Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake

[Matthew B]

I'm thinking the same thing about the multiple units.  This is still speculation, but it would appear that unit 2 was doing well until it was rained on by chunks of the reactor building of unit 3.  There are visible large chunks of the building flying in the video of the unit 3 explosion.  We all know that the design basis doesn't include multi-ton concrete chunks falling from hundreds of feet in the air.

[G-reg]

From the Nuclear Energy Institute, regarding the Unit 4 Spent Fuel Pool fire:
"At Unit 4 on March 14 at approximately 8:38 p.m. EDT, a fire was reported in the reactor building. It is believed to have been from a lube oil leak in a system that drives recirculation water pumps. Fire fighting efforts extinguished the fire. The roof of the reactor building was damaged."

Ideally (coming from the NEI and alluding to the Japan Atomic Energy Agency) this is somewhat credible...

http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/

[BWB519]

To the experts...what system lines up to remove heat from the fuel pool? And, if those pumps are not functional, how long can spent fuel site with our residual heat removal pumps? I have wondered about the fuel pools because of their close proximity to the explosion area.

There is normally a dedicated system that would cool the fuel pool.  Oddly enough called Fuel Pool Cooling System.  Basically, this system would recirculate water from the spent fuel pool through heat exchangers, cooled by a closed cooling water system, and demineralizers.  Without power, this system would not be functional.  The amount of time that the fuel pool could go without cooling is tough to say.  It would be a function of how large the fuel pool is, the level and temperature of the water prior to losing cooling, and the amount of spent fuel, and its age, in the pool.

[hamsamich]

There is a fuel pool cooling system but keeping the fuel covered with water should be good enough for this situation - boiling action will remove the heat as long as water can be added.  "Time to boil" is sometimes how this is measured.  The amount of heat in the fuel pool will depend mostly on how much old fuel is in there and how long it has been out of the reactor.  Who knows how much electric power they have and what kind of cooling capability the FPCS has at this point.  There are temporary decay heat removal systems used at some plants but who knows if they have that operable or close by or at all.

[tymitsub]

I usually read and dont post but I am curious if the math is right on this the news is reporting 400 milisiverts/HR as the radiation levels so I did the math and I get 40,000mRem or 40Rem...Way worse than TMI ever saw

[JustinHEMI05]

Well the report I posted above has rad levels at 500 MICRO-sieverts/hr at the boundary, which is 50 mrem/hr. If 500 MILLI-sieverts is correct, then you are correct.

[JustinHEMI05]

Oh, and here is a handy little calculator for anyone tracking dose, that isn't as familiar with the units they are using... like me.

http://www.convertworld.com/en/equivalent-dose/Microsievert.html

[hamsamich]

supposedly the radiation level was 40 Rem/hr between unit 3 and 4 probably due to uncovered fuel from the unit 4 fuel pool.  Not sure about this, especially the source, might be Unit 3 reactor but why unit 3 would have higher levels not sure.  I would bet it was coming from the dry fuel pool...Other possiblity is the pressure decrease and all the spewed crap that came out of the unit 2 damaged suppression pool.  my bet is U4 fuel pool.

I've also hear 821 mrem/hr max at a site boundary level.  I think this is lower now.  I wish the sources of radiation were more clear.

[Xenon_Free]

I have been struggling to imagine the working conditions these brave heroes are enduring.  There is no ventilation, little to absolutely no lighting (flashlights), no elevators, no cranes, no electric tools.  It is hot, dark and in some places possibly lethal doses with limited ways to monitor.  Yet the heroes persevere, battling to keep their fellow countrymen as safe as possible - sacrificing their own health to do so.  I am not being dramatic, I am being honest.  I had to say it.

