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NukeLuke

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De-Nuked. Options?
« on: Jun 04, 2011, 11:12 »
My fiance made an error. TO the best of my understanding he followed an order too easily and made his mistake. He was not sent to Mast, BUT they de-nuked him with the option to re-class as something else. He has one year left and at the end of that it will have been 6 years. He is/was an EM. We are now weighing our options, and deciding if its best for him to re-up (Something I am NOT for, but will go along with if necessary) and do something else, or having him get out at the end of his contract as we'd always planned.

I am strongly in favor of getting out, but both of us are apprehensive about the job market. Does being de-nuked matter? Does it make all his experience irrelevant so that the plants or energy companies wouldnt want him? Please advise. Any help appreciated.

Offline Higgs

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 04, 2011, 11:48 »
No, his experience isn't irrelevant, but the fact of the matter is he'd be competing with nukes that weren't denuked and college grads. Ask yourself this..., if you were a hiring manager, who would you pick?

That is not to say he shouldn't try.

Good luck.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2011, 11:54 by TheHiggs »
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NukeLuke

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 05, 2011, 12:36 »
No, his experience isn't irrelevant, but the fact of the matter is he'd be competing with nukes that weren't denuked and college grads. Ask yourself this..., if you were a hiring manager, who would you pick?

That is not to say he shouldn't try.

Good luck.

Justin

Well, he does have his GI bill where he could go back to school for it...I am simply nervous about his finding a job in the meantime when he gets out, as is he...He's out in the middle of the ocean right now, so Im doing a little feeler work.  :)  So do you think he should stay in then?

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 05, 2011, 12:48 »
I can't answer that because that is between you and him. He simply has to apply and see what happens. There was another kid around here that got released from the Navy early due to "medical" issues, and he got a job. So anything is possible.

Justin
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2011, 12:49 by TheHiggs »
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Offline jams723

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 05, 2011, 09:40 »
My fiance made an error. TO the best of my understanding he followed an order too easily and made his mistake. He was not sent to Mast, BUT they de-nuked him with the option to re-class as something else. He has one year left and at the end of that it will have been 6 years. He is/was an EM. We are now weighing our options, and deciding if its best for him to re-up (Something I am NOT for, but will go along with if necessary) and do something else, or having him get out at the end of his contract as we'd always planned.

I am strongly in favor of getting out, but both of us are apprehensive about the job market. Does being de-nuked matter? Does it make all his experience irrelevant so that the plants or energy companies wouldnt want him? Please advise. Any help appreciated.

It does not make his experience irrelevant, but the reason he got his nuclear NEC removed would be looked at closely if he tries to go commercial nuclear. He has his electrical training so why would he need to be reclassified? He would have the option to be a conventional electrician.

HeavyD

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 05, 2011, 12:33 »
The reason for his having to cross rate is pretty simple right now.  All the conventional engineering rates are either at or above manning.  With the currently changing environment within the Navy, getting to convert, especially as a first term sailor, are slim, at best.

I can say that in the last year aboard my carrier, we have had about a half dozen sailors get denuked.  Of them, zero have been approved for conversion and were admin separated within 10 working days of the receipt of their disapproval message.  Now having said that, it is NOT meant to scare or stress you (which it will anyway).  It is simply the truth.  If he is denied in his request to convert, it doesn't matter how much time he was supposed to have left.  And yes, that is an absolutely crappy and scary scenario to be staring at.

Totally understand that this is not the kind of thing that you would want to hear, but it is 100% the truth.  The economy has pushed retention through the roof and the Navy, like all other government agencies, is looking to make cuts.  9,000 of them in the next 6-9 months to be exact.

Get a resume, be honest about what happened and try to learn from it going forward with his life, that is the most sound advice I could offer.  Best of luck to both of you.

(20 in December for me)

drayer54

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 05, 2011, 12:57 »
The reason for his having to cross rate is pretty simple right now.  All the conventional engineering rates are either at or above manning.  With the currently changing environment within the Navy, getting to convert, especially as a first term sailor, are slim, at best.

