Diem
« on: Sep 24, 2010, 03:40 »
In case you haven't heard they (Fluor, as SRNS) is reducing perdiem by almost 40% at the Savannah River Site. That coupled with the way Flour treats Staff Augumentation contractors makes this a place to avoid if at all possible. Most site workers are long term permanent and they really have a hard time with temporary personnel. If you must come here consider increasing your hourly billing rate, you'll need it to cover costs as the current perdiem rates will not do it for you. Unless your planning on living in your car.

Flour likes to advertise much longer employment periods than what you'll actuall work and overtime goes to onsite permanent not temporary employees.

Offline snowman

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #1 on: Sep 24, 2010, 04:27 »
In case you haven't heard they (Fluor, as SRNS) is reducing perdiem by almost 40% at the Savannah River Site. That coupled with the way Flour treats Staff Augumentation contractors makes this a place to avoid if at all possible. Most site workers are long term permanent and they really have a hard time with temporary personnel. If you must come here consider increasing your hourly billing rate, you'll need it to cover costs as the current perdiem rates will not do it for you. Unless your planning on living in your car.

Flour likes to advertise much longer employment periods than what you'll actuall work and overtime goes to onsite permanent not temporary employees.

So the overtime should go to the contractors first and not the permanent employees who've made that area home? Also, SRS back in the pre ARRA days usually never paid per diem to contractor HP's. I spent half of the 1990's there, I thought Westinghouse SRS was a pretty good place to work.  I think right now is as good as it's been for rent-a-techs in a long time. $100K+/yr for a 40 hour a week job at some of these places, not too shabby. Just my .02 cents worth...

jzones

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #2 on: Oct 05, 2010, 07:31 »
I agree if that had been the original arrangement. They are still hurting for solid rad people. I would encourage you to get your deal up front as the arrangements change often.

Offline Rennhack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #3 on: Oct 06, 2010, 07:41 »
Would you please explain how a contract HP earns $100K+/yr for a 40 hour a week job?  Do you base this on the hourly wage alone?  Or, are you including the estimated value of gratuities like health insurance, dental insurance, paid vacations, sick days, holiday pay, 401k matching contributions, structured retirement plan, and the like?

It would be hrly + Per Diem.

$35/hr * 2080 hrs = $72,800
$123/day * 365 days = $43,788 ($123 is Standard per Diem Rate for Oct 2010 -  Sep 2011)
Total = $116,588/yr

OR

$35.00/hr * 2080 hrs = $72,800
$52.50/hr *  520 hrs = $27,300 ($35 * 1.5 = $52.50)
Total = $100,100/yr


Above are 2 examples.  One working 40hrs/week with the standard per Diem, The other working 50 hrs/wk with no per Diem.  $100k+/yr is easily achievable.

(Note:  I understand that you shouldn't count overtime, or per Diem, but people do.  I also understand that you shouldn't get per Diem for a whole year... but people do.  -- It's just an example.)

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #4 on: Oct 06, 2010, 09:47 »
Good math.
But, let's not overlook the tendency of some people in our profession to exaggerate the hell out of things like how much money they make.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

stownsend

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #5 on: Oct 06, 2010, 11:54 »
Good math.
But, let's not overlook the tendency of some people in our profession to exaggerate the hell out of things like how much money they make.
And how much they're worth or know.

BetaAnt

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #6 on: Oct 06, 2010, 02:39 »
Problem with the math and contract reality.  :-X
RH, your hours are in error. 2080 is based on 52 - 40hr weeks. SRS has 11 holidays. That would give you 1990 hours per year. SRS has never paid the GSA per diem rate to rent-a-techs. Currently PD and benefits are tied to a 40 hour week. You may get paid $35/hr but, your OT rate will be based on YOUR base rate without per diem, health and welfare benefits, holidays, and vacation (i.e. $35 ST and $33 OT - base of $22.00). :'(
Until this year rent-a-tech HP have never been paid more than $30/hr. RAT contract have a rider limiting OT to less than 200 hours per contract year UNLESS the contract is amended with authorization from SRS management and HR (ain't happening). Site RadCon Inspectors b!tch to HR at the drop of a hat to protest RAT OT when house radcon has not been offered the same overtime (all FREAKIN' 420 of them). A lot of topped out SRS RCIs make more than their supervisors. Hell, why unionize SRS RadCon when you have such a sweetheart deal? I know of a more than a few SRS RCIs that buy a new Mercedes every three years, cruise the Bahamas and brag that they have maxed out their SS contribution.  :o
RATs get the shaft of at SRS unless you are selling something else or have tape of senior management screwing your pre-teen.  :'(

BA  8) 8) 8)

Offline Rennhack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #7 on: Oct 06, 2010, 03:12 »
Problem with the math and contract reality.  :-X
RH, your hours are in error. 2080 is based on 52 - 40hr weeks. SRS has 11 holidays. That would give you 1990 hours per year. SRS has never paid the GSA per diem rate to rent-a-techs. Currently PD and benefits are tied to a 40 hour week. You may get paid $35/hr but, your OT rate will be based on YOUR base rate without per diem, health and welfare benefits, holidays, and vacation (i.e. $35 ST and $33 OT - base of $22.00). :'(
Until this year rent-a-tech HP have never been paid more than $30/hr. RAT contract have a rider limiting OT to less than 200 hours per contract year UNLESS the contract is amended with authorization from SRS management and HR (ain't happening). Site RadCon Inspectors b!tch to HR at the drop of a hat to protest RAT OT when house radcon has not been offered the same overtime (all FREAKIN' 420 of them). A lot of topped out SRS RCIs make more than their supervisors. Hell, why unionize SRS RadCon when you have such a sweetheart deal? I know of a more than a few SRS RCIs that buy a new Mercedes every three years, cruise the Bahamas and brag that they have maxed out their SS contribution.  :o
RATs get the shaft of at SRS unless you are selling something else or have tape of senior management screwing your pre-teen.  :'(

BA  8) 8) 8)

They said they made 100k a year.  They didn't say it was at SRS, neither did I.  I answered the question asked.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #8 on: Oct 06, 2010, 07:13 »
Problem with the math and contract reality.  :-X
RH, your hours are in error. 2080 is based on 52 - 40hr weeks. SRS has 11 holidays. That would give you 1990 hours per year. SRS has never paid the GSA per diem rate to rent-a-techs. Currently PD and benefits are tied to a 40 hour week. You may get paid $35/hr but, your OT rate will be based on YOUR base rate without per diem, health and welfare benefits, holidays, and vacation (i.e. $35 ST and $33 OT - base of $22.00). :'(
Until this year rent-a-tech HP have never been paid more than $30/hr. RAT contract have a rider limiting OT to less than 200 hours per contract year UNLESS the contract is amended with authorization from SRS management and HR (ain't happening). Site RadCon Inspectors b!tch to HR at the drop of a hat to protest RAT OT when house radcon has not been offered the same overtime (all FREAKIN' 420 of them). A lot of topped out SRS RCIs make more than their supervisors. Hell, why unionize SRS RadCon when you have such a sweetheart deal? I know of a more than a few SRS RCIs that buy a new Mercedes every three years, cruise the Bahamas and brag that they have maxed out their SS contribution.  :o
RATs get the shaft of at SRS unless you are selling something else or have tape of senior management screwing your pre-teen.  :'(

BA  8) 8) 8)

Reality for sure.  It seems to suck to be a contract tech at SRS.
If I read it right, there are 11 holidays that they DON'T pay you for?
Are you saying:
  • that when an SRS tech comes here and brags about making $35/hr, he is really making $22/hr plus a measly $520/week per diem (if he works 40 hours)?
    that SRS contract techs are limited to 200 hours of OT per year?
    that they are not likely to get that 200 hours of OT?
    that house techs get preference for OT?
    that house techs make more money (such that they can afford nice new cars and vacations?
    that hourly house techs make more money than their salaried bosses?

I guess my questions to you are:
What about any of this seems unusual to you?
Why wouldn't you just apply for a house job if they get such a better deal?
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

mostlyharmless

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #9 on: Oct 06, 2010, 07:29 »
You stayed there for how many years? 12? It must have been really bad. Get over it. You got yourself ran off and instead of standing up you try to trash the place that paid your bills for over a decade. A lot of techs were hired since you started,you could have been one of them. Besides,your complaint is with the company you worked for,not SRS. And when I started there I made 20$hr and no diem. House was making a little less at the time.And when I went house it was 18$hr. You make you choices. Now I make a lot more and I still can't seem to afford a new Merc every three years.Its mostly true about overtime though. I do know one sub that is placed in the ot roster along with everyone else. And house was excluded from some sub ot rosters. No you do not represent the site fairly, but thats not your aim is it? Oh and I worked a few holidays as a sub.

Offline azkidd

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #10 on: Oct 06, 2010, 08:19 »
I have been working this plant since January.  40 hrs per week except for the scheduled 28 day outage.  I will be here until the end of December.  Currently at 81K+change, 13 weeks to go!  Gross $1770 weekly, wage and diem only.  Do the math.  I think Mike has it right!  And I don't even get paid near the numbers he is calculating!  I need a 3/4 ton vs the 1/2 ton I currently have.  Need to start shopping for Christmas!  Oh...I forgot...I don't get paid any vacation or Holidays.  I am happy!  4-10's and 3-day weekends!

Offline metalman40

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #11 on: Oct 07, 2010, 10:25 »
I don't know where everyone is getting these numbers but I recently left SRS and my base rate was $35.00 per hour.
I had a little over $3.00 added to that for health and welfare benefit. And $14.00/hr added on for diem. so for a 40 hour work week my pay rate was $38/hr taxable and $14/hr untaxed. OT was at 1.5X$35 or $52.50/hr.

At the solid waste facility we were getting offered ot .
Sometimes you just want to say dilligaf and go dfr.