XF

[JustinHEMI05]

I have been struggling to imagine the working conditions these brave heroes are enduring.  There is no ventilation, little to absolutely no lighting (flashlights), no elevators, no cranes, no electric tools.  It is hot, dark and in some places possibly lethal doses with limited ways to monitor.  Yet the heroes persevere, battling to keep their fellow countrymen as safe as possible - sacrificing their own health to do so.  I am not being dramatic, I am being honest.  I had to say it.

XF

Well said. My thoughts are constantly with them.

Justin

[PJMcG]

I have been struggling to imagine the working conditions these brave heroes are enduring.  There is no ventilation, little to absolutely no lighting (flashlights), no elevators, no cranes, no electric tools.  It is hot, dark and in some places possibly lethal doses with limited ways to monitor.  Yet the heroes persevere, battling to keep their fellow countrymen as safe as possible - sacrificing their own health to do so.  I am not being dramatic, I am being honest.  I had to say it.

XF

Absolutely true!  Unsung heroes.  I hope that they know, that we know, because the press isn't mentioning it.

[tymitsub]

That is true the press is just stirring panic to sell papers and get ratings for their news shows but I have not heard any stories of the people that are doing there best to make a difference who are probably worried about there own families yet are still at the plant doing there best at there job.

[gravy58]

Is is true that Shaw is paying $100 bucks an hour, $500 a day and $7000 in and out, tax free for RP Techs.?

[G-reg]

Is is true that Shaw is paying $100 bucks an hour, $500 a day and $7000 in and out, tax free for RP Techs.?

There is a separate thread for that discussion.
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,27026.0.html

[Cycoticpenguin]

Can someone explain why they are being so enigmatic about the situation? I understand they are having serious issues, but why cant they explain what they think is going instead of these vague "RCIC isnt working" statements???

[Touche]

I have been struggling to imagine the working conditions these brave heroes are enduring.  There is no ventilation, little to absolutely no lighting (flashlights), no elevators, no cranes, no electric tools.  It is hot, dark and in some places possibly lethal doses with limited ways to monitor.  Yet the heroes persevere, battling to keep their fellow countrymen as safe as possible - sacrificing their own health to do so.  I am not being dramatic, I am being honest.  I had to say it.

XF

Thanks for saying it...I have been discussing this very issue at work.

[JustinHEMI05]

Can someone explain why they are being so enigmatic about the situation? I understand they are having serious issues, but why cant they explain what they think is going instead of these vague "RCIC isnt working" statements???

They have more important things to do than teach a nub systems.

[Pman52]

They have more important things to do than teach a nub systems.

How else will we learn?! 

[spentfuel]

also from NEI

At approximately 6:00 today, an abnormal noise began emanating from nearby the pressure suppression chamber of Fukushima Daiichi Power Station. Given that the pressure within this chamber had decreased, it was believed that this was an indication that an abnormality had arisen. From this point on, while water injection operations are still underway, the temporary transfer to a safe place of TEPCO employees and workers from other companies not directly involved with this work has begun.
Currently, at Fukushima Dai-ichi Power Station, the remaining workers are doing their best to secure the safety and security of the site.
The parameters for Unit 2’s nuclear containment vessel and the containment vessel show no significant change.
We are aware of and sincerely apologize for the great distress and inconvenience this incident has caused to not just those inhabitants residing in the immediate vicinity but also society at large.
Q and A for this release.
------------------
Q. Is there any change of the value at the monitoring post?
A. At the monitoring post 4,
Before the abnormal sounds : 73.2μSv / h (6AM) After the abnormal sounds : 1,941μSv / h (7:50AM)
Q. Is it hydrogen explosion?
A. At 6:14AM, odd sounds happened near the pressure restraint room and the pressure in the pressure restraint room goes down low. So, we think that it caused some problem in the room.
We are investigating further information.
Q. Are there any injured people?
A. We do not know at this moment.
==================================
(2)Building Damage of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 4
15 Mar, 2011
TEPCO
Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station
At approximately 6:00AM, a large sound occurred on the site of the power station. After that, damage was confirmed around the roof of the reactor building on the 4th floor.
After usage, fuel is stored in a pool designated for spent fuel.
The status of the plant and the effects of offsite radioactivity are now under investigation.
TEPCO continues to take all measure to restore the safety and security of the site and are monitoring the site’s immediate surroundings.
Q and A
Q What is the pool temperature?
A Normal temperature is around 25 C, but at 4:18 on March 14 it was 84 C.
We have no record after this.
====================================
(3) [Unit 1 Fukushima Daiichi] 1F-4 Fire Reactor building of 1F-4 is on fire. Efforts are being made to extinguish the fire.
The cause of this fire is estimated hydrogen explosion due to increase of spent fuel pool temperature.

