DOT Physical

[Chick]

Would a failed DOT physical for the FAA come into play for a nuclear clearance? I refused  a DOT physical a year ago and had to go through 12 hours of drug counseling. I waited 2 hours for the drug test and walked out, they put me down as a refusal and the only way to get it cleared up was to do the counseling.

I figured they would ask if I had any drug treatment and that would bring the issue up but wanted to see if anybody knew if this would even be an issue at all..

thanks for any info


chick

[Graphic]

Would a failed DOT physical for the FAA come into play for a nuclear clearance? I refused  a DOT physical a year ago and had to go through 12 hours of drug counseling. I waited 2 hours for the drug test and walked out, they put me down as a refusal and the only way to get it cleared up was to do the counseling.

I figured they would ask if I had any drug treatment and that would bring the issue up but wanted to see if anybody knew if this would even be an issue at all..

thanks for any info


chick

Yes it would come into play. The drug counseling helps your cause so you would definitely want to find the paperwork showing you cleared the course. You will have to provide a 5 year work history, or to your 18th birthday whichever period is shortest, due to the drug related offense (even though it wasn't an arrest.. it was a refusal to test).

As long as you don't have any criminal record, especially one drug/alcohol related, then you should be okay. Doesn't mean you will necessarily get in but you have a good chance since it was outside a year and you already completed the rehab. Also if there were any mitigating circumstances that you can prove that may help your cause then you should write it down in the description of why you refused the test.

I would say you have a better chance of getting in than not getting in ... as long as that is the only thing you've ever done "bad".

Goodluck if you have anymore details or maybe some more info maybe could help you more.

[MacGyver]

Would a failed DOT physical for the FAA come into play for a nuclear clearance? I refused  a DOT physical a year ago and had to go through 12 hours of drug counseling. I waited 2 hours for the drug test and walked out, they put me down as a refusal and the only way to get it cleared up was to do the counseling.

I figured they would ask if I had any drug treatment and that would bring the issue up but wanted to see if anybody knew if this would even be an issue at all..

thanks for any info


chick

I know that Graphic is the FFD expert on the site.  But, Refusal's are the SAME as a Positive Test.  Regardless of the reason.  You're lucky they didn't do more than make you attend counseling.

Maybe it works out.  But, again, in this economy?  I hope you are a praying man and have others praying for you too.

[Chick]

Hi,
Thanks for the replies Graphic and Macgyver...I appreciate the comments/Info...

regards

Chick

[Chick]

Hi,
Actually it was not a year ago it was more like January. I did not realize the repercussions of walking out on the DOT test since I had never had one. The job did not pay anything and I just did not feel like hanging around any longer that day.

I got a letter a few weeks later saying I would need to go to a Counselor to get evaluated before I could get a return to duty clearance...That little episode cost me about $1000. I told him what happened and I have never used any kind of drugs so he gave me 12 hours of counseling.

I did not get any kind of paperwork from him...he said that he would send it to the company and that anybody else who wanted to verify that I had completed the counseling would contact them to get the verification.

If they ask me about it I will be honest.

thanks

chick

[Chick]

hi,
sorry i don't have a clue what you are trying to say..."100 quatloos against"...could you be serious and just reply without the harsh comments and ridicule?


Thanks

chick

[Nuclear NASCAR]

1. Keep all replies to a message on topic; ANY off topic messages will be deleted. (This includes witticisms, and smart remarks.) Feel free to create witty topics in the correct area.

4. Please learn to be respectful, tolerate and support each other.  NukeWorker.com's goal is to help others, not see how many people we can annoy. Do not initiate arguments or tension. This will only cause the triggering of other members and make this site less professional.


Reposted especially for those who seem to ignore & forget them.  Believe me gents (benefit of the doubt) I get as tired of reminding you of them as you do.  Quite frankly it looks to the uninformed like you're just a bunch of crabby old men with very little life other than putting the new guy (or gal) down every chance you get.

