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Sun Dog

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Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« on: Jul 09, 2011, 03:31 »
Any guess how long it will last?  I'd wager they come to terms before the first frost.  The picket line could be uncomfortable in Oswego come January.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/nine_mile_point_nuclear_worker_1.html

flblasted

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #1 on: Jul 09, 2011, 08:39 »
Can anyone spread some insight on some of the preparations they've had to make to staff the shift?

I'm curious how many active licensed SROs they have that they can cover without violating NRC fatigue rules.

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #2 on: Jul 09, 2011, 08:47 »
They probably won't meet the fatigue rules, but that is why there are waivers. Sucks to be them. I've got an email out to an SRO buddy I have there, maybe he will give me more scoop.
« Last Edit: Jul 09, 2011, 08:49 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

flblasted

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #3 on: Jul 09, 2011, 09:01 »
I suppose so, but I would think they'd get a pretty big boot up their ass waiving the fatigue rule if they've been planning for this for a year.  (read that in this article http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/strike_vote_looming_for_nine_m.html)

Interesting. 

sro1331

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #4 on: Jul 09, 2011, 10:53 »
Nine Mile is adhering to all the fatigue rules.  No waivers

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #5 on: Jul 09, 2011, 11:08 »
Yeah good point. Thanks sro.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #6 on: Jul 10, 2011, 11:22 »
From my SRO buddy;

4 on four off, four crews. Management covering everything.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #7 on: Jul 10, 2011, 05:22 »
I wonder how they are staffing fire brigade?

Offline IRLFAN

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #8 on: Jul 10, 2011, 05:58 »
They may have enough licensed operators to cover everything, but what about mainteneance?  RP? 

When we got locked out in 92, there were 3 LER's in the first 48 hours.
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Sun Dog

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #9 on: Jul 10, 2011, 06:25 »
Many questions.

Few answers.

Too bad.

If not managed properly this may load yet another bullet into the chamber of the gun held by the antis who may ignore the green advantages of nuclear and point to the local cogens as an alternative.  Cheaper and quicker to build - simpler to license - requires 85% less people to operate - produces as much or more MWe.

JMNSHO

« Last Edit: Jul 10, 2011, 06:26 by Sun Dog »

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #10 on: Jul 10, 2011, 07:26 »
They may have enough licensed operators to cover everything, but what about mainteneance?  RP? 

When we got locked out in 92, there were 3 LER's in the first 48 hours.

From my SRO buddy;

"Supervisors are becoming techs, and people with previous exp in other positions are being moved around."

I asked him just what you ask above, what are they doing about maintenance/I&C and RP?

Justin
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #11 on: Jul 11, 2011, 09:02 »
Between management and training instructors, I think they have that covered as well.

I hear from a reliable source that they are being sequestered at the plant starting Wednesday.  The same source seems to believe (but isn't certain) that they are working 4 days on and 4 days off, but being sequestered on their days off as well.
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Offline a|F

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #12 on: Jul 11, 2011, 10:11 »
One can only hope the scram. The reactor's will be harder to control in mode 4 or 5.     

Let me get this straight- you're hoping they scram and have difficulties controlling the reactor?  If so, shame on you.  Also, your implications that all management are lazy, spiteful, and incompetent is offensive.  Hopefully it's just another of your 20 or so grammatical errors... goes to show that proof-reading really does matter!
 

Offline x633ro

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #13 on: Jul 11, 2011, 11:52 »
1) Exelon has trained has trained Constellation Energy Nuclear Group,  Oyster Creek Union tried this and took a heavy hit. They will not be doing any maintenance cause they really do not care about maintenance. There management, They only care what your doing not what there doing. After the strike this will not be a nice place to work. Union people will cross, Those people will be ostracized. Management with rub it in there face for year's. A Strike is the last resort for workers. I hope they did the right thing here and I wish them the best of luck against the 900 pound bully. If they stay together they have a chance. One can only hope the scram. The reactor's will be harder to control in mode 4 or 5.     

Wow, I'm just another Operator, but you may want to take an English course. As far as hoping they"re (note the spelling) going to have a tough time controlling the reactor, may I suggest Walmart?