I can say that in the last year aboard my carrier, we have had about a half dozen sailors get denuked.  Of them, zero have been approved for conversion and were admin separated within 10 working days of the receipt of their disapproval message.  Now having said that, it is NOT meant to scare or stress you (which it will anyway).  It is simply the truth.  If he is denied in his request to convert, it doesn't matter how much time he was supposed to have left.  And yes, that is an absolutely crappy and scary scenario to be staring at.

Totally understand that this is not the kind of thing that you would want to hear, but it is 100% the truth.  The economy has pushed retention through the roof and the Navy, like all other government agencies, is looking to make cuts.  9,000 of them in the next 6-9 months to be exact.

Get a resume, be honest about what happened and try to learn from it going forward with his life, that is the most sound advice I could offer.  Best of luck to both of you.

(20 in December for me)


The above is good advice, also it might be best to plan on that GI BILL and get him back in the classroom for a future career. Have a plan ready, I wouldn't plan on them letting you cross rate.

Good Luck!

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 05, 2011, 11:56 »
It does not make his experience irrelevant, but the reason he got his nuclear NEC removed would be looked at closely if he tries to go commercial nuclear. He has his electrical training so why would he need to be reclassified? He would have the option to be a conventional electrician.

Sorry.  But, um... no.

If at some point during the interview someone asks you "why did you lose your NEC?" then you tell the truth. (Current NEC at time of separation will appear on the DD-214.  It will probably be 0000/0000 or some other non-nuclear NEC.  And the interviewer from HR might notice it - assuming that he even knows what NEC stands for.  The person who actually hires you may never even see that document.)  Have a good answer prepared.  But, unless the interviewer actually asks that question, you don't need to volunteer it.  The odds of the question coming up if you don't bring it up are close to zero.  If it comes up, it will be asked and answered.  "Looked at closely" is not in the picture.  The (correct) assumption will be that the Navy took appropriate action and looked as closely as anyone should ever need to look into your conduct while on active duty.  In light of the absence of NJP, it won't appear to be a very serious matter.

I'm not advocating anarchy here, but you guys need to get a grip on reality.  That "permanent record that will follow you for the rest of your life" was a myth in grammar school and your ESL is about the same.  It means not at damned thing to anyone outside the Navy.  The ugly truth is that the Navy can totally screw with you up to and including 2359 local time on the date of your discharge.  Precisely one minute later, they have absolutely no control over your destiny.
Here is a dirty little secret.  The Navy (not even the nuclear Navy) can not un-ring a bell.  Once you have graduated a school, achieved a qualification, and held an NEC, you are entitled to say so on your resume.  You need not say that at some subsequent point in time, you were no longer qualified.
A civilian employer is going to look at your DD-214 for the word "honorable".  If that is there, they stop looking at it.

By the way, a qualified Electrician can make pretty good money without ever setting foot on a nuke site.
There are over 13,000 generating units in the United States.  About half of those require operators.  All of them require maintenance of some kind.  About 100 of those are nukes.  There are millions and millions of circuit breakers in places that you drive by every day.  Those need to be maintained too.
So, the list of options doesn't get narrowed very much by loss of a nuclear NEC.

The job market is rough out here though, and I don't recommend entering it at this point as long as there is still a paycheck to be had from the Navy.  But, if the option is removed, write a good resume and interview well.  Consider all the possibilities.  The IBEW hall can put an EM to work with little or no apprenticeship - if they have work (like I said, it's rough out here).

Best of luck, and thanks for serving.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2011, 12:01 by Already Gone »
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Content1

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 06, 2011, 12:50 »
Whatever he did, say if it was something like pot use, people make mistakes but they can recover, even if not in the Navy and knowledge is still in his head and he can built on it.   If he learned from his mistake and made no others like it, people who hire can see people who can redeem themselves can be good workers too.  If he has the GI bill, use education to go where you need to.

NukeLuke

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 06, 2011, 12:57 »
If at some point during the interview someone asks you "why did you lose your NEC?" then you tell the truth. (Current NEC at time of separation will appear on the DD-214.  It will probably be 0000/0000 or some other non-nuclear NEC.  And the interviewer from HR might notice it - assuming that he even knows what NEC stands for.  The person who actually hires you may never even see that document.)  Have a good answer prepared.  But, unless the interviewer actually asks that question, you don't need to volunteer it.  The odds of the question coming up if you don't bring it up are close to zero.  If it comes up, it will be asked and answered.  "Looked at closely" is not in the picture.  The (correct) assumption will be that the Navy took appropriate action and looked as closely as anyone should ever need to look into your conduct while on active duty.  In light of the absence of NJP, it won't appear to be a very serious matter.