I remember a great sage of the site who would take an opportunity such as this to point a newbie in the right direction quite unlike what is seen in this thread.  I miss that guy, he sure added a LOT of class to situations like this.

[MacGyver]

I checked with a buddy at work (ex-DOT FFD type employee from way back) & he indicated you might want to go back & get everything in writing.  Also, this will get reported when you fill out your paperwork.  It is impossible to determine your chances of success.  So, get everything (re: paperwork) in order for them now before that prospective company asks.  Again, to repeat myself, hiring these days is a quick process once the ball starts rolling.  So get it all together (re: paperwork you don't have) now before you are asked.  Let me clear about something though.  You will need to learn to control your emotions if you want to work in nuclear.  Because if waiting to pee in a cup frustrates you then you ain't seen nothing yet!

[Chick]

Hi,
Thanks for the reply Macgyver and the rest...just so you know I have worked at Maine Yankee, Comanche peak, Vermont Yankee and Tihange.

I do not think you the Person who got the DOT violation can obtain any paperwork to carry around and present. The process calls for any DOT position you apply for to go back and verify with the employer that you had the violation with to determine if you met the requirements prescribed by the SAP "substance abuse professional"...I was given 12 hours of counseling which i completed. He signed me off and notified the company I got the violation from. Like I said the new company has to get up with the company the violation originated from...as far as I know there is no documents provided to the person.

As I mentioned I had never taken a DOT physical before and the job only paid $16 an hour..so lesson learned the hard way...

But I do appreciate the information and you taking the time to provide a response.

I am just asking a bunch of questions since it's been awhile since I had a clearance. anyway I got all the paperwork from the site today about training and stuff and have not even got any background check paperwork yet...that seems kind of funny...but yeah it goes fast since i am starting next week...

regards

chick

[Starkist]

*Note* Im no professional, and Im quiet inexperienced**

Chick, after going through my recent trials and tribulations with security clearance, I promise you, they already know, or will find out very quickly. I quit a job after 2 weeks working with them, left amicably and my supervisors wished me well on my journeys, and I didnt report it.  I did not put them down as a work refernence, merely because I felt like  I hadnt worked there long enough to matter at all. Well, about 2 weeks into my clearance, I get phone calls from my old boss telling me a strange lady called and asked him questions about me and my (insinuating) "drug habits" and other extremely personal information he had no clue about. I was shocked and awed they managed to dig that up like that.


Now what I dont understand, is you have apparent experience, and you were implying you are going to cover things up. If you have had access authorization before, you should know how detailed they go into these things, which really begs the question "why are you here?". Sorry to be crass, but if you're thinking about lying or "leaving out" (aka, "lying") items on your questionaire, it just doesnt jive with me very well.

Job pay doesnt matter. You made the mistake, you live with the consequences. If they dont approve you, appeal it with your statments. I recommend emailing "Graphic", our resident SME on access authorization about things you can do to help your case.


Finally, have some modicum of faith in yourself. They took me, and as some here know, its quite remarkable they did!!!  An honest nights sleep is worth much more then a job that pays more then 30$ an hour, I can vouch for that. Forgive my rant, Im ideological and voice my opinions more then I should, but I honestly feel you are better served just flat out being honest.

[Graphic]

I didn't see the posts before so some of this thread is a little confusing. That is beside the point really though..

I would definitely have the name of the substance abuse counselor and his/her office that way you can list it in your PHQ so the screener can have an easier time trying to get the paperwork faxed over or mailed from them.

I mean if you have had access before you should have SOME memory of the process but I do deal with a lot of people that come in on your typical shutdown and just forget the whole process. Either way that is a moot point but whatever you do just list that you failed the test. IF you don't and they find out, which they probably will, then you will be denied for a good while. It's never good to be denied for failure to list those type of things in PADS for future clearance.