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #14 on: Jul 11, 2011, 06:03 »
By wanting the plant to scram would only give the union a better bargaining position and make the corporate cronies bargain in good faith.      

Shutdowns always help the union and management work things out. Just ask the ROs at Zion ?

  Sure you have good at grammar. You and corporate cronies are on your computer all the time writing reports and going to meeting on how to screw the union guy's over. As for the plant scramming. Well you would not have to worry about grammar anymore. Would you.

No, no....that was a Large chocolate Frosty, and supersize the #3 combo!  >:(
« Last Edit: Jul 11, 2011, 06:07 by HydroDave63 »

Offline GLW

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #15 on: Jul 11, 2011, 06:09 »
Shutdowns always help the union and management work things out. Just ask the ROs at Zion ?

This outlook started at Zion,...

Guys, You waken up some old brain cell. I started in Zion in 1980......

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Sun Dog

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #16 on: Jul 11, 2011, 06:23 »
Does anyone even know what issues prompted the IBEW to leave their posts and how far apart the parties are?

A civil discussion about the issues may actually be beneficial and those benefits may be far reaching.

Hating the other guys just because they are the other guys should be reserved for sports where it is expected that Traitor fans will hate fans of the Chiefs, the Steelers, the Broncos and any other team that plays above .500.
« Last Edit: Jul 11, 2011, 06:31 by Sun Dog »

Offline HydroDave63

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #17 on: Jul 11, 2011, 07:02 »
The wage increase is better than a lot of places, but the swap from defined benefit pension (i.e. X dollars a month forever) over to a cash-balance plan is always in corporate's interest. I'd be curious to know if the union countered with a larger company pay-in on the cash balance side, or decided that defined benefit was worth the strike?

Sun Dog

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #18 on: Jul 13, 2011, 12:30 »
Wow!

Shaw awarded contract to engineer and construct a 550 MW dual fuel combined-cycle gas turbine (CCGT) plant at Ninemile Point!!!  The announcement is two weeks old so I assume the decision to build is not a response to the current labor situation but merely a coincidence.

http://ir.shawgrp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=61066&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1580668&highlight=

Wait a second!  That is Ninemile Point in Louisiana, not NY!  Sorry, my bad.


Offline ETCS

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #19 on: Jul 14, 2011, 11:06 »
Here is what is going on (quoted from email sent by a Nine Mile Point SRO):

The Union wanted a better deal than what the company wanted to give for the senior pension fund (aka transition group).  There are two groups, the transition group and the cash balance group.  The transition group is mostly the senior personnel usually 25+ years tenure.  The cash balance folks were convinced by union leadership and the negotiating committee to stick to their brotherhood and vote against the proposed "bad deal" because the "company always has another offer in their back pocket."  The company did not make another offer and the junior guys have since regretted it, several have already quit.

The Management personnel are running the plant and performing the maintenance.  The strike contingency plan has been in place for a year or more, so the company was more than well prepared for a strike.  The shifts are staffed by SROs in all positions except the Fire Brigade, which is manned by personnel who were trained to perform these duties.  There are 4 crews, four days on, four days off, with personnel currently sequestered during their time on.  There are enough SROs to support other activities including the maintenance groups, work control, and the corrective action program.  Work is going around the clock and there is already a significant dent in the maintenance backlog (ala Oyster Creek).  Some activities have been deferred but not many.  People are paid 1.5 time once they go over 40 hours of work and being paid to spend the night/day while off shift.  The management folks are making a ton of money (especially those who do not get paid overtime) but the company is actually saving a ton of money.  On top of that, sympathetic strikers from other unions are supporting the picket line and creating several disruptions, including beating on peoples' cars with picket signs, dressing in black and walking out into traffic to slow them down, etc.  Law enforcement is providing support as necessary.  The local news doesn't even seem to care much about it, there have only been occasional reports.

