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yayarea

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Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« on: Jun 21, 2011, 05:29 »
Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster. I had a couple of questions regarding quals and secondary necs, but first I apologize if this was the wrong place to post this! This is actually my first time posting anything on any forum, so again, I apologize.

I had actually spent hours sifting through the site prior to signing my contract and I'm excited to be leaving soon. I'm a depper right now and I've been trying to do as much research as I can about how things work in the Navy (and Nukeworker has helped immensely!), but I still have a couple of lingering questions.

My first question was regarding the aviation warfare quals on a carrier. I had spoken to someone before about quals and he had mentioned aviation warfare; I was wondering if getting air qualified was a possibility for nucs going in at all. The same guy told me that getting qualified would look good, even better if dual warfare qualified. (The guy wasn't a nuc, but he hadn't known how it would be for nucs, so I come to you guys!)

As for my second question, I was wondering what other secondary NECs a Nuc can carry. I had searched for this one, as well as my former question, but I could not find anything. I read that sub Nucs could be divers; I also read some Nucs could carry secondary NECs for being able to operate some special equipment. What other NECs are Nucs able to shoot for?

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 21, 2011, 10:50 »
Yes you can qualify Air... Its encouraged.

As far as secondary NEC's, yes theres more then a few. I had 2. 3385 and 9571. You can get some applicable to nukes, some are not.

edit: The navy changed its regulations with warfare qualifications. You MUST qualify your primary (i.e. surface warfare for you on a carrier) THEN you can qualify air. It looks good on evals.

I was under the impression sub nuke divers were a thing of the past. You CAN still qualify welder though after prototype. I dont remember, does fleet maintenance planner get an NEC? Thats a hefty school...  

If you get dual warfare qualified during your first tour, then I think you didn't spend as much time learning your real job as you could have.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2011, 10:51 by Gamecock »
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drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 21, 2011, 10:58 »
My old ship strongly encouraged people to qualify air warfare. They even tied reactor plant qualifications to air warfare (E5&E6 not given PPWS cards until they had SW/AW) and at times they even made it a requirement for overnight liberty overseas.

I never got the airwarfare pin because of my general lack of tolerance and dislike for those who worked above the main deck, but it is becoming a requirement to be considered in the top tier of your department.

Secondary NEC's are entirely possible, I have one myself from attending Cummins Diesel Tech School, Have I ever used it? No.... Although I did find myself doing diesel maintenance a time or two because our engineman sucked.

The only reason that I went to that diesel school is because I was sitting around on shore duty and went shopping through the catalog for schools and thought it looked fun.

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 21, 2011, 11:06 »
About 20% of it was over my head because I have no diesel experience....

The rest was cool, but I was mainly blown away by the enginemen community and their different approach to things.

I left thinking that I will never use any of this but glad I did it anyways.

I actually would say it was somewhat fun.

Offline a|F

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 21, 2011, 12:20 »
If you get dual warfare qualified during your first tour, then I think you didn't spend as much time learning your real job as you could have.

One of the few times I'd have to disagree with you.  Not knowing the how's and why's of an aircraft carrier's existence was embarrassing to me for a long time.  I can't speak for subs, but there is more than enough time to get any and everything done in 4 years on a carrier, be it SW/AW, PPWS, QA, Safety, degrees, etc, while also still being good at your job.  It's all about time management- here's my golden rule:  STUDY ON WATCH!  I realize that only nuke stuff is allowed, but that frees up a lot of time to persue other things. 

Most nukes chose to isolate themselves in the reactor world and fail to see all the good (and bad) things happening in other departments and areas of the ship.  A lot of this isolation stems from a false sense of entitlement and "greatness" that came with being a nuke which is BS.  Can it be a pain?  Sure, but most people give you a break cause you're already SW and clearly are doing it for your own (and the ship's benefit).  Did I mention how nice it was finally being able to explain the cool stuff when giving tours to family and friends?  And how many new friendships and networks developed? 

