Japan

[navynukedoc]

   

ERDC team:



USACE is querying its team looking for persons with issues surrounding nuclear reactors and radioactive materials.  We are canvassing USACE to generate a database of knowledgeable professionals in the areas of structural, environmental, contaminated debris management and nuclear power generation specialists--relative to nuclear power generation and radioactive materials/debris.



If you have the experience as described and are interested in a possible mission, please contact Gus Black (eroc@usace.army.mil) through your first-line supervisor.  Please understand, at this time, we are only trying to develop a list of interested/qualified personnel.  USACE does not have a mission at this time.

ERDC?


And can anyone send info? I would assume yes bc you posted the link, but want confirmation.

[radwaste44]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/16/ex-rad-militarys-radiation-wonder-drug/

[HydroDave63]

   

ERDC team:



USACE is querying its team looking for persons with issues surrounding nuclear reactors and radioactive materials.  We are canvassing USACE to generate a database of knowledgeable professionals in the areas of structural, environmental, contaminated debris management and nuclear power generation specialists--relative to nuclear power generation and radioactive materials/debris.



If you have the experience as described and are interested in a possible mission, please contact Gus Black (eroc@usace.army.mil) through your first-line supervisor.  Please understand, at this time, we are only trying to develop a list of interested/qualified personnel.  USACE does not have a mission at this time.

that address didn't work...

[Already Gone]

Well if you know more share it, because until they start posting jobs it's rumors.

I think that is the point he's making.

There may be some vultures out there who are looking to get "the contract", and maybe talking like they have it, have an edge in getting it, or a lot of other bull$#!t to do some resume mining.

Just go look at "other website" any day of the week.  Every time a DOE site puts out an RFP, ten different companies post job ads as if they already had the contract.  In reality, they have no contract, and no means of getting it, unless you respond and give them a resume to put in their proposal book.

"The contract" will be literally hundreds of contracts, sub-contracts, sub-sub-contracts over the course of several years.

Don't go learning to eat with chopsticks and buying Rosetta Stone Japanese until somebody offers you a job, a start date and a pay rate.

[fermispawn]

Thanx to all that responded and that will respond in the future. This is EXACTLY what I hoped this thread would generate, a bunch of Techs puttin' our heads together (even if they bump sometimes doing it) to keep each other informed!!!

[navynukedoc]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/wl_nm/us_japan_quake

.................

[navynukedoc]

LOL,  I am feeling a McDonalds french fry trip coming on!

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fg-china-iodine-salt-20110318,0,4281601.story?track=rss

How much iodized salt would a human need to consume to block the thyroid?? Not enough before they sent themselves into a dehydrated stroke!

"Will you look at all these rumors surroundin' me every day
I just need some time, some time to get away from
From all these rumors, I can't take it no more"

[UncaBuffalo]

Wonder if there are any short-term volunteer positions...or would I even be useful, since I don´t speak any Japanese?  

I would be glad to pay my way over for a couple of months if I thought I could do any good.  Suppose housing is scarce right now, so maybe if someone wanted to provide room & board a few of us might be interested...?  

Just a thought...if anyone has any better ideas on how I could help...  

[Already Gone]

LOL,  I am feeling a McDonalds french fry trip coming on!

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fg-china-iodine-salt-20110318,0,4281601.story?track=rss

How much iodized salt would a human need to consume to block the thyroid?? Not enough before they sent themselves into a dehydrated stroke!

"Will you look at all these rumors surroundin' me every day
I just need some time, some time to get away from
From all these rumors, I can't take it no more"