Offline HenryBlack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #12 on: Oct 07, 2010, 10:48 »
I haven't worked there in a few years now, but when I was there for 4 years in the Burial Grounds I was treated exactly like a house person. If they got overtime and there was enough of it then I got it too. If there was just enough overtime work  for one or two people then I had to wait unitl they all turned it down. Thats the way it is pretty much everywhere that I work. I worked for VAS last time I was there and they paid us holiday pay for I believe 9 days and vacation pay accrued by the week that you could start to use after 90 days. Of course I don't get per-diem there so I didn't have to worry about that. I believe they are just like any other place where they are going to take care of their own first, and I don't blame them for that. If there is a problem with the way a Contractor treats people then maybe they should be getting the blame and not SRS. Oh well enough of that plus I have to cover the SPA, so i better get over there. Take care and be Safe.

Offline Rennhack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #13 on: Oct 07, 2010, 02:21 »
Good math.
But, let's not overlook the tendency of some people in our profession to exaggerate the hell out of things like how much money they make.

I posted above how a RP Tech working in the DOE world could easily make over 100k a year.  I started to wonder what a Power Plant Outage Worker would get a year.  The answer is half.  Below is the math.

The assumptions that went into the calculations are as follows:  I assumed they would get 11 weeks of work each spring and each fall, for a total of 22 weeks a year.  This is based on the current fall outage schedule covering a max of 11 weeks.  I used an average wage of $23/hr, and an average of 60 hrs a week.  I also included 100/day per diem. – No bonus or travel pay was included.
$23/hr x 60 hrs a week = $1,610 + $700 Diem = $2,310/wk x 22 weeks = $50,820.

There you have it.  Some RP’s make $50k/yr, some make over $100k/yr.  It depends if they prefer to have 30 weeks of vacation or not.

P.S.  If the power plant RP’s were making $35/hr and $123/day, they would make an additional $22k/yr ($72,842) – Not bad for 30 weeks off.

Offline walstib

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #14 on: Oct 07, 2010, 02:47 »
Additionally, most outage techs understand the unemployment requirements and the best states available for them to file.  Being conservative (without the extensions) lets say they max out after 26 weeks.  Average weekly benefit is approximately $550 per week x 26 weeks = $14,300 gross to be added to their yearly.  Add the $14,300 to your $72,842 = $87,142.  And you're right, thats not bad with 30 weeks off.
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mostlyharmless

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #15 on: Oct 07, 2010, 03:56 »
What would be a realistic yearly wage expectation on the road working outages?  I know folks here who have made over 100K in a year,not many,but they worked constantly, all over the site, every scrap of ot they could get,utilizing vacation time in order to work more. These were shift workers on a rotating 12 hr shift with a seven day break each month. For a house techs working 40hr/wk its tough to get over 70K. And they do not get 30weeks off.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #16 on: Oct 08, 2010, 06:22 »
RP Instructor is right.The bomb that SRNS dropped has annihilated almost all RP,heck any SUBCONTRACT personell who's getting per diem.The gist of the matter is that SRNS decided that whatever a corrupt few has done ,the remaining individuals must be doing also.I DISCERN  a lack of compassion and a bit of greed.   :o Heck it maybe even a political move.It would definitely hurt this presidency with a stimulus failure.It's not humane to Muzzle the OX while he's treading your grain I pray that the powers and principalities in charge take a long look at the new policies.I am pretty sure you have some believers in upper management too.This is just my spin on things,I could be wrong,could be right.Who knows??? :'( :'(
I thank  GOD for you with every remembrance of you.

mostlyharmless

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #17 on: Oct 08, 2010, 02:55 »
What has happened?

Offline techtoolong

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #18 on: Oct 10, 2010, 10:26 »
Some one give us the scoop.  What happened ?

Offline RP Instructor

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #19 on: Oct 10, 2010, 12:47 »
uR.ieL hit the nail on the head. A number of people scammed Savannah River Nuclear Solutions for per diem they were not eligible for (in fact, we lost one of the contract instructors I worked with for that very reason), so SRNS chose to respond by shaving-back everyone's per diem by ~40%. The response has been disasterous....six (6) contract RP technicians alone left at the end of this week. It explains the "clear sailing" now at the Aiken barricade in the morning, whereas I once waited ~15 minutes to make it through the line of traffic to the security checkpoint. Evidently many people chose to move-on.

Offline techtoolong

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #20 on: Oct 10, 2010, 01:16 »
Wow that sucks for those people that really have 2 households going.  I would leave. Actually I would already be gone.

alphatrakker

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #21 on: Oct 12, 2010, 04:09 »
Diem rules have changed.  They are now being enforced per gov regs.  Diem after a year?  Anywhere else get that?  BetaAnt was offered a house job 12-13 yrs ago and was too good to take it.  It's never good to start but it comes back.  OT for house is based on work group, currenlty 30 in D&D, not 420.  Contractors can and do work more than 200 hrs OT in a year, several on our list now.  I was RAT for 10 1/2 yrs before going house and it's tough taking the paycut but I know I'll get it back in the end.  I've said since the start ARRA would be the worst thing to happen to this site in it's history.  Proven right every day.  The biggest problem isn't the site but ARRA oversight.  Worse now than in normal operations mode.  Justification for everything and scrutiny beyond belief.

$.02

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #22 on: Oct 13, 2010, 01:58 »
With rule changes should come fairness.When one entity can pay there personell a higher lodging and meal allowance then the other groups ,than its not really based on the government rate. :-\  Theres more to this than meets the eye. :o With overtime at Savannah river ,a few months ago, you could of  lost a friend.To me,not worth friendships made.
« Last Edit: Oct 13, 2010, 02:08 by uR.ieL. »
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #23 on: Oct 13, 2010, 05:45 »
It's true that one's per diem is no longer tax-free after assignment at a location for more than one year. What I was receiving "tax-free" in per diem was subsequently 'rolled-over' into my hourly rate. Beginning on October 1, 2010, that  amount has since been reduced by ~40%. As stated previously, this is DOE's response to having paid per diem to those that were ineligible. A classic case of penalizing everyone for the sins of a few.

As for overtime, I don't get any for there is none to be had.

alphatrakker

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #24 on: Oct 13, 2010, 07:56 »
I see things have changed at SRS.  In years past at the end of a year the diem just went away.  No roll over to taxable status.  I guess I look at it differently than most.  I have a job when millions don't but I tell myself that if I weren't working here I'd be working somewhere else.  It's a good time to have rad skills.  SRS is looking for techs again.  RP Inst. come join us on the other side of the fence.  OT to be had there.  The down side of your position is being hourly in a salaried position.  And no matter how you move the audio switch the light won't come on! 

see you round....

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #25 on: Oct 14, 2010, 11:49 »
Any future hires coming to SRS, may want to read the GOA report link below. Depending on the findings and the political situation, extended funding will be questionable. Per Diem could be the least of all worries.

Enough throwing money at needless "job creating, austerity preserving" taxpayer funded projects.

(http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-816)

Nuclear Waste: Actions Needed to Address Persistent Concerns with Efforts to Close Underground Radioactive Waste Tanks at DOE's Savannah River Site
 GAO-10-816 September 14, 2010

"Emptying, cleaning, and permanently closing the 22 underground liquid radioactive waste tanks at the Savannah River Site is likely to cost significantly more and take longer than estimated............more than $600 million of this increase is due to increased funding needed to make up for significant losses suffered by Savannah River Site workers' pension plans as a result of the recent economic crisis"

Offline RP Instructor

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #26 on: Oct 14, 2010, 12:45 »
And no matter how you move the audio switch the light won't come on!  

see you round....

Touche! I've learned to laugh at myself! I'm happy were I am, and (as you pointed out) grateful to have a job in this crappy economy.

I'll see you in class!
« Last Edit: Oct 14, 2010, 12:46 by RP Instructor »

Raleighwood

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #27 on: Oct 19, 2010, 09:16 »
I'm "Staff Augmentation" at SRS on month 3 of a 12 month contract.  Still reeling over how per diem rules were changed mid-contract.  I can accept changes being applied to new hires and re-up's but hitting folks who signed employment contracts based (in no small part) on per diem as it was prior to Oct 1...not fair. 

I can see everyone rubbing thumb and index finger together, playing those tiny violins.

My employer claims utilities are not considered part of lodging expense and are classified as an incidental expense.  There's nothing "incidental" about utilities...that implies one could get by w/o having them.  Coworkers with different employers are getting utilities covered under lodging.  Does anyone have a good link outlining what is/isn't covered by DOE on short term stays?

Thanks

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #28 on: Oct 19, 2010, 11:40 »
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch01.html#en_US_publink100033764

These are the federal government rules for travel expenses.

Whenever they refer to something as being deductible, it is equally true that the employer may reimburse it tax-free (in which case it would not be deductible from income, but you wouldn't have to report the reimbursements as long as they follow the same rules.)

This is a quote from that publication.

"Incidental expenses.    The term “incidental expenses” means:

      Fees and tips given to porters, baggage carriers, bellhops, hotel maids, stewards or stewardesses and others on ships, and hotel servants in foreign countries,

      Transportation between places of lodging or business and places where meals are taken, if suitable meals can be obtained at the temporary duty site, and

      Mailing costs associated with filing travel vouchers and payment of employer-sponsored charge card billings.

Incidental expenses do not include expenses for laundry, cleaning and pressing of clothing, lodging taxes, or the costs of telegrams or telephone calls. "

It MUST be noted, however, that an employer is not under any obligation whatsoever to reimburse anything.  If they do, they are not required to reimburse them in full, or to pay the maximum per diem amounts.  They can also decide to reimburse some expenses and not others.  They are only bound by their agreement with you (contract) and the law.  It doesn't matter even a little tiny bit what other employers have agreed with their employees to reimburse.  You don't work for those employers.  If you think your contract is unfair, you should not have signed it.  You can ask to renegotiate.  Failing that, you take what they give, and don't sign the next contract unless you agree to it.

You are walking on the edge right now anyway.  If you have leased a house or apartment, and don't have a paying job back home where your other house is, then your tax home is probably right where you are at this minute - meaning that you aren't entitled to any tax-free reimbursements for any meals, lodging, or incidental expenses at all.

