HELP! Trapped at NNPTC, I want out!

[Wareaglesvf]

Hey,

Well I just got out of boot camp and I'm at NNPTC. While I was at boot camp I saw everybody else got to change their rate, except for the nukes. I was excited about this program, but then it hit me that no this isn't what I want. Well anyway my recruiter told me I could change my rate at boot camp, he didn't tell me that once a nuke always a nuke. But I chose to be an MM. So my idea was to finish A school and try and get as high of a GPA as possible and tell them that I don't want to be in the program anymore. I just want my MGIB benefits, do my 4 years as an MM in the fleet, and get a degree in Physical Therapy. As you can tell the career I want has nothing to do with nuclear propulsion. So could somebody please help me and tell me the route I need to go to accomplish this. I'm not a quitter, but it's just not for me. Thanks for the comments and I hope you guys can help.

[IPREGEN]

Promising  Uncle Sam, six big ones means you will do it. You signed lots of papers making a promise. Try to make the best of it and maybe you'll like it after all. Good Luck.
 

[RP Instructor]

Wareaglesvf:
(By the way, interesting "handle". What's it mean?)

Ipregen has made a valid point. You committed to Uncle Sam's canoe club, so you'd better make the best of it for the time being. Sadly, you've learned a hard lesson early-on in your life: "Don't believe everything you hear" (a reference to the recruiter). May I give you a little insight?
Most nuclear power plants have been renewing their operating licenses for another 20 years, while still having 10 years on their exisitng 30 year license. Given that, once you've done your tour of duty, if you sign on for Operations at one of the nukes, you can very well make a career out of being an operator, progressing from Non-Licensed Operator, to Reactor Operator, to Senior Reactor Operator, with your final  salary being in the upper $70-80K range if not higher. Much better than a Physical Therapist.

[darkmatter]

Hey,

Well I just got out of boot camp and I'm at NNPTC. While I was at boot camp I saw everybody else got to change their rate, except for the nukes. I was excited about this program, but then it hit me that no this isn't what I want. Well anyway my recruiter told me I could change my rate at boot camp, he didn't tell me that once a nuke always a nuke. But I chose to be an MM. So my idea was to finish A school and try and get as high of a GPA as possible and tell them that I don't want to be in the program anymore. I just want my MGIB benefits, do my 4 years as an MM in the fleet, and get a degree in Physical Therapy. As you can tell the career I want has nothing to do with nuclear propulsion. So could somebody please help me and tell me the route I need to go to accomplish this. I'm not a quitter, but it's just not for me. Thanks for the comments and I hope you guys can help.

We don't always get what we want, "whom the Gods wish to destroy, first they grant all their wishes"
I feel your situation. I had two choices ---- wait to get drafted, or join up to get some kind of choice. I went Navy Nuke and ended up a MM in Subs, Fast Attack, ELT. Not what I thought I wanted but seemed the lessor of two evils at the time. Turned out, it worked out for the best---good job when I got out---great fun----got married, got kids---paid for my house, etc. etc. etc.
The adventure hasn't ended yet............

The definition of an adventure is: Some poor sap a long way away having a hard time of it.

[ramdog_1]

you got what you picked live with it , I got a job and did not have to let service make choices for me, I worked my way through life. so when you get done make the most of your life and have fun with what you are doing.
Bubble heads humm( you know what they say)

[Already Gone]

You don't want to turn back now.  You have to do the six either way.  If you quit, flunk out on purpose.. etc., they're going to take away all those free paygrades that you haven't earned and put you in Diego Garcia.  You need to finish the "A" school to ensure that you even get to have a rate.  If you fall out there, you might end up a Botswain's Mate, hanging over the side of an aircraft carrier with a paint brush.

Hey, here's a thought - keep your word, live with the choices you make, and make the best of a damned good opportunity.  Sorry to be the one to tell you, but you're all grown up now.  Act like it.

[Fermi2]

Wow what gall. You come to a forum that's basically a home to many nukes who sucked it up and gutted their way through the program, and you ask advice on how to get out of it because it's "not what you wanted".

To tell you the truth I'm insulted My advice to you is grow up.

SST, 70 to 80 K is a low ball for an SRO position. I've been an SRO since 1997 and in a low year I've made 100K.


Mike

[Nuclear NASCAR]

I'm not going to pile on here, I think the point of living with the choices made has been better said than I can.  Let me give a different tack.  I came to nuclear power by accident 6 years ago and not very happy about it.  I wasn't in the Navy, but I'm thankful for the many who have served, including yourself.  What I've found since getting into it is that it becomes what you make of it, just as your Naval career will do.  The biggest regret I have now is that I didn't make the move 19 years ago when I first had the chance.  Not only would I have more seniority, but I'd also know so much more than I do now about it. 

I believe, like SST, that this industry has quite a future ahead of it.  I'd hate to see you throw away a chance to be part of that now and possibly regret it later.  Even if you change your mind when you get out of the Navy just having been Navy nuke shows any future employer that you have perseverance.  Best of luck, PM me if you have any questions.  I'd be happy to answer them.

[wolf459]

here's a thought, do the best you can at all your schools and while you are serving your time take the courses for what ever you want to do after the Navy. The Navy will pay for your school and you will have a standby career if things go sour in your other career path. I had to leave the nuke industry in 92 and was very glad that I had something to fall back on (diesle mechanic) now I am back as an RCT makeing really good money. There is a reason you made your first choice, just try and look at the positive.

[makua13]

If you dont like the Navy you will hate Nuke Power.  You only have a Cief to answer to now, we have Contract people, Power Plant people, NRC, etc.  You will also have to be a worker and someone who knows how to commit and follow through.  Take my advise, forget nuke and go into politics or some other weenie field.

[20 Years Gone]

   You know, there are ways to get out, and honorably... True... The Navy will not let you transition sideways.  Once a nuke, always a nuke, and nukes need not apply are tried and true sayings in the field..  The way down is fraught with peril.  It's damn hard to get disenrolled due to academics nowadays, which leaves captains mast, etc.  And you don't want to go that way... "Hey Mom, I'm not in school anymore.. I'm in a brig, and when I get out, I'm going to be sent straight to deck gang on an underway destroyer."  No, that really dosen't sound like the path to physical therapy.  Which leaves... Up and out.  Work your ass off in 'A' School.  Be the perfect nuke, student, and sailor.  NEVER let them know you're not delighted to be a nuke and serving your country. (probably too late for that, though)  If you've already spilled the milk, then tell them you changed your mind, and let your performance show them it's so.  Then, when you've proven you're the sharpest pencil in the pack, apply for ROTC or NECP, or whatever seamen to admiral 21 program you think will get you a degree, and out of nuclear power.  Serve the navy as an officer, put in your payback for them sending you to college, honorably, and then do what you love in life.  (It's not all about the money)
   Nuclear Power isn't for everyone... I'll concede that point.  But you gave your word, and if you didn't do your homework before hand, it's now up to you to play well the cards you partially dealt yourself.

