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Offline navynukedoc

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I131 from Japan
« on: Mar 22, 2011, 08:26 »
OK, now I know I am not a power guy as of yet, but I am learnig rapidly. The news just broadcast that ARRA (Arizona Radiation Regulatory Administration) just reported today that iodine 131 from Japan has been detected on very low levels in west Phoenix.

Ok, now,

#1 How does I131 come from a reactor?

#2 Could it in fact travel that far?

I know I131 is relatively short lived so I am scratching my head trying to understand this.

-Doc
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Online Marlin

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #1 on: Mar 22, 2011, 08:45 »
Quote from: navynukedoc on Mar 22, 2011, 08:26
#1 How does I131 come from a reactor?

Fission fragment

Quote from: navynukedoc on Mar 22, 2011, 08:26
#2 Could it in fact travel that far?

Yes

Quote from: navynukedoc on Mar 22, 2011, 08:26
I know I131 is relatively short lived so I am scratching my head trying to understand this.

Depends on size of the source, seven half lives to one percent is 56 days.
« Last Edit: Mar 22, 2011, 08:46 by Marlin »
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #2 on: Mar 22, 2011, 08:51 »
It's a gas
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Online Marlin

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #3 on: Mar 22, 2011, 08:51 »
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Offline grantime

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #4 on: Mar 22, 2011, 09:35 »
We do need to keep reminding people that there is a difference between detectable and dangerous.  Too many members of public don't understand the distinction
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Offline stormgoalie

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #5 on: Mar 22, 2011, 09:39 »
Quote from: grantime on Mar 22, 2011, 09:35
We do need to keep reminding people that there is a difference between detectable and dangerous.  Too many members of public don't understand the distinction

Amen!! Though I would be interested to see what the environmental samples at Hanford are showing for activity :)
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Offline OldHP

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #6 on: Mar 22, 2011, 10:22 »
Quote from: navynukedoc on Mar 22, 2011, 08:26
The news just broadcast that ARRA (Arizona Radiation Regulatory Administration) just reported today that iodine 131 from Japan has been detected on very low levels in west Phoenix

OK!  Now, have we checked off gas from Palo Verde and San O (or the cows and sheep)?  I-131 at decectable levels is not out of the ordanary.  Just check, it could even be from the local hospital!
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Offline RDTroja

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #7 on: Mar 22, 2011, 10:42 »
Did they find little 'Made In Japan' stickers on it? Why Arizona and not other places between Japan and there?

Color me skeptical.  ::)
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Offline navynukedoc

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #8 on: Mar 22, 2011, 11:45 »
Quote from: OldHP on Mar 22, 2011, 10:22
OK!  Now, have we checked off gas from Palo Verde and San O (or the cows and sheep)?  I-131 at decectable levels is not out of the ordanary.  Just check, it could even be from the local hospital!

I agree. It could be palo verde. A local hospital is another good point, since we do have the largest VA hospital in the nation behind Tampa, FL.
Quote from: RDTroja on Mar 22, 2011, 10:42
Did they find little 'Made In Japan' stickers on it? Why Arizona and not other places between Japan and there?

Color me skeptical.  ::)

I can almost guarantee they didn't, hell, most of these guys can't find my office on campus let alone see little stamps!  +K For the giggle.
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Offline Bonds 25

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #9 on: Mar 23, 2011, 01:38 »
We found some detectable I-131 on our air samples here at Columbia today.  We checked our outside CAMs that we have set up due to a near by Handford dig.   Results were 6.74E-13 uCi per cc with MDA being 5.23E-13 per cc.
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Offline jkj

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #10 on: Mar 23, 2011, 02:18 »
Quote from: hamsamich on Mar 22, 2011, 08:51
It's a gas


  Jumpin' Jack Flash!---- 8)
(It sublimates)
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2011, 02:23 by jkj »
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RAD-GHOST

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #11 on: Mar 23, 2011, 07:23 »
I have to agree with Mr. Troja.  