Duplicating living expenses is not enough to determine eligibility.  Lots of people have two residences.  Only one of them is their tax home.  Maybe neither of them is their tax home.  If you make money in one place and not at another, guess which one of the two is your tax home.

If I were in your position, I wouldn't cry too loud -- especially to the Federal Government of all places -- for fear that they might actually listen.  It won't take much for them to get an IRS determination that you aren't entitled to what you have been getting, that you owe back taxes and penalties, that you need to repay the allowances that you have received, basically that you have been working for nothing.  Take this as an expensive lesson and move on.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #29 on: Oct 19, 2010, 12:48 »
One more point on per diem. Per diem becomes taxable at the point at which it is determined the assignment will last one year or more. (A contract that states "12 months" has been determined to be "one year or more".)

If an assignment to a location is expected to last more than one year, or actually
lasts longer than one year, then any per diem paid at this "temporary" location is considered
compensation. (Compensation is taxed at a much higher rate than earned income) The one-year rule applies beginning with the date the "employer" determines the assignment will exceed one year. (In your case, when you accepted, the contract stated "12 months")

Be prepared for a delayed tax liability determination even after your augmentation assignment is over. Or maybe even more "rule changes".

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #30 on: Oct 19, 2010, 07:22 »
First.  One year is not more than one year.  A temporary assignment is one that is expected to last, and in fact does last, one year or less.  A 12 month contract is still a temporary assignment.

Where the trouble comes in is that, temporary or not, it has to be away from your tax home.  Tax home is the place where you make the most money.  If you have established residence in one place, then establish a second residence where you have a job, the place with the job would be considered your tax home.

Repeated assignments to one place that are each one year or less, could be used to determine that it is your tax home.  (The practice of working 11 months in one place and taking a month off to "reset the clock" is total bulls#!t!)  If you READ the IRS regs that I posted above, you will see that this is true.

Second.  Compensation and earned income are two terms that mean exactly the same thing.  They are taxed at the same rate (because they are the same thing).

Third.  The determination of greater than one year duration can happen at any time.  However, if a contract expires at the end of one year, the assignment is a one year assignment.  On the date you are offered a new contract or an extension, that is the day that your per diem becomes either non-payable or taxable.  The actual date that tax-free per diem ends is at any time the assignment is "expected" to last longer than a year or at any time the length of the assignment is indefinite.  If the employer tells you that you will be there for over a year, but lays you off after a week, your per diem was taxable for that week.

The addiction to per diem is worse than crystal meth for nukes.  It has led to an entitlement mentality that simply does not reflect the real world.  The fact that you have a job, and that job is not in your hometown, does not automatically mean that you should get per diem.  Check in with the rest of the world for a taste of reality.  When you live in Arkansas, and the only job is in Utah, you move to Utah or you stay unemployed.

Rules of thumb:  If you own the bed you are sleeping on, and there is no trailer hitch or tent poles attached to the room it is in, you don't get per diem.  If you pay the gas and electric bill where you are spending the night tonight, you don't deserve per diem.  If your wife and kids are using the same toaster and microwave as you, and they aren't your co-workers, no diem for you.
« Last Edit: Oct 19, 2010, 07:28 by BeerCourt »
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #31 on: Oct 28, 2010, 03:52 »
 Hang on folks more changes are  8) coming,they just don't know what changes are coming yet :D :D
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #32 on: Nov 05, 2010, 09:22 »
Actually things at SRNS (really Fluor) as in the winner’s of Portsmouth. Considering their rad problems a SRS they must have made a major political contribution to get that award, but I digress.

Currently married couples can’t both collect perdiem for doing the same work at SRNS. Also though they pay lip service to alternative life styles, a marriage license is required to get paid there if your wife wants to stay in your actual residence, so much for the life partners they claim to support through GLOBE. Check out their procedure:

The document is SRNS-MS-2008-00024, Rev. 2, October 1, 2010, SAVANNAH RIVER NUCLEAR SOLUTIONS, LLC, TRAVEL COMPENSATION SCHEDULE FOR SUBCONTRACTS

For Example
Only one member of a married couple, where both are employed on a temporary assignment at SRS, is eligible for per diem.

Subcontractor employees must work a minimum of five (5) hours each workday to be eligible for per diem for that day.

Now here’s the best part. None of this applies to Fluor’s people on temporary assignment or to any temporary’s working for DOE.

Top this with the fact the SRNS intends massive layoffs of current permanent site personnel so they can subcontract the work to their teaming partners. The Layoff request has already been submitted to DOE. You’ll hear static about it involving recovery act funds but that's a smoke screen.

Stay away from SRS!! Plenty of other work available.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #33 on: Nov 05, 2010, 03:15 »
Please re-write so I have a chance of understanding what it is you are trying to say.  Do you work at SRS?
writes like mostlyharmless, huh?

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #34 on: Nov 09, 2010, 03:28 »
Another point,SRS won't even give the married partner meals,the thought process is they can both eat off the 20 dollars a day for meals and incidentals.I know ,I HEAR YOU just find another job,lots of work available.  I guess I 'll need to keep my receipts for income tax time. Reap what you sow though.   And boy oh boy,do they have radiological problems,nuff said.   
« Last Edit: Nov 09, 2010, 03:33 by uR.ieL. »
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Offline Rennhack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #35 on: Nov 09, 2010, 03:49 »
SRS won't even give the married partner meals,the thought process is they can both eat off the 20 dollars a day for meals and incidentals.

That is a good point.  The concept of NOT giving double per Diem to couples is to not pay for the lodging twice.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #36 on: Nov 09, 2010, 08:56 »
Of course, I am of several diverse opinions on this.

An employee is an employee.  There isn't usually a requirement to tell who your spouse is and where he/she works when applying for a job.

Many companies will not allow the employment of two members of the same family in the same department.  Therefore, many companies do not hire "package deals".  That is, you  don't automatically both get hired just because one of you does.  The luxury of being able to arrange employment for a husband and wife together seems to come at a price sometimes.

It is much cheaper for a married couple to live and eat than it would be for two other employees who have no relationship.

This is also true for an un-married couple who are apparently both eligible to draw per diem at SRS.  Seems unfair.  Refer to three paragraphs up.

All of this would probably never come to pass as it has if people hadn't been working the system for so many years by drawing per diem at a place where they live and work for most of every year.  An apparent raw deal is nearly always the inevitable reaction (or over reaction) to somebody ripping off the system and ruining it for the honest majority.

Like the man said:  if you don't like it, work somewhere else.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #37 on: Nov 09, 2010, 10:09 »
BeerCourt is correct on the several direrse opinions!

The problem comes in (for the folks that are trying to minimize pay-out and maximize pay-in - Gov Sites) when you hire more than one person with the same last name.  How do you justify paying 'John Smith' and 'Joe Smith' and then deny 'Pete Smith' and 'Pam Smith".  Because you also get into TITO, etc.

It was so much easier when you hired a Sr Tech and then hired (his/her spouce) as a Jr/Dosimetry Tech for a flat rate.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #38 on: Nov 10, 2010, 11:36 »
Truth is SRS does not want to pay perdiem here and could care less if they kept the folks who where currently collecting per diem. As of October they cut perdiem and changed everybody to subsistence, you could make up to 74.00 /day max if you qualified by showing receipts. Other than that you take what you can get. Also they have not paid any subsistence out since the first of October until they (SRS) do an evaluation to prove you are even qualified to get it. There are a lot of frustrated RCT'S down here. Some of the project's suggested upping the hourly rate to make up the difference, We are waiting to see if that flies..

Offline redline

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #39 on: Nov 11, 2010, 07:44 »
Truth is SRS does not want to pay perdiem here and could care less if they kept the folks who where currently collecting per diem. As of October they cut perdiem and changed everybody to subsistence, you could make up to 74.00 /day max if you qualified by showing receipts. Other than that you take what you can get. Also they have not paid any subsistence out since the first of October until they (SRS) do an evaluation to prove you are even qualified to get it. There are a lot of frustrated RCT'S down here. Some of the project's suggested upping the hourly rate to make up the difference, We are waiting to see if that flies..

Truth is per diem IS subsistance. per diem = per day or other wise put $74 subsistence per day = $74 per diem, not $74 per diem per day. So the change is they want proof you have additional living expenses, nothing new just a way to cut your overall compensation for working there.

Regardless of what anyone has stated over the years. Per diem has never been considered living expense by roadies. If that were the case they would use it for that and get a hotel room versus an apartment etc. Roadies look at perdiem as compensation and do whatever necessary to bring that money home. Therefore per diem, in reality not perception, is cost of a tech pay. You either accept it for what it is or go somewhere else...where you haveto use it for living expense. Learn the new rules and you should know how to play the game.

 

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #40 on: Nov 11, 2010, 05:05 »
No Diem, no see-um.  So far, my wife and I haven't had a problem with getting per Diem at any site we wanted to work at, and the ones that didn't offer any Diem were summarily dismissed.  As far as paying per Diem for only one spouse, that is a game stopper.  Do they also do as Rocky Flats did back in 1999 when the techs that were working there couldn't even get an apartment together?  Back then, they each had to have a rental agreement with a different address.  It is the same with married couples who both work at a site.  If they decide to live in the same house, THAT IS THEIR BUSINESS!!  The pay should be the same, One Tech, One Check.  If they decided to enforce the real rules at the IRS, then everyone would have to submit expenses and return every cent of per Diem that wasn't used.  But then they would have anyone left that would be willing to work the short jobs.  As far as Beercourt's idea that we should move to Utah (or anywhere) if there is a job there, if I wanted a permanent job, I would move, but for temporary jobs moving is not an option.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #41 on: Nov 15, 2010, 02:50 »
It's all beginning to come together. DOE is reducing operating expenses at SRS, period, by reducing SRNS employee staffing levels, and scaling back on living expenses for contract employees.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #42 on: Nov 15, 2010, 04:35 »
What's so sad about SRS is the lack of compassion for even the permanent personell who are about to be hit with a (layoff) hurricane.The surrounding communities can bury there heads in the sand if they want too,but its a ever spreading effect. Everything I had heard and hoped to be false about SRS seems to be true.I guess ACTS was just playing the game according to the rules too. :-X Being mindful of this topic,the idea that married couples eat less has me wondering.I  need the study,documentation that backs that. Most of the time with married couples you don't run into the fraternization issues,less sick time with spouses,more likely to be at work,besides I'm a big guy 6' 225 lbs,I NEED MY MEAT :D
« Last Edit: Nov 15, 2010, 04:52 by uR.ieL. »
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CATCH22

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #43 on: Nov 15, 2010, 05:09 »
  Beer Court, if you look futher into your link you will find this quote
If you do not have a regular or a main place of business because of the nature of your work, then your tax home may be the place where you regularly live. See No main place of business or work , later.