I'm not advocating anarchy here, but you guys need to get a grip on reality.  That "permanent record that will follow you for the rest of your life" was a myth in grammar school and your ESL is about the same.  It means not at damned thing to anyone outside the Navy.  The ugly truth is that the Navy can totally screw with you up to and including 2359 local time on the date of your discharge.  Precisely one minute later, they have absolutely no control over your destiny.
Here is a dirty little secret.  The Navy (not even the nuclear Navy) can not un-ring a bell.  Once you have graduated a school, achieved a qualification, and held an NEC, you are entitled to say so on your resume.  You need not say that at some subsequent point in time, you were no longer qualified.
A civilian employer is going to look at your DD-214 for the word "honorable".  If that is there, they stop looking at it.

By the way, a qualified Electrician can make pretty good money without ever setting foot on a nuke site.
There are over 13,000 generating units in the United States.  About half of those require operators.  All of them require maintenance of some kind.  About 100 of those are nukes.  There are millions and millions of circuit breakers in places that you drive by every day.  Those need to be maintained too.
So, the list of options doesn't get narrowed very much by loss of a nuclear NEC.

The job market is rough out here though, and I don't recommend entering it at this point as long as there is still a paycheck to be had from the Navy.  But, if the option is removed, write a good resume and interview well.  Consider all the possibilities.  The IBEW hall can put an EM to work with little or no apprenticeship - if they have work (like I said, it's rough out here).

Best of luck, and thanks for serving.


Thank you so much for your answers...for everyones replies. I appreciate it, and this helps me see which direction we may or may not want to take. He seems reluctant to go back to college...I think that will be something we have to discuss further...I'll have a Come to Jesus meeting with him should the need arise. Keep the feedback coming. I know he'll get an HOnorable Discarge, there was definately no drug use involved at all or anything remotely like that. He just followed an order without doing the Nuke thing...which is usually being stubborn/questioning it. We have a family friend that is a higher up in the Nuclear industry here, and she has advised me to tell him to get out and do the shcool thing as well. We shall see. But again, more feedback is most appreciated! :)

Offline fiveeleven

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 06, 2011, 05:45 »
In simple terms - If there is any doubt, get out. Sounds like he got caught up in some typical Navy b/s, although I have learned in life to always entertain both sides of a scenario prior to reaching a conclusion.I did also learn in my 6 yrs. that the Navy can make your life and even your familys life pure misery even if the initial act that got you to the situation you are in was on them. Case in point- a certain sailor on a certain battleship -  who I wont mention his name or vessel to avoid the censor Nazis,(GC) was labeled a homosexual by the Navy because they would not admit that ramming too many powder bags into the breech of a 16 '' gun will cause it to blow up the entire turret and all the swabbies in it. I think 10 years or so, and I'm sure a few lawyer bucks later, they finally admitted the fabrication of the homosexual stuff to the family of the deceased sailor.If the previous post is true and the Navy is looking to trim the ranks - get out as soon as possible, a rosy future for a de-nuked nuke in the world of conventional, will not be a joyous time. The job market out here may not be the greatest, but I am saying that an Electrician with Navy nuke training will get a job somewhere. Dont focus just on the nuclear industry because unlike some speciality rates, a qualified electrician has many options. In closing, if the Navy gives you the harpoon once - then so be it. If you allow them to light off another one,this time with maybe less friction reduction material applied - it more than likely will be more painful than the first one. My advice - get out of the Navy as soon as you can. Hopefully my opinion wont raise the ire of any lifer moderators who will edit or delete my post. Good luck to you - and once again - set yourselves free ASAP.   MM2/ELT USS NIMITZ CVN-68 1980-84  BOHICA
« Last Edit: Jun 07, 2011, 04:44 by fiveeleven »

Offline Higgs

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 06, 2011, 07:37 »
Sorry.  But, um... no.