A vitamin supplement containing Iodine would probably be a better choice.  The thyroid can't use more than about 1100 micrograms per day of Iodine.  That would be the equivalent of about four teaspoons of iodized salt.  That much salt would provide around 8000 milligrams of Sodium - around four times the maximum recommended intake of Sodium.  A 130 microgram dose is recommended as a Thyroid block.  That's about half a teaspoon of salt - bringing with it 1000mg of Sodium.
The daily recommended intake of Iodine for dietary purposes (not radiological) is 150 micrograms per day.  (about twice that for pregnant and breast-feeding women).  Except for vegans and vegetarians, most people get around 240 micrograms per day from their diet.
Soybeans, cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, etc) can cause Iodine depletion.  Seaweed contains an abundance of Iodine and is a common ingredient in Japanese foods, such as sushi and some soups.  The typical Japanese diet contains 12,000 micrograms per day of Iodine.  Taking additional Iodine for a person eating a similar diet, would probably cause a goiter.
Hoarding salt, and eating too much of it, isn't really the best option.  But, since the Chinese don't eat a Japanese diet, don't have a clue what's happening in the world, and already eat too much Sodium, I figure that they'll keep lining up to buy it until the "local salt bureau" (is there one of those in my town?) tells them that they have to stop.

[RADBASTARD]

Let the rate bidding for techs to begin? and bid high!

[Already Gone]

Um...No.  This is not an opportunity.  This is a disaster.  If there is going to be any market pressure on the going rate for techs, it will just draw in the drooling mercenaries, probably flooding the pool with everyone who can spell mR or dpm as new "techs", both in Japan and in the US (somebody has to work the outages here).  Then, there won't be any room for all of them when they come home to work in the US, and the pay rate will tank again. 
The best thing that can happen to the current techs is for the price of your services to remain stable with reasonable growth rates.  A short-term spike will not be good.
Even if the cleanup takes decades, our involvement - if any - will only last as long as it takes to train Japanese technicians to replace us.  I figure a few months.

Really, the income opportunity for most HP techs will be the chance to work all summer.  Some will build a nest, but only a very few.

Now, let's consider how this will affect the US nuclear industry.  Outages may be longer to accommodate all the system upgrades that are going to come out of this.  There may even be some unexpected de-commissioning projects as a result of the expense of upgrading. That's where you're going to see growth in your earning capacity.

Too bad that it took something like this to make it happen.

I don't think it is wise to hope that our children get into the business, since there probably won't be anywhere for them to work in a few years.

[Marlin]

Um...No.  This is not an opportunity.  This is a disaster.

I whole heartedly agree. I went to Jr High and my first year of High School in Japan and have nothing but fond memories of Japan and the Japanese people. They need help not mercenaries.

[OldHP]

Let the rate bidding for techs to begin? and bid high!

Um...No.  This is not an opportunity. 

JMO - There will not be a whole lot of opportunities for techs as fallout (pardon the pun) from this event.  There will be a few professional opportunities, particularly for the folks (mostly US) who built the units.   

[navynukedoc]

JMO - There will not be a whole lot of opportunities for techs as fallout (pardon the pun) from this event.  There will be a few professional opportunities, particularly for the folks (mostly US) who built the units.   

I agree. But it still would be nice to go and help out, regardless.

[Cycoticpenguin]

Um...No.  This is not an opportunity.  This is a disaster.  If there is going to be any market pressure on the going rate for techs, it will just draw in the drooling mercenaries, probably flooding the pool with everyone who can spell mR or dpm as new "techs", both in Japan and in the US (somebody has to work the outages here).  Then, there won't be any room for all of them when they come home to work in the US, and the pay rate will tank again. 
The best thing that can happen to the current techs is for the price of your services to remain stable with reasonable growth rates.  A short-term spike will not be good.
Even if the cleanup takes decades, our involvement - if any - will only last as long as it takes to train Japanese technicians to replace us.  I figure a few months.

Really, the income opportunity for most HP techs will be the chance to work all summer.  Some will build a nest, but only a very few.

Now, let's consider how this will affect the US nuclear industry.  Outages may be longer to accommodate all the system upgrades that are going to come out of this.  There may even be some unexpected de-commissioning projects as a result of the expense of upgrading. That's where you're going to see growth in your earning capacity.

Too bad that it took something like this to make it happen.

I don't think it is wise to hope that our children get into the business, since there probably won't be anywhere for them to work in a few years.

Holy Morbid, batman.