====================================
(4) Other information
At 10:22 a.m. on March 15, monitoring result shown 30 mSv/hr between unit 2 and 3,
400 mSv/hr near unit 3, 100 mSv/hr near unit 4.
The reason of this high value is attributed to the fire at unit 4.
(Monitoring results before and after the unit 2 explosion changed little.)
Number of Personnel at the site was 800 at 6:00am, now reduced to 50, necessary for water injection to unit 1,2 and 3. Water injection to units 1,2 and 3 are in progress. Reactor pressure is stable.

Saw some scuttle a few pages ago about the h2, it ain't from the turbine its a combo of hydrolysis from the sea water and radiolysis

sf

[Cycoticpenguin]

They have more important things to do than teach a nub systems.

I was implying more so the international community could decipher vs my own personal curiousity. You know good and well I'll come bug you with a specific question. But I just dont see the reason why they wouldnt want as many eyes on this as possible. As knowledgable as you are, you are ultimately guessing, which is crap. If they have the time to report that certain activities are going on, why cant they elaborate a little bit. O.o

[JustinHEMI05]

I was implying more so the international community could decipher vs my own personal curiousity. You know good and well I'll come bug you with a specific question. But I just dont see the reason why they wouldnt want as many eyes on this as possible. As knowledgable as you are, you are ultimately guessing, which is crap. If they have the time to report that certain activities are going on, why cant they elaborate a little bit. O.o

I think the updates are pretty detailed, depending on where you are looking. There are far too many parameters that they can't possibly report them all.... assuming they even have any parameters to report. There is only certain instrumentation that would be operable after a station black out.

All I need/want to know is reactor level, reactor pressure, containment temperature, containment level and containment pressure. At this point, those are the important parameters in a BWR. The only one I am not getting some sore of trend on regularly is containment temperature, but knowing pressure is just as good, temperature would just be "nice to know."

System status... nothing is working. What more do you need to know about that?

Justin

[eldeelf]

I think it is time to quit speculating and start praying. I pray for the men and women of Japan and those who are have been at those power plants giving their lives to save their fellow countrymen. May God guide them and help them all through this terrible situtation.

[Bleyse]

That is true the press is just stirring panic to sell papers and get ratings for their news shows but I have not heard any stories of the people that are doing there best to make a difference who are probably worried about there own families yet are still at the plant doing there best at there job.

Well, we finally got one....  a story that credits them as the heroes that they are.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1#

[matthew.b]

I have been struggling to imagine the working conditions these brave heroes are enduring.  There is no ventilation, little to absolutely no lighting (flashlights), no elevators, no cranes, no electric tools.  It is hot, dark and in some places possibly lethal doses with limited ways to monitor.  Yet the heroes persevere, battling to keep their fellow countrymen as safe as possible - sacrificing their own health to do so.  I am not being dramatic, I am being honest.  I had to say it.

XF

Don't forget the fear of multi-ton chunks of plant flying through the air.  After one explosion they know there could be more.

[drayer54]

Well, we finally got one....  a story that credits them as the heroes that they are.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1#

Damn glad to see that. I know we are all praying for the brave people on the site.
I also thought I would share this site. It's a decent for dummies type thing that could help those of us in the Nub column.

 http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/