Publication 463(2009)http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch01.html#en_US_publink100033757

Offline Camella Black

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #44 on: Nov 15, 2010, 08:18 »
What's so sad about SRS is the lack of compassion for even the permanent personell who are about to be hit with a (layoff) hurricane.The surrounding communities can bury there heads in the sand if they want too,but its a ever spreading effect. Everything I had heard and hoped to be false about SRS seems to be true.I guess ACTS was just playing the game according to the rules too. :-X Being mindful of this topic,the idea that married couples eat less has me wondering.I  need the study,documentation that backs that. Most of the time with married couples you don't run into the fraternization issues,less sick time with spouses,more likely to be at work,besides I'm a big guy 6' 225 lbs,I NEED MY MEAT :D


What is this suppose to mean? I am from a major surrounding community and we are well aware of what happens at SRS; not only do many of us have family or friends that work permanently at the site or as rent a techs but we (local economy) depends upon the site and its workers. We are all too aware of what is happening or can happen such as the closing of the local burial ground (Chem Nuclear) which devastated our schools, community budgets and those that lost jobs.

SRS is not the only site that does not allow per diem to be paid to both spouses, this has been a problem in various areas for decades... at least you can both work the same site... when I began in this business back in the seventies I could not work at the same site as my father as he was a supervisor, then in the eighties I had some objecting to my working with my spouse.

And finally as far as running into problems with spouses working together; you have them they are just different ones.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #45 on: Nov 15, 2010, 09:18 »
  Beer Court, if you look futher into your link you will find this quote
If you do not have a regular or a main place of business because of the nature of your work, then your tax home may be the place where you regularly live. See No main place of business or work , later.

Publication 463(2009)http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch01.html#en_US_publink100033757

No need to point me to that link, but you might try reading it over a couple of times (good advice for reading any tax regulation).  The key word in that sentence is "may".  It is also noteworthy that the phrase "regularly live" means that you actually live there.  So, if you have a house in Fiji (which is where I hope to retire) but spend 11 months a year at Savannah river, you actually "regularly" live in the local area of SRS.  Really, go read pub 463 twice, paying special attention to the examples, and you'll see what I mean.
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CATCH22

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #46 on: Nov 16, 2010, 11:29 »
Thanks Beer Court. I think that you are probably right in the example that you gave. If you are a commercial plant worker you probably would be able to prove that your permanent residence was your tax home. You should read how most of our Congressmen treat per diem.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #47 on: Nov 16, 2010, 08:53 »
We would be prosecuted if we treated per diem the same way that they do.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #48 on: Nov 16, 2010, 10:31 »
Camella,don't misunderstand me,the timing,(THANKSGIVING,Christmas) leaves a lot to be desired.Being at SRNS  and seeing people that I have come to call friend stress out about an impending layoff leaves me a little sad. Me,I's a SUBconTRACTOR,I expect a layoff,the House techs don't. You are right, same things from 70's,80's,even into the nineties exist in this business. As a minority In this nuclear world the DISCREPANCIES are oh so easily recognized. I have worked  INEEL,NTS,Sandia labs and have never ran into the issues that are going on here.  ???   
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2010, 10:39 by uR.ieL. »
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #49 on: Nov 16, 2010, 10:57 »
What I can't understand is why all the arguing here.  The first rule of being a traveling tech is to calculate what you have left after expenses, the adjusted gross.   If a site is not doing it for you, go to where you are paid better.   The contractor or employer has no love for you, just your services.   Be the same way back, go to the higher bidder factoring in job satisfaction and working conditions.  That is the life of a traveling tech.   If someone is cutting diem down by 40%, the good will vote with their feet and the dregs will remain, as always.   Or become a house tech and get real benefits, not the measly $3/hour on a 40 hours week.  You life and future is in your own hands.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #50 on: Nov 17, 2010, 07:26 »
You're absolutely right Content1.Someone has to have some common sense n this world.I must be letting the radiation get to me :D :D.Nuff said
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #51 on: Feb 05, 2011, 11:43 »
Local news broke this yesterday but it still has not hit the print media yet. SRS is busting people for fraudulent per diem and collecting it back LUMP SUM  :o :'( :(

http://wjbf.com/ar/1424949/?sms_ss=email&at_xt=4d4d788036e8b0a4%2C0

Like the DeNuke description reads "Documentation required and proof of eligibility to receive per diem must be flawless." Federal prosecution is optional. :( :( :(

Not a good day at SRS.

BA  8) :( 8)

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #52 on: Feb 05, 2011, 01:55 »
http://www.aikenstandard.com/Local/0204-SRS-embezzlement

Three charged with embezzling from DOE
2/4/2011 12:09 AM
By ANNA DOLIANITIS
Staff writer

Three Savannah River Site contract employees were charged by the U.S. Attorney's Office for embezzlement charges related to fraudulent per diem expenses to the Department of Energy during their employment at SRS.

Yep....I'd be lining-up a lawyer right about now if I scammed SRS for per diem. :o

BetaAnt

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #53 on: Feb 05, 2011, 05:00 »
Instead of per diem, RATs should demand a relocation package and a firm contract.  :D

But, who am I to fool, THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!  >:(

Caveat emptor 

BA  8) 8) 8)

Content1

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #54 on: Feb 05, 2011, 10:57 »
Can someone explain what is difference about SRS and per diem or subsistence compared with other traveling sites.   What about the 1 year limits before per diem is taxable, any changes to this?  If a spouse cannot get per diem together, why not legally separate before you go?

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #55 on: Feb 06, 2011, 09:17 »
Word on the street is the attorney general has been asking questions at West Valley also.   The question is not about taxes but eligibility to receive it in the first place.  It seems like there is more than one audit going on.  In the commercial world Duke Power is also auditing per diem. There where arrests at Plum Brook a few years ago but never heard the outcome.

Content1

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #56 on: Feb 07, 2011, 03:37 »
I read the post for this thread and one parts does not make sense.   The reason why a person would travel is to get per diem to offset the travel costs.   When you leave your home area to go to an away job, you must have a home to qualify in the first place.  Yet, I get from the posts that when you leave your home area to take a job like at SRS, your ability to work at home is ended for the time you are away.   Say you stay 11 months at a temporary position, when the IRS audits they will claim that you working area is the new area because you are not working back home?  Unless I get the Star Trek transporter, going to one place precludes being at another.   Is this some IRS catch 22 situation, you can't win or there is no way to follow the rules if time away from home exceeds 6 month, making the new location you primary work location?   Sound crazy if this is the interpretation?  If it was, the longest assignment away from home would be 6 months.   Defeat the whole idea of per diem.   Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but if the law is so convoluted as to make how to follow it unclear any reasonable jury would let you off.   I would if such a case came before me.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #57 on: Feb 07, 2011, 05:29 »

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but if the law is so convoluted as to make how to follow it unclear any reasonable jury would let you off.   I would if such a case came before me.


Brilliant!

Juror #3 in deliberations - - -"Hey, we all know he broke the law but the law was wasn't written clear enough for that embezzling bastard to understand!!  The hell with those instructions the Judge gave us, I vote not guilty!!!"

OJ would love your logic.


Content1

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #58 on: Feb 07, 2011, 10:57 »
In a criminal trial it is "guilty beyond reasonable doubt."   As a juror I would have lots of doubt.   You did not answer my question, that is at what point does you "trip" convert you to having moved you place of work.  I see lots of reasonable doubt here on the rules if I am given the answer "See a professional." 

I get a call for a job, I go there and I stay less than a year, I come home, take a different job somewhere else.   Later in the year I come back after a reasonable time at a different job.   It seems like I am not skirting the law here, only trying to follow it.  It is legal as one supreme court judge said: Court ruling: You can structure tax affairs to pay the least tax http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295168?oid=492156&sn=2009+Detail.   

So if I am planning my affairs trying to pay the least tax legally, the attack later by the IRS or anyone else is wrong.   You should be able to go to a job and not have a "roll of the dice" that maybe you are a criminal, maybe you are not.  If that is truly the case eventually you will have no travelers.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #59 on: Feb 07, 2011, 11:06 »
I get a call for a job, I go there and I stay less than a year, I come home, take a different job somewhere else.   Later in the year I come back after a reasonable time at a different job.   It seems like I am not skirting the law here, only trying to follow it.  It is legal as one supreme court judge said: Court ruling: You can structure tax affairs to pay the least tax http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page295168?oid=492156&sn=2009+Detail.   

Is that what happened? I don't see a lot of details on the case. Maybe you can link us to a better description.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #60 on: Feb 07, 2011, 02:15 »
Yeah I see what you are getting at content, I think the point is the odds on some rolls are WAY more favorable than other rolls.  And you might be better off betting less too.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #61 on: Feb 08, 2011, 01:05 »
Is that what happened? I don't see a lot of details on the case. Maybe you can link us to a better description.
Keeping in mind the one year limit for per diem away from home to the same away site general rule.

