Rapid Advancement

[mizzyung]

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I've been on so forgive me if I'm repeating anything.

Here's the story, My husband (of 4 years) is a nuke ET and just recently made E-6. The issue is, He's got A NAM, An Admirals Letter, A few recognitions, then made E-6, but this was all before his 5 year point in the Navy as well as before his first Sea Command. I know this is all well and good and I am beyond proud of him, but i've learned with the Navy, for everything good, there is always a negative side. So what I'm really wanting to know is, what negatives am I most likely going to be facing with his rapid acceleration in his career this quickly?

Any Insight on hours, work load...etc..Just trying to prepare myself to be the super supportive wife in this next leg of his Navy career so that I can assure him "he's got this" when times seem grim.

Thank You in advance to all who respond.

[Fermi2]

Where exactly has he rapidly advanced? I had all those at a much earlier time in my career. I don't see anything that is rapid.

None of it matters if he turns out to be useless at Sea and I don't see much in what you posted that makes his achievements all that remarkable.

[mizzyung]

Okay I don't know when you were in, but he was rather rare going through in his group and it's been a rather big deal since he's gotten to his boat...and kudos to you on you and your achievements but 1) if that's how you feel, there was no reason for you to respond to this post, and 2) he and I went through at the same time so I'm no dummy to the system and I know just how important it is or is not so feel free to kindly keep the negative to yourself if you aren't going to asset the question at hand.

[Fermi2]

Not being negative, you have every right to be proud of your husband. I hope I never implied otherwise. Just saying none of that is really advancement and lots of guys are E 6 before their 5 year point. Hell I was at 3 years 6 months and I was one of the few who made E-5 legitimately.

The Fleet is always the final judge.

[andrewnavy]

Going to have to agree with BZ on this one. I have known a lot of guys who made E6 at or before 5 years. I think I made it in 5.5 years with pretty much the same awards mentioned.  Your husbands responsibilities will be up to him. If he decides not to play ball on his boat then he will probably get hooked up and go home early because no one will want him around.  If he is good he will work a lot and they will treat him as if the boat cannot run without him.  That means he will work long days along with duty and probably denied leave often due to "important" work.  I am not saying your husband is not the greatest thing since sliced bread but  it totally depends on him for what work load he decides to take on or walk away from.

[mizzyung]

Thanks everyone...it wasn't so much as him making E-6 in the amount of time, but the criticism was comig from him being a first class NUB bc he was a SPU and he's only 22 years old. There was a big issue with him not being medically cleared correctly and everyone from the DIVO to the CO were calling bc they already had a lot of expectations for him. Another question is as far as quals go, I know most people have I believe 2 years for both ships and regular que but he's expected to do it within 6 or 7 months completely. This being said I'm pretty sure long hours are expected and I'm used to that (even on sure duty I didn't see him my entire 8th month of pregnancy) but how realistic is him finishing all they are asking in the time frame they've given?

[mizzyung]

Sorry for all the grammar, my iPhone chooses to correct abbreviations on it's own

[JustinHEMI05]

Thanks everyone...it wasn't so much as him making E-6 in the amount of time, but the criticism was comig from him being a first class NUB bc he was a SPU and he's only 22 years old. There was a big issue with him not being medically cleared correctly and everyone from the DIVO to the CO were calling bc they already had a lot of expectations for him. Another question is as far as quals go, I know most people have I believe 2 years for both ships and regular que but he's expected to do it within 6 or 7 months completely. This being said I'm pretty sure long hours are expected and I'm used to that (even on sure duty I didn't see him my entire 8th month of pregnancy) but how realistic is him finishing all they are asking in the time frame they've given?

Yes, he is a first class nub and he will have to live with the stigma that comes with being a SPU, on the ship. Until he proves himself, he is going to take criticism, that is the nature of the beast. That is one downfall of being spu. The other is the fact that per the regs, a "sea returnee," IE someone that has been qualified before on another ship, only has 6 months to requalify on the new ship. SPUs, although never having been to sea, fall into this expectation because they were, in fact, qualified operators. If he can't get his quals done in 6 months, he had no business ever being a SPU, because it is quite possible to requalify what he needs within 6 months. If he doesn't, he will get a lot of attention.

Those with more current data can correct what I have wrong, but that is based on what I remember of the EDM.