The Union is making a ton of public statements about "two weeks of job shodowing being inadequate" and the safety of the plants is in jeopardy because of the "lack of experience" but the reality is most personnel have pretty much moved back to their old jobs and are fairly proficient, including chemistry and RP, etc.  The union also has lost some credibility by picketing immediately outside the gate, not outside the 10 mile radius, where one could be reasonably assured of safe distance from nuclear disaster.  A lot of them are picketing with their families as well.  The union really doesn't look too good right now, especially since the NRC reported that their two day inspection shows that only "properly trained operators are running the facility."

ChuckW65

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #20 on: Jul 14, 2011, 11:58 »
That is the information I am getting from my contacts there, as well.  The Syracuse paper has run a couple of stories but not much has been made of it.

Fermi2

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #21 on: Jul 14, 2011, 01:04 »
Here is what is going on (quoted from email sent by a Nine Mile Point SRO):

The Union wanted a better deal than what the company wanted to give for the senior pension fund (aka transition group).  There are two groups, the transition group and the cash balance group.  The transition group is mostly the senior personnel usually 25+ years tenure.  The cash balance folks were convinced by union leadership and the negotiating committee to stick to their brotherhood and vote against the proposed "bad deal" because the "company always has another offer in their back pocket."  The company did not make another offer and the junior guys have since regretted it, several have already quit.

The Management personnel are running the plant and performing the maintenance.  The strike contingency plan has been in place for a year or more, so the company was more than well prepared for a strike.  The shifts are staffed by SROs in all positions except the Fire Brigade, which is manned by personnel who were trained to perform these duties.  There are 4 crews, four days on, four days off, with personnel currently sequestered during their time on.  There are enough SROs to support other activities including the maintenance groups, work control, and the corrective action program.  Work is going around the clock and there is already a significant dent in the maintenance backlog (ala Oyster Creek).  Some activities have been deferred but not many.  People are paid 1.5 time once they go over 40 hours of work and being paid to spend the night/day while off shift.  The management folks are making a ton of money (especially those who do not get paid overtime) but the company is actually saving a ton of money.  On top of that, sympathetic strikers from other unions are supporting the picket line and creating several disruptions, including beating on peoples' cars with picket signs, dressing in black and walking out into traffic to slow them down, etc.  Law enforcement is providing support as necessary.  The local news doesn't even seem to care much about it, there have only been occasional reports.

The Union is making a ton of public statements about "two weeks of job shodowing being inadequate" and the safety of the plants is in jeopardy because of the "lack of experience" but the reality is most personnel have pretty much moved back to their old jobs and are fairly proficient, including chemistry and RP, etc.  The union also has lost some credibility by picketing immediately outside the gate, not outside the 10 mile radius, where one could be reasonably assured of safe distance from nuclear disaster.  A lot of them are picketing with their families as well.  The union really doesn't look too good right now, especially since the NRC reported that their two day inspection shows that only "properly trained operators are running the facility."

Reads like a press release. What a crock of BS.

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #22 on: Jul 14, 2011, 04:53 »
The union also has lost some credibility by picketing immediately outside the gate, not outside the 10 mile radius, where one could be reasonably assured of safe distance from nuclear disaster.  A lot of them are picketing with their families as well.  The union really doesn't look too good right now, especially since the NRC reported that their two day inspection shows that only "properly trained operators are running the facility."

Signed,
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« Last Edit: Jul 14, 2011, 05:35 by HydroDave63 »

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #23 on: Jul 14, 2011, 05:04 »
Here is what is going on (quoted from email sent by a Nine Mile Point SRO):

The Union wanted a better deal than what the company wanted to give for the senior pension fund (aka transition group).  There are two groups, the transition group and the cash balance group.  The transition group is mostly the senior personnel usually 25+ years tenure.  The cash balance folks were convinced by union leadership and the negotiating committee to stick to their brotherhood and vote against the proposed "bad deal" because the "company always has another offer in their back pocket."  The company did not make another offer and the junior guys have since regretted it, several have already quit.

