I131 from Japan

[navynukedoc]

OK, now I know I am not a power guy as of yet, but I am learnig rapidly. The news just broadcast that ARRA (Arizona Radiation Regulatory Administration) just reported today that iodine 131 from Japan has been detected on very low levels in west Phoenix.

Ok, now,

#1 How does I131 come from a reactor?

#2 Could it in fact travel that far?

I know I131 is relatively short lived so I am scratching my head trying to understand this.

-Doc

[Marlin]

#1 How does I131 come from a reactor?

Fission fragment

#2 Could it in fact travel that far?

Yes

I know I131 is relatively short lived so I am scratching my head trying to understand this.

Depends on size of the source, seven half lives to one percent is 56 days.

[hamsamich]

It's a gas

[Marlin]

It's a gas

Good point. 

[grantime]

We do need to keep reminding people that there is a difference between detectable and dangerous.  Too many members of public don't understand the distinction

[stormgoalie]

We do need to keep reminding people that there is a difference between detectable and dangerous.  Too many members of public don't understand the distinction

Amen!! Though I would be interested to see what the environmental samples at Hanford are showing for activity

[OldHP]

The news just broadcast that ARRA (Arizona Radiation Regulatory Administration) just reported today that iodine 131 from Japan has been detected on very low levels in west Phoenix

OK!  Now, have we checked off gas from Palo Verde and San O (or the cows and sheep)?  I-131 at decectable levels is not out of the ordanary.  Just check, it could even be from the local hospital!

[RDTroja]

Did they find little 'Made In Japan' stickers on it? Why Arizona and not other places between Japan and there?

Color me skeptical. 

[navynukedoc]

OK!  Now, have we checked off gas from Palo Verde and San O (or the cows and sheep)?  I-131 at decectable levels is not out of the ordanary.  Just check, it could even be from the local hospital!

I agree. It could be palo verde. A local hospital is another good point, since we do have the largest VA hospital in the nation behind Tampa, FL.

Did they find little 'Made In Japan' stickers on it? Why Arizona and not other places between Japan and there?

Color me skeptical. 

I can almost guarantee they didn't, hell, most of these guys can't find my office on campus let alone see little stamps!  For the giggle.

[Bonds 25]

We found some detectable I-131 on our air samples here at Columbia today.  We checked our outside CAMs that we have set up due to a near by Handford dig.   Results were 6.74E-13 uCi per cc with MDA being 5.23E-13 per cc.

[jkj]

It's a gas

  Jumpin' Jack Flash!----
(It sublimates)

[RAD-GHOST]

I have to agree with Mr. Troja.  

Although Iodine is a great indicator, your gonna have to show me another isotope, or two, for validation!

That's one isotope that is produced in very appreciable quantities for the medical industry.  So far we've seen a lot of information addressing exposure rates at and around the facility, but nothing addressing any air sample analysis, (Isotopics).  I'm under the opinion that no analysis were completed due to a lack of operational equipment.  It's very possible that Iodine from the event may reach our shore's, but we have our own sources of production and an absolute finger pointing issue is rediculous!

There are two available sources that supply information on Fission Product Yield; The May West curve, which is probably politically incorrect to use in todays professional environment and the Chart of the Nuclides, which designates fission products via a black triangle, (bottom of the page).  Fission yield is also indicated in percentage on the chart.

As far as detectable Iodine, ESPECIALLY at the -13 level, I believe someone forgot the percentage of ERROR associated with the count....(+/- a Maybe)?

Have a Great Day...RG!

[Bonds 25]

I have to agree with Mr. Troja.  

Although Iodine is a great indicator, your gonna have to show me another isotope, or two, for validation!

That's one isotope that is produced in very appreciable quantities for the medical industry.  So far we've seen a lot of information addressing exposure rates at and around the facility, but nothing addressing any air sample analysis, (Isotopics).  I'm under the opinion that no analysis were completed due to a lack of operational equipment.  It's very possible that Iodine from the event may reach our shore's, but we have our own sources of production and an absolute finger pointing issue is rediculous!