   My 2 cents. 

[Melrose]

AMEN, Beer Court!


What he said......

[RCLCPO]

Welcome to the adult world.  If your reasons to apply for the program were genuine, they should still apply--hold yourself to them.

The nuclear power path is along the top of a high mountain ridge.  Stepping off the path at any point leads to a long fall, and nothing pleasant will come from it.  Do your best, stay on the path, reach the end (at 6 years or 30), then move on.

And a hearty "Well Said!" to 20 Years Gone, Fermi2 and Beer Court.

[Roll Tide]

Wareaglesvf:
(By the way, interesting "handle". What's it mean?)

I think I could guess, but I would rather not falsely accuse someone!

WarEagle,
I believe the best choice for you is to go over this mountain. Even if you never work nuke again in your life, it will be better preparation for college than any other thing I can imagine!

[ET3Workman]

Hello all this is my first post on these boards...I happen to come across this site a couple weeks ago and have been reading them off and on ever since. I am on T-Track right now and am set to class up 0407 on Sept. 30. I graduated ET A-School on Aug. 13.

Ok Wareagle, this is my advice, coming from someone who is right down the sidewalk from you maybe this may help you out some. When I first started reading you post it was like I was reading something I would have written myself about 7 months ago. I signed up for nuke, but because I failed to do my homework I found out I wanted CT(not the interpreter one thought)  instead, I tried everything before I left for boot camp to get out of nuke, and when my recruiter told me I couldn't, I said well then I don't know if I want to be in the Navy then. He proceded to tell me that because I had already taken that first oath the day I DEPed in at MEPs that I was in, and I can't get out. He told me that I could probably get my job changed at boot camp....
Believe me if there was a way to get it changed at boot camp, I sure as hell would've found it. I tried just about everything. I explained to the nuke field advisor my dilemia and pleaded, I mean PLEADED, with him to see if there was anything I could do to reclassify. He then proceded to tell me about how if my attitude didn't change then life at NNPTC was going to be very difficult for me, and I could even be punished with disciplinary action.(i.e. spending a month with the Marines in Florida or something like that). Then came the day I left Great Lakes and arrived at Charleston airport...keep in mind that I am still really depressed about being a nuke. We pulled in through the gates on the big white bus. We passed a lake on the left, and then I saw Rickover Center. And it hit me, I had an epiphany(sp?). All of the sudden things didn't seem so bad, I made some of the best friends in my life right here, and there are times that we all hate it here, but you know what? We keep going, because this is the best possible thing I could've done with my life. I am paying my dues now at 19 years old instead of when I older. I take one day at a time, and you wouldn't believe how fast time is going by. I can't believe I'm already starting Power School. Does it suck here a lot? Hell yes, my friends and I complain just about everyday about how pointless T-track is, and how pointless 25-4 study hours are, but we suck it up, and we roll with it. Because even though there are times we hate it here, we keep a good attitude. If you get nothing else out of what anyone says on this board get this: Attitude is everything. The Nuke program is what you make of it, if you want to pass up the best opportunity of your life then go ahead, but I guarantee you that the CO can make life really, really bad for you here if you don't put forth an honest effort, trust me I see those people mustering for a uniform inspection 8 times a day. But if you put forth the effort, keep a good attitude, and for God's sake don't be stupid and get sent to mast for something like underage drinking then TRUST ME you'll begin to like it here. There are so many opportunities, I myself am putting in a package to the Naval Academy, and I'm really hoping I get picked up for it. Funny thing is if I do, then 4 years from now I'll probably be right back here at good ol' NNPTC going through NPS as an Officer(hopefully).

It's not really a bad place man, just give it a chance. If you need someone to talk to I'll try and make myself available so just let me know. Good luck to ya bud!

[jeepgirl1]

I tried everything before I left for boot camp to get out of nuke, and when my recruiter told me I couldn't, I said well then I don't know if I want to be in the Navy then. He proceded to tell me that because I had already taken that first oath the day I DEPed in at MEPs that I was in, and I can't get out.

Your recruiter really said you couldn't get out once you had DEP'd in?  That is sooo not true ... http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/dep.htm.  I got out of Army DEP to enlist in the Navy.  It can be done ... it just takes time.  I can't believe a recruiter would honestly tell someone that  ...

[RP Instructor]

Fermi2: I was trying to make an "educated guess" as to what a "starting"  SRO annual salary would be, never having been one myself! But your point is well made, the potential is there for upwards of $100K per year.
Workguy23 & Wareageslvf: Most everyone who is currently employed in civilian nuclear power, has been so for 20 years or more. We're getting ready to retire. The plants will need replacements for us in order to operate for the next 20 years. You'll be needed in Operations, Radiation Protection, Instrument and Electrical, Chemistry, Emrgency Planning, etc. The plants look for navy nukes for you are trained and disciplined (somewhat harder to do with "johnny-off-the-street" college graduates who is prone to question everything!). "Stay-the-course", for I believe you've made a good career choice for yourself.

[Fermi2]

Workguy, I loved your post my friend. Good luck to you!

Chief, thanks for you comment on my post.

SST it's cool

There is a future in this industry. Most plants are getting 20 Liicense Extensions.
We hire new operators every 18 months

In fact

Go to www.dteenergy.com we have an Operator Bid out right now. We hire Non License Operators in at about 24 or 25 an hour with LOTS of OT after youu qualify.

Mike

[boobcheese]

I've been in 6 years now and felt much the same way you do.  I didn't (and still don't) want to be a nuke.  However realizing that there wasn't a whole lot I could do to change things I studied hard so I could remain on voluntary hours.(i.e. maximizing my time away from things nuclear).  When I got to my first boat I worked hard on my quals and tried to get my work done quickly so that when we were in port I could get the hell off the boat (and maximize my time away from things nuclea)r.  When the STA-21 program came out my hard work paid off and I am now at Auburn University getting paid as an E-6 to go to school and get a degree.  When I'm done I go to flight school in Pensacola to become a naval flight officer.  Two other nukes off my boat got picked up for nurse option which sounds like it might be more to your liking.  The only good way out at this point is to bust your ass and put in a package.  But if you are determined to get out ASAP you can cut one year off your six year obligtion.  At the end of A-School they will have you sign a what is essentially a contract where you agree to give them an extra year in return for them making you an E-4.  Don't sign and your six years as a nuke just got cut down to five.  You will probably be able to make E-4 the first time you take the exam anyway.  Good luck which ever route you take.