Word of advice though, being a first class nub, make sure he shows up to his boat with a humble attitude. Show them through actions that he is capable, and not words like "I was a spu so I am awesome." This is based off my experience of a 1st class spu nub showing up on my boat with the "I am better than you because I was a SPU" attitude. His quals did not go easy, and when it finally came to showing how awesome he thought he was during drills, he failed. The fleet is not prototype and although being a SPU is to be regarded as an achievement, it doesn't put him ahead or above the people that have cut their teeth at sea. He should keep that in mind.

[Gamecock]

Thanks everyone...it wasn't so much as him making E-6 in the amount of time, but the criticism was comig from him being a first class NUB bc he was a SPU and he's only 22 years old. There was a big issue with him not being medically cleared correctly and everyone from the DIVO to the CO were calling bc they already had a lot of expectations for him. Another question is as far as quals go, I know most people have I believe 2 years for both ships and regular que but he's expected to do it within 6 or 7 months completely. This being said I'm pretty sure long hours are expected and I'm used to that (even on sure duty I didn't see him my entire 8th month of pregnancy) but how realistic is him finishing all they are asking in the time frame they've given?

The time it takes to qualify will vary based on operating schedule.  Is he on a fast boat or trident? The differences between his current boat and the prototype will also cause some growing pains (Trident more so then Fast attack).  Is he going on deployment or what.  You need underway time to qualify, so unless he's deploying, I don't think he'll be fully qualified in 6 to 7 months (for the record, if I were ENG/XO/CO, I wouldn't expect him to be able to in that compressed a timeline). 

Per the instruction, he needs to be qualified RO within one year and SRO within 18 months.

Cheers,
GC

[mizzyung]

yes, he was cleared and he is on a boomer. It's a manning issue that is causing the need to push through so fast. I don't want him to overly stress himself out because of an unrealistic timeline seeing as how he's one of those where if he's given a deadline and can't meet it, he beats himself up over it and feels like a "sorry sailor". The more I can understand, the more i can reassure him to calm down because it's okay.

[mizzyung]

Word of advice though, being a first class nub, make sure he shows up to his boat with a humble attitude. Show them through actions that he is capable, and not words like "I was a spu so I am awesome." This is based off my experience of a 1st class spu nub showing up on my boat with the "I am better than you because I was a SPU" attitude. His quals did not go easy, and when it finally came to showing how awesome he thought he was during drills, he failed. The fleet is not prototype and although being a SPU is to be regarded as an achievement, it doesn't put him ahead or above the people that have cut their teeth at sea. He should keep that in mind.

Yes, he is rather humble. He's one who believe rank does not mean you know or can do your job better than anybody else so he never lets that go to his head because there is always going to be someone higher than you. Most don't even believe he is a nuke.

[mizzyung]

The other is the fact that per the regs, a "sea returnee," IE someone that has been qualified before on another ship, only has 6 months to requalify on the new ship. SPUs, although never having been to sea, fall into this expectation because they were, in fact, qualified operators. If he can't get his quals done in 6 months, he had no business ever being a SPU, because it is quite possible to requalify what he needs within 6 months. If he doesn't, he will get a lot of attention.

Yeah, the hardest part about that is the systems in prototype are so old and out of date that when they get to the boat, they have to learn a completely different system which sucks because of that timeline but i'm sure he'll have no problem with it. he'll be more upset if he doesn't finish early rather than finishing on time.

[JustinHEMI05]

Yeah, the hardest part about that is the systems in prototype are so old and out of date that when they get to the boat, they have to learn a completely different system which sucks because of that timeline but i'm sure he'll have no problem with it. he'll be more upset if he doesn't finish early rather than finishing on time.

No. The "older systems" excuse doesn't fly. Main steam is main steam, feed water is feed water and fission is fission. Although some different configurations exist, they are all still basically the same... made of pumps, valves and pipes. The base knowledge is there, which is why they are given 6 months to get it done. That 6 months is really just a familiarization of the new configuration of those systems.

[mizzyung]

Thanks guys...your input is much appreciated. Helping me understand more and easier to ensure him to relax when he starts to stress because it's easier to talk when I actually know what's going on. Not too mention, it's usually because he's complicating things more than necessary so I will probably be quoting some of you guys to say this is what it is and you're looking way too much into it unnecessarily.

[JustinHEMI05]

Why doesn't he post?

[andrewnavy]

Miss,

In my experience, it does not matter how a SPU is when he gets to the boat.  If he is arrogant or something like that, as long as he has something to back it up then he should be fine.  He will only have about 6 months to qualify but depending on the command, significant amounts of his cards will probably be deleted.  This is especially true as an EM.  SPU's operate an electric more than any first or second term sea sailor has.  They get that experience through multiple s/u's, s/d's, and drills.  A boat kind of stays static as compared to prototype.  If he is worth his salt he will be fine.  The two SPUs that showed up to my boat got crap in the beginning but soon proved to be worth there weight in gold which is probably why both of them got out and went commercial a few years ago.  The point is that he controls how he is perceived once he gets to the boat and breaks the ice with his department.  Good luck to you and get into a support group.  Oh, be cautious with the wives club thing, that could be a group you do not want to be a part of. 