The Management personnel are running the plant and performing the maintenance.  The strike contingency plan has been in place for a year or more, so the company was more than well prepared for a strike.  The shifts are staffed by SROs in all positions except the Fire Brigade, which is manned by personnel who were trained to perform these duties.  There are 4 crews, four days on, four days off, with personnel currently sequestered during their time on.  There are enough SROs to support other activities including the maintenance groups, work control, and the corrective action program.  Work is going around the clock and there is already a significant dent in the maintenance backlog (ala Oyster Creek).  Some activities have been deferred but not many.  People are paid 1.5 time once they go over 40 hours of work and being paid to spend the night/day while off shift.  The management folks are making a ton of money (especially those who do not get paid overtime) but the company is actually saving a ton of money.  On top of that, sympathetic strikers from other unions are supporting the picket line and creating several disruptions, including beating on peoples' cars with picket signs, dressing in black and walking out into traffic to slow them down, etc.  Law enforcement is providing support as necessary.  The local news doesn't even seem to care much about it, there have only been occasional reports.

The Union is making a ton of public statements about "two weeks of job shodowing being inadequate" and the safety of the plants is in jeopardy because of the "lack of experience" but the reality is most personnel have pretty much moved back to their old jobs and are fairly proficient, including chemistry and RP, etc.  The union also has lost some credibility by picketing immediately outside the gate, not outside the 10 mile radius, where one could be reasonably assured of safe distance from nuclear disaster.  A lot of them are picketing with their families as well.  The union really doesn't look too good right now, especially since the NRC reported that their two day inspection shows that only "properly trained operators are running the facility."

Same sort of stuff my contact is saying. Thanks!

Justin
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Fermi2

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #24 on: Jul 14, 2011, 07:03 »
Let's face it. Their backlog IS NOT going down. Lie.

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #25 on: Jul 14, 2011, 07:49 »
First, it is a little bit of a contradiction to say that a nuclear plant is currently unsafe and to bring your family right to the site boundary.

Second, it is a huge stretch to imply that the plant is unsafe because the managers are running it.  The guy who trained you on your job is probably about as good at it as you are.

Third, the backlog might be going down because:
a) There isn't anyone there to add to the backlog
b) Management can cherry-pick whatever low-priority repairs that they choose just to claim that they are clearing items from the list
c) The maintenance backlog might get smaller but the backlog in the training, engineering, licensing ... etc. departments is growing.

The propaganda from both sides is always BS at this point in a strike.  The strike isn't about any of these issues.  It's about how they are going to fund pensions and retiree benefits.
The breaking point is never going to be about who was right and who was wrong.  It's going to be about the fact that they need their employees to run the plant, and the employees need their jobs.  So, it will be settled on who gives in first.  Management can only stand to operate this way for a limited time.  The union employees can go without work for a limited time.  So, who is going to blink first?  How much longer will the company tolerate operating the plant with a sequestered work-force who are not getting their regular jobs done?  How many paychecks can the striking workforce afford to give up in exchange for the pension provisions they are wanting?

A strike sucks for both sides.  Neither side is going to get everything they want.  The only people who will walk away from the wreckage unharmed are the office-dwellers at the Corporate HQ and the office-dwellers at the Union Hall.  For everybody else, try to remember that the people on the other side of the fence are your friends and neighbors.  Try to be civil.
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Fermi2

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #26 on: Jul 14, 2011, 09:17 »
I specifically mentioned backlog because it's a bogus claim. The craft is never the reason for the backlog. They'll work whatever you tell them to work and they'll do a great job.

No real work is being done at NiMo. Lets face it, they're doing SIs, and simple PMs and hoping to god the Union comes back before something major breaks.

If their backlog is going down it's because managers are thee longer each day and have more time to manipulate or reclassify in order to drive the numbers down.


Offline IRLFAN

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #27 on: Jul 15, 2011, 06:42 »
First, it is a little bit of a contradiction to say that a nuclear plant is currently unsafe and to bring your family right to the site boundary.

Second, it is a huge stretch to imply that the plant is unsafe because the managers are running it.  The guy who trained you on your job is probably about as good at it as you are.

Third, the backlog might be going down because:
a) There isn't anyone there to add to the backlog

I have to agree with your first point except to add that safety is compromised somewhat by the regular workers not being on the job.