[nukeMM1]

Here it is plain and simple. I did not want to be a nuke when I first joined either. I looked for ways out but ultimately it boiled down to the fact that I signed up to do something and I could not let myself fail. Now here I sit, I am a first class, just went over 8 yrs and I am up for chief in Jan. Do I absolutley love this job...not always. Another key point for you is to make it to the fleet before you start crying too hard. There are amazing things you will be able to do and see as a nuke in the fleet...YOU MAY EVEN LIKE IT!!!! Then do as others say, put in an officer package. As many as you can. I will have my degree next june and I am looking at 4 different options. Remember you can apply for any branch too!! Anyhow...suck it up, it will get better. DO NOT QUIT OR FAIL!!!! It looks bad period. Anything else just ask me I have friends who are instructors out there right now.

[shady88]

im currently an em3 at nptu charleston, i went through nnptc, and i actually liked, it kinda sick but i did... in the beginning i hated it, long hours, stupid material, but i busted ass, got on reduced hours and went home everyday at 5pm, scored ~3.6 on tests, even have my name on the honor board on the a-school doorway, look at the top em class (0336M) FN Jeremy S Prater, yeah, how did it get there? my class pulled together as a team and helped each other, i look back and i kinda wish i was back there because we were a team, but im almost out to the fleet to join another team!! Good luck and i hope to see you on a ship! -- Jeremy

[ELTsmag]

I think you will need a serious attitude adjustment before hitting prototype or life is going to really suck while you're there.  I've seen people work 16+ hour days on rotating shiftwork (which IMO makes 25-4's look like childsplay).  Prototype is not anything like NNPTC and is strongly dictated by how well you're liked by the staff.  If you have a bad attitude they are going to make life hard for you, so I suggest what others have suggested above and make the best of it, make them think you love it, and life will be easiest for you.

[damad1]

Chicken wings and beer help also if you happen to bump into staff while out on the town! Atleast it did with the crew I was staff on! Not that we favored people who bought us rounds, but it is always hard to concentrate the next day on a checkout when hung over!

[rj21live]

I think a good majority of us felt at one point what you have expressed in words--How the hell did I get myself into this?? 

I was no top notch student in A school or Power School (3.14) with 30 - 4's to do.  When I got to Charleston for Prototype, I absolutely HATED it--seriously.  However, even though I didn't like it, I stuck it out because, really when you think about it, who the hell else can say they did what you did 6 years from now.  There really aren't that many nukes out there. 

I wanted to goto film school, to be quite honest.  Instead, I found myself in the Navy nuke program because of the bonuses and advancement in rate, and getting the hell out of the Midwest.  You have to remember something, that the fleet is VERY different than school.  School is just a way to weed out those you don't want sitting at the power plant (and even some that sneak through are kinda scary).  It's like advanced bootcamp on crack.

But when you're through, it does get better.  If you're having this rough of time, don't volunteer for subs, because the culture for new guys can be tough on the mental state for the first few months.  It's kinda like Lord of the Flies on speed, except its adults and not children acting manic at times.

It's pretty simple.  Finish the six and get out.  Don't even consider reenlisting.  But after you qualify all required watchstations on your ship, start taking NPACE classes, or whatever is available.  Take the GI BILL and the extra kickers they have.  When you're 6 years is up, you'll have a good trade background to fall back on, you'll be wiser and more experienced than most people you know that are your age, you'll be far more passionate about what you want to do after the military, and you'll hopefully, enjoy life much better because you'll have a deeper appreciation for the things you've worked hard for. 

Trust me, the nuke program definitely has it's benefits.  If you purposefully fail, it could be the worst mistake you ever make.  All the cones on my ship had to stand hours and hours of topside watch in Bahrain in August when it's 120F out--no nukes were doing that.  As a nuke, you have a better chance of being picked up for an officer program.  We had a guy on my ship that was an E-6 (10 years), he had finished his B.S. on his own, then decided he wanted to fly.  He got picked up for OCS, left a few months later, then went to flight school in Pensacola. 

When you are finished with the Navy, the Nuke program experience will open more doors than any other enlisted program in the military. 

I run a student organization at my school that I founded for veterans, and the VP just so happens to be a nuke to.  She was on a carrier, but got out before I did, and she's in the Optometry doctoral program, doing exactly what she wants to do.  Me... have all my film gear, and have been doing small film production for the last year or so, and I'm starting to expand my business on the side - doing what I love to do, and not missing standing port and stbd watches as AEA or SRO!!!!

Good luck and hang in there,

Jeff

  http://www.indiana.edu/~iuvet/index.htm







   

[Ommetikklan]

The Navy abuses you from time to time, so take them to the cleaners whenever you have a chance.  Here's one recommendation for you when you get to the fleet. Suck up to some officers, then when you have to take leave,  start on a Friday (but don't have it signed out till Monday), then return next week on the Monday (but have it signed in for Friday). It's called the 9 for 5 program (9 days leave, 5 only counting).  Kissing ass always has it advantages.  Try to put the Navy on the receiving end from time to time, that way, things don't seem quite as bad.

[Already Gone]

Another name for that program is Absent Without Leave (AWOL).  Every command has a limited geographical area for recall.  If you leave that area, you must have permission from your command.
So, if you fly home on Friday night with leave papers that are not effective until Monday, you are AWOL.  If the ship has a recall, you will be busted.  They can also tack on what are known as "Lesser Included Charges" such as; filing a false official document, missing ship's movement, failure to follow a lawful order (they tack that one on to everything because you are always subject to some order or another).

"Sucking up" to officers only makes you a suck-up.  Everyone else will notice it and they will treat you accordingly.  If your Chief or LPO thinks you are going over his head, he'll screw you with your pants on.  Chances are that one of those weekend days was your duty day.  If you were not on board for duty on that day, and your leave papers show that you were only on leave from monday through Friday, you might as well take all your uniforms to the tailor to get those chevrons removed in advance.  You might get some favors from a junior officer or two for being an ass-kisser, but they will forget they ever knew you when you're standing in front of the green table.   

Before you try pulling a fast one, read your command's standing orders.  Find out how far away you can go on liberty without signed leave papers.  Don't exceed that limit.

As far as putting them on the receiving end goes, that happens every payday.  It may not be the best paycheck in the world, but it's the one you agreed to accept.