There are two available sources that supply information on Fission Product Yield; The May West curve, which is probably politically incorrect to use in todays professional environment and the Chart of the Nuclides, which designates fission products via a black triangle, (bottom of the page).  Fission yield is also indicated in percentage on the chart.

As far as detectable Iodine, ESPECIALLY at the -13 level, I believe someone forgot the percentage of ERROR associated with the count....(+/- a Maybe)?

Have a Great Day...RG!

Just telling you what exactly we reported to the NRC yesterday......and no I didnt do the counting of the air samples.

[Marlin]

It's a data point, these threads are open to the general public, I'm pretty sure others on the thread are just emphasizing I-131 is a single data point, which helps to corroborate, and is itself in need of corroboration by, other data points,...

Remember, you told us you set up your CAMS to monitor possible activity from a nearby Hanford dig, then you posted I-131 results in a thread discussing Japan, not Hanford.

Data points.

   There is always the co-located therapeutical thyroid patient. I have seen does rates from a person that were essentially a "Radiation Area" (2.5 mr/hr at a foot), the tracer doses are much lower but still are much higher by gross activity than can be released from a licensed facility such as a power plant. Port-A-Potties have been detained on sites, while the Iodine decays below release limits, when Rad Worker trained people have neglected to inform the Radiation Protection group of medical isotope injections by Physicians.
   Like x-rays, the risk from the dose by medical isotopic treatments are assessed by your doctor to be in your best interest and the risk of the dose is less than the alternatives, just to put this in perspective.
      I suppose I should add that I-131 is the isotope used for therapeutic and diagnostic procedures.

[MeterSwangin]

Good grief.  6E-13 I-131 with traces of Cs-137 and Tl-132 have been reported at SONGS, PV, Diablo, and Ca state agencies since last Friday.   

[drayer54]

Good grief.  6E-13 I-131 with traces of Cs-137 and Tl-132 have been reported at SONGS, PV, Diablo, and Ca state agencies since last Friday.   

I sit you not, I have seen Iodine tablets and gas masks for sale roadside here in CA! I will get a photo next time if I get it at a red light.... Now, were they legit iodine tablets? Probably not... Gas Mask? Sure why not..... I saw the guy last weekend and wanted to get a picture before posting it on here, but yeah it's happening. CA people are nuts anyways.

[Brett LaVigne]

We have been seeing E-13 levels of I-131 since last Friday in NorCal. And I am fairly sure it ain't from us. Pretty much conting atoms at that point, but it's there.

[hamsamich]

I think if you keep seeing E13 levels over and over again that is enough proof.  One or two E13 aint good enough but a continuous low level that wasn't there b4 is good enough for me.

[RAD-GHOST]

Good grief.  6E-13 I-131 with traces of Cs-137 and Tl-132 have been reported at SONGS, PV, Diablo, and Ca state agencies since last Friday.

I don't believe anybody is disputing the fact that some airborne radioactive material may reach our shore's, but hopefully accurate information, with validation, will accompany the claims.

FIRST, what is a "TRACE"?  Seems like a vague venue for validation!  I'm not sure how they do it out west, but I will assume that the power facilities actually have gamma spectroscopy equipment. 

SECOND, What the Heck is Tl-132?

What am I missing.......

RG

[RAD-GHOST]

Made you look, didn't I....

Maybe it wasn't so obvious...........

RG...

[navynukedoc]

Yeah, well I guess my question was more than answered. Thanks guys!!! 

[Mike_Koehler]

All I can say publicly is that Airborne Radioactivity from Japan has been positively Identified by this laboratory (as being from these Reactors).

http://www.kndo.com/Global/story.asp?S=14302539

Mike

[spentfuel]

Its out there or here I should say and its from Japan

Hospital I-131 in air samples 

I-131 was one of the first and highest concentration isotope seen from Chernobyl so It does not surprise me. 

I have heard its been seen in several eastern states also at detectable levels or trace if you perfer.

Trace being what can be validated with acceptable gamma spec counting criteria.

