Is AO operations?

[Hitec757]

Looking through the job listings there are hundreds of job titles.  Seems some companies have different names for similar jobs.  Trying to figure out what jobs fall under operations?

[Bigchris]

Hello Hitec757,

AO often stands for auxiliary operator.  AO, RO and SRO are operational positions. Others here may have a more complete list. 

If you search AO on this site you will find more info. In fact, if you search any term you see employers using, you should be able to find a lot of useful info here.

Good luck with your next career and welcome to Nukeworker.

Bigchris

[Starkist]

All the same :

apprentice operator
auxilliary operator
nuclear equipment operator
senior nuclear equipment operator
equipment operator
non licensed operator


all are under the same cadre.

[Bradtv]

Palisades (Entergy) AOs are now going by NPO (Nuclear Plant Operators).

I'm not sure if thats company wide.

[retired nuke]

Palisades (Entergy) AOs are now going by NPO (Nuclear Plant Operators).

I'm not sure if thats company wide.

Nope, not at this time...

[Higgs]

At BV they are going by "Plant operator."

So many different names for the same thing.

[Hitec757]

Thanks guys, all good answers.  The different titles makes it very difficult to identify the correct jobs I may be interested in.  Another job title is "control room operator."  Its listed here on site as a job title but a search shows almost nothing on it and other job searches have shown no listings.  I'm wondering how much difference there is in actual job functions between the names at different companies.  My concern is that operations is where I want to be and although I realize I may not be able to start there, I certainly want to make sure any job I might get offered is in-line with a natural progression to move into Ops.

[HydroDave63]

Thanks guys, all good answers.  The different titles makes it very difficult to identify the correct jobs I may be interested in.  Another job title is "control room operator."  Its listed here on site as a job title but a search shows almost nothing on it and other job searches have shown no listings.  I'm wondering how much difference there is in actual job functions between the names at different companies.  My concern is that operations is where I want to be and although I realize I may not be able to start there, I certainly want to make sure any job I might get offered is in-line with a natural progression to move into Ops.

The natural question at this point is: What KSAs do you bring to the table?

[Hitec757]

Fair question.   Bachelor's degree in a non technical field.  20+ years as an air traffic controller for the FAA, airframe&powerplant mechanic (aircraft), 9 pilot certificates, aircraft dispatcher, certified electronics technician, FCC GROL with radar endorsement(the old FCC 1st class license).  Zero nuke experience.

[Higgs]

Non-licensed variety. You could easily get hired for one of those.

[Hitec757]

Tell me if I'm correct in this, but my reasoning for AO first was that since I have zero nuke experience, that AO would give me a good foot in the door and NLO would be be a good next step.  NLO seems to this outsider as a  big step for a first timer in the industry?  Do they really teach you everything you need or are you treading water for a long time?  I like to exceed in what I do and take a lot of pride in my work and wouldn't mind starting as a AO if it would make me a better NLO if I went that route.  Maybe if I knew more about specific training programs a company has for new NLO's I'd be more comfortable starting at that level.  I got several books from the library, but little is mentioned about the real job description and duties, even in the DOL books.

[jams723]

Fair question.   Bachelor's degree in a non technical field.  20+ years as an air traffic controller for the FAA, airframe&powerplant mechanic (aircraft), 9 pilot certificates, aircraft dispatcher, certified electronics technician, FCC GROL with radar endorsement(the old FCC 1st class license).  Zero nuke experience.

To be honest, there is nothing to set you apart from other applicants.

[Hitec757]

Wow, there are some highly qualified people then to compete with outside of those that had nuke experience, which I clearly can't compete with.

"The FAA A&P License is 1,900 hours of classroom, 87 college credit hours, and practical instruction that has many skills similar to that needed in the energy industry.  A partial listing of the A&P subjects I was trained in include: basic electricity/drawings/fluid lines & fittings/materials & processes/corrosion control/mathematics/basic physics/maintenance publications/sheet metal and non-metallic structures/welding/assembly and rigging/hydraulic & pneumatic, instrument, electrical, position & warning, lubrication systems/propellers/auxiliary power systems and turbine engines."

I thought maybe not all other applicants had that type of training, although I'm sure some have much more.

[Higgs]

Tell me if I'm correct in this, but my reasoning for AO first was that since I have zero nuke experience, that AO would give me a good foot in the door and NLO would be be a good next step.  NLO seems to this outsider as a  big step for a first timer in the industry?  Do they really teach you everything you need or are you treading water for a long time?  I like to exceed in what I do and take a lot of pride in my work and wouldn't mind starting as a AO if it would make me a better NLO if I went that route.  Maybe if I knew more about specific training programs a company has for new NLO's I'd be more comfortable starting at that level.  I got several books from the library, but little is mentioned about the real job description and duties, even in the DOL books.

It is just NLO. They are all the same thing, just different names.

I disagree with Jams, you show a clear ability to be trained and have a lot of life and relevant experience that I think would set you apart some. But it will be different utility to utility. I know in mine, you'd have a great shot.

And yes, they teach you everything you need to know.

[Hitec757]

I'm sure its not easy to get  an operations/NLO job so I'm planning on strengthening my resume by taking another physics class and one on "intro to nuclear power" or something similar, although I'm sure nuclear credit will have to be a distance-learning class as its not a common subject for many colleges.  At least the nuclear class will show some knowledge of the industry on my part, even though it will be very basic and elementary.  If nothing else it shows dedication to learning.