[GARYGWOODJR]

But I chose to be an MM. So my idea was to finish A school and try and get as high of a GPA as possible and tell them that I don't want to be in the program anymore. I just want my MGIB benefits, do my 4 years as an MM in the fleet, and get a degree in Physical Therapy. As you can tell the career I want has nothing to do with nuclear propulsion.

20 years ago I joined the Navy to be in the band.  As luck would have it I took the Nuke test and as they say, the rest is history.  (My recruiter told me I could switch to the band once I was in boot camp)  Meet your commitments and work on your degree while you are in the Navy.  Dont be one of those guys that makes life hard on everyone else because they are not happy with the descisions they made.  I have worked with several individuals that hated the Navy and what they did.  Some of them were my best workers and friends.  Nuclear power is nuclear power whether its under water or in the middle of a corn field in Illinois.  As previously said "its not for everyone".  If you want to talk offline about this send me an email.

MMCM/SS(ret)

 

[20 Years Gone]

Nuclear power is nuclear power whether its under water or in the middle of a corn field in Illinois.

I have to differ with you, Wingsfan.  I did my 20+, and now am in commercial power at a plant in middle of Kansas wheat fields.  While I tolerated well navy nuclear power, I love my job now.  Lets see.......

1.  Time and a half Overtime
2.  Double Time Sundays
3.  No duty days, vice 3 at worst, and a rare 5 section
4.  I never sortie when a hurricane is coming. (not that they come often to KS)
5.  When I get called in, I am compensated.
6.  I never have to buy cleaning supplies and toilet paper on the way to work because the ship has none.
7.  I am not responsible for cleaning bathrooms, or ordering my guys to chase dust bunnies in the XO's passageway when they get done with watch and maintenance.
8.  Extra pay for being on a fire response team.
9.  Extra pay for shift differential.
10.  Excellent medical, dental, and educational benefits. For example, glasses for dependents.
11.  No sea time, or 6 months away from my loved ones.
12.  I chose where I work
13.  Outages with tons of OT  Vice  shipyard periods with tons of OT, but no extra pay.
14. I work with great people...

   I'm not downing the Navy... It can't be helped being the way it is... When assigned to a ship, it is pretty inherent that you'll go out to sea, and I never bitched when in, and I don't bitch now.  If I have a fault at work, it's telling too many stories about things that I experienced in the navy, and I relate positive experiences.  No one likes someone who downs their last employer.
   I am saying, though, that my quality of life in commercial nuclear power/civilian status is heads and shoulders above my last 20 years, and that's to be expected.  They don't comment on the sacrifices of military life for nothin.

   ETC(SW) Ret

[GARYGWOODJR]

I may have simplified things a bit.  I am not part of the bargaining unit so I do not enjoy some of the same pleasures that you do.  So my job is similar to the Navy in many ways, but this is off topic.

[Already Gone]

Yeah, let's try to keep it on topic.  The gist is that this kid is looking at a good opportunity, and starting to get cold feet.  He is probably at the age where any commitment of more than six months is forever.

Like 20yg, a lot of us took that opportunity, and turned it into a well-paying career in commercial nuclear power.  A lot of other folks did their six and out, went into business with their family, opened a juice bar, or became physical therapists.  I personally know of two lawyers who were navy nukes with me.

The one common thing among them all is that they started as navy nukes.  If you're going to have to give the navy six years of your life, there aren't many better ways to do it than being nukes.  It may not be the career this kid wants for a lifetime, but he has made a choice.  Following through on his commitment has got to be the best road for him to take.  Jumping off this train can not possibly improve his quality of life, either now or in the future.

[GARYGWOODJR]

Beer Court is right on the mark (and on topic).   You have to make the decision that you feel is best for you.  You have to live with the consequences.  I think the common theme here is that you should seriously consider the long term affects of that decision.

[20 Years Gone]

OK,  back on topic. (Got a lil' preachy there, didn't I?)

   Beer Court is right... and I'll amplify it.  When you put in the effort that it takes to make it through NFAS, NPS, and Prototype, it changes you somewhat.  I know I came out feeling that if I had worked that hard in any academic endeavor before, (HS), I'd have full academic rides to colleges of my choice.  And armed with that new confidence and work ethic, which was also gained through fleet experience, I new I could conquer any college course I wanted to.  There's a good reason many ex-nukes do so well in future college courses.  Once you've been given knowledge via the fire hose, drinking through a straw comes pretty easy.

[glowingreen]

Been workin at a plant for 4 years since getting out of the nav. I did not like the nav but it was worth it to be making 110K as a non-licensed operator... and I work just about the minimum amount of OT permitted while being on shift

[Fermi2]

Been workin at a plant for 4 years since getting out of the nav. I did not like the nav but it was worth it to be making 110K as a non-licensed operator... and I work just about the minimum amount of OT permitted while being on shift

What plant is paying 110K for a NLO with minimum OT? I just got done calling every facility in the country and a lot of Plant Managers want that job.

Mike

[Chimera]

Wareaglesvf;

I know exactly how you feel.  When I went through the program (class 69-3), I was already an ET and had spent some time in the fleet before Nuc School started . . . and I didn't want it.  I had talked to a lot of the guys on the nuc subs attached to tender I was assigned to and I didn't like what I heard at all.  When I went to Mare Island for the first six months of school-house training, all I wanted was out of the program, but I wasn't willing to screw up my remaining time in the Navy by doing something stupid.  Then I went to prototype (S5G).  I don't know what happened, but once I got there and started actually using all that school-house stuff, it got interesting.  I actually started to enjoy it, albeit the hours were long and, as one of three "hot-runners", the work was not easy.  My time in the fleet on submarines wasn't a piece of cake either, but I actually did like what I was doing.  As a military brat, I always resented all that military stuff . . . like saluting and keeping my shirt sleeves rolled down . . . but the professional side was intriguing and made me learn.

Was that what I really wanted to do with my life back then?  I don't think so.  But the rewards in my later life have made that time well worth it.  Like Beer Court said, once you've gone through the Navy's nuc program, everything else is much easier.  All I can tell you is to hang in there, don't do anything stupid, learn all you can (more than just what they want to teach you), and have fun once this part of your life is over.  Heck, learn how to have fun with this part of your life too.  It will drive them crazy and make everything much more tolerable for you.  It is an adventure, but, like most adventures, it always looks better in the retelling, not in the doing.

[Roll Tide]

It is an adventure, but, like most adventures, it always looks better in the retelling, not in the doing.

How true that is!!! The Navy is quite an adventure for the Nukes.