BTW I think the Tl was suppose to be Te

sf

[MeterSwangin]

.

FIRST, what is a "TRACE"?  Seems like a vague venue for validation!  I'm not sure how they do it out west, but I will assume that the power facilities actually have gamma spectroscopy equipment. 

What am I missing.......

RG

Trace is 2 E-13 Cs-137.  Gone now.  Te-132 was fleeting.  Gone now also.  Just 4 E-13 I-131 left.

[namlive]

You can google a live Cs-137 plume on line from Japan to the US from an Austrian source. I was reading Xe-133 also. These are fission products that came from the initial unit 1 meltdown and not the mess from unit 4 SFP which wouldn't have these isotopes in this quantity. What this means is more is yet to come depending on the wind. I-131 has been detected in Iceland already.  I told my supervisor we would be smearing the parking lot before this is over. He just laughed and said, "no." We shall see.

Has the levels given you west coast types any nuisance alarms?

[Llama]

Am heading out to California tomorrow. Here is the checklist:

Fullface respirator......Check
Bottle of 1000 tabs of iodine pills....Check
Lead-lined jockstrap.......Check

On a serious note I will probably get more exposure on the flight there than from the trace amounts of iodine from the Janpanese plants. As usual the media has blown things out of proportion. What we will have as a result of the events taking place in Japan is:

   Radioactive iodine will have decayed off after approximately 40 days
   Cesium levels will increase slightly over the current environmental levels
   The economic impact will much greater than the radiological impact
   Reliance on fossil fuels will increase (i.e. cost of oil will go up) since it is faster to build these than nuke plants
   Anti-nukes will sieze the opportunity to discredit the construction of new plants (for the life of me I don't see
   how solar and wind power will supply the base needs on a calm night).

And of course I will add the disclaimer that the preceding comments are those of my own opinions   

[spentfuel]

News from Duke

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/03/28/2177798/trace-radiation-from-japanese.html#

sf

[Mike_Koehler]

Has the levels given you west coast types any nuisance alarms?

Yes

[Already Gone]

Trace levels have made it to New Hampshire.  Let the madness begin.

[JustinHEMI05]

Got a company notice today that "Japanese I131" has been detected at all our our sites. That is Ohio and PA. I like the term "Japanese I131."

[navynukedoc]

Got a company notice today that "Japanese I131" has been detected at all our our sites. That is Ohio and PA. I like the term "Japanese I131."

I will laugh with you. But think about this. Maybe it's a conspiracy. I mean, seriously, now that the world is worried about Japanese I131, we can all let ours out too, kind of like dumping our used motor oil in our neighbors backyard?? Who would know the difference??

Ok, retarded moment is finished.

Any other place besides random spots in the U.S. reporting the same thing?

[navynukedoc]

Fu-Go Type A

Fu-Go Type B

Fu-Go Type I131

So your thinking a grudge from the mid 1940's?? Wow, they must really be peaved!

[OldHP]

I like the term "Japanese I-131."

Fu-Go Type I-131

Particularly OH/PA!  I've been around for a little while, but can some one tell me how a responsible person can say "Japanese I-131"?  Granted, most hospitals do not "burp" I-131 (but it does happen), it goes out in through the drains.  But, I-131 is common in this country, as most, so how do you identify Japan as the source?

[JustinHEMI05]

Particularly OH/PA!  I've been around for a little while, but can some one tell me how a responsible person can say "Japanese I-131"?  Granted, most hospitals do not "burp" I-131 (but it does happen), it goes out in through the drains.  But, I-131 is common in this country, as most, so how do you identify Japan as the source?

That is what I was wondering. I know they can, I would just like to know how.

Justin

[hamsamich]

It is only assumed to be from the Japanese plants due to the many places that are detecting it.  There is no way to actually prove a certain atom is from a certain reactor.  Unless I am missing something very big and obvious.  Which has happened.

[OldHP]

That is what I was wondering. I know they can, I would just like to know how.