If at some point during the interview someone asks you "why did you lose your NEC?" then you tell the truth. (Current NEC at time of separation will appear on the DD-214.  It will probably be 0000/0000 or some other non-nuclear NEC.  And the interviewer from HR might notice it - assuming that he even knows what NEC stands for.  The person who actually hires you may never even see that document.)  Have a good answer prepared.  But, unless the interviewer actually asks that question, you don't need to volunteer it.  The odds of the question coming up if you don't bring it up are close to zero.  If it comes up, it will be asked and answered.  "Looked at closely" is not in the picture.  The (correct) assumption will be that the Navy took appropriate action and looked as closely as anyone should ever need to look into your conduct while on active duty.  In light of the absence of NJP, it won't appear to be a very serious matter.

I'm not advocating anarchy here, but you guys need to get a grip on reality.  That "permanent record that will follow you for the rest of your life" was a myth in grammar school and your ESL is about the same.  It means not at damned thing to anyone outside the Navy.  The ugly truth is that the Navy can totally screw with you up to and including 2359 local time on the date of your discharge.  Precisely one minute later, they have absolutely no control over your destiny.
Here is a dirty little secret.  The Navy (not even the nuclear Navy) can not un-ring a bell.  Once you have graduated a school, achieved a qualification, and held an NEC, you are entitled to say so on your resume.  You need not say that at some subsequent point in time, you were no longer qualified.
A civilian employer is going to look at your DD-214 for the word "honorable".  If that is there, they stop looking at it.

By the way, a qualified Electrician can make pretty good money without ever setting foot on a nuke site.
There are over 13,000 generating units in the United States.  About half of those require operators.  All of them require maintenance of some kind.  About 100 of those are nukes.  There are millions and millions of circuit breakers in places that you drive by every day.  Those need to be maintained too.
So, the list of options doesn't get narrowed very much by loss of a nuclear NEC.

The job market is rough out here though, and I don't recommend entering it at this point as long as there is still a paycheck to be had from the Navy.  But, if the option is removed, write a good resume and interview well.  Consider all the possibilities.  The IBEW hall can put an EM to work with little or no apprenticeship - if they have work (like I said, it's rough out here).

Best of luck, and thanks for serving.


Not sure how many operator interviews you've performed, but he would get asked, and then passed over..., most likely. I've seen it 5 times thus far. And I am not sure how unknowledgable your HR department is, but ours certainly does know how to decipher a DD214..., but it isn't HR I would worry about. Fact is, ops departments all over the nuclear fleet aren't looking for just your standard 6 and outer anymore..., much less a 5 or 4 and outer.

The rest of your advice... might apply to the rest of the world, but I don't know anything about that.

« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2011, 07:43 by TheHiggs »
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 06, 2011, 10:38 »
Not sure how many operator interviews you've performed, but he would get asked, and then passed over..., most likely. I've seen it 5 times thus far. And I am not sure how unknowledgable your HR department is, but ours certainly does know how to decipher a DD214..., but it isn't HR I would worry about. Fact is, ops departments all over the nuclear fleet aren't looking for just your standard 6 and outer anymore..., much less a 5 or 4 and outer.

The rest of your advice... might apply to the rest of the world, but I don't know anything about that.



Why does every operator on this site assume that every Navy nuke wants to be an operator at a civilian nuke?
There are so many other jobs available to these people that it makes almost no sense for them to compete for so few available operator jobs that are so difficult to get and keep.

As someone just pointed out, a Navy nuke Electrician is going to get a job somewhere.  And in most cases it will NOT be because he was a Navy nuke, but because of the attributes that a person must have in order to become a Navy nuke.  If you can qualify once in the nuclear Navy, you can learn just about any job and succeed at it.  And ONLY those who never made the mental transition out of the Navy will actually care about whatever it is that happened here.  While it is good to maintain the professionalism, dedication, demeanor, and discipline that you learned in the Navy, you also have to accept that your mind was discharged at the same time they discharged your body.
Out here, it is about BUSINESS, and business is about MONEY.  You make decisions out here based on getting the best value for your money.  There is no place in business for prejudice or holding a grudge - which is exactly what you are doing if you hold a person accountable for a transgression which was 1) not against you and 2) not bad enough that the aggrieved party considered it worth disciplinary action.