So you will have to list that you failed on the self disclosure where it asks if you have ever refused or failed a test. You will also need to list the job in your PHQ under your work history even though you didnt technically ever work there. This will have to be verified by the screener as well. The company will probably only have that you failed test or whatever. A lot of companies don't even give out that type of information. Some companies give only dates you worked and position you worked. Some will release ALL information with the consent form you signed in your PHQ which releases that information.

All I can really say is to be honest and upfront about it all. You will have an interview with the psych and you will need to tell him/her your situation and what the deal was. After that he will decide if he thinks your counseling was sufficient to recommend clearance in their eyes. Even if he clears you, access can still deny you but it definitely helps if he/she recommends you for unescorted access. Also remember to go back 5 years in your work history EVERY job will have to be verified due to the drug/alcohol related charge so it is in your best interest to make sure to have phone numbers/city/state and any information that will make the job easier for background. Background only has 5 days to get an initial clearance done, barring extenuating circumstances. A lot of plants give a 5 day temporary badge and if your clearance isn't done by then.. well you won't be getting back in till it is. That usually leads to a 'layoff' unless you are just someone they realllly realllly need.

Honesty is what it is all about.

Goodluck

[Graphic]

I checked with a buddy at work (ex-DOT FFD type employee from way back) & he indicated you might want to go back & get everything in writing.  Also, this will get reported when you fill out your paperwork.  It is impossible to determine your chances of success.  So, get everything (re: paperwork) in order for them now before that prospective company asks.  Again, to repeat myself, hiring these days is a quick process once the ball starts rolling.  So get it all together (re: paperwork you don't have) now before you are asked.  Let me clear about something though.  You will need to learn to control your emotions if you want to work in nuclear.  Because if waiting to pee in a cup frustrates you then you ain't seen nothing yet!

He was spot on .

[Chick]

Hi,
Thanks for the replies. I have 20 jobs to report for the last 5 years. most of them shutdowns/outages. This is why I was asking about omitting some projects. I have all the contact info and will list them on the documentation.

I also have the SAP's info and will pony that up too. I completed the SAP's recommended treatment and have NEVER used drugs. I walked out on a test...that simple.

It's been a longtime since I was badged and things have changed. When I was last badged they did a background check but nothing like what I am expecting this go around. Just don't want to drive 1000 miles and get turned down.

I will be 100% upfront and let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully they will take me as is since I am pretty sure they need me. I will let you all know how things turn out.

Thanks again for the info.

regards

Chick

[Graphic]

I know it sucks, but don't leave any jobs out. Simply because of the fact that you refused a test. Lets just say you go and list only 13 of them.. well if they found out you had another job and you didn't list it then you will more than likely get denied because they HAVE to verify every job and in this case the requirement is even more stringent because you have a drug related offense. I know you say you didn't do drugs and that is fine but it doesn't matter to the NRC if you got arrested or not or if it was dismissed or not.

So I know it sucks but just try to list every job the best you can. If you are in a union call your union hall and get them to help you with dates. If you have to you can get a tax statement from IRS showing where you paid in the past 5 years.

I still think you will be okay. The only downfall might be the fact that it was less than a year ago... but I think with the completed SAP, which is what they would make you do as is, you should have a pretty good shot to get through. It's a tough situation not knowing and seeing your history in front of me because there are so many little mitigating circumstances in these situations.

Goodluck though feel free to ask anything else.

[Chick]

Hi Graphic,
It's nice to see there are some good folks on this site! Yes it sucks but I am making a spreadsheet that I will list each and every employer. I also will pony up the refusal information. You got me scared because you keep calling it an OFFENSE but DOT calls it a VIOLATION I guess I am splitting hairs. I did not get into any trouble over it but if I wanted to go back to a DOT job (which anything in the refineries or North Slope of Alaska is DOT now a days) you must have completed the SAP's recommended treatment. He knew the situation and believed me so he gave me the lowest number of hours he ever gave out...it cost me about $1000 for his fees and the counseling but it's over and done with now.