If you read all the earlier posts it talked of people being charged with fraud, and other posts spoke that if you work away from your home most of the year, you lose your residency at your home even if you are still living in it off season in less than a years time.    For me personally,  I spoke to someone from the IRS asking before I took my first long term DOE site and this person told me if I maintained my home and the assignment was told to be less then a year I was OK, and especially if I did not return to that site after a break but went some place else I was OK.   What the posts here seem to imply if you do not have actual work in your home location greater then the away location you are committing fraud somehow if the IRS audited you.   I replied the act of trying to limit your taxes is not an attempt at fraud but an allowable doctrine from Supreme Court decisions.   I finally state if you are doing everything you can short of simply giving up and not accepting per diem, it should not come down to something like a "roll of the dice" that you will be accused of committing fraud by someone in the future when you are following the rules.   If it comes to that you will lose all your travelers.   I hope that make it clear my concern.  This whole site is dedicated to travelers who for all but a few, are not trying to skirt the laws and shouldn't live in such uncertainty of what the rules are.

Offline techtoolong

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #62 on: Feb 08, 2011, 08:50 »
I am confused as to why everyone keeps bringing up the IRS. This is not tax fraud.  The issue is not maintaining a home residence and collecting per diem. You can pay taxes on the per diem but if you own a home near the site or do not have a legitimate residence some where else you are not entitled to the $$$$ in the first place.
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2011, 09:05 by techtoolong »

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #63 on: Feb 08, 2011, 09:11 »
So my question is "Is that what happened with these guys?" We can throw out a ton of conjecture. But your argument seems like it came from the hay bales.

Was it just an issue of the job lasting more than a year and an issue of loss of residency? Or was it more like Plum Brook where people actually lived 30 miles away?

A charge of fraud usually has to show some intent.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #64 on: Feb 08, 2011, 10:45 »
Honestly (I used that word intentionally) it is not difficult to remain within the law where per diem is concerned.  Those who are finding it difficult are those who are attempting to manipulate or circumvent the law using flimsy logic and conveniently ignoring the parts of the law that they don't like.

True, we are talking about different laws - not just the tax law.  Where can you get hurt?  Well, if you receive payments that should be taxed, and you didn't pay the tax, you end up in debt to the IRS.
If the IRS finds that you were trying to evade taxation, you end up in criminal court.  If your employer, or their client, decides that you were claiming payments of any kind that you weren't eligible to receive, you may be charged with fraud or embezzlement.  Some people will be facing all three.  Most people will face none of them, because they are honest.

Morality and legality are two separate concepts.  Often they do not overlap.  But, a simple rule of thumb for those who don't wish to keep a lawyer on retainer full-time is that if you feel the need to rationalize your actions, you are probably breaking the law.  If the phrase "I deserve it" ever crosses your mind, it is almost certain that you told yourself that to justify the fact that you have no legal right to it.

You know if you are doing the right thing or not.  People who ask for advice are really looking for an accomplice.  So, if you need a lawyer to tell you whether you should be getting per diem, you probably should not.
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2011, 09:52 by BeerCourt »
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #65 on: Feb 09, 2011, 01:29 »
Honestly (I used that word intentionally) it is not difficult to remain within the law where per diem is concerned.  Those who are finding it difficult are those who are attempting to manipulate or circumvent the law using flimsy logic and conveniently ignoring the parts of the law that they don't like.

True, we are talking about different laws - not just the tax law.  Where can you get hurt?  Well, if you receive payments that should be taxed, and you didn't pay the tax, you end up in debt to the IRS.
If the IRS finds that you were trying to evade taxation, you end up in criminal court.  If your employer, or their client, decides that you were claiming payments of any kind that you weren't eligible to receive, you may be charged with fraud or embezzlement.  Some people will be facing all three.  Most people will face none of them, because they are honest.

Morality and legality are two separate concepts.  Often they do not overlap.  But, a simple rule of thumb for those who don't wish to keep a lawyer on retainer full-time is that if you feel the need to rationalize your actions, you are probably breaking the law.  If the phrase "I deserve it" ever crosses your mind, it is almost certain that you told yourself that to justify the fact that you have no legal right to it.

You know if you are doing the right thing or not.  People who ask for advice are really looking for an accomplice.  So, if you need a lawyer to tell you whether you should be getting per diem, you probably should not.

You get offered a job away from your home.   Your travel to it.   You work there under a year.   You come home.   You take a job some place else.   The traveling tech's life in a nutshell and I hope it is that simple.    You do not travel looking for trouble.   Your goal is to legally earn as much as possible and keep of much of it as you can.   Nobody is looking to be dishonest.   We just want to follow the rules, and stay out of trouble.   I have always been told you do NOT have to report left over per diem  or travel pay.   If you can save some of this money due to better money management practices, why should you not be able to keep it?   Some of the posts put that in question.  If everything I say in this paragraph is a correct assumption, being honest and following the law are the same thing.   If there is some sort of trap in what I am describing, only then I have a concern.   I no longer travel, my daughters do and always want then to follow the law and be honest at the same time. 

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #66 on: Feb 09, 2011, 10:10 »
You get offered a job away from your home.   Your travel to it.   You work there under a year.   You come home.   You take a job some place else.   The traveling tech's life in a nutshell and I hope it is that simple.    You do not travel looking for trouble.   Your goal is to legally earn as much as possible and keep of much of it as you can.   Nobody is looking to be dishonest.   We just want to follow the rules, and stay out of trouble.   I have always been told you do NOT have to report left over per diem  or travel pay.   If you can save some of this money due to better money management practices, why should you not be able to keep it?   Some of the posts put that in question.  If everything I say in this paragraph is a correct assumption, being honest and following the law are the same thing.   If there is some sort of trap in what I am describing, only then I have a concern.   I no longer travel, my daughters do and always want then to follow the law and be honest at the same time. 
Honesty and following the law are not necessarily the same thing, but being honest makes it easier to stay within the law.
If your activities are as you describe them, no problem.
Unsubstantiated reimbursements have to be reported as income.  If you receive a per diem allowance, and that allowance is at or below the GSA rate, then the allowance itself is substantiation of the expense.  If the GSA rate is $123, and you get $90 per day (under an accountable plan), you do not need receipts to show that you had $90/day in expenses.  You do not need to return or report any incidental excess that may be left over from that $90.
The problems arise when the person who is in the situation above tries to deduct the $33 difference as an expense (Lots of people do it.  They are breaking the law.) Also, it is trouble when the person has worked at the same site year after year, never working at any other place for nearly as much time, probably owns a house there or has a lease on one, perhaps brings the wife and kids along, yet still collects per diem there.
Your assertion that nobody is looking to be dishonest, and that "we" just want to follow the rules may be true about you and some of the people you know, but it is certainly not true of all the traveling nukeworkers.  The industry is infested with people who use non-existent technicalities within the law to justify improper payments of per diem or illegal tax deductions.  That is not the same as keeping the few measly bucks left over from your properly paid per diem allowance.  They are going to get caught; they are going to ruin everything for all the honest people, and before long we'll all be submitting expense reports with receipts for every meal.  We'll be going through a pile of paperwork every week just to get reimbursed penny-for-penny for the expenses we can prove.  There won't be any excess to bank, and it won't be worth the headache to keep track of every little expense.
It is already happening.  That is the point of this whole thread.  A few scammers have called attention to per diem payments to everyone.  They have everyone under the microscope for the deeds of a few.  Every time this happens, everybody pays the price.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #67 on: Feb 09, 2011, 11:19 »
I think you cleared it up.  Thank you for taking the time.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #68 on: Feb 09, 2011, 01:46 »
Whatever you do, don't ever work for Weirich, Inc.  They have not paid anyone at SRS PD since October. Yes, they are three months behind.  Bob Weirich wants to blame it on SRNS, but I think he doesn't have the money to operate his business so he takes himself a free loan from employees.  Same with 401k.  After a 401k deduction is taken from your check, it is months before he deposits it into your 401k account.  I know people he owes $20,000+ between 401k and PD.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #69 on: Feb 09, 2011, 02:31 »
I know people he owes $20,000+ between 401k and PD.

So why haven't they already called US Treasury Dept.?

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #70 on: Feb 09, 2011, 02:42 »
or the local prosecutor ?  And why are these people still there ?

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #71 on: Feb 09, 2011, 06:51 »

I know people he owes $20,000+ between 401k and PD.


An employee who allows an employer to amass $20K in non-payment is a fool.
« Last Edit: Feb 09, 2011, 06:54 by Sun Dog »

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #72 on: Feb 09, 2011, 09:35 »
I could maybe let it slide for a week, but I would be on the phone looking to line up another job just in case.  No check by the next payday, and I'm outta there.  Staying and waiting for the money to show up is throwing good money after bad.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #73 on: Feb 09, 2011, 09:57 »
I could maybe let it slide for a week, but I would be on the phone looking to line up another job just in case.  No check by the next payday, and I'm outta there.  Staying and waiting for the money to show up is throwing good money after bad.

Employees need to check their standing with the IRS & SSA also because he probably is not forwarding withheld payments to them also.  Shades of the day when Jerry Donahoe bought IRM and wanted more income for himself.  Folks wanted to blame Bobby, but he didn't even own the company anymore.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #74 on: Feb 10, 2011, 11:22 »
but I think he doesn't have the money to operate his business so he takes himself a free loan from employees.  Same with 401k.  After a 401k deduction is taken from your check, it is months before he deposits it into your 401k account. 


Kinda sounds like the days of ARC back in the mid 90's

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #75 on: Feb 10, 2011, 01:18 »

Kinda sounds like the days of ARC back in the mid 90's
They were kiting checks in the late 80's.The site coordinator at VY would come around and say you,you and you ,you're check isn't going to clear the bank. Then tell you it's not his problem to straighten it out with the home office.Each week it would be something new.Glad they went bye-bye.
« Last Edit: Feb 11, 2011, 08:47 by stownsend »

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #76 on: Feb 11, 2011, 08:35 »
They were kiting checks in the late 80's.The site co-ordinator at VY would come around and say you,you and you ,you're check isn't going to clear the bank. Then tell you it's not his problem to straigten it out with the home office.Each wek it would be something new.Glad they went bye-bye.

