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Matthew B

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #350 on: Mar 16, 2011, 02:26 »
Would you be staging equipment outside if there were explosions throwing heavy debris occurring high overhead?  How about staying close to watch the fuel level?

I'd put it in the turbine building on a lower level to provide as much of a missile shield as possible.

Offline vagabond

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #351 on: Mar 16, 2011, 05:51 »
Anyone know why they are having difficulty in getting water into their spent fuel pool at Unit 4?  The core is offloaded, which means it is in the spent fuel pool.  This means the fuel pool gates are probably removed which means if they inject water into the Reactor Vessel it will spill over into the Fuel Pool.  If, for some strange reason fuel pool gates are installed then filling the reactor vessel should cause level to overflow into the Fuel Pool Skimmer Surge Tanks and then back into the spent fuel pool.  I don't think they could be designed that differently from our MARK 1.  Maybe they are having flowrate to the vessel issues or maybe they are just that different in design due to the age of the plant.

XF

It could be due to them losing level and making the area inaccessible.  Given the fuel was recently put in the pool I could see level dropping while they were trying to deal with the problem at the other units.  A high pressure long distance fire nozzle would do wonders for them in this case, as long as all of the roof were gone to make the aim easier.
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

Offline goobs22xx

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #352 on: Mar 16, 2011, 06:40 »
Probably,The media probably took the two words they wanted to hear and ran with it (also CNBC trying to recover GE)....
Good call on that one. Is it really .5mR per day? sounds high (PM me on that one)...
Anyways, good follow up because I still see nothing to support the lowering claim other than that.

I know you were looking for a PM, but here is what I found:

http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/around-us/doses-daily-lives.html

620 mrem/year which comes out to 1.7 mrem/day

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #353 on: Mar 16, 2011, 07:08 »
I know you were looking for a PM, but here is what I found:

http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/radiation/around-us/doses-daily-lives.html

620 mrem/year which comes out to 1.7 mrem/day

good catch, I was looking at 2 different sites. O.o 1,7mrem daily. So they are getting a little more then double "normal".



Offline HomersTwin

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #355 on: Mar 16, 2011, 08:30 »
I haven't had time to read all posts on this thread (outage time) so sorry if this has already been asked, but does the plant and units in question have a steam driven EFW pump and if so, does anyone know why it is not working?  All I hear about is how the diesel power that was knocked out locked up all their alternate cooling.

Pezzle

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #356 on: Mar 16, 2011, 08:53 »
I've been using this thread as a better source of information than the media outlets. I am pretty nervous now, really pulling for the operators still at the plant. It feels like I have a strange insatiable urge to go there and help in the aftermath, even if it's nothing but decon and hauling rubble.

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #357 on: Mar 16, 2011, 08:57 »
I've been using this thread as a better source of information than the media outlets. I am pretty nervous now, really pulling for the operators still at the plant. It feels like I have a strange insatiable urge to go there and help in the aftermath, even if it's nothing but decon and hauling rubble.

Better bring your own PAPR. Most of the pics of rescuers and people on-scene show them as walking human fission product air filters  >:(

Nuclear Renaissance

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #358 on: Mar 16, 2011, 09:50 »
A better look at the destruction done to Unit 3's secondary containment by the 2nd hydrogen explosion:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/16/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1

Offline PJMcG

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #359 on: Mar 16, 2011, 09:57 »
Recent still shots of Fukushima Daiichi damage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366670/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-Radiation-soars-Fukushima-nuclear-plant.html

Can a Mark I containment/plant layout describe the equipment on the ocean side of the turbine building please?  Specifically, which tanks are those still standing?  I know the layout may be different there than here and you may have to 'guess.'

Thanks,

PJ

"By its paw shall you know the lion."

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #360 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:02 »
I would guess condensate storage tanks.

Justin

Sun Dog

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #361 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:12 »
We all should realize that some organizations will exploit this natural disaster to promote their specific agenda.  One of those organizations is Mothers for Peace out of San Luis Obispo, CA.  Have no doubt that this organization is monitoring what is said on this thread and if possible, will manipulate your words and use them to promote their misguided ideology.

I hope I am wrong, but I sense that MFP members are secretly glad this event occurred, just so they can say "see, we told you so."

Read what these folks are saying at:

http://www.mothersforpeace.org/


Offline PJMcG

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #362 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:18 »
Sun Dog,

Great find and good advice.  As I stated last night, it's important to point out factual inaccuracies when we come across them.  To wit, it wasn't the quake that started this accident; safety systems responded as designed.  It was the tsunami that crippled this facility.  If SLOMFP have an issue with earth quakes, fine let's have honest, informed, intelligent, and respectful debates about seismic qualification and design consideration.

Good work!

PJ
"By its paw shall you know the lion."

Xenon_Free

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #363 on: Mar 16, 2011, 10:21 »
I believe the largest tanks are Condensate Storage tanks.  The smaller 2 visible tanks out closer to the ocean are likely Demineralized Water Storage Tanks, looks like they are shared between 2 units.  The tall cylindrical tanks closest to the turbine building are probably nitrogen.  Best guess.