I think that this is more informative to NukeLuke than anything else.
What appears to have happened here is that your fiance did some dumb thing because he was told to do it by a Chief or Officer and he did it without question or without challenging the wisdom of the ordered action.
(stop me as soon as I go off the beam)
In my time that would have dis-qualified him, but they wouldn't have taken away his nuclear NEC.  They would have just made him go through a remedial re-qualification.  It seems that these days they just give you the boot.
But it is so so so so worthy of note that there was no NJP.  Hmmmmm!  Could that perhaps be because a Captain's Mast would make the officer look worse for giving the order?  Is maybe somebody covering some fleshy part of his anatomy here?  De-nuke him and the problem goes away with him, eh? 
Well, the same EXACT type of people as those who are french frying him for this are the ones who are operating the civilian nukes.  Blind as they are to their own manifold faults and weaknesses, they will tolerate none from an applicant.  Take this into account when job hunting.
"Fact is, ops departments all over the nuclear fleet aren't looking for just your standard 6 and outer anymore..., much less a 5 or 4 and outer."
See?  They are bringing that Navy mentality with them.  There is nothing that an additional 2, 4, 6 years in the Navy can give an applicant that will make him a better civilian operator, yet they seem to be looking for the guys who spent a longer time doing the same irrelevant crap than one enlistment's worth.
I can't imagine why anyone would want that job.
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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 06, 2011, 10:51 »
Why does every operator on this site assume that every Navy nuke wants to be an operator at a civilian nuke?
There are so many other jobs available to these people that it makes almost no sense for them to compete for so few available operator jobs that are so difficult to get and keep.

As someone just pointed out, a Navy nuke Electrician is going to get a job somewhere.  And in most cases it will NOT be because he was a Navy nuke, but because of the attributes that a person must have in order to become a Navy nuke.  If you can qualify once in the nuclear Navy, you can learn just about any job and succeed at it.  And ONLY those who never made the mental transition out of the Navy will actually care about whatever it is that happened here.  While it is good to maintain the professionalism, dedication, demeanor, and discipline that you learned in the Navy, you also have to accept that your mind was discharged at the same time they discharged your body.
Out here, it is about BUSINESS, and business is about MONEY.  You make decisions out here based on getting the best value for your money.  There is no place in business for prejudice or holding a grudge - which is exactly what you are doing if you hold a person accountable for a transgression which was 1) not against you and 2) not bad enough that the aggrieved party considered it worth disciplinary action.

I think that this is more informative to NukeLuke than anything else.
What appears to have happened here is that your fiance did some dumb thing because he was told to do it by a Chief or Officer and he did it without question or without challenging the wisdom of the ordered action.
(stop me as soon as I go off the beam)
In my time that would have dis-qualified him, but they wouldn't have taken away his nuclear NEC.  They would have just made him go through a remedial re-qualification.  It seems that these days they just give you the boot.
But it is so so so so worthy of note that there was no NJP.  Hmmmmm!  Could that perhaps be because a Captain's Mast would make the officer look worse for giving the order?  Is maybe somebody covering some fleshy part of his anatomy here?  De-nuke him and the problem goes away with him, eh?  
Well, the same EXACT type of people as those who are french frying him for this are the ones who are operating the civilian nukes.  Blind as they are to their own manifold faults and weaknesses, they will tolerate none from an applicant.  Take this into account when job hunting.
"Fact is, ops departments all over the nuclear fleet aren't looking for just your standard 6 and outer anymore..., much less a 5 or 4 and outer."
See?  They are bringing that Navy mentality with them.  There is nothing that an additional 2, 4, 6 years in the Navy can give an applicant that will make him a better civilian operator, yet they seem to be looking for the guys who spent a longer time doing the same irrelevant crap than one enlistment's worth.
I can't imagine why anyone would want that job.

I stopped reading past your first paragraph, because I am going to assume that like 95% of your posts, the rest is irrelevant to me and full of half truths and/or outright lies.

I didn't assume anything.

I merely answered her questions based on my expertise..., and I admitted that beyond that, I didn't know anything else.

That is something you should come to grips with reality on..., that being that you don't know everything.