I am just going to lay it all out and see what happens. I figure they will just look at my stuff and decide I am too much trouble to deal with even though there is nothing to terrible in there. I have no criminal history and I had a secret clearance a couple years ago. So it's just a matter of the extensive work history and the DOT violation.

I figure I will go for it and see what happens. It's a contract job so when the contractor see all of this they may not even send me an offer letter! but i think they need me pretty bad right now and may decide to let me slide.

Should I also list my hunting violation I got about 7 years ago? I shot a deer that was not legal and paid a fine.

I had two speeding tickets in the last 7 years and paid them.

I can see that you have helped a bunch of people on here and you seem to do it with respect for all and that is a plus for yourself and this site.

I do appreciate your help.

regards

chick


Account deleted at members request

[Graphic]

Hi Graphic,
It's nice to see there are some good folks on this site! Yes it sucks but I am making a spreadsheet that I will list each and every employer. I also will pony up the refusal information. You got me scared because you keep calling it an OFFENSE but DOT calls it a VIOLATION I guess I am splitting hairs. I did not get into any trouble over it but if I wanted to go back to a DOT job (which anything in the refineries or North Slope of Alaska is DOT now a days) you must have completed the SAP's recommended treatment. He knew the situation and believed me so he gave me the lowest number of hours he ever gave out...it cost me about $1000 for his fees and the counseling but it's over and done with now.

I am just going to lay it all out and see what happens. I figure they will just look at my stuff and decide I am too much trouble to deal with even though there is nothing to terrible in there. I have no criminal history and I had a secret clearance a couple years ago. So it's just a matter of the extensive work history and the DOT violation.

I figure I will go for it and see what happens. It's a contract job so when the contractor see all of this they may not even send me an offer letter! but i think they need me pretty bad right now and may decide to let me slide.

Should I also list my hunting violation I got about 7 years ago? I shot a deer that was not legal and paid a fine.

I had two speeding tickets in the last 7 years and paid them.

I can see that you have helped a bunch of people on here and you seem to do it with respect for all and that is a plus for yourself and this site.

I do appreciate your help.

regards

chick

I just say offense.. I guess technically it is only a violation in a sense because it isn't illegal to fail or refuse a drug test.. it just looks bad. Call it what you will but anything drug/alcohol related.. offense..violation whatever you want to call it within the past 5 years is automatically going to make you do the expanded work history, have an interview with psych(some positions require interview as is) and then the psych will determine whether he or she thinks you are fit for duty. The only thing that could really hurt you, in my opinion, is the fact that it was recent. You do have the counseling though which is key but because it is within a year if they don't believe your story they may not give you a chance. I just think if you have held clearance before and never had any type of criminal history besides shooting Bambi then you have a better chance than one may think. Most situations will vary so there are always mitigating circumstances like I said. As long as access falls within procedures then they are fine.. and I have seen many people gain access before for same type situation.. although I can't say it was 6 months prior to them trying to gain access that they refused a test.. more in the 1-2 year range.

I would give it a shot. Worst case scenario they deny you a year and tell you to come back. You already have the rehab taken care of .. time is of the essence in these situations a lot.

I would list the hunting violation. You don't have to list speeding tickets as long as you weren't detained or arrested for them.

[Graphic]

I'm all for humor but sometimes there is no need for certain comments and I will continue to delete them.


That being said if anyone has anything helpful to offer then feel free. If you don't like what I have to say or can show me where I am wrong then feel free. I've said it 100 times and I will say it again.. every site handles situations differently. Procedures only have to be followed but any site can go above and beyond that if they feel fit. For instance Perry, who is known not to attract, might be a little less strict if they can't meet their ramp up than a plant that is more desirable to people.

[Graphic]

If they didn't get it the first 100 times you said it (in only 59 posts) it isn't likely they'll get it at all.  Save your breath.

You aren't factoring in all the private messages. I think I get more PM's than people post in the forum itself.