[sefrick]

Let's see, yes I'm the FNG but I feel nice n comfy around a bunch of Nukes. For me it was a simple decision. I went to see my recruiter and told him point blank that I wanted a technical job, he looked at my ASVAB scores and handed me the Nuke test. (I never understood why he was so excited that I was going Nuke)

Now it's been almost 10 years and it is time to go. Now, as far as the last ten years go,it's been all ups and downs and I'm certain all can relate. But think about what the Navy really has to offer. I was 22 y/o and skiing in the Andes Mts. in Chilie during a UNITAS deployment. I've seen a 1100 year old Buhdist temple in Korea.  I was able to complete Navy dive school for SCUBA, we dove a wreck off Alamuana beach park in Honolulu for our 130 ft qual dive, with 100+ ft visability. I've had swim calls in the middle of the Pacific, gone snorkeling in Venezuala and partied at Copacabana. All while making an ok salary.

Now I have to admit, for every good time, there have been 10 - 20 times the sucked, but somehow you still manage to have fond memories of those bad times. The Chief's and Officer's that you hated working for, the long hours (from zero-dark to O-dark hundred), the boring and semingly senseless underways, midwatches, etc. When you get with your old buddies after a couple of years, you laugh about all those bad times. Sometime you even miss it.

The bottom line is, whether Navy or civlian, Nuke or Non-Nuke, subs or surface, its a matter of what you make of it. As far as commitment goes, you signed up and said "yes I will do this", so do it and make the best of it. The only thing I can guarentee is if you go into it with a bad attitude, you WILL end up hating life.

                                                        MM1(SS/DV) w/121 days left   

[glowingreen]

What plant is paying 110K for a NLO with minimum OT? I just got done calling every facility in the country and a lot of Plant Managers want that job.

Mike

Did you call Indian Point... 3?

[taterhead]

I am sure that this original poster is far, far gone from this site.....

[Flooznie]

I remember when I was in power school, we actually had one of our ETs get into major trouble.  People used to always snicker about the officer instructors being formally known as "dildos", but this guy named Fast took them up on it.  One day during physics class, he actually raised his hand and said, "Excuse me, dildo, can you tell me _________________?"

Luckily, he didn't go to mast for that.  He just got yelled at by a bunch of people and was told to never say that again.

ET1 (SS)

[Fermi2]

Did you call Indian Point... 3?

Yeah and the PM laughed.

[glowingreen]

Yeah and the PM laughed.

Oh... so I guess you caught me in a lie. But wait, what could I possibly have to gain by making something like this up. I am no nav recruiter and I do not hire people here, so I really have no need to falsely build the place up. I simply made an honest post so that this person who started this topic (wherever they are...) could realize that there are big things waiting for them on the other side (plus, he is probably tired of everyone just telling him to suck it up). Now, as to why you would spend so much of your "valuable" time calling every site in the country is beyond me. I am amazed that you could nail down the "Plant Manager" here. We have not had a person operating under that title in a few years now. If I cared enough, I would ask for an address and I would send you a paystub, but I probably would have just made that up too. Maybe you should just believe it... because there are a few other sites where NLO's make more than we do here. Better run to the phone and dial up some more PMs. Or, better yet, maybe you can land a job as a Wal-Mart greeter to supplement your "SRO" income so that maybe then you will be able to sleep at night (but that wouldn't help, because then you'd be working all of the time). Get a grip and stop wasting your time. What a great website. People like you (Fermi2) make me want to come running back.

[ETfromHELL]

I'm currently going through "A" school at NNPTC, and I can understand how one would want "out". I'm 24, and being out of high school 6 years and out of college for 2, my ability to "absorb the material" is no more. However, i'm sticking it out because I know what the rewards are when I finally get through the program and leave the Navy. LIFE AT NNPTC SUCKS!! I know, half of my friends have been sent to mast for the dumbest reasons, there are more "rules" than any where else in the Navy, but it has it's rewards. You're going to write your own ticket when you get out. Stick it out! Don't blow a good thing, and don't bring down those around you who want this.

To answer Sefrick's question about why the recruiter was more than happy to bend over backwards to sign him on as a Nuke, it's because we're worth more than the average recruit. Signing on an SK for example is worth 1 towards they're quota of 4 per month. Signing on a Nuke is worth 2. I know this because my recruiter, a close family friend, told me so!

[Fermi2]

I'm not trying to be argumentive. I used the term we use here, Plant Manager, that person who is mentioned in the UFSAR as holding the ultimate responsibility to the site. It can be Plant Director, Plant Manager, Director Of Plant Operations.

I also talked with the former Ops boss at IP. We're close frioends. In her words, Mike 29 and hour does not work out to be 100 K a year.

I can get the pay scale of any plant in the country very easily. All ya gotta doi is search the INPO Website. Get the name of the person you'd like to contact, then give them a call.

Mike

[glowingreen]

Mike,

I agree that 29 an hour does not make 100. But if your girlfriend is who I think she is, she has been gone for a little while now. So, 29 is more like 37+. Also, since we are now "one site" and hold hands like we do (yippee), we have a refuel every year... and as you surely know, they are not exactly voluntary. Throw in shift differential and the 8 "built-in" hours of OT on shift (what I meant by working minimum OT), and ANY fully qualified NLO here routinely blows 100K out of the water. And with #3 up around 500 days straight, there has not been much spare OT on our side.

Everyone else,
As I originally tried to say,
nav... not so good.
Money after nuclear nav... quite good... PERIOD.
...and you just might even feel good about having served for your country.

[taterhead]

LIFE AT NNPTC SUCKS!! I know, half of my friends have been sent to mast for the dumbest reasons, there are more "rules" than any where else in the Navy, but it has it's rewards. 

Top reasons guys went to mast when I was in NPS-

1.  Drinking (under age or contributing to under age)
2.  Cheating/Integrity Violations (hours violations, etc)
3.  UA
4.  Just generally being dumbasses

It's not that hard, just requires discipline.  Enjoy power school, my friends.  I know I did.  Orlando was a blast.

[getinmiggy]

Get out while you can. If you have less than 90 days, you can get discharged without it really looking all that bad. I would do that if I were you. Don't listen to any of these other clowns. It doesn't ever get any better or anything. GET OUT!!!!There are so many ways that you can get out, you just have to take the time to do the research and the time to follow threw with it. It might seem hard at first but it is well worth it. It isn't too late!!! Do it while you still can.