Your second point is BS.  There is no way that the people who trained me is as good at my job as I am.  And even if that were true, there are only two people in our training organization that would come close.  My supervisors would be a total unmitigated disaster trying to do my job.

As far as your third point, just because the regular workers aren't there doesn't mean that equipment is not failing.  If there are insufficient personnel there to identify such failures, wouldn't that suggest that safety is being compromised?
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flblasted

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #28 on: Jul 15, 2011, 07:07 »
Your second point is BS.  There is no way that the people who trained me is as good at my job as I am.  And even if that were true, there are only two people in our training organization that would come close.  My supervisors would be a total unmitigated disaster trying to do my job.

I'm curious, what job is it that you do that is so far beyond the ability of your supervisors and those that trained you?

Edit:  I just read what I wrote back to myself and didn't like how asshat that sounded.  I'm curious because I'm trying to think of what would happen if my plant were in the same situation (even if we're non-union) and I personally think we'd be more or less ok in ops (with the exception of violating fatigue rules in a bad way). 
« Last Edit: Jul 15, 2011, 07:19 by flblasted »

Offline GLW

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #29 on: Jul 15, 2011, 07:40 »

Your second point is BS.  There is no way that the people who trained me is as good at my job as I am.  And even if that were true, there are only two people in our training organization that would come close.  My supervisors would be a total unmitigated disaster trying to do my job.


I'm thinking about this as I live about 40 miles downwind of your plant.

Competent, safe, operation of your plant seems to ride on the shoulders of one man,....you.

There might be two others who come close to being able to running that place competently.

And from your past posts I already know you're not a janitor,...

Without you three on station, whatever job it is you guys do to keep the rest of us safe from nuclear power would be accomplished at the competence level of an unmitigated disaster.

Now that's a paradox,...

I'm just saying,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Already Gone

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #30 on: Jul 15, 2011, 08:50 »
I specifically mentioned backlog because it's a bogus claim. The craft is never the reason for the backlog. They'll work whatever you tell them to work and they'll do a great job.

No real work is being done at NiMo. Lets face it, they're doing SIs, and simple PMs and hoping to god the Union comes back before something major breaks.

If their backlog is going down it's because managers are thee longer each day and have more time to manipulate or reclassify in order to drive the numbers down.

All true.  These places can't be run by a skeleton crew over the long term.  You can only pare it down for so long before it's going to catch up with you.  So, the union members are counting on that need to drive management back to the table.  Management is counting on being able to hold out just long enough to make the employees cave under the pain of being broke.  They're playing poker with all the cards face-up.  You can't bluff.  You just have to hope that the dealer turns up your Ace of Diamonds before he turns up the other guy's Ace of Clubs.

Yeah.  Since we're pointing out contradictions in the propaganda, it is just as silly to claim that the backlog is going down because the managers are doing the work as it is to claim that the managers can't run the (very automated and procedure-driven) plant.  If you are a boss, and you assert that your employees don't do as much work as you can do without them, then you might be a better mechanic than they are, but you are a bad boss.
« Last Edit: Jul 15, 2011, 08:59 by Already Gone »
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Offline ETCS

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #31 on: Jul 15, 2011, 06:32 »
Reads like a press release. What a crock of BS.

Depends on how you read it I guess - that came from a close Navy friend of mine and I believe it. 

From my friend at Nine Mile:  "apparently the local news has aleady lost interest so the union went to complain to the county legislature about the safety of the plants, and they have not responded, even in the form of a public statement."

I would guess that things are OK from a nuclear safety perspective, and that is what's really important.  I really do hope they resolve their differences but in the meantime the plant must be operated safely, the NRC wouldn't let them if they couldn't.

Offline cincinnatinuke

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #32 on: Jul 15, 2011, 06:41 »
I have to wonder aloud here, but doesnt paying those union dues add up in some strike fund?  Given that they never went on strike in the past this fund should be pretty well stocked.