You being in the industry you should realize

1) our procedures and protocolls are written in blood of our own and those around us. It took an 8.9 to make us ready for an 8.9, thats just how it goes. Remember when positive temperature coefficients were a good idea?

2) Id be willing to bet Japanese nuke plants have their own qualified technicians to do this work....  Its not like they built these plants 2 years ago and dont know what to do.

3) Who cares if someone capitilizes off of this? If this was such an issue, I have a couple oil companies you need to get into contact with!

4) Im willing to stake my life on the fact that the nuclear industry isnt going to go away any time in the near future .... Obama strictly stated he is still going to push the new plant designs through (spare me your dislike for obama for the polysci forum). I can see shutdowns and upgrades coming, yes. Stock may take a hit. Income may take a slight hit. If TMI didnt stop american nuclear power, an incident in japan after a tsunami and record earth quake wont either.

[SloGlo]

Let the rate bidding for techs to begin? and bid high!

two bid high is too knot win a job.  remember, the people of that country work cheap enough to put our workers on unemployment.  bid responsibly and bid well and yew mite bee able two go they're, make money, and sea the country.

[navynukedoc]

4) Im willing to stake my life on the fact that the nuclear industry isnt going to go away any time in the near future .... Obama strictly stated he is still going to push the new plant designs through (spare me your dislike for obama for the polysci forum). I can see shutdowns and upgrades coming, yes. Stock may take a hit. Income may take a slight hit. If TMI didnt stop american nuclear power, an incident in japan after a tsunami and record earth quake wont either.

Tru dat brotherman!

Mother nature has a way of making us rethink and overcome faults not thought of in the first place. And if they were thought of, now reinforced actions will happen to make sure we design better systems for future (and current for that matter) plants. Could you imagine what would have happened if that same quake and tsunami hit say.........central east coast U.S. How many plants would have been affected by that?? If I can recall properly, ours are majority on shorelines or lower lying river valleys.

[Already Gone]

Where to begin?

1.) Positive Temperature Coefficients are still a good idea.  when you get out of the minor leagues, you'll learn that commercial PWR's have them at the beginning of each fuel cycle.  It is the result of having high Boron concentrations in the coolant at BOL.  The lower density of the coolant means lower density of the Boron, which has a greater effect on reactivity than the lower density of the water.  It doesn't last long.  Goes negative at about the time that Xenon hits equilibrium.

2.) Political reality is one thing. But are YOU going to issue an insurance policy for a new reactor?  Are you going to invest BILLIONS into a plant that may never get a commercial license?  Are you going to educate the approximately 349,998,450 people in this country who know nothing about nuclear power except what they see on CNN or The Amazing Colossal Man?  They vote.  The bankers and underwiters are among them too.

3.) March 1979 - the highest offsite dose rate during the TMI accident (which was MUCH tamer than it could have been if the plant had more than 90 EFPD on it at the time) was from the coal pile at Brunner Island down river.  Did that make a difference?  Nope.  Nobody started new construction on a nuclear plant in over 30 years.  You think THIS is not going to have that same effect?  Seriously.

4.) I don't care who makes a profit from his work.  As a capitalist, I believe that everyone should profit from his work - in direct proportion to the need for that work.  I'm just being realistic.  A short term need of a skill that is easily taught will not result in new millionaires from among the HP Tech. ranks.  It only takes a few weeks to fully train someone to survey, take smears and air samples, and to frisk rubble.  I'm guessing that there a lot of Japanese people who can pick up and run with that.

5.) No, the nuclear industry won't go away quickly.  By its nature it will take a long time to put it all away.  But, don't delude yourself into thinking that it is going to grow any time soon, and the newest nuclear plant in this country is over 25 years old - some are well into their license exensions.  They ain't gonna last forever.  TMI didn't stop nuclear power.  It just stopped it from growing a millimeter in a generation.  Chernobyl was argued away a a fluke that can't happen here.  With so many of the same design power plants as Fukushima Daiichi operating right in our hometowns, that argument will not work this time.