As others previously stated, this can fast track an E5 for PPWS quals which could earn you senior supervisory pay and a new NEC.  Who doesn't like more money? 

Offline DockeTT

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 21, 2011, 04:08 »
sub nuke diver still exists, I am one...  you can also get a recruiter NEC which is my third...  I'm sure there are plenty of other ways out there to get more if your really looking to branch out..

Offline Gamecock

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 21, 2011, 06:53 »

If it takes you longer then 2 months to get your warfare pins, you're doing something wrong....


Two months?

Really?

In two months time you can become knowledgeable of all ship's systems?  You could stand-in for the helmsman if all other helmsman on the ship died?  You could look at a chart and determine the relative position of the ship?  You  could look at another ship on the horizon and know what it is, what weapons it carries, etc?

If you can't answer yes to all the above (and many more that I didn't ask) then you didn't earn your pin(s).

When we "required" people to "earn" a warfare pin, we really cheapened what it means and watered down what they need to know.

When I did the refueling on IKE, the CO ws proud of all his IKE warriors.  We had undesignated folks that were dual warfare "Qualified" and had never been underway.  Makes me sick when I think about it.  I guess that's why I was only ever asked to chair a qual board once..... I failed the PO2.
« Last Edit: Jun 21, 2011, 09:33 by Gamecock »
“If the thought police come... we will meet them at the door, respectfully, unflinchingly, willing to die... holding a copy of the sacred Scriptures in one hand and the US Constitution in the other."

Offline 730SMAG

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 21, 2011, 07:18 »
Can the average sailor ever truly become an expert on all systems, while maintaining a full level of competency in their own fields?


I qualified submarines, something I'm reasonably proud of. 

Does this mean that I could trace the entire hydraulic system?  No, but I knew where the key valves were and how to isolate it for damage control.  Does this mean that I can fire a torpedo?  No, but I knew the rough principles behind the system and I could use that to guide my use of a manual to load and fire one.  Could I send off a radio message?  Not without referencing a manual.  Steer the ship?  That I could do, actually, but I'd be damned if I'd ever be as good of a helmsman/planesman as a coner.  Use the sonar system?  By the book only, I'd have no idea what sounds meant what.  Launch a SLBM?  Hah, I don't think I could manage that with the books handy.

On the other hand, it meant that I knew the roles of each watchstation, each system, a rough idea of their function and their criticality to ship operations and safety.  How to fight a casualty, where to go to fight the casualty, etc.  Where a given panel was, where and how far each firehose could run, where the extinguishers were located, all of that sort of thing.  I don't think anyone could truly master every single watchstation and system onboard and maintain proficiency for their actual duties.

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 21, 2011, 07:59 »
First off, thanks for the response guys! I would have never guessed there were so many ways to branch outside of the nuclear field, other than what I had mentioned (diver) as well as ELTs/welders.

go here and enjoy;
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,23196.msg135817.html#msg135817

Aaah, didn't see that, sorry!

I was under the impression sub nuke divers were a thing of the past. You CAN still qualify welder though after prototype. I dont remember, does fleet maintenance planner get an NEC? Thats a hefty school... 

Are MMs able to take that welding school anytime after the pipeline? Would they be able to do it anytime throughout their service after school?

We had undesignated folks that were dual warfare "Qualified" and had never been underway.  Makes me sick when I think about it.  I guess that's why I was only ever asked to chair a qual board once..... I failed the PO2.

 :o How did those undesignated sailors get warfare qualified without being underway?

Also, how would a Nuc go about receiving extra training towards a collateral duty? Is it offered to Nucs? Or can a Nuc who's demonstrated proficiency go and ask someone if they could attend?

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21, 2011, 09:48 »
Yes, sir. I'm definitely looking forward to hopefully being a Nuc, even with the extremely varying experiences that I've read about on this site. Recurring things I keep hearing are "Needs of the Navy", as well as "it is what you make of it." I just plan to make the most of it any way I can.