Andy 

[tselby]

yes, he was cleared and he is on a boomer. It's a manning issue that is causing the need to push through so fast. I don't want him to overly stress himself out because of an unrealistic timeline seeing as how he's one of those where if he's given a deadline and can't meet it, he beats himself up over it and feels like a "sorry sailor". The more I can understand, the more i can reassure him to calm down because it's okay.

If I read you right, he is stationed on a Trident, that being said they complete a ~~ 115day schedule that rotates of which 80-90 may be at sea time. Of that at sea time a majority of it will be On station, meaning the boat can only do certain evolutions. This as I remember from my 640class days can limit the rate at which one qualifies. That does not excuse him from meeting his deadlines for his quals. Just makes it tougher thats all. He must show personal involvement and desire to qualify often for going some personal time or sleep time to get that extra signature or be up to run that extra drill / evolution and get that signature.

I say this because very little to no qualifications take place when he is in off crew and not stationed on the boat.

I always found it easier to qualify on fast attack because the extended sea time allows you the time to get those signature you may not get in off crew on a trident. Although I do envy the set schedule of trident.

I hope this helps in some way.

If your husband has any questions of his own he should be in here asking. there are many ex navy men and women in here who can provide sound advice.

R/

MMC/SS (retired)

[tselby]

In my experience, it does not matter how a SPU is when he gets to the boat.  If he is arrogant or something like that, as long as he has something to back it up then he should be fine.  He will only have about 6 months to qualify but depending on the command, significant amounts of his cards will probably be deleted.  This is especially true as an EM.  SPU's operate an electric more than any first or second term sea sailor has.  They get that experience through multiple s/u's, s/d's, and drills.  A boat kind of stays static as compared to prototype.  If he is worth his salt he will be fine.  The two SPUs that showed up to my boat got crap in the beginning but soon proved to be worth there weight in gold which is probably why both of them got out and went commercial a few years ago.  The point is that he controls how he is perceived once he gets to the boat and breaks the ice with his department.  Good luck to you and get into a support group.  Oh, be cautious with the wives club thing, that could be a group you do not want to be a part of.  

Andy  

I tend to differ on this,,,, arrogance is not the way to be. this will set him back and will probably make his quals tougher, you can not show up to a boat with the I AM BETTER THAN YOU ATTITUDE / ARROGANCE. you will be snuffed immediately......... I know I saw this as both a leading first class, LPO, and Chief within my own division. If he has a good leading first and Chief, they will notice this attitude and take him aside and correct it before it becomes a detriment to his life on board.

R/
MMC/SS

If you have any questions you can message me directly

[mizzyung]

Why doesn't he post?

Definitely not his thing! He usually just vents and i provide the good old pep-talk to keep him motivated so i just like to actually make sense and seem like I know what i'm talking about

In my experience, it does not matter how a SPU is when he gets to the boat.  If he is arrogant or something like that, as long as he has something to back it up then he should be fine.  He will only have about 6 months to qualify but depending on the command, significant amounts of his cards will probably be deleted.  This is especially true as an EM.  SPU's operate an electric more than any first or second term sea sailor has.  They get that experience through multiple s/u's, s/d's, and drills.  A boat kind of stays static as compared to prototype.  If he is worth his salt he will be fine.  The two SPUs that showed up to my boat got crap in the beginning but soon proved to be worth there weight in gold which is probably why both of them got out and went commercial a few years ago.  The point is that he controls how he is perceived once he gets to the boat and breaks the ice with his department.  Good luck to you and get into a support group.  Oh, be cautious with the wives club thing, that could be a group you do not want to be a part of. 

Andy 

Arrogance is not something I worry about because he's a firm believer in just because someone holds rank does not automatically mean they are better at their job than anyone else and is always willing to help someone who is looking for it whenever he can. He is an ET. I know just what you mean about the wives thing which is why i usually join the parenting groups bc there's less focus on the boat's happening and more on the children which avoids all the drama. Thanks

If I read you right, he is stationed on a Trident, that being said they complete a ~~ 115day schedule that rotates of which 80-90 may be at sea time. Of that at sea time a majority of it will be On station, meaning the boat can only do certain evolutions. This as I remember from my 640class days can limit the rate at which one qualifies. That does not excuse him from meeting his deadlines for his quals. Just makes it tougher thats all. He must show personal involvement and desire to qualify often for going some personal time or sleep time to get that extra signature or be up to run that extra drill / evolution and get that signature.