Justin

Actually I was beginning to think that what I was used to seeing as:

I-131 xxx xxx

Might be appearing as:

I
_

1
3
1


x
x
x


Sorry - I just had to do it .   
x
x
x

[MeterSwangin]

That is what I was wondering. I know they can, I would just like to know how.

Justin

The I-131 has been steady for two weeks now, and is accompanied by Cs-137.  Japanese.....

[JustinHEMI05]

Thanks for the info.

I don't get the joke OldHP, probably because I don't know anything about what happens to my core after I melt it.

[Mike_Koehler]

It isn't just the I-131 but the ratio of other "ultratrace isotopes" in the sample that ID it.

Mike

[spentfuel]

Particularly OH/PA!  I've been around for a little while, but can some one tell me how a responsible person can say "Japanese I-131"?  Granted, most hospitals do not "burp" I-131 (but it does happen), it goes out in through the drains.  But, I-131 is common in this country, as most, so how do you identify Japan as the source?

It is only assumed to be from the Japanese plants due to the many places that are detecting it.  There is no way to actually prove a certain atom is from a certain reactor.  Unless I am missing something very big and obvious.  Which has happened.

Lets see now..... 4 Japanese reactors suffer suspected core damage and are known to have been vented to relieve reactor pressure.... soon I-131 is detected in various contries including ours.....now unless Chernobyl is going critical again where else did it come from.... The salt company's perhaps  (you know they do add Iodine to salt)

Or perhaps all the hospitals around the world decided to take liquid I-131 and make it an aerosol and sent it in a secret rocket ship to the upper atmosphere so it could travel around the world

sounds plausible to me

sf

[RAD-GHOST]

It isn't just the I-131 but the ratio of other "ultratrace isotopes" in the sample that ID it.

Mike

"Ultratrace"....Is that like, it's there, but it's not, but it could be........

RG

[JustinHEMI05]

Hey I have been asked how exactly something like I131 in water is measured. This is beyond my realm of knowledge, so does anyone have any good links I can share? Thanks

Justin

[spentfuel]

Hey I have been asked how exactly something like I131 in water is measured. This is beyond my realm of knowledge, so does anyone have any good links I can share? Thanks

Justin

Simple answer is gamma spectroscopy of a calibrated geometry sample

sf

[namlive]

Right now they can measure it with an R0-20. Oh wait that only goes up to 50 R/hr. They have 7.5 million times the limit in their seawater and 1.1 million times the limit for Cs-137. No mention yet on Sr-90.

[Sun Dog]

Finally an upside to lactose intolerance:


(Little Rock, AR) -- Radioactive material released from the Fukushima Dia-ichi nuclear plant in Japan has been found in samples of milk taken in Arkansas.


The Arkansas Department of Health says that the levels are very low and not a cause for alarm.


"We know that people are concerned, but these levels are very low and pose no threat to our health. Arkansas milk is safe to drink," says William Mason, the ADH branch chief for Preparedness and Response.


According to the FDA, protective action is not necessary until the level of iodine-131 reaches 4,600 picoCuries per liter.


The EPA tested the milk and reports that it showed a level of 8.9 picoCuries per liter, which is 400 times lower than the level needed to cause concern.


Mason goes on to say that "we are continuing to monitor the situation carefully, working with our partners in the EPA."


(Courtesy: Fox16.com)

[Brett LaVigne]

We are no longer seeing I-131 in our air samples here in Northern CA.

The problem with all of this is that we have the ability to look for atoms (E -14). Because the MDA is so freaking low, we can't just say <MDA. Once you make results available to the public that don't say <MDA, they don't understand anything else...they just get freaked out that we can see anything at all.

I went on a small campaign to enlighten non-nuke folks about the misinformation the media was spreading. It was received very well by many, but I was also called a "Liar for the industry" many times by others. It is shamefull how the media has handled all of this.

[mack70]

Got a company notice today that "Japanese I131" has been detected at all our our sites. That is Ohio and PA. I like the term "Japanese I131."

So it has a different spectrum on the MCA than regular I131?