Also, I heard, unconfirmed, that by changing the pension plans would net the company in the neighborhood of $7 million.

wascilywabbit

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #33 on: Jul 15, 2011, 07:36 »
As a maintenance worker at the plant, let me add a few things.  Our pension was funded by Niagara Mohawk as negotiated during previous contract negotiations and now Constellation does not want to continue to fund accordingly.  There are now three tiers of pensions with the third being new hires who do not get a pension as we do.  Those who are senior are desiring to see the middle group be made whole and come to the same level without adding cost to the company but keep their level of funding as is.  They refuse.  In "good faith" the presented a last and final offer and will not negotiate further.  Yes, this will "cost" the company 7 million, our concessions in medical equalled any raise so there is NO additional cost to the company, they want to cut another 7 million off their payroll.  All this when our top executives are expecting to earn around 36 million when we merge with Excelon next year.
As far as the year to prepare, any nuclear plant that is organized HAS to have a strike contingency in place according to NRC rules.  Every plant that is represented by a union does this.  So, do you really think that at this point the NRC is going to go in and say that the contingency they agreed to was adequate is now inadequate?
Job shadowing was a joke!!  Any one who had performed any kind of maintenance or operations knows that if you've been out of the work loop for ten years, you won't learn a whole lot in a week or two following around a maintenance crew.
I do believe the plants are safe but only by design.  I fear for the management in there working that they might get hurt as you know they aren't following the safety rules, procedures, or any human performance practices.  Do you really think that they aren't cutting any corners?

Offline Higgs

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #34 on: Jul 15, 2011, 08:05 »

  I fear for the management in there working that they might get hurt as you know they aren't following the safety rules, procedures, or any human performance practices.  Do you really think that they aren't cutting any corners?

This entire statement is complete and utter BS. You have absolutely no basis for this and are just talking out your a$$.
« Last Edit: Jul 15, 2011, 08:06 by TheHiggs »
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Offline a|F

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #35 on: Jul 15, 2011, 09:27 »
I fear for the management in there working that they might get hurt as you know they aren't following the safety rules, procedures, or any human performance practices.  Do you really think that they aren't cutting any corners?

Who do you think established those practices? 
Your post was fair and balanced up to that point. 
Now you seem out of touch.

Offline IRLFAN

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #36 on: Jul 15, 2011, 09:42 »
I'm curious, what job is it that you do that is so far beyond the ability of your supervisors and those that trained you?

Edit:  I just read what I wrote back to myself and didn't like how asshat that sounded.  I'm curious because I'm trying to think of what would happen if my plant were in the same situation (even if we're non-union) and I personally think we'd be more or less ok in ops (with the exception of violating fatigue rules in a bad way). 

I am an  I&C tech.  While the two people in our training organization that have been techs in the past are quite capable of doing the job, they don't posses the same knowledge of the current equipment, and lack the practice that it takes to do the job well and error free in a timely manner.  The supervisors on the other hand, mostly haven't touched a tool in years, if ever, and would likely injure themselves if they tried.  Not that they are incompetent or stupid, but doing the job and supervising the job are completely different.  I watched three supervisors trying to do a simple surveillance procedure and saw things that would make you cringe.

And I've been here so long that most of my training was the informal on the job type, rather than the structured training that is now the norm, so the people that "trained me" are long retired, and I am one of the people who now train others.

If you think your plant would be OK at least in ops, I would have to bow to your knowledge of the situation.
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Offline IRLFAN

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #37 on: Jul 15, 2011, 09:44 »
I'm thinking about this as I live about 40 miles downwind of your plant.

Competent, safe, operation of your plant seems to ride on the shoulders of one man,....you.

There might be two others who come close to being able to running that place competently.

And from your past posts I already know you're not a janitor,...

Without you three on station, whatever job it is you guys do to keep the rest of us safe from nuclear power would be accomplished at the competence level of an unmitigated disaster.

Now that's a paradox,...

I'm just saying,...