I say this because very little to no qualifications take place when he is in off crew and not stationed on the boat.

I always found it easier to qualify on fast attack because the extended sea time allows you the time to get those signature you may not get in off crew on a trident. Although I do envy the set schedule of trident.

That's what I have been told a few times which sucks because he had NO TIME to adjust to the boat or the ins and outs of things on it, but the schedule is worth it, especially with the kids.

[Gamecock]

I say this because very little to no qualifications take place when he is in off crew and not stationed on the boat.

This is not true anymore, since we now have IDE's in all fleet concentration areas. 

[mizzyung]

This is not true anymore, since we now have IDE's in all fleet concentration areas. 

That's good because I know this was one of his biggest concerns...thank you

[DLGN25]

His real challenge is not the plant, he will do just fine.  As well as he will in adjusting to the boat's routines and expectations.  

The one area that would concern me were I he, is if he is given the LPO assignment.  For a just recently promoted E-6, he probably has had no divisional leadership responsibility.  All to often, a good engineer does not make a good LPO.  This is especially true for a guy with no sea time.  For his sake, I hope he has time to grow into an LPO slot.

As far a qualifying goes, other then operational considerations, I knew a couple of guys who qualified as RO's on S3G at prototype, then D2G, and then A1W, all in a four and half year period.  The time to qualify was 4-6 months.  When you think about it, you could not find a more wildly different engineering environment then these three configurations.  Oh, back in the day, SRO was a part of RO qualification, at least it was on my ship.  SRO was a terrible watch, 8 hours of total boredom.  The graveyard shift was the worse, just you, an MM somewhere in the engine room, and a roving EM you never saw.

Anyway, do not worry, he will do well.  The real challenge is yours and how well you handle his sea time.

Good luck to the both of you.

Oh, no matter what is said, E-6 in four is something to be proud about.

[mizzyung]

His real challenge is not the plant, he will do just fine.  As well as he will in adjusting to the boat's routines and expectations.  

The one area that would concern me were I he, is if he is given the LPO assignment.  For a just recently promoted E-6, he probably has had no divisional leadership responsibility.  All to often, a good engineer does not make a good LPO.  This is especially true for a guy with no sea time.  For his sake, I hope he has time to grow into an LPO slot.

Anyway, do not worry, he will do well.  The real challenge is yours and how well you handle his sea time.

Good luck to the both of you.

Oh, no matter what is said, E-6 in four is something to be proud about.

He seems to be adjusting to the boat fine, nothing you wouldn't expect.

The divisional leadership issue sucks because while he handled the LPO duties at prototype, manning on the boat has brought his recent promotion into the light and not being well received by division members with more time on the boat. Especially because of his age and lack of time in the Navy even though he is very good at his job. This is only the case because he hates something being done wrong and having to waste more time to do it over again to fix it.

No worries for me. It's easier for me to understand than most wives being prior Navy myself, not to mention having two toddlers to keep me busy, time just seems to fly by. Not to mention this great forum to answer all my questions!

I thank you much...i don't care what anyone says coming from the ghettos of Compton and being a nuke is amazing enough so i'm going to praise him for all his achievements 10x over because he could've just been dead or in jail but instead decided to make something of himself and is doing a damn good job at it.

[DLGN25]

The divisional leadership issue sucks because while he handled the LPO duties at prototype, manning on the boat has brought his recent promotion into the light and not being well received by division members with more time on the boat. Especially because of his age and lack of time in the Navy even though he is very good at his job. This is only the case because he hates something being done wrong and having to waste more time to do it over again to fix it.

I left the USS Bainbridge after two years and went to the conventional fleet as an E-5 assigned to OE division. (I turned down instructor duty in Idaho)  A couple of months later I sewed on the first class crow and suddenly become the LPO.  There was a lot of resentment from the 15 or so communications and radar trained ET's having a nuke in charge.  The challenge I faced was to change not just their attitude toward me (after all I knew little about radar, and nothing about radios and EW equipment), but to get them to be more professional, "Nuke like" as they put it.  It took nine months to turn things around. 

While a few still disliked me, they all did what was expected. 

Right now, I see your husband going through the same challenge to leadership I went through so long ago.  Hopefully he has the support of his chief and division officer.  I also believe he will discover his association with non-nuke E-6's will be beneficial to his becoming a great LPO.