Justin

PS This thread resides in the nuclear operator forum which is described as "Talk about Reactor operator (RO/SRO), Aux Operator (AO) and non licensed operator (NLO) jobs." Just sayin.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2011, 10:56 by TheHiggs »
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Offline DDMurray

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #14 on: Jun 06, 2011, 11:12 »
Why does every operator on this site assume that every Navy nuke wants to be an operator at a civilian nuke?
Because OPs people know think they're the best and naturally assume that anyone visiting Nukeworker.com would want to be the best.

WRT to the rest of this thread, IMHO there is more to the story than a one-time, "just following orders," so that any advice I'd have to offer would be based on inaccurate information. 
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Offline Already Gone

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #15 on: Jun 06, 2011, 11:32 »
I stopped reading past your first paragraph, because I am going to assume that like 95% of your posts, the rest is irrelevant to me and full of half truths and/or outright lies.

I didn't assume anything.

I merely answered her questions based on my expertise..., and I admitted that beyond that, I didn't know anything else.

That is something you should come to grips with reality on..., that being that you don't know everything.

Justin

PS This thread resides in the nuclear operator forum which is described as "Talk about Reactor operator (RO/SRO), Aux Operator (AO) and non licensed operator (NLO) jobs." Just sayin.

If you can call me a liar, I can call you an arrogant ass.  You are the one who needs tot get a grip on reality. You got hired a couple of times by a nuke plant.  That doesn't come under the definition of "expertise".
You do NOT know what will or will not disqualify this guy from employment.  You have probably held two or three jobs in the civilian nuclear industry.  You probably have NEVER hired another person in your life.  Yet, you are pretty quick to offer BS about what the "fleet" is or is not looking for and how they are going to decide on this guys qualifications.
They aren't going to look at this guy's service record.
The only way they are going to know that he was de-nuked is if he tells them.
Given the uneven number of years of service, they are very likely to ask why he got out early.  He should tell the truth.  But you are not in any position to say how they will respond to that truth considering that you don't personally know every hiring manager in every nuclear plant in every commercial "fleet".

My advice still stands.  Avoid the civilian nukes.  Their egos are so huge there isn't room in the plant for anything else.  Take your training and use it where you can get a job without having to relive the Navy experience for the rest of your life.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2011, 12:00 by Nuclear NASCAR »
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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 06, 2011, 11:39 »
My fiance made an error. TO the best of my understanding he followed an order too easily and made his mistake. He was not sent to Mast, BUT they de-nuked him with the option to re-class as something else. He has one year left and at the end of that it will have been 6 years. He is/was an EM. We are now weighing our options, and deciding if its best for him to re-up (Something I am NOT for, but will go along with if necessary) and do something else, or having him get out at the end of his contract as we'd always planned.

I am strongly in favor of getting out, but both of us are apprehensive about the job market. Does being de-nuked matter? Does it make all his experience irrelevant so that the plants or energy companies wouldnt want him? Please advise. Any help appreciated.

Well, you've seen all the differing advice so far, so I'll be short.

More and more plants are moving away from hiring ex-navy nukes.  There is a shread of truth with all the statments here already.  A lot of 6 and outers still get hired though.

In fact we just hired (in the last year) a future SO/AUO/NLO/etc (non-licensed) operator that is in training who had a DUI 2 years prior to his hiring date.

So, it seems that the answer is "It Depends".



The terms and conditions associated with this post may or may not be very accurate because I get all of my information through a filtered source.

Sun Dog

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 06, 2011, 12:03 »

There is nothing that an additional 2, 4, 6 years in the Navy can give an applicant that will make him a better civilian operator


Perhaps if the 2, 4, or 6 additional years were compiled after fulfilling the original contract it may not mean a lot (other than: time in grade = experience = asset).  But, doesn't a discharge prior to the end of the contract indicate an inability or unwillingness to fulfill a commitment?  That, should raise the eyebrows of a potential employer whether the early separation comes with an explanation or not.  In a tight job market raised eyebrows is not a positive sign.

NukeLuke

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 06, 2011, 12:12 »
Your attempts on his behalf are commendable.

I'll assume he has a full plate, still, he seems to have enough down time to get you involved, drop him a line and suggest to him that he register a user name at this site and PM some of the users here for help and advice.