Although Iodine is a great indicator, your gonna have to show me another isotope, or two, for validation!

That's one isotope that is produced in very appreciable quantities for the medical industry.  So far we've seen a lot of information addressing exposure rates at and around the facility, but nothing addressing any air sample analysis, (Isotopics).  I'm under the opinion that no analysis were completed due to a lack of operational equipment.  It's very possible that Iodine from the event may reach our shore's, but we have our own sources of production and an absolute finger pointing issue is rediculous!

There are two available sources that supply information on Fission Product Yield; The May West curve, which is probably politically incorrect to use in todays professional environment and the Chart of the Nuclides, which designates fission products via a black triangle, (bottom of the page).  Fission yield is also indicated in percentage on the chart.

As far as detectable Iodine, ESPECIALLY at the -13 level, I believe someone forgot the percentage of ERROR associated with the count....(+/- a Maybe)?

Have a Great Day...RG!





« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2011, 07:28 by RAD-GHOST »
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Offline Bonds 25

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #12 on: Mar 23, 2011, 08:14 »
Quote from: RAD-GHOST on Mar 23, 2011, 07:23
I have to agree with Mr. Troja.  

Although Iodine is a great indicator, your gonna have to show me another isotope, or two, for validation!

That's one isotope that is produced in very appreciable quantities for the medical industry.  So far we've seen a lot of information addressing exposure rates at and around the facility, but nothing addressing any air sample analysis, (Isotopics).  I'm under the opinion that no analysis were completed due to a lack of operational equipment.  It's very possible that Iodine from the event may reach our shore's, but we have our own sources of production and an absolute finger pointing issue is rediculous!

There are two available sources that supply information on Fission Product Yield; The May West curve, which is probably politically incorrect to use in todays professional environment and the Chart of the Nuclides, which designates fission products via a black triangle, (bottom of the page).  Fission yield is also indicated in percentage on the chart.

As far as detectable Iodine, ESPECIALLY at the -13 level, I believe someone forgot the percentage of ERROR associated with the count....(+/- a Maybe)?

Have a Great Day...RG!










Just telling you what exactly we reported to the NRC yesterday......and no I didnt do the counting of the air samples.
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2011, 08:16 by Bonds 25 »
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Online Marlin

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #13 on: Mar 23, 2011, 08:58 »
Quote from: Marssim on Mar 23, 2011, 08:37
It's a data point, these threads are open to the general public, I'm pretty sure others on the thread are just emphasizing I-131 is a single data point, which helps to corroborate, and is itself in need of corroboration by, other data points,...

Remember, you told us you set up your CAMS to monitor possible activity from a nearby Hanford dig, then you posted I-131 results in a thread discussing Japan, not Hanford.

Data points.

   There is always the co-located therapeutical thyroid patient. I have seen does rates from a person that were essentially a "Radiation Area" (2.5 mr/hr at a foot), the tracer doses are much lower but still are much higher by gross activity than can be released from a licensed facility such as a power plant. Port-A-Potties have been detained on sites, while the Iodine decays below release limits, when Rad Worker trained people have neglected to inform the Radiation Protection group of medical isotope injections by Physicians.
   Like x-rays, the risk from the dose by medical isotopic treatments are assessed by your doctor to be in your best interest and the risk of the dose is less than the alternatives, just to put this in perspective.
      I suppose I should add that I-131 is the isotope used for therapeutic and diagnostic procedures.
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Offline MeterSwangin

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #14 on: Mar 23, 2011, 10:39 »
Good grief.  6E-13 I-131 with traces of Cs-137 and Tl-132 have been reported at SONGS, PV, Diablo, and Ca state agencies since last Friday.   

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drayer54

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #15 on: Mar 23, 2011, 10:43 »
Quote from: MeterSwangin on Mar 23, 2011, 10:39
Good grief.  6E-13 I-131 with traces of Cs-137 and Tl-132 have been reported at SONGS, PV, Diablo, and Ca state agencies since last Friday.   