6.) It was NOT an earthquake that caused the current situation.  It was NOT a tsunami either.  It was NOT a combination of the two.  It was a loss of power to a few pumps.  Suddenly, it is no longer a freak of nature any more.  Anything designed by humans, built by humans, and operated by humans, can and will fail.
We talked for years about redundancy (a grammatical error that doesn't bear discussing here), defense-in-depth, probabilistic risk assessment, etc., but when your "backups to backups to backups" are all located on the same piece of real estate, and you didn't postulate as possible that which actually happened, well ... fuhgedaboudit brudda.  If one "statistically impossible" disaster can happen once, then another can happen somewhere else.

Yes, the world SHOULD build new reactors and operate them.  Yes, nuclear power is safe - even when the plants fail epically like these did - and environmentally responsible.  As long as we RE-THINK design, defenses, and contingencies, new reactors won't have to bear the burden of the old assumptions, which we are turning out to be woefully invalid, new reactors SHOULD be built.  Now, go out and convince that 349,998,450 people of that and you're home free.

[Chimera]

To: Already Gone

Nicely said.

Michael

[Cycoticpenguin]

1)  Im not sure how you can say an inherently unstable system is a good idea -.-. Ill do some research on your PWR's after initial refueling. I would happen to be in the "big leagues" now btw, but on a BWR.

2) As long as the big wigs still want it done, I have confidence it will get done. Cost is no object. when we are paying 8 dollars a gallon for gas, Im pretty willing to bet electrical power generation will come to a new level, nuclear plants included. I agree, most people are idiots/ignorant, no arguing that.

3) Well we already have plant designs and buildings in motion. Is the NRC going to just stop? Obama seems to think otherwise.

4) Amen, I agree with you 100%. I think you may be confusing profiteering of disaster with my points.

5) time will tell

6) dude... a catastrophic event exceeding design basis caused multiple system failures. Its not like some moron went out and just turned the pumps off. We know good and well "what happened" (an idea at least), but just as chernobyl gave way to containments, this incident will give way to catastrophe proof plants. We evolve off prior incidents, nature of the beast. Im fully confident we will come out stronger and safer because of this...  at least with the new plant designs.

[JustinHEMI05]

1)  Im not sure how you can say an inherently unstable system is a good idea -.-. Ill do some research on your PWR's after initial refueling. I would happen to be in the "big leagues" now btw, but on a BWR.

AlreadyGone is 100% correct.

You both are arguing two different things, I suspect. I think CM is referring to a design like Chernobyl, in which I agree with him. However, AG is correct about PWRs, and I agree with him.

Carry on.

Justin

[JustinHEMI05]

Oh, if people really want to sweat something, worry about the 11 or so RBMK tractors still in service in and around Russia.

Justin

[Roll Tide]

6.) It was NOT an earthquake that caused the current situation.  It was NOT a tsunami either.  It was NOT a combination of the two.  It was a loss of power to a few pumps.  Suddenly, it is no longer a freak of nature any more.  Anything designed by humans, built by humans, and operated by humans, can and will fail.

Are you intentionally myopic? If the plant had been designed with 9.0 as the design basis earthquake, then the supports for the pumps / motors / cables / switches / diesel generators would have been rigorous enough to withstand the earthquake. If siting criteria required preparations for a 30' wall of water moving 500 mph, same thing. Of course, you may not be able to get around inside the reactor building due to all of the extra supports (think Watts Bar's U-1 containment).

The fact is that an unanticipated natural disaster has struck perhaps the most prepared nation in the world and caused thousands of deaths and billions of $ of damage. All things considered, I think the response of the systems has been excellent. If forced cooling is established this week, there will probably not be any deaths due to radiation. Much better than Chernobyl.

[JustinHEMI05]

It was an act of God. You can't plan against Him, and it would be ludicrous to try.

Justin

[Marlin]

There has been a little critisism of management (source WSJ) who appeared to delay use of salt water for cooling to conserve company assets. Even with a 1000 year disaster this could have been a smaller disaster. The human factor is difficult to factor into the safety basis.