PM's are better than threads for some discussions.

Folks here can help him via PM more directly and with better appreciation for his situation than can be accomplished through a go-between.

And yes, sometimes in the Navy bad things happen to good people, reference Edward L. Beach and the USS Memphis CA-10.

Best of luck to both of you,.... 8)

Thank you. HOwever...he didnt actively get me involved. I am by nature theplanner in our relationship...it bothers me NOT to have a plan or idea of where to go.So when this came up,I began asking around. Quite frankly I dont wanna be a Navy wife...being stuck on those bases for months at a time withall those crazy women isnt my cup of tea...So Im looking at our options. :)Im not even sure if his email abord the ship will change, so getting ahold of him aboard ship for me is a challenge. Ive been having to use the 'grapevine' via other Nucs I am friends with down there. Once his ship reaches a port though, I will send him a copy of this page so he can see it with his own eyes.

Because OPs people know think they're the best and naturally assume that anyone visiting Nukeworker.com would want to be the best.

WRT to the rest of this thread, IMHO there is more to the story than a one-time, "just following orders," so that any advice I'd have to offer would be based on inaccurate information.  

Since I am a civilian, there are things he cannot tell me. He cannot tell me what kind of machine it was, or a heck of a lot of details because it involves RE procedures Im not allowed to know.


drayer54

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 06, 2011, 12:24 »
Because OPs people know think they're the best and naturally assume that anyone visiting Nukeworker.com would want to be the best
Our "regal" attitude probably comes from the fact that submariners typically feel we are superior to our surface counterparts.  The fact that we are is immaterial.  The attitude allows us to excel where others give up.

This guy could dig ditches for a living and they would be the best damn ditches out there!

@ the caring wife,

This separation process will probably be a lengthy one and you should have plenty of time to get a plan. Except for the late-great- :P Charlie Murphy, I never saw anyone get out fast for anything like this. He should have plenty of time to get a resume together and work with you to develop a plan. Use this time to save up for any time that he isn't working and just prepare yourself for the transition. He can find work somewhere and you'll be fine in the long run. This whole thing probably has him stressed on the boat so being supportive for him is probably what he wants now. Don't feel like you need to be running a 40 yard dash to a new job.
If you go to www.indeed.com and type in navy electrician, you'll find some options outside of nuke plants. This site has a pretty decent job forum as well for the nuclear stuff. These guys can argue all day over how the HR will look at him, but it's going to vary by job and location and there is no point stressing the hypothetical situations right now. Just do what you can to prepare and make his life easier right now.

Good Luck to you,

Derek

Offline jams723

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 06, 2011, 12:49 »
AG, my point is it probably will come up. Especially if there are any former Navy Nucs in on the interview. Would HR catch it, no, would someone doing the Ops interview catch it... There is a high probability. Of course this is just my opinion from 24 years in nuclear power with three different utilities.. And yes I was a NLO, RO and SRO and  Navy nuc electrician.

I was answering the question from a nuc ops point of view. If he was applying for an electrical non-nuc job he would still need to explain a NEC code of 0000. After all, you have to be able to verify training.

Sorry.  But, um... no.

If at some point during the interview someone asks you "why did you lose your NEC?" then you tell the truth. (Current NEC at time of separation will appear on the DD-214.  It will probably be 0000/0000 or some other non-nuclear NEC.  And the interviewer from HR might notice it - assuming that he even knows what NEC stands for.  The person who actually hires you may never even see that document.)  Have a good answer prepared.  But, unless the interviewer actually asks that question, you don't need to volunteer it.  The odds of the question coming up if you don't bring it up are close to zero.  If it comes up, it will be asked and answered.  "Looked at closely" is not in the picture.  The (correct) assumption will be that the Navy took appropriate action and looked as closely as anyone should ever need to look into your conduct while on active duty.  In light of the absence of NJP, it won't appear to be a very serious matter.