[RCLCPO]

There have been some striking constants in the Nuclear Navy over the past 20 years.  One of which involves the general description of the disgruntled sailor.  In my experience, these are the common descriptors:

1.  They've never had to work for anything in their (young) lives.
2.  They've always been smart enough to get by in school without having to put forth any effort.
3.  They could've had A's and B's in school, but were satisfied with C's that didn't require effort to achieve.
4.  They joined the Navy because they thought it would be an easy way to make lots of money.
5.  They've never worked under a contract before, and the idea of being able to quit is still real.
6.  When required to put forth effort, they resist, rather than adapt.
7.  If they were to put forth half as much effort at the job as they did bitching and griping, they would actually be productive.
8.  Life, for them, will always be greener on the other side of whatever they are currently doing.  Until they actually change jobs, that is, and realize employers compensate for work and effort, not attitude.
9.  Their amazing amount of childish ego, believing they know more about the world than those older, wiser and experienced.  This contibutes to their belief that all the rules, procedures and military requirements are merely "stupid", as are the opinions of everyone who doesn't agree with them.
10.  When they finally grow up, they can be good, productive people.
11.  Until they grow up, work will be an affliction, and professionalism a curse.

Y'know what, ETfromHELL and getinmiggy, why don't you just go ahead and get the hell out of my Navy before you become a royal pain in the collective ass of the real men and women of whatever ship you get assigned to.

[Phurst]

9.  Their amazing amount of childish ego, believing they know more about the world than those older, wiser and experienced.  This contibutes to their belief that all the rules, procedures and military requirements are merely "stupid", as are the opinions of everyone who doesn't agree with them.

#9 Since the beginning of time.
I was one of those disgruntled sailors early on and I regret not changing my attitude and doing my best. I would be light years ahead of where I am now. In the long run it doesn't matter because each individual will act as he/she feels. Too bad. I wish I would have taken advice instead of knowing it all.

[sefrick]

RCLCPO, now that I know who you are I could hear your voice on that last post. Perhaps deja vu from discussions we had during some midwatches that we stood together.

ETfromHELL, enjoy NNPS while you are there. To admit, I was a rock in power school. I went in after doing well in "A" school thinking that I knew it all, then promptly had my ass handed to me academicly. I put in about 45-50 hours per week and still managed to have a blast. Despite all the work and never sleeping, looking back it was a great time. Refuse to fail and you will get through it.

Honestly, I think that it's worth it while you are still in the Navy. Yes you have good experience and training for after your term is up, but you also have the privilege of working with a rare and unique breed in sailors. The work environment from the people in it make it better. You recieve benifits, including pay benifits for having to deal with the daily BS that comes with Naval nuclear power. The daily BS also builds character and prepares you for challenges.

The standard is much, much higher. That is why you see people going to mast and getting the boot for "dumb ass reasons". Think about it, would you want to be onboard a sub, at sea submerged operating where the depth of the ocean is nearly 2 miles deep with some wing nut who can't obey a simple rule because they think that they know it all or that they will get away with it, winging valves on a pressurized steam plant? Or better yet, put that same wing nut on the panel (either panel for that matter) and let him operate the electric or reactor plant. That's bad business.

These guys need to be weeded out. With their insubordination and lack or respect they pose a threat to the safety of the crew and creat a headache, constant headache for guys like RLCPO and myself. I'm certain that we can both name a few weeds that slipped through.

                                                               MM1(SS/DV)

[Flooznie]

I'm with RCLCPO on his comments about those 2 goons.  You guys don't have the slightest idea of what you are talking about.  They set up the program like this for a reason.  When you been on the boat for about 4 years and you get nubs with attitudes like yourself now, you will understand why you want to hit them with a tire iron.  Unfortunately in today's Navy, that behavior has recently been frowned upon.  So, the shitbags end up getting the good deals.  They are the ones that never do any work or collateral duties because simply put......you don't trust them.  Please do not be the nubs that report to the ships with the attitudes and think you have it all figured out.  You do not, I can assure you of this.

ET1 (SS)

[HydroDave63]

right on!  It gets old hearing from soon to be wannabe nukes whining that they get panic attacks, parking is hard to find or the Chief doesn't give them enough time to read the next Harry Potter book.

If you dont like it, get out, and quit wasting our tax dollars and time.

[Already Gone]

I admit that I jumped right on the originator of this thread.  I slapped him around a little for being a whiner, but that's not his worst quality.
Lately, a lot of Navy nukes (still larvae as far as nuke power is concerned) have taken advantage of this site. It's good that they can come here and get in touch with the larger world.
But, a couple of these youngsters have decided that they are too good to be bothered with keeping their commitment.  There always have been zeros like this in the program (as RCLCPO has pointed out), and the program is pretty good at weeding them out before they can do any damage.
I have no doubt that anyone STUPID enough to come HERE and bitch about being too good for a program that produced many of us, is too stupid to make it through.  Really!!!  If these losers think that they will find any symapathy here, they are seriously f^~ked up.
We have been doing pretty well at giving them advice and encouragement, but I think we are drawing the line at commiserating with them because they are just too smart for NPS, or because it turned out to be work.

[taterhead]

You guys are crackin me up!

Benefits have only gotten better, while the job is the same.  I am going to school full time and finishing up my degree on shore duty (graduate in spring), at no expense to me.  It's not an officer program, it's enlisted guy shore duty, and I came here as an E6.

Power school guys have no perspective.  Do your six (or whatever) and get out and bitch all you want.  If you haven't even gotten your feet wet, cry me a river, I'm not listening, but I am laughing, and hoping you don't end up working for me (for your sake)!

Taylor (MMC/SW/AW)

[Already Gone]

Get out while you can. If you have less than 90 days, you can get discharged without it really looking all that bad. I would do that if I were you. Don't listen to any of these other clowns. It doesn't ever get any better or anything. GET OUT!!!!There are so many ways that you can get out, you just have to take the time to do the research and the time to follow threw with it. It might seem hard at first but it is well worth it. It isn't too late!!! Do it while you still can.

This is one of those guys I'm talkin' about.  He's a real brain-trust waiting to be discovered.  I really admire someone who is so determined to be a loser that he is willing to do the research and follow "threw" with it.

[Already Gone]

I dunno.... ME, perhaps?  I've had a tough time with everything from NPS all the way through.  Been fired from most of the jobs I've ever had.  But I have NEVER advised someone that "you can QUIT if you try hard enough."

[johnigma]

BeerCourt and others, I've read your posts on the quality of personnel coming out of NPS via graduation and success or otherwise, and it's kind of disheartening.