Let me know when you want to have a serious discussion.
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Offline GLW

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #38 on: Jul 15, 2011, 10:18 »
I am an  I&C tech.  While the two people in our training organization that have been techs in the past are quite capable of doing the job, they don't posses the same knowledge of the current equipment, and lack the practice that it takes to do the job well and error free in a timely manner.  The supervisors on the other hand, mostly haven't touched a tool in years, if ever, and would likely injure themselves if they tried.  Not that they are incompetent or stupid, but doing the job and supervising the job are completely different.  I watched three supervisors trying to do a simple surveillance procedure and saw things that would make you cringe.

And I've been here so long that most of my training was the informal on the job type, rather than the structured training that is now the norm, so the people that "trained me" are long retired, and I am one of the people who now train others.

If you think your plant would be OK at least in ops, I would have to bow to your knowledge of the situation.

Let me know when you want to have a serious discussion.

I am serious,...

It's an open forum,...

You cringe when you watch supervisors perform simple procedures at your nuclear power plant,....

I cringe when your knowledge of the situation at your plant spills into the public domain described as an unmitigated disaster,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline roadhp

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #39 on: Jul 16, 2011, 10:28 »
All this when our top executives are expecting to earn around 36 million when we merge with Excelon next year.


Perhaps this is the reason the "executives" do not want to make any more compromises.  Merger negotiations also have to do with the current Union contracts, and any changes to those contracts could put a hold on the merger talks until the parties have a chance to look at the new numbers.  This could push back or even halt the merger, although I think unless Constellation breaks off it's Maryland operations the merger is done for anyway, again.
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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #40 on: Jul 18, 2011, 04:29 »
I fear for the management in there working that they might get hurt as you know they aren't following the safety rules, procedures, or any human performance practices.  Do you really think that they aren't cutting any corners?

Def talking out of your A$$, be sure to wipe the $hit off your lips before kissing your mom.


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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #41 on: Jul 18, 2011, 04:38 »
A lot of info here is on target.
Families are being brought to the line, kids are strolling out into the streets to stop traffic, DAs are sitting in their cars waiting for people exiting and executing turn arounds in the middle of the road that take 5 minutes to complete.  Obscenities screamed are less than professional.  Vandalism outside the site, harrassment etc, gives the brothers a black eye in the eyes of the community.
(driving by Managers house, screaming obscenities at his wife and 5yo child, then speeding off - COWARDS...  pulling up next to somebody, cursing them and calling them names, throwing coffee on them, then speeding off - COWARDS, rapping your signs on cars as they drive by, then ducking into the crowd - COWARDS)
You have the support of alot of mgmt working inside but slowly losing it along with the respect you earned when working together.
Your beef isn't with a soul on site, but with the folks in Boston, why is it only some of the workforce understands that?  Is it that this just gives you chance to act like neanderthals and blame it on the strike.

Remember when it's all over you have to walk thru the fence, win or lose and work right beside the folks that you've been treating like crap.

Good luck

Offline Frankie Love

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #42 on: Jul 19, 2011, 12:12 »
Quote
Remember when it's all over you have to walk thru the fence, win or lose and work right beside the folks that you've been treating like crap.


Obviously, those "slugs" forget what got them to the happy place of decent wages. Toss em all and start over. Ungrateful knuckleheads that they are...

duke99301

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #43 on: Jul 25, 2011, 02:53 »
I just want  to know who is staffing?

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #44 on: Jul 25, 2011, 03:48 »
even our captain used to say "send the boat out to sea with the blueshirts and it will come back dirty, sent it out with the khakis....." and well, you know the rest.

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #45 on: Jul 25, 2011, 04:12 »
I'll chime in here. IRL Fan worked for me (with me) for 15 years, 2 years of which we worked directly together when I was the FIN Team manager at Fermi.
He's an I and C tech, a highly motivated one and in my opinion one of the top 10 people from ANY department that I have ever worked with. Quite simply the guy knows his crap, and not only from a procedure standpoint. He's alert, knows how stuff works and is one of the few who can take a work order that simply says figure it out and fix it, then do so in a manner that it stays fixed. I was also at that facility during the time frame he was discussing. Two TS 3.0.3 entries and Three LERs due directly to not having the professionals from the craft being in that plant. Yes of course many supervisors can do said jobs, but what about those supervisors who did not grow up at that facility? That is getting more common every day and IIRC the individuals making said errors were either people who were supervisors without craft experience, OR supervisors who were made supervisors for reasons other than competence and yes there are lots of those.