As we all have seen, it takes time for most to adjust to changes in leadership.  I believe once your husband is fully qualified on the plant, he will find being the LPO to be a lot less stressful. 

[mizzyung]

 
Right now, I see your husband going through the same challenge to leadership I went through so long ago.  Hopefully he has the support of his chief and division officer.  I also believe he will discover his association with non-nuke E-6's will be beneficial to his becoming a great LPO.

Yeah, being a completely new guy isn't helping much either, no sea time, no time prior to deployment on the boat, no fish. It's just an upward battle but I have no doubts that he will be fine. Can't seem to make out whether his DIVO really likes him or really hates him but it's one or the other. Non Nuke E-6s are just his cup of tea, not too many Nukes he can relate to.

[andrewnavy]

In my experience, DIVOs are worthless until proven otherwise and rarely do they complete that task.  Also, they change around rather quickly.  Just tell your husband to get his fish asap so he looks no different than anyone else.  The DIVOs can be good but they are not really necessary in my experience.  Your husband will be fine but I think from what you said about him, he might  be served by growing some teeth.  Him being best friends with the cones is not going to help him back aft.

Good luck,
Andy

[Cycoticpenguin]

Yeah, being a completely new guy isn't helping much either, no sea time, no time prior to deployment on the boat, no fish. It's just an upward battle but I have no doubts that he will be fine. Can't seem to make out whether his DIVO really likes him or really hates him but it's one or the other. Non Nuke E-6s are just his cup of tea, not too many Nukes he can relate to.

Well he better learn to "relate" to his peers, coworkers, companions at sea, brothers, and caretakers (oh, that's all the same person by the way) or they can make his life hell. Surface nukes are ruthless at best, I can only imagine the sub mentality. Lastly, not sure how it works on subs, but on carriers, divo's (At least the fresher ones) are pretty much there to take oxygen and convert it carbon dioxide. Not knocking them, some develop into fine Watch Officers, but they are truly some of the most inconsequential persons to a nuke. As long as he has a good cheif backing him up, he should do well.

[mizzyung]

Although he doesn't relate well to others in his field, he usually earns their respect through his work abilities, but he just hasn't had the time on the boat to prove himself so they are all still stand-offish. hopefully they will warm up soon.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Although he doesn't relate well to others in his field, he usually earns their respect through his work abilities, but he just hasn't had the time on the boat to prove himself so they are all still stand-offish. hopefully they will warm up soon.

Tough. Hes a first class, not just an "e-6". He needs to come ready to lead and ready to acclimate with his peers and those "below" him. How can he expect to be a good example and leader when he wont even spend time with "his own" Its not high school where he can pick and choose his cliques. he needs to hit the ground running and be ready to be an LPO at sea.

[mizzyung]

It's hard to get to know people who don't want to know you because of sour grapes...it'll be easier to relate once they warm up to him.

[Cycoticpenguin]

It's hard to get to know people who don't want to know you because of sour grapes...it'll be easier to relate once they warm up to him.

you dont understand... it doesnt work like that. Its not their job to warm up to him, its his job to make a good impression and be personable to the right people. If its Joe P. Nub, whatever, but he definitely needs to get buddy buddy with his fellow first classes.  Out to sea, there is no "Warming up" period. There is no "Try outs" or what have yous, he needs to be effective right now, day one.

Im going to anticipate the "You just dont understand response" and I will pre counter with "He'll figure it out one way or the other".


Nukes eat their own. I can only imagine how much more true that is on a submarine...

[mizzyung]

you dont understand... it doesnt work like that. Its not their job to warm up to him, its his job to make a good impression and be personable to the right people. If its Joe P. Nub, whatever, but he definitely needs to get buddy buddy with his fellow first classes.  Out to sea, there is no "Warming up" period. There is no "Try outs" or what have yous, he needs to be effective right now, day one.

Im going to anticipate the "You just dont understand response" and I will pre counter with "He'll figure it out one way or the other".


Nukes eat their own. I can only imagine how much more true that is on a submarine...

I was meaning just that...once he gets to prove himself as not being a waste of oxygen because no one wants to work UNDER someone who is a waste of space, unqualified, no sea time, with less than 5 days off crew time on the boat.

[Cycoticpenguin]

I was meaning just that...once he gets to prove himself as not being a waste of oxygen because no one wants to work UNDER someone who is a waste of space, unqualified, no sea time, with less than 5 days off crew time on the boat.

You can only make one first impression is the problem.