Now I recently finished the pipeline myself (0402) and like EVERYONE else in my class, I struggled with parts.  I do find it hard to believe, however, that when you all went through, that a substantial number of the people you went with didn't want to get out.  In fact, from reading other posts, apparently it was much easier to do, i.e. being overweight, rainbow chit, etc...  So perhaps some of the attitudes and whiners were weeded out because it was easier to do.  But, the majority of the people coming through now are hard working and DO NOT have the attitude that seems to be what has become expected.. that of expecting what isn't deserved.

I'm sure you knew some people like that... 

That said, dude.. finish the program.. you signed up for it.

[Already Gone]

I'm a little confused by that last post.
When I went through NPS, it was anything but easy.  HALF of my section was dropped at the three week cut.  Some of those were guys who really wanted to make it, but couldn't.  BAM!  It's over for you.
There were some jerks who tried to get dropped back then too, because it was hard and they would rather spend their weekends at the beach,
To go along with those losers were the superbrains from section 13 who NEVER studied after hours and cried like babies for a regrade of the one and only test where they got one point less than perfect.  Those were the guys who hit reality awful hard at NPTU or the fleet.
One guy from three classes ahead of me decided that NPS was not "challenging enough" for his superior intellect.  He just stopped showing up for class.  By the time I met him he was an ETSR on restriction.  He was too good for that too, and flagrantly disregarded his restriction by going home to an off-base apartment every night.  When I caught him, he threatened me and my family.  The XO put his "superior" ass into the Orange County Jail for that one.

It all comes down to this:  If you don't like NPS, welcome to the club.  We all hated it for one reason or another.  It was too hard; It wasn't hard enough; The weather and the off-base recreation was too good to waste time studying; It wasn't what we thought it would be like; etc.  etc.
So what if you don't like it?  Big Deal!  We didn't like it either, but we did it.  We kept our word,a nd we knew friends who wish they had another chance to suffer through it.
It's not exactly like a life sentence in a Turkish prison.  Just do it and shut up.  In the end, you will have accomplished a respectable and very employable goal.

[SGFAL21]

Wow... Now I just graduated from NPS about a week ago and really I can see where you are coming from.  Now it looks like all these guys are being hard on you but they really arent.  That school sucked... and Im not talking about the regular kind but the kind thats like a black whole trying to destroy the universe suck.  But when you walk across that stage in Rickover circle and knowing that theres only 6 months standing between you and some crazy ass adventures you realize that it is and was worth it.  You know why we cant cross rate if we decide that this isnt for us... the same reason the "non nuclear navy" cant cross into our domain.  Do you realize how many nukes there would be if we could just quite like the seals can.  Would you really want someone who couldnt possibly understand why the atom splits when its hit by the neutron.  I dont know but like the other people on here that are telling you to quit whinning and suck it up... quit whinning and suck it up. It gets better.
mm3

[senimor]

Wow, I believe alot of people have came here bashing a kid for making a decision he doesnt feel he can live with.  Just because all of you "sucked" it up and dealt with it, doesnt mean he has to.  Im still in the navy, and i love being a nuke, but i understand its not for everyone.  I saw several people at NNPTC get out of nuke field most lost a chevron or stripe for it though.  I am not at NPTU in NY, and i can say here, if you dont want in, all it takes is a talk to the masterchief.  They will encourage you to talk to the MC if your not feeling up to the job/challenge, they dont want incapable operators, not matter what the cause. 

The navy is a volunteer service guys, and for you to scold someone because they signed a piece of paper at 18 yrs old directly out of high school, and tell them to just "live" with it.  He still wishes to serve his country, but he feels he would be more useful as something other than a nuke.

I believe the "grow up" statements may directed towards the wrong person.

And my 2 cents on the what is harder/easier, old nuke pipeline vs. new nuke pipeline.  Well, before bowman the drop rate at NNPTC and NPS were significantly higher, but this makes me curious about something.  Supposedly, the navy REALLY needs operators, and i dont think we have commisioned that many ships in the last 15 yrs.  If back in the 'old' days, everyone was booted out, and classes only graduated 30%, which now is about 100 ppl/NPS class, how did the navy man their ships?  We are on a shortage right now, putting 300 ppl out every 2 months, and 15 yrs ago you only put out 100? so the nuclear navy has over tripled in size?  Im sorry, i dont mean to be that 1.5 yr in nub that fits the profile so nicely provided previously, but if you could explain it to me, would be appreciated, because in the back of my mind i still think its the same as my father walking to school barefoot in the snow uphill both ways kinda story.

[Already Gone]

Gee, let'sn try a complicated concept that you may need to use your computer for.  So, just open up the calcuator program in another window and try to keep up.  Here goes. - When the classes dropped large percentages of students, they were LARGER classes.  There used to be at least seven prototype reactors at one time, maybe more.  Therefore, the classes at NPS could pump out many more bodies and still have somewhere to send them.  Of course, the drop rates were never in the vicinity of 70%.  Depending on the section you started in, the drop rate was anywhere from 100% to 0%.  Naturally, the drop rate in section 13 was nowhere near the number dropped from section 1.  Many times section 1 no longer existed at graduation time.
Not all drops were academic.  Getting busted with beer in your room, or a girl in your room, or a DWI, and you were gone.  Show up late for a watch too many times (perhaps even once) and you were gone.
Almost nobody got dropped from prototype, but there were a few.

All the "grow up" advice might seem a little more on point to you if you go back and read the little whiner's post.  He's not claiming in any way that he isn't up to the job.  In fact, he's claiming that he's too good.  Well, that's too bad.

Signing a contract brings upon a person (even an 18 year-old person) a responsibility to uphold the provisions of the contract.  It may be an all-volunteer Navy, but that doesn't mean that you have to be asked to volunteer every single day.  You volunteer once, and only once.  After that you are bound to do the duty that you swore to do. PERIOD!!!

If that oath means nothing to you... do the United States, the United States Navy, the People of the United States, and the world a favor and GET OUT!!!  We don't need people protecting our country when they feel like it.  We don't need to be protected by people whose idea of Duty, Honor, and Country are second to your own personal preferences.
If that oath you took still reflects your committment, then let me thank you personally for your service and encourage you to perservere even when it gets to be difficult.

[mattrev]

Just as a point of reference. I looked up my standing in my service record. In class 8206, we graduated 448. That doesn't count all the people who flunked out. I think we started with 520 - 550 or so.

[M1Ark]

Just as a point of reference. I looked up my standing in my service record. In class 8206, we graduated 448. That doesn't count all the people who flunked out. I think we started with 520 - 550 or so.

8808 graduated 335 Mechanics.  Lots dropped out to support the conventional MM's in the fleet.