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #10 on: Jun 21, 2011, 11:25 »
Hate to burst your bubble, but being warfare qualified while I was on the ship meant you had a decent understanding of the ships systems, by NO means an "expert". I learned quite a bit about things I never cared for, but all the same, that warfare pin does NOT make you a "system expert" on anything. Thats why the navy has "NEC's".

To be blunt. Not one person in our department could "man the helm". Thats why we have quartermasters.
I didnt care to understand the myriad of radar detection capabilities, I was more concerned with running my work center. I "didn't earn it" as you say. But if that's the case, then neither did the 1200 people that got their pins during that underway.
I was in your department. I honestly did every practical for ESWS because it got me out of the workday when I was whoa nubly and drove the ship twice from the bridge!

I learned how to handle communications with the conning officer (that right?) and then manned the helm for a good while. A Nuke LDO was standing watch up there and made sure I got my time.

I wanted to learn my stuff for ESWS and did. Most didn't and I remember thinking how big of a joke it was.

I almost got kicked out and even had to step outside for laughing my rear end off at a topsider who tought that the great white fleet was a demonstration of white power. ...... no joke.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #11 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:29 »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #12 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:33 »
PSSSH! I've never seen the helm of a carrier and I'd bet I could do it with out 5 minutes to familiarize myself with the controls.  8)
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #13 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:35 »
Yep, looks simple.  :P

"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #14 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:40 »
Not even close to looking like a Nimitz class helm. It's really easy.

I recall saying " make her course 080 aye sir. Sir, her course is 080 steady as she goes sir"

If you can drive a car in any video game and have the staring ability to feed generators in manual electric control.... You can drive a carrier.

I know that because I did it. Others think it takes a system expert. Have you met a carrier bos'un????

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #15 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:49 »
Not even close to looking like a Nimitz class helm. It's really easy.

I recall saying " make her course 080 aye sir. Sir, her course is 080 steady as she goes sir"

If you can drive a car in any video game and have the staring ability to feed generators in manual electric control.... You can drive a carrier.

I know that because I did it. Others think it takes a system expert. Have you met a carrier bos'un????

Yeah that was what the :P was for. I know it's not a Nimitz helm.

Speaking of video games, incidentally, video game skills are useful in a commercial nuke control room. ;)
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2011, 12:49 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #16 on: Jun 22, 2011, 07:42 »
Sense of humor. You need one.

And...,

Point of warfare quals. You missed it.
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2011, 08:11 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline MMM

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #17 on: Jun 22, 2011, 09:54 »
Back on topic, yes the nuclear planner school does give you a secondary NEC still. I've got 3 secondary NECs, planner, instructor, and whatever I got after Steam Plant Maintenance school 10 years ago.

GC, were you a sub guy? I know dolphins are a lot more in depth than ESWS and EAWS are (not from experience). ESWS should realistically take about 6-12 months, if you honestly do everything and your job as well, and you are not expected to be an expert on everything or able to man the helm if everybody died. EAWS should only take a couple months if you've qualified EAWS on a carrier, as you learn most of it during ESWS, at least that was my experience.

drayer54

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #18 on: Jun 22, 2011, 11:44 »
Back on topic, yes the nuclear planner school does give you a secondary NEC still. I've got 3 secondary NECs, planner, instructor, and whatever I got after Steam Plant Maintenance school 10 years ago.

GC, were you a sub guy? I know dolphins are a lot more in depth than ESWS and EAWS are (not from experience). ESWS should realistically take about 6-12 months, if you honestly do everything and your job as well, and you are not expected to be an expert on everything or able to man the helm if everybody died. EAWS should only take a couple months if you've qualified EAWS on a carrier, as you learn most of it during ESWS, at least that was my experience.
That means they dumbed it down so far (so everyone could do it) that if you learned to the little packet of expectations once, you probably knew it twice.