Wasn't that fun Steve!  Only reason I worked for ARC was VY.  My favorite was when we were tossed off site for two weeks while they got the security clearance stuff cleaned up.  Dicko, Louie, and myself played a lot of racquetball those two weeks.  If I recall correctly, Leacho told ARC that we would all be paid for the time out of the plant and it would not be billable.
LM

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem - JUST SAY NO TO WEIRICH, INC.
« Reply #77 on: Feb 11, 2011, 06:23 »
Whatever you do, don't ever work for Weirich, Inc.  They have not paid anyone at SRS PD since October. Yes, they are three months behind.  Bob Weirich wants to blame it on SRNS, but I think he doesn't have the money to operate his business so he takes himself a free loan from employees.  Same with 401k.  After a 401k deduction is taken from your check, it is months before he deposits it into your 401k account.  I know people he owes $20,000+ between 401k and PD.

4 months behind on payroll?  Come on.  What a lie.  Not true.  I know for a fact they are never behind on their payroll.  Can't since the IRS would be after them for payroll taxes.  Better check your facts before telling lies especially about payroll.  Fixin2 sounds like a former employee who was fired by the lab.  When he has some employees who've been with him all along, even further back for as long as 10-15 years, they must be doing something right.  Until they lost their contract at LANL, he was the largest sub out there.  Does that sound like a company nobody wants to work for?  Fixin2 needs to stop spreading lies.

Guess if you can't say something nice, some people lie.  How do you sleep at night?

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Roadhorse is Weirich / WCSI.
« Reply #78 on: Mar 03, 2011, 12:28 »


Where does anyone say Weirich / WCSI is 4 months behind on payroll?

Fact: Weirich / WCSI is currently four months behind expense reimbursement.  October 2010 expense reimbursement was the last received. 

Fact: If there is a 401k deduction from your check this Friday, it will show up in your 401k account three or four months from now.

Since payroll was brought up, Weirich / WCSI has not been on time with that 100 percent of the time either.   

If Mr. Weirich, aka Roadhorse, wants to jump in again, we'll expand into the next topic.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #79 on: Mar 25, 2011, 05:18 »
As one of the latest musketeers caught in the cross hairs of the per diem controversy and "pass the responsibility buck" saga.. I am compelled to...!!!@#$%$#^&!!.....comment... without the assistance of council...on what I initially thought was a non issue, random audit inquiry.
 Good bye never neverland...welcome to the grown up land of...??   I find myself at a loss for words that could truly encompass this land of..Oz. aka..SRNS  aka..WSRC**.. according to the per diem eligibility certificate(s) dated  3/1/93** provided to me by  the large Canadian firm that recruited me to support ARRA.
I would be wise to stop here and save the closing for the Aiken Standard.
Your correct, two (2) issues are being argued; but with even a quick glance at the revisions made to 8/1/2008 SRNS Travel Compensation Schedule, now revision 2. it's clear the per diem questions aren't IRS based issues.
I suggest Rev.3  "Travel at your Own Risk"Compensation Schedule for work at SRS.  leastInsteadofink=topic=25524.msg137957#msg137957 date=1297078937]
You're mixing eligibility for funds with liability for the taxes on those funds.

Persons do not travel to get per diem, they get per diem because they travel and not all travelers get per diem.

We usually discuss these things via PM, and we always recommend getting good counsel from professionals, not internet forum hacks.

I have read these eligibility laws as they have pertained to my situation in the past. There was a time in my career when I trusted my employer to keep me on the best legal side of these issues, I have learned that is not their job, and most employers do not want it to be their job. Most employers cover their assets and liabilities which may or may not coincide with yours.

Back to the eligibility laws.

They are not convoluted if you take the time to read them versus projecting what you think they should read.

I would probably vote guilty, the above reasons are also probably why most persons charged with eligibility violations do all they can to settle for something before criminal trial. When you sit at a table and have the printed word in front of you and the facts in evidence these are nearly always bulletproof cases for conviction, ignorance notwithstanding.

Back to the tax liability rules.

Get a professional, in my experience the IRS is not typically as vindictive as they are made out to be for small fry such as the denizens of nukeworker.com, mostly because some nukeworkers are just tax stupid, not tax duplicitous. If in doubt, set aside enough money to cover any tax liabilities you may incur at the end of the quarter or the end of the year. Albeit, most quarterly filers are pretty sharp about tax liability and you never see them asking for help in these forums. If you know you have a problem open a dialogue with them through your tax professional, he/she will know the proper papers to file to speak on your behalf. Communicate and negotiate, it's just business.

But, above all, do not look for legal salvation here, get professional help,.....

(PS - yes I used an absolute in my post, and yes it will probably get challenged,....;-))
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Offline namlive

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #80 on: Mar 25, 2011, 01:42 »
Per Diem has become the new killer of HP techs. At one time everyone got per diem, no matter where they lived and no one cared. The utility would pay the XYZ subcontract $45.00 (an example) an hour for every senior. XYZ subcontract would pay everyone per diem because the utility paid them either way. All you had to do was to supply XYZ with an address 50 miles (as the crow flies) away from the plant. Back then you could squeeze 10 HP techs into a post office box in Delaware. If you were a junior tech, the odd thing was that you got less per diem. 

Then around 1990 something weird happen. An unnamed site co-ordinator for a major contractor rented out both the upstairs and downstairs of his house while he was not there. It makes one groggy just to think about it. He got nailed by the IRS and this contactor took the lead in taxing per diem where one didn't meet the requirements. Oh yes, rumor has it, then said individual in trouble with the IRS took a dose report of all of his fellow contractors and handed it over to the IRS making everyone at a certain outage justify their per diem.

At this point on (Jan. 1, 1990), the industry drew a line in the sand. No per diem fraud and no testable drugs, or at least that is how I understood it. The real per diem test is simple: duplicate expenses. They go through a lot of hoops with a lot of rules to make sure everyone who draws per diem has duplicate expenses. If you think you meet all the legal requirements to get per diem and don't have duplicate expenses, think again. SRS will try to get you and they will press criminal fraud charges.



No one gets out alive.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #81 on: Jul 30, 2011, 09:06 »
Savannah River Site's procurement department continues to do everything in their power to ensure only those who are either desperate or ignorant will agree to come on site as a subcontractor and play their little game. I was a little of both when I agreed to come here.

Several RCT's reported here in April and all but one are still dealing with procurement to get their per diem approved...the one that isn't having any problems is the only one who decided not to seek any per diem reimbursements. This week, three techs received word that their PD was outright denied. It took procurement 3 months to come up with that!

New rules seem to have been introduced over the summer, one of which dictates exactly what type of dwelling you can have as your home of record. Renting a house is ok as well as an apartment at an actual apartment complex...however, renting a basement apartment or carriage house won't cut it. They also are comfortable with discriminating against you based on your marital status...if you're married with duplicate expenses you're okay...single with duplicate expenses and the only one on the lease, you're okay...share an apartment with your fiance with duplicate expenses (fiance still back home), you're NOT okay.

The score so far...6 new techs...one not claiming per diem at all...3 techs denied...my PD has been placed on hold twice...and 1 tech checking his e-mail every day waiting to get word of his denial!

If you think you'd like to play this game with the dictators at SRS procurement, then come on down. Otherwise, I'd stay clear of this place!
« Last Edit: Aug 01, 2011, 10:39 by slavutich »

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #82 on: Jul 30, 2011, 09:18 »
Just say NO!

Offline Rennhack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #83 on: Jul 31, 2011, 04:06 »
Savannah River Site's procurement department continues to do everything in their power to ensure only those who are either desperate or ignorant will agree to come on site as a subcontractor and play their little game. I was both desperate & ignorant when I agreed to come here.

Several RCT's reported here in April and all but one are still dealing with procurement to get their per diem approved...the one that isn't having any problems is the only one who decided not to seek any per diem reimbursements. This week, three techs received word that their PD was outright denied. It took procurement 3 months to come up with that!

New rules seem to have been introduced over the summer, one of which dictates exactly what type of dwelling you can have as your home of record. Renting a house is ok as well as an apartment at an actual apartment complex...however, renting a basement apartment or carriage house won't cut it. They also are comfortable with discriminating against you based on your marital status...if you're married with duplicate expenses you're okay...single with duplicate expenses and the only one on the lease, you're okay...share an apartment with your fiance with duplicate expenses (fiance still back home), you're NOT okay.

The score so far...6 new techs...one not claiming per diem at all...3 techs denied...my PD has been placed on hold twice...and 1 tech checking his e-mail every day waiting to get word of his denial!

If you think you'd like to play this game with the dictators at SRS procurement, then come on down. Otherwise, I'd stay clear of this place!

Thank you for sharing.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #84 on: Jul 31, 2011, 02:11 »
Hello folks, if you don't have to come here, DON'T !!! The goal here is to not give any perdiem at all ! My heart goes out to all whom have been denied, lied to, basically cheated because of SRS management. What you do with your perdiem is your own business ! If you live 100 miles away, you have the right to receive it, regardless if you share an apartment with someone, whom ever ! It's just not fare ! How are we suppose to live ? It's clear, they(SRS) doesn't care about us or how we survive ! The procurement dept. drags the're feet on making determing who should and should not get perdiem just because SRS management wasted ARRA money on umbrellas, coolers, trailors which are un-occupied and are just sitting ! The list goes on and on and on !!!!! There is alot of work that needs to be done here, with outage season coming fast, it's going to be interesting to see when the smoke clears how many techs. will be here. What will SRS do then ???? PBOOTH

Offline let-it-ride

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #85 on: Jul 31, 2011, 08:40 »
I know people have thought of it, but has anyone gone to the local press? Has anyone gone to outside government agencies? I know that many techs will bend over and take anything for their paycheck, but there has to be a time when enough is enough. If you continue to take it and stay, well then you deserve what you get. Things will only change if techs will stand up for each other. Sorry to say, I haven't seen that happen in 24 years
« Last Edit: Jul 31, 2011, 08:44 by let-it-ride »

Offline radtech4coin

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #86 on: Jul 31, 2011, 09:52 »
Sorry to say I havent seen it in 35 years.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #87 on: Aug 01, 2011, 05:56 »
I left SRS earlier this year and has made great money. A lot of the people hired for the positions where I worked were new in the business straight off the boat and were not use to per diem, so they are going to stay no matter what. Another group hired are retirees from SRS and they are mostly locals. We can't get the power plant road techs to stand together, so why expect.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #88 on: Aug 01, 2011, 06:35 »
Savannah River Site's procurement department continues to do everything in their power to ensure only those who are either desperate or ignorant will agree to come on site as a subcontractor and play their little game. I was a little of both when I agreed to come here.