I'm not advocating anarchy here, but you guys need to get a grip on reality.  That "permanent record that will follow you for the rest of your life" was a myth in grammar school and your ESL is about the same.  It means not at damned thing to anyone outside the Navy.  The ugly truth is that the Navy can totally screw with you up to and including 2359 local time on the date of your discharge.  Precisely one minute later, they have absolutely no control over your destiny.
Here is a dirty little secret.  The Navy (not even the nuclear Navy) can not un-ring a bell.  Once you have graduated a school, achieved a qualification, and held an NEC, you are entitled to say so on your resume.  You need not say that at some subsequent point in time, you were no longer qualified.
A civilian employer is going to look at your DD-214 for the word "honorable".  If that is there, they stop looking at it.

By the way, a qualified Electrician can make pretty good money without ever setting foot on a nuke site.
There are over 13,000 generating units in the United States.  About half of those require operators.  All of them require maintenance of some kind.  About 100 of those are nukes.  There are millions and millions of circuit breakers in places that you drive by every day.  Those need to be maintained too.
So, the list of options doesn't get narrowed very much by loss of a nuclear NEC.

The job market is rough out here though, and I don't recommend entering it at this point as long as there is still a paycheck to be had from the Navy.  But, if the option is removed, write a good resume and interview well.  Consider all the possibilities.  The IBEW hall can put an EM to work with little or no apprenticeship - if they have work (like I said, it's rough out here).

Best of luck, and thanks for serving.


Offline Higgs

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 06, 2011, 01:33 »
Perhaps if the 2, 4, or 6 additional years were compiled after fulfilling the original contract it may not mean a lot (other than: time in grade = experience = asset).  But, doesn't a discharge prior to the end of the contract indicate an inability or unwillingness to fulfill a commitment?  That, should raise the eyebrows of a potential employer whether the early separation comes with an explanation or not.  In a tight job market raised eyebrows is not a positive sign.

And it does. Some people get lucky, but for the most part, I wouldn't bank on it.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 06, 2011, 01:40 »
No it does not.  Would you consider broadzilla unable to "fulfill a commitment"? Scenarios DO matter here.

Yes it does, or at least can..., depending on an interview board make up. Comparing BZ's past to the current situation is apples and oranges. In fact, comparing your experience to this guys situation is apples and oranges.

The fact is, he will have less than a full contract because he did something wrong, something HE was in control of..., regardless of who he blames for the order. Getting out because of medical, something YOU can't control, isn't the same. There is only so many things one can do wrong to get denuked, and none of them are pretty.

And he will have to answer for that.

Justin

PS, I agree his "full and true" story will determine what happens, but based on just being "denuked," I am saying he will be less competative to commercial nuclear power operations, and he will. Since this thread is in NUKE OPS, I don't want to appear arrogant and assume that is what he was going for, so I will agree with everyone that says if he goes anywhere else..., it won't matter. Nuke ops though, it most certainly will.
« Last Edit: Jun 06, 2011, 01:46 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline DDMurray

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 06, 2011, 02:35 »
This guy could dig ditches for a living and they would be the best damn ditches out there!

That's correct.   I was raised that any job worth doing is worth doing right.

"When doing a job — any job — one must feel that he owns it, and act as though he will remain in that job forever. He must look after his work just as conscientiously, as though it were his own business and his own money. If he feels he is only a temporary custodian, or that the job is just a stepping stone to a higher position, his actions will not take into account the long-term interests of the organization. His lack of commitment to the present job will be perceived by those who work for him, and they, likewise, will tend not to care. Too many spend their entire working lives looking for the next job. When one feels he owns his present job and acts that way, he need have no concern about his next job."   -Rickover
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Fermi2

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Re: De-Nuked. Options?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 06, 2011, 03:25 »
My highly tuned Make Crap Up senses indicate less than full disclosure here.

Also, I did finish my first Enlistment. I was discharged in my second enlistment due to injuries which made me undesirable for the Navy Nuclear program.

Also, YES I would anticipate anyone coming to NUKEWORKER wants a job in the NUKE field. So Higgs is correct, I see no need to jump on him for displaying a jaundiced eye. In my opinion someone who can

1: Get hired as an Instant SRO

2: Get his license then get hired at another type of plant for an SRO license


Knows a HELL of a lot about how the industry works and what makes a person employable. In both cases he competed against probably over 200 people for his position and still got a job. Makes him pretty damn knowledgeable and worthy of any ego he displays.



 


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