I sit you not, I have seen Iodine tablets and gas masks for sale roadside here in CA! I will get a photo next time if I get it at a red light.... Now, were they legit iodine tablets? Probably not... Gas Mask? Sure why not..... I saw the guy last weekend and wanted to get a picture before posting it on here, but yeah it's happening. CA people are nuts anyways.
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Offline Brett LaVigne

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #16 on: Mar 24, 2011, 01:06 »
We have been seeing E-13 levels of I-131 since last Friday in NorCal. And I am fairly sure it ain't from us. Pretty much conting atoms at that point, but it's there.
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #17 on: Mar 24, 2011, 08:58 »
I think if you keep seeing E13 levels over and over again that is enough proof.  One or two E13 aint good enough but a continuous low level that wasn't there b4 is good enough for me.
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RAD-GHOST

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #18 on: Mar 24, 2011, 09:31 »
Quote from: MeterSwangin on Mar 23, 2011, 10:39
Good grief.  6E-13 I-131 with traces of Cs-137 and Tl-132 have been reported at SONGS, PV, Diablo, and Ca state agencies since last Friday.

I don't believe anybody is disputing the fact that some airborne radioactive material may reach our shore's, but hopefully accurate information, with validation, will accompany the claims.

FIRST, what is a "TRACE"?  Seems like a vague venue for validation!  I'm not sure how they do it out west, but I will assume that the power facilities actually have gamma spectroscopy equipment. 

SECOND, What the Heck is Tl-132?

What am I missing....... :D

RG
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RAD-GHOST

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #19 on: Mar 24, 2011, 11:33 »
ROFL

Made you look, didn't I.... ;D

Maybe it wasn't so obvious........... :->

RG... ;)

« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2011, 11:35 by RAD-GHOST »
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Offline navynukedoc

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #20 on: Mar 24, 2011, 12:23 »
Yeah, well I guess my question was more than answered. Thanks guys!!!  +K +K +K +K
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Offline Mike_Koehler

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #21 on: Mar 24, 2011, 01:08 »
All I can say publicly is that Airborne Radioactivity from Japan has been positively Identified by this laboratory (as being from these Reactors).

http://www.kndo.com/Global/story.asp?S=14302539

Mike
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Offline spentfuel

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #22 on: Mar 24, 2011, 02:51 »
Its out there or here I should say and its from Japan

Hospital I-131 in air samples  ??? ??? ???

I-131 was one of the first and highest concentration isotope seen from Chernobyl so It does not surprise me. 

I have heard its been seen in several eastern states also at detectable levels or trace if you perfer.

Trace being what can be validated with acceptable gamma spec counting criteria.

BTW I think the Tl was suppose to be Te

sf
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Offline MeterSwangin

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #23 on: Mar 25, 2011, 01:12 »
Quote from: RAD-GHOST on Mar 24, 2011, 09:31
.

FIRST, what is a "TRACE"?  Seems like a vague venue for validation!  I'm not sure how they do it out west, but I will assume that the power facilities actually have gamma spectroscopy equipment. 

What am I missing....... :D

RG

Trace is 2 E-13 Cs-137.  Gone now.  Te-132 was fleeting.  Gone now also.  Just 4 E-13 I-131 left.
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Offline namlive

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Re: I131 from Japan
« Reply #24 on: Mar 25, 2011, 01:54 »
You can google a live Cs-137 plume on line from Japan to the US from an Austrian source. I was reading Xe-133 also. These are fission products that came from the initial unit 1 meltdown and not the mess from unit 4 SFP which wouldn't have these isotopes in this quantity. What this means is more is yet to come depending on the wind. I-131 has been detected in Iceland already.  I told my supervisor we would be smearing the parking lot before this is over. He just laughed and said, "no." We shall see.

Has the levels given you west coast types any nuisance alarms?
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