Several RCT's reported here in April and all but one are still dealing with procurement to get their per diem approved...the one that isn't having any problems is the only one who decided not to seek any per diem reimbursements. This week, three techs received word that their PD was outright denied. It took procurement 3 months to come up with that!

New rules seem to have been introduced over the summer, one of which dictates exactly what type of dwelling you can have as your home of record. Renting a house is ok as well as an apartment at an actual apartment complex...however, renting a basement apartment or carriage house won't cut it. They also are comfortable with discriminating against you based on your marital status...if you're married with duplicate expenses you're okay...single with duplicate expenses and the only one on the lease, you're okay...share an apartment with your fiance with duplicate expenses (fiance still back home), you're NOT okay.

The score so far...6 new techs...one not claiming per diem at all...3 techs denied...my PD has been placed on hold twice...and 1 tech checking his e-mail every day waiting to get word of his denial!

If you think you'd like to play this game with the dictators at SRS procurement, then come on down. Otherwise, I'd stay clear of this place!

This is shaping up just as we knew it would.  Look at the posts above.  There are people out there collecting money that isn't due them.  Guess what.  It is MY FREAKIN' MONEY that they are taking, and I expect government contractors to be diligent in paying it out (yeah, I know, you just spewed Coca-cola on your keyboard when you read that).
It ain't rocket science.  You are permitted to get a piece of my tax money if you are temporarily away from your tax home.  For that, you have to have a tax home.  A fiance (a person who is totally un-related to you, and for whom you are not legally responsible) paying rent on an apartment where you are not on the lease, well, that isn't your tax home.  Should have gotten yourself on the lease.  If you can't commit to the lease, you certainly can't claim to have a tie to that community (let alone that fiance).
Who do you blame?  Blame the person who took a job without having it in writing whether or not he was going to get perdiem.
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Offline Fluffy Bunny

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #89 on: Aug 02, 2011, 12:30 »
I left SRS earlier this year and has made great money. A lot of the people hired for the positions where I worked were new in the business straight off the boat and were not use to per diem, so they are going to stay no matter what. Another group hired are retirees from SRS and they are mostly locals. We can't get the power plant road techs to stand together, so why expect.

I has made great money too!  But I am use to per diem!
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #90 on: Aug 02, 2011, 07:52 »
This is shaping up just as we knew it would.  Look at the posts above.  There are people out there collecting money that isn't due them.  Guess what.  It is MY FREAKIN' MONEY that they are taking, and I expect government contractors to be diligent in paying it out (yeah, I know, you just spewed Coca-cola on your keyboard when you read that).
It ain't rocket science.  You are permitted to get a piece of my tax money if you are temporarily away from your tax home.  For that, you have to have a tax home.  A fiance (a person who is totally un-related to you, and for whom you are not legally responsible) paying rent on an apartment where you are not on the lease, well, that isn't your tax home.  Should have gotten yourself on the lease.  If you can't commit to the lease, you certainly can't claim to have a tie to that community (let alone that fiance).
Who do you blame?  Blame the person who took a job without having it in writing whether or not he was going to get perdiem.

**Overly dickish comment retired via self-edit** Particular to the fiance situation...this is their home which they have shared for some time prior to taking this job, both parties on the lease (as required by many landlords), where he has been paying the entire lease while she finishes school. Does this still fit in your analysis of money that "isn't due them"? Is this now an acceptable use of your "freakin' money"?

Maybe you're speaking from a similar experience where the circumstances were different and the PD wasn't deserved...but no need to reflect that on every situation. The eligibility is there, but SRS procurement won't pay out because his fiance is on the lease with him. And since everyone over the age of 18 has to be listed on the lease, she can't be removed. Now...I'd like to get back to my Coca-Cola if I may.

Edited: In retrospect, I was an overt d-bag in my response.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 02:37 by slavutich »

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #91 on: Aug 02, 2011, 09:02 »
Well, of course, if he is on the lease, that is his home.  Then, why won't they pay it?
My "assumption" in this case is that they just don't want to.

But my position is the same.  If it hadn't been for all those years of people collecting per diem while working in a town where they owned a house, collecting at the same place for 11 months a year for years on end, using a relative's address or PO box as their "home" address, ... etc., this would never have become such an issue.

Waiting for months on a per diem check is a pain that you might be willing to suffer, but working for months without knowing if you are ever going to be eligible for one is the same as saying that you accept the fact that you won't get it.

Without a written contract, you are powerless.  "They just don't want to" happens to be a valid legal reason for them to deny the per diem payments unless you have it guaranteed in writing that they have to pay it.  There is no law requiring them to pay you per diem even if you are eligible.

What can you do?  Don't work there.  That's your option.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #92 on: Aug 02, 2011, 12:07 »
Ok, Fluffy Bunny, I did not us spell check but do you get my point.  :)

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #93 on: Aug 02, 2011, 01:43 »
Well, of course, if he is on the lease, that is his home.  Then, why won't they pay it?
My "assumption" in this case is that they just don't want to.

But my position is the same.  If it hadn't been for all those years of people collecting per diem while working in a town where they owned a house, collecting at the same place for 11 months a year for years on end, using a relative's address or PO box as their "home" address, ... etc., this would never have become such an issue.

Waiting for months on a per diem check is a pain that you might be willing to suffer, but working for months without knowing if you are ever going to be eligible for one is the same as saying that you accept the fact that you won't get it.

Without a written contract, you are powerless.  "They just don't want to" happens to be a valid legal reason for them to deny the per diem payments unless you have it guaranteed in writing that they have to pay it.  There is no law requiring them to pay you per diem even if you are eligible.

What can you do?  Don't work there.  That's your option.

We think they're denying it simply because they can. There is a blurb in their travel compensation schedule that allows them to deny based on his apartment being "occupied by someone outside the employee’s immediate family"...it's unclear as to whether this really applies here given that this is his primary residence and his fiance lives with him.

The positive side to this is that our company has been paying out the per diem this whole time and are the ones taking the financial hit, although it seems wrong for procurement to take so long in this process. You're right...not working here seems to be the only option for some!

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #94 on: Aug 02, 2011, 06:45 »
Yes there are denying it because they can and some people get off by making life hard for other people ! My advice to you all is catch the first thing smoken away from that GOD forsaken place, and smile when it's in your rearview mirror ! Don't look back and when SRS calls you to come back and they will, if you're a good tech, tell them you want a new contract written that states you will receive perdiem on a weekly basis @ $110 a day, no questions asked !!! And you don't want to be harrassed about where you live or who lives with you and if SRS can do that for you, then tell them to keep it, because they will only change the rules like they did when I was there, to suit them selves. If you get your fellow techs to stand together, like it should be, SRS would leave you guys alone and give you what you want !!!! PBOOTH

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #95 on: Aug 09, 2011, 08:38 »
From the local paper:
wrdw-tv: Federal prosecutors issue stern warning to future fraud at SRS
Publication: August 5, 2011

COLUMBIA, S.C. -- U.S. Attorney Bill Nettles of the South Carolina District has some strong words for the parties at Savannah River Site who stole millions of dollars worth of stimulus money.

"Fraud of stimulus packages is something we will not tolerate, and the culture of thinking it's okay must end," he told News 12.

His team of prosecutors are keeping a sharp eye on some workers at SRS.

"This investigation has been going on for some time—both the civil and criminal component of it—and we've brought it to a conclusion for these individuals," he said.

So far, they have two convictions, and they say those two individuals have been sentenced. Another will file a plea agreement later this month, and three others are in the pretrial diversion program. They've also reached settlements out of court with two other parties.

How were they able to steal from the government?

"They claim to have a primary place of residence outside of a particular radius, and then they would incur dual living expenses in the Aiken area," said Dean Eichelberger, an Assistant U.S. Attorney.

He says the money that landed in their paychecks for living expenses was money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, more commonly known as the federal stimulus package.

"The lowest case is about $6,900. The highest case is upwards of . . . 70- and $80,000," he said.

He says even though the individual amounts weren't too astronomical, they add up to about $2,000,000.

"This is money that comes from the Federal Treasury. As soon as that amount of money passes one thousand dollars in the aggregate, it is a felony," he said.

They also say it's not just individual workers stealing from the government; companies are too. They already went after the Aiken County recruiting firm Southern Recruiters & Consultants, Inc.

"What this group was doing was they were facilitating the false statements of somebody saying, 'I got dual living expenses,' when in fact, [the employee was] living home with their parents, for example," said Assistant U.S. Attorney James Leventis.

That company settled out of court. They paid back $47,000. So far, $1,900,000 has been recovered overall.

Leventis says more cases continue to come in. They say that type of "per diem" fraud has been going on for a while, even before the stimulus package. However, they say regardless of where the money is coming from, it is an illegal act, and they will continue to prosecute.

The United States Department of Energy's Office of Inspector General has been working closely with the U.S. Attorney's Office in Columbia.