Offline DockeTT

Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #19 on: Jun 22, 2011, 12:39 »
Oh cool. Do they still offer nuke diver? I was just under the impression they were phasing out welders and divers from the nuke community is all. You sound like you've been in a while, thats why I ask.

I've been in 8 1/2 years...  I'm on my first shore duty as a nuke recruiter right now.  As far as I know, nuke diver still exists, as long as you are in better shape and more qualified than anyone from the cone.  I just left my boat in 2009 and it was still an option then.  On my boat all the divers happened to be nukes actually..

And to yayarea:

As far as getting extra schools and collateral duties, it's all about being fully qualified...  Once your fully qualified, and have proven yourself useful and capable of handling being a nuke and having a collateral duty, you just have to ask.  In addition to being a diver I was also the Command Fitness Leader on my boat.  Thats an extra school and another collateral duty.  I also, like everyone else in the division, had multiple divisional collateral duties.  Get qualified, learn the plant, do your job well, and they will be more than happy to let you go to schools and have extra duties.

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #20 on: Jun 22, 2011, 06:15 »
Thanks DockeTT, and to the rest of the guys as well. Just wondering, was there ever such thing as a triple warfare qualified Nuc? I've heard it was possible, but that sounds nuts.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #21 on: Jun 22, 2011, 06:19 »
Thanks DockeTT, and to the rest of the guys as well. Just wondering, was there ever such thing as a triple warfare qualified Nuc? I've heard it was possible, but that sounds nuts.

I've known quite a few. But if I recall, they don't wear all of them..., something about 2.

Someone in the know, will know about the uniform regs.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

yayarea

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #22 on: Jun 22, 2011, 07:56 »
Wow, that's pretty crazy. If a sailor were to try and do that, they would have to go sub volunteer, right? My boss told me that once a sailor passes the psycho eval/training for subs, it would be extremely hard to get them off a boat due to the commodity they've become. If they DID go subs though, then how would they go about getting the other two pins?

Sorry for all the questions, useless depper over here!  :P
« Last Edit: Jun 22, 2011, 07:57 by yayarea »

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #23 on: Jun 22, 2011, 08:32 »
Wow, that's pretty crazy. If a sailor were to try and do that, they would have to go sub volunteer, right? My boss told me that once a sailor passes the psycho eval/training for subs, it would be extremely hard to get them off a boat due to the commodity they've become. If they DID go subs though, then how would they go about getting the other two pins?

Sorry for all the questions, useless depper over here!  :P

Well, I didn't say it was common, but it is doable. I had a LELT that was on a nuke cruiser, then a GW class boomer, then the Enterprise, the a 688 class submarine. So..., like I said, anything is possible.

I also served with one JO on the boat who started his life out as an enlisted guy on a carrier. He got picked up for LDO and worked ship yards. He road our boat for a while..., so he had all three.

I also had a COB and 1 EDMC. With those things.

Pretty much one common thing was shared among them..., they were lifers+.

Justin
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nucs with Secondary NECS?
« Reply #24 on: Jun 22, 2011, 08:52 »


dolphins =/= surface warfare. You do a couple walkthroughs, do a few prac facs, and people sign your books. You take a test, and do a generic board. I didnt make the system, the system is flawed. As gamecock said, when the navy mandated warfare, it probably took a bunch from it.

Sub guys and officers dont go through the same process surface people do. Sorry? Thats just how it is. At least in "todays navy".  It took me 3 weeks to complete the process they laid out for me. I chose not to get pinned as well.


You can reminisce about the days of old, but that doesnt do a damn thing about how things go on nowadays.


you wear your primary and secondary. A sub person switched to surface would wear dolphins until qualed surface warfare and air warfare. Those become your primary, unless you're a salty master chief and proud of your subwarfare. You wear a max of 2 with your uniform.



Thanks!

And, you've been cheated if you ask me. If it is that cheap to get warfare, that is sad.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

 


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