I doubt there people bypassing safety and the like. But no way is that plant being run as well as when you have highly trained craft professionals on the job.

And I'll say it again, I would work with John long before I'd work with virtually everyone I've worked with in 27 years of Nuke Power his analysis in this case is dead on.


duke99301

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #46 on: Jul 26, 2011, 04:11 »
all of the above is why  they created contractors. someone has to help. 11 years of  of hanford showed me that.

Offline justme

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #47 on: Jul 27, 2011, 08:35 »
Strike is over.  Workers back to work starting today.
It is what it is!

drayer54

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #48 on: Jul 27, 2011, 09:52 »
Strike is over.  Workers back to work starting today.
the outcome?

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #49 on: Jul 27, 2011, 10:00 »
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/nine_mile_point_nuclear_plant_1.html


Syracuse, N.Y. -- Union workers at the Nine Mile Point nuclear plants will return to their jobs over the next few days after approving a new 4-year contract that ends their 18-day strike.

Employees will get 2 percent raises each year of the contract, which was approved 395-64 in voting that took place Monday night and Tuesday.

Some 460 workers who walked off the job July 9 will return to work in groups of 60 to 100 per day under a “reintegration plan” devised by plant owner Constellation Energy Nuclear Group, said Sam Belcher, vice president.

The issue that sparked the strike — a dispute over pension benefits — was resolved to the satisfaction of union members, said Theodore Skerpon, president of Local 97 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.

“We took care of the pension issue that we went out on,” he said.

Some veteran employees “took a little hit” on their pension benefits, while more recent hires won improved pensions, but the overall package was better than what the union rejected in early July, Skerpon said.

Union members on July 6 rejected a 5-year deal that offered 13.6 percent wage increases over the full term.

Constellation officials said Tuesday that the new agreement “rearranged the pieces” to satisfy both sides, but kept the overall economics comparable to the original offer.

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Offline Starkist

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #50 on: Jul 27, 2011, 03:42 »
all of the above is why  they created contractors. someone has to help. 11 years of  of hanford showed me that.

Contract operator? Sign me up.... lol



Im curious how the reintegration process works. Seems like there would be some tension build up. What prevents management from making silly policies to try to weed out the strikers? I guess im too low on the totem pole to understand union dynamics....

Fermi2

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #51 on: Jul 27, 2011, 06:02 »
Congrats.

StarKist probably won't be too bad. You have some that will take it hard on both sides no matter what, most will just go with the flow.

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #52 on: Jul 27, 2011, 07:56 »
Contract operator? Sign me up.... lol



Im curious how the reintegration process works. Seems like there would be some tension build up. What prevents management from making silly policies to try to weed out the strikers? I guess im too low on the totem pole to understand union dynamics....

As far as weeding out strikers, are you talking about preventing them from coming back into the plant? 

As far as Union dynamics, when a strike is called all Union members are expected to honor the picket line.  When the strike is over everyone comes back to work.  It sounds like they should all be back to work over the course of 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. 

The better thing will be to get back to work and into the normal routine.  The best thing would have been for it to have never happened but it's too late for that.  Here's hoping it was short enough that what passes for normal in the nuclear world is achieved soon.
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Offline Laundry Man

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #53 on: Jul 28, 2011, 09:01 »
I observed the lingering after effects of the strike at Oyster Creek.  It wasn't pretty even after several years.  I truly hope the "reintegration" goes a little better at Nine Mile.
LM

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Re: Nine Mile Point workers on strike
« Reply #54 on: Jul 30, 2011, 09:36 »
It sounds like they should all be back to work over the course of 1 to 1 1/2 weeks. 

The workers will be back to work within 4 days, by the 1st.
No issues, other than hurt feelings on both sides.
Never noticed an overabundance of love between bargaining and Mgmt in the past, environment inside prob won't experience any noticeable change.

 


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