The DOE says $1.6 billion in stimulus dollars was allocated to the Savannah River Site. They also say the money saved or created 4,600 jobs.

http://www.wrdw.com/crimeteam12/headlines/Federa_126947123.html

In another article they named names and amounts, but I did not know if it was OK to post this.
« Last Edit: Aug 09, 2011, 08:43 by MrHazmat »
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #96 on: Aug 09, 2011, 06:18 »
Hazmat, thank you for that info. But what about the honest people who have done the right thing, handed over the proper documents and are on the up and up ? Why should they be made to suffer, because of a few non-conformants ? SRS knows the ones who are questionable ! Go after them and give the honest people their perdeim at a decent rate ! They shouldn't be made to be under a microscope, harrassed at every turn ! They did the right thing when asked. If this doesn't happen SRS is going to look up one day and find themselves with no techs. to cover the work that has to be done. Then what will they do ? Beg people like they did when the Obama money was awarded to them, with the stipulation that they hire some road techs. It's clear to me that SRS'S management went after road techs, sure they caught a few, but what about the money they themselves wasted on umbrellas, coolers, and gift cards for the house techs. and the trailors in several areas with no occupants ? Let's put the blame where the blame belongs ! And that's only the tip of the ice burg. Those people only did what SRS management let them do, so again who's the blame ???? PBOOTH

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #97 on: Aug 10, 2011, 09:08 »
I agree, if you come here your PD might be denied or at least be months behind IF you get it. Most Rode People will not come here unless they want to settle down and move here!!!!  I have heard stories from contractors and some have been here  6 months and still no PD AND HAVE NOT BEEN DENIED.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #98 on: Aug 24, 2011, 09:20 »
Another one!!!  Has this been going on for years and nobody ever checked??

Aiken Standard: Jackson man pleads guilty to SRS per diem fraud
Publication: 8/24/2011

A Jackson man pleaded guilty in federal court Tuesday and awaits sentencing for submitting fraudulent per diem expense claims to the Department of Energy at the Savannah River Site.

Name removed, 56, who was temporarily employed at SRS, pleaded guilty to receiving per diem payments totaling nearly $26,000 on false claims that he was incurring dual living expenses when he was not, according to the U.S. Attorney's office.

Name removed claimed in forms submitted to DOE that he had a primary place of residence in Medford, Mass., and was also renting a house in the Jackson area during his temporary employment.

The investigation showed that Name removed owned the Jackson home and that other people were living in the Massachusetts home, according to the U.S. Attorney's office.

Because of this, Name removed was not incurring any dual living expenses and did not qualify to receive the per diem payments, some of which were funds provided through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

Name removed has not yet been sentenced, but the maximum penalty that he can receive is a fine of $250,000 and/or imprisonment for 10 years, according to the U.S. Attorney's office. The U.S. Attorney's office has been investigating criminal and civil schemes by contractors that have so far resulted in five criminal convictions and the payment of $1.9 million, with more than $700,000 being ARRA money since 2009, according to assistant U.S. attorney James Leventis.

Name removed case was investigated by agents of DOE's Office of Inspector General and handled by assistant U.S. Attorney's Dean Eichelberger
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #99 on: Sep 09, 2011, 11:13 »
It's unfortunate that this cat, name removed did this because he like a few others have made it hard on those of us who are honest and did the right thing and handed in the correct documents. That should not in no way affect the rest of us, we did the right thing, leave us alone, we're just trying to make an honest living and support our families.The day is coming when SRS won't have anybody and can't get anybody because they change the rules to suite themselves, and all this perdeim fraud going on, SRNS also wasted a nice chunk of change on the office trailors, which are mostly un-occupied, and various trinkets for the house techs. When SRNS penalizes the people for perdiem fraud, they should penalize themselves for wasting money on the above mentioned items. If they are gonna tell it, tell it all ! Umbrellas, coolers, carharts,instumentation that was old and half worn-out with ARRA stickers on them when the ARRA money had been awarded for new instumentation, but they won't talk about that,WILL THEY ???  pbooth

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #100 on: Sep 10, 2011, 03:44 »
Can someone some up the problem, I don't see it here.  If you maintain another residence you are either on a deed or a lease.  The company will ask for proof of your other residence.  If you provide it with legitimate documents, they should pay.  If you do not have another residence, you are not entitled.  If you provide it and they refuse to pay you, leave.   Is this so hard to understand or follow?

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #101 on: Sep 10, 2011, 11:19 »
To sum up the problem...The problem just isn't as black & white as the case you've laid out.

Those who have provided the proper documentation have had to jump through additional hoops to satisfy the powerful (SRNS procurement). The per diem regs provide too much gray area which allows procurement to decide against those with proper documentation for no obvious reason.

Your solution is neither too hard to follow nor hard to understand, and is simply a repeat of what has been mentioned here several times already. In the past two weeks, three contractors have left for other contracts and two more are leaving at the end of this coming week. Others are looking for their ticket out of here and I wish them the best of luck! This is just within our office, so I can only assume that it's happening all over the site.

I think pbooth's main issue is the hypocrisy in blatantly wasting untold $$$ on 'flare' while harassing contractors over per diem just to save a few bucks.

More than just a venue to vent about these policies, this thread serves to warn those who are considering a contract here. Know what to expect!

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #102 on: Sep 10, 2011, 11:50 »
.....More than just a venue to vent about these policies, this thread serves to warn those who are considering a contract here. Know what to expect!

That succinct statement should pretty much lock this thread up, nice "executive summary".

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #103 on: Sep 10, 2011, 02:58 »
It's a shame things have to be like THAT down there isn't it ? There are alot of really nice people down  there ! Folks stay away from SRNS, if you can help it ! SEE YOU ON THE ROAD, SOMEWHERE !!!! LATER pbooth. BEWARE OF COMPANIES LIKE VAS. My tip of the Day for you Guys !!!!

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #104 on: Sep 10, 2011, 10:34 »
pbooth, you are talking 2 different subjects. You can be correct about the company waste. But it is different from the employee theft.
Sad to say it goes on at other places too. (Farley is one place where I saw it first hand)

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #105 on: Sep 11, 2011, 11:43 »
You are correct, I got caught up in my frustration. I just hate the fact the honest people get caught up with the not-so-honest. But I can say this and I'll stop beating a dead horse, the time and day is coming when SRNS will need a few good techs again and when they can't staff, they will be begging hard ! The two issues should be kept separate. Thanks for correcting me in my frustration. pbooth 8)

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #106 on: Sep 11, 2011, 12:57 »
the time and day is coming when SRNS will need a few good techs again and when they can't staff, they will be begging hard !

H1B visas, 6 to a rented mobile home. Call it a educational work program  and use J-1 visas like Hershey's Chocolate did. The global-socialist ringclinkers that own the big bodyshops have no fear, and few restrictions.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #107 on: Sep 12, 2011, 08:35 »
Don't forget the trucks.  Nice white Ford F-150 4 door trucks.  17000 miles and the front tires were already worn out on one side or the other.  And i've heard they have been replaced before the money went dry. :-X

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #108 on: Sep 12, 2011, 08:37 »
Then there was the house techs getting guaranteed overtime Friday and Saturday with ARRA money.

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #109 on: Sep 12, 2011, 08:58 »
Yes Yes ! Im sure the list goes on and on !  All that and they won't give us what we deserve ! I wish there was something that could be done, but at this point, I don't know !!!Try to stay away from that place, it will do you wrong !! pbooth

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #110 on: Sep 12, 2011, 09:09 »
Don't forget the trucks.  Nice white Ford F-150 4 door trucks.  17000 miles and the front tires were already worn out on one side or the other.  And i've heard they have been replaced before the money went dry. :-X

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« Last Edit: Sep 12, 2011, 09:10 by GLW »

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Offline MrHazmat

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #111 on: Mar 12, 2012, 10:56 »
Another one...

Aiken Standard: Ex-DOE contractor charged with theft of gov’t funds
Publication: 3/8/12

A former Department of Energy contractor at the Savannah River Site was charged this week in a four-count federal indictment with theft of government funds and making false statements to government officials.

Gregory Richey, 41, of Hempstead, N.C., allegedly claimed eligibility for per diem benefits that he received through a program funded by DOE, according to a U.S. Attorney’s Office press release. If convicted, the maximum penalty Richey could receive is up to 10 years in prison.

Richey’s charges follow a number of other federal indictments in the past year or so of other DOE contract employees who have submitted false per diem claims.

In the past year, the U.S. Attorney’s Office worked with DOE’s Office of Investigations to uncover schemes by various employees who submitted fraudulent claims. The investigations resulted in three criminal convictions and three cases in which the defendants entered into the federal pretrial diversion program.

The investigations also resulted in the recovery of more than $1 million in restitution and penalties, of which more than $700,000 was money funded through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act.

The South Carolina investigations resulted in the first criminal conviction and first civil settlements related to fraudulently obtained ARRA funds in the nation, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office. It is unclear if the allegedly fraudulent per diem benefits that Richey claimed were provided through ARRA funding.
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #112 on: Mar 14, 2012, 12:47 »
. . . they won't give us what we deserve !

I'm not entirely sure I would ever want what I deserved.

Offline Dave Warren

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #113 on: Mar 14, 2012, 05:18 »
So, like, I have a gentleman who needs the contact information for the Savannah River dosimetry records office.

Anyone have that within arms reach? Appreciate your help.

Offline Rennhack

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #114 on: Mar 14, 2012, 08:22 »
So, like, I have a gentleman who needs the contact information for the Savannah River dosimetry records office.

Anyone have that within arms reach? Appreciate your help.

https://www.reirs.com/dosehist.cfm

Offline MrHazmat

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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #115 on: Mar 15, 2012, 06:55 »
So, like, I have a gentleman who needs the contact information for the Savannah River dosimetry records office.



Anyone have that within arms reach? Appreciate your help.

Try one of these.


Record Retrieval Requests
 Michelle Capers
 803-725-8797
 
Rebecca Carter
 803-725-1407
 
Wanda Redd
803-725-4929
 
Or Email to
 RECORDS REQUEST/SRNS/Srs,
 
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Re: Savannah River Site Per Diem
« Reply #116 on: Mar 15, 2012, 10:16 »
Thanks guys. That helps tremendously, as always.

 


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