I've heard someone say once that the nuke pipeline used to be a filter.  Now it's a positive displacement pump with a little bit of gland leakoff.

[stormgoalie]

Normally I would stay out of a discussion such as this and limit my posts to "professional" topics but I found that I must throw my opinion in the pile.

When I read the entire string of posts for this topic I started to think back on my time in the Navy and my attitude.  Now granted I was not a Nuke, BT by rate although it has since been removed, and never got the "pleasure" of going to Nuke school.   I found my attitude was very similar to some of the people's posts.  I too found that whining and griping about everything was the easy way out.  But I will tell you where it got me and what it took for me to finally realize that the only person that can make a situation better is me.

When I signed up my recruiter had me take the nuke test, my ASVAB score was a 96 so he figured I was a shoe-in to pass the test.  What he, and myself at the time, didn't fully appreciate was how lazy and conceited I was.  I was the guy in school that got straight C's because I wouldn't put in the effort to get anything higher.  I had a teacher tell me she would have loved to fail me, but I got A's on all her tests so she couldn't.  Of course I didn't pass the Nuke test so that isn't the path I took, instead I started my career trying to become an ET.  I rocked out on the last module of BEEP school.  WHY?  Lemme see, drinking, going to Chicago all weekend instead of studying, you know the usual.  Studying and voluntary extra study where for whimps, or so I would have told you.  Imagine my surprise when I had to go and basically beg not to be dropped from the program.  I think I might have stood a chance had I not shown up hung over or possibly still drunk from a weekend bender.  Oh yeah that makes the right impression.  This attitude didn't stop for the entire time I was in!!  I went from E-2 to E-5, first increment on all promotions, and right back down to E-1 in a 4 year period (I started as a 6yo but didn't make it that long).  Why?  Piss poor attitude!!  I wouldn't listen to a Chief that saw a potential that I refused to realize.  I thought that there was nothing I could do but drink and bitch about being in.  In the end my attitude bought me a 60 day stay in the brig at Jacksonville NAS for deciding that I needed a "vacation" and I didn't need their permission.  And the real kicker to this was I had been really trying to get my act together for 6 months or so and my command had noticed the improvement.  My CO had an amnesty program that should my chain of command feel that I had learned my lesson they would expunge my record and restore my highest rank attained.  I took my "vacation" the day before I was to be notified of my reinstatement to BT2!!

It took a lot of growing up before I commited to getting an education and picking a career in a very exciting (and profitable) field.  For any of the young folks just starting this amazing journey on their own, take advantage of anything or anyone who can help you and realize something, besides I had to pay for my education and the Navy is paying you for yours.  There are a lot of individuals on this rock we live on that would give anything for the opportunities that YOU have. 

Sorry for the rant,

J. Rodgers

[Fermi2]

Normally I would stay out of a discussion such as this and limit my posts to "professional" topics but I found that I must throw my opinion in the pile.

When I read the entire string of posts for this topic I started to think back on my time in the Navy and my attitude.  Now granted I was not a Nuke, BT by rate although it has since been removed, and never got the "pleasure" of going to Nuke school.   I found my attitude was very similar to some of the people's posts.  I too found that whining and griping about everything was the easy way out.  But I will tell you where it got me and what it took for me to finally realize that the only person that can make a situation better is me.

When I signed up my recruiter had me take the nuke test, my ASVAB score was a 96 so he figured I was a shoe-in to pass the test.  What he, and myself at the time, didn't fully appreciate was how lazy and conceited I was.  I was the guy in school that got straight C's because I wouldn't put in the effort to get anything higher.  I had a teacher tell me she would have loved to fail me, but I got A's on all her tests so she couldn't.  Of course I didn't pass the Nuke test so that isn't the path I took, instead I started my career trying to become an ET.  I rocked out on the last module of BEEP school.  WHY?  Lemme see, drinking, going to Chicago all weekend instead of studying, you know the usual.  Studying and voluntary extra study where for whimps, or so I would have told you.  Imagine my surprise when I had to go and basically beg not to be dropped from the program.  I think I might have stood a chance had I not shown up hung over or possibly still drunk from a weekend bender.  Oh yeah that makes the right impression.  This attitude didn't stop for the entire time I was in!!  I went from E-2 to E-5, first increment on all promotions, and right back down to E-1 in a 4 year period (I started as a 6yo but didn't make it that long).  Why?  Piss poor attitude!!  I wouldn't listen to a Chief that saw a potential that I refused to realize.  I thought that there was nothing I could do but drink and bitch about being in.  In the end my attitude bought me a 60 day stay in the brig at Jacksonville NAS for deciding that I needed a "vacation" and I didn't need their permission.  And the real kicker to this was I had been really trying to get my act together for 6 months or so and my command had noticed the improvement.  My CO had an amnesty program that should my chain of command feel that I had learned my lesson they would expunge my record and restore my highest rank attained.  I took my "vacation" the day before I was to be notified of my reinstatement to BT2!!

It took a lot of growing up before I commited to getting an education and picking a career in a very exciting (and profitable) field.  For any of the young folks just starting this amazing journey on their own, take advantage of anything or anyone who can help you and realize something, besides I had to pay for my education and the Navy is paying you for yours.  There are a lot of individuals on this rock we live on that would give anything for the opportunities that YOU have. 

Sorry for the rant,

J. Rodgers

This is one awesome post!!

Thanks!

Mike

[visserjr]

Truthfully, if the guy is wanting to give up now, let him be an Turd Chaser on an oiler for those four years as an E-3. Maybe then he'd be happy with his choice to be a nuke. Frankly, maybe a trip to ERLL with the boys could straighten him up.

[SGFAL21]

senimor, well since you are at NPTU Ballston Spa I figure Ill say hello since I start training there Monday.  I dont like to rock boats and would never disagree with a superior out load as my father (a retired MMCM) would shoot me for doing this, but I feel comfortable in being able to do this from the privacy of this site.  I dont think you quite understand the amount of trash coming through NFAS,  now you might have instructed there a while ago but when I went through about 9 or 10 months ago the amout of sh*&bags running through was astonishing.  Not to say I didnt have my days where I wasnt a bit lazy.  But in the limited experiance with the people in my sections (excpecially in power school since I was the section leader) I found the best way to make people stop complaining and start doing their jobs was to belittle them and make them feel like they were lower than us doing the best we could.  Im a strong believer that this new navy BS is yet another thing that is hampering the effectiveness of this Navy.  Tough love is the best thing in my opinion, this way we look out for our shipmates and yet hopefully give them pride in the job thinking I went through hell with them and look at me now, im aces.  That is all.
*m3