XF

Offline vagabond

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #364 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:09 »
Recent still shots of Fukushima Daiichi damage.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366670/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-Radiation-soars-Fukushima-nuclear-plant.html

Can a Mark I containment/plant layout describe the equipment on the ocean side of the turbine building please?  Specifically, which tanks are those still standing?  I know the layout may be different there than here and you may have to 'guess.'

Thanks,

PJ



There's some interesting political moves in that article.  When the French cannot raise a white flag they attack, but only in the war of words.  Guenther Oettinger saying the talk of apocalypse is appropriate rattles me. 
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

01changeup

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #365 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:26 »
To all who have posted in this thread:
Thank you. When I first heard of problems with the nuclear power plants in Japan my first thought was to come to this site. I knew the people here would do two things: first, they would filter the news coming out to quickly identify that which was most likely to be accurate and useful, and second, they would offer opinions and facts based on their combined expertise. I have not been let down at all. I agree with most here that the operators currently in Japan are heroes of the first order who are living every operator’s worst nightmare. I will continue to check into this site frequently for more information. Thank you again for your service to the industry by helping those of us who want to be informed to stay informed.
V/R
01changeup

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #366 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:37 »
We all should realize that some organizations will exploit this natural disaster to promote their specific agenda.  One of those organizations is Mothers for Peace out of San Luis Obispo, CA.  Have no doubt that this organization is monitoring what is said on this thread and if possible, will manipulate your words and use them to promote their misguided ideology.

I hope I am wrong, but I sense that MFP members are secretly glad this event occurred, just so they can say "see, we told you so."

Read what these folks are saying at:

http://www.mothersforpeace.org/



Do they have a forum? I feel like trolling ignorants.


JustinHEMI05

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #367 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:43 »
Rise above, CM. You're in the big leagues now.

Justin

Offline G-reg

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #368 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:51 »
Lil' bit of actual sanity in the news - kinda like a breath of fresh air...

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/15/dr-marc-siegel-calm-carry-japans-radiation-leak-dangerous-fear/
"But that's just my opinion - I could be wrong."
  -  Dennis Miller

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #369 on: Mar 16, 2011, 11:58 »
I'm a site installation manager at Exelon quad city responsible for the turbine installation.

Here ya go, Henry J. Kaiser...grab a meter and make yourself useful! ;)



http://cgi.ebay.com/PALLET-73-HDER-G-01-Survey-Meter-Geiger-COMPLETE-SET-/110661281711?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item19c3ed27af

Offline PJMcG

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #370 on: Mar 16, 2011, 12:02 »
I wondered when the MSM would pick up on this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110316/ts_nm/us_japan_quake

Mixed Oxide Fuel (MOX) - Fukushima Daiichi Unit 3 is using it.  But we all know what ordinary low enriched uranium fuel in the presence of a fast neutron flux breeds.  The Pu word strikes fear in the hearts of most.  Again it is that which people don't understand that they fear the most.

PJ
"By its paw shall you know the lion."

Cycoticpenguin

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #371 on: Mar 16, 2011, 12:04 »
Rise above, CM. You're in the big leagues now.

Justin

I know I know....  That whole "maturity" thing is hard to use sometimes ;)


I truely cant believe fox news is being the voice of reason!!! My whole mind is flipping around. haha

Dave- > haha way to call people out man :D

Keln

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #372 on: Mar 16, 2011, 12:20 »
I was looking at the latest report today from the JAIF website (http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/), and noticed radiation levels have increased quite a bit. They are saying just over 190 mrem at the plant site boundary (I don't know if that is an average or the highest reading at the time at a specific point on the boundary). And they are also saying 40 R by unit 3, 3 R by unit 2, and 10 R by unit 4. I'm kind of wondering now what kind of dose rate they are getting in the control rooms. Any ideas on that?

I mean, 190 mrem at the plant site boundary...that is pretty bad. I can't imagine what kind of exposure those workers are getting.

JustinHEMI05

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #373 on: Mar 16, 2011, 12:22 »
That is significantly better than 2 reports ago.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300240000P.pdf

Offline Bradtv

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Re: Japan's Nukes Following Earthquake
« Reply #374 on: Mar 16, 2011, 12:22 »
Lil' bit of actual sanity in the news - kinda like a breath of fresh air...

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/15/dr-marc-siegel-calm-carry-japans-radiation-leak-dangerous-fear/

From the article: Infection and injury will sicken and kill far more in post-earthquake post-tsunami Japan than radiation ever will.

The medias' understanding of nuclear power is still closely associated with nuclear weapons so we've got to help educate the public.  Folks like the Mothers for Peace are certainly entitled to their opinion, hopefully one made after evaluation of the facts.  The crisis with the nuclear plants is serious, but the greatest risk is the millions without food, water, sanitation and medical care.

Thanks to the folks helping to clarify the situation.
"Life is pleasant.  Death is peaceful.
It's the transition that's troublesome."  -Asimov

 


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