[Higgs]

It certainly won't hurt!

Good luck!

Justin

[Starkist]

Keep going in your education and you can step into engineering. My 28 year old engineer friend is now doing instant SRO class as we speak...  We hired such an eclectic class, and most of my plants NLO's have a seemingly RANDOM back ground, and navy nukes are a minority here. I think we have 7 navy NLOs? You should get a well made resume together and see what you can do, it wont hurt.

[Higgs]

Keep going in your education and you can step into engineering. My 28 year old engineer friend is now doing instant SRO class as we speak...  We hired such an eclectic class, and most of my plants NLO's have a seemingly RANDOM back ground, and navy nukes are a minority here. I think we have 7 navy NLOs? You should get a well made resume together and see what you can do, it wont hurt.

Yeah nukes are a minority in my current class and our current NLO class as well. The current NLO class has a guy with almost his exact background... in the aviation fields. That is why I think he has a great shot. This other guy beat out 200 other people.

[jams723]

Wow, there are some highly qualified people then to compete with outside of those that had nuke experience, which I clearly can't compete with.

"The FAA A&P License is 1,900 hours of classroom, 87 college credit hours, and practical instruction that has many skills similar to that needed in the energy industry.  A partial listing of the A&P subjects I was trained in include: basic electricity/drawings/fluid lines & fittings/materials & processes/corrosion control/mathematics/basic physics/maintenance publications/sheet metal and non-metallic structures/welding/assembly and rigging/hydraulic & pneumatic, instrument, electrical, position & warning, lubrication systems/propellers/auxiliary power systems and turbine engines."

I thought maybe not all other applicants had that type of training, although I'm sure some have much more.

And your inability to take even a hint of criticism (i.e thin skin) might be a liability.  I gave my opinion and you immediately went sarcastic and defensinve.  More power to ya, and I still stand by my opinion.

[MacGyver]

The real question is "IF" a utility thinks you are trainable.  (That's IF you get past their HR dept.) 

You are definitely trainable.  But, age may be a factor.  With the current retirement trend most utilities are looking at younger candidates.  Though most will still look at a maturity factor too. 

My guess is with most plants are looking for good fit with "LOCAL's" to fill positions so you might have a difficult (ie not impossible) task if you don't have a "local" (eg too you) nuclear generation plant. 

As for taking on-line classes .. It is not rare or hard too find good college's with said classes / programs.  And, it would help considering your lack of nuclear & indusrial experience.  Try also looking for true entry level jobs.  Like "helper" or "nuclear technician" or "janitor" (pun intended).  They are easier to get into & move on to operations later (eg union shops). 

Where have you applied & what have been the responses?  Are you willing too move if you don't have a local plant in your area?  (*Sent by a dumb ph*)

[Hitec757]

Jams723

Came from an industry that requires a thicker skin than yours, stop patting yourself on the back.  And your right, it was criticism, where none was needed.  Opinions are great and that was what I was looking for and many great people gave that.  Even your comment made me think I can still improve my resume and I'll be taking extra courses so don't say its a liability.  From what I've read on this site, seems many get in with little technical knowledge or degree's in non technical areas.  The list of training for my A&P which was 80+ semester hours after my Bachelor's seems to have a lot of relevance to a power plant above someone without it.  If being an air traffic controller at a large facility is not what you call fast paced, high stress demanding and technical with virtually no room for errors, well I guess that wouldn't set me apart, but you'd be wrong.  The FAA is about the only agency that is allowed to not hire anyone after the age of 31 because the skill set required and the ability to learn the field and perform rapidly deteriorates past that point for most.  Those are simple facts and the rules.  And none of that training or skill set would make for a good NLO?  I won't even get into my pilot ratings, the aircraft I fly and the fact I teach people to fly.  Yeah, there's no multi-tasking or technical knowledge needed to fly a twin turboprop to minimums single pilot.  Maybe it will transfer over well, maybe not.  But don't think your job is the only important one out there, I may be new on the forum but not new to a high pressure industry.  Thanks for your input, I did learn something from it.

[MacGyver]

Just because you were successful in another career field doesn't auto-matically mean that will be the case here in nuclear.  It's great stuff for an interview though.  You might want to expand your search to other utility company's (other than just TVA).  You might look for nuclear technician jobs at Sothern Nuclear Company.  Honestly you are not competitive for their SO (system operator / non-licensed operator) positions.  You could then transfer to operations via a union bid.  This path is for someone with your experience.

[Hitec757]

Just because you were successful in another career field doesn't auto-matically mean that will be the case here in nuclear.  It's great stuff for an interview though.  You might want to expand your search to other utility company's (other than just TVA).  You might look for nuclear technician jobs at Sothern Nuclear Company.  Honestly you are not competitive for their SO (system operator / non-licensed operator) positions.  You could then transfer to operations via a union bid.  This path is for someone with your experience.

I agree, that's why I said " Maybe it will transfer over well, maybe not." Same way the fields best SRO may not make it it mine, two different animals, I understand that.  Reference your great earlier post, I have not applied anywhere yet until I get a better understanding of the jobs, the companies and the industry.  Still so much more to research and finding out what each job does in detail.  Then I'll try to find a company that I like and a general geographic location and start applying and I can even move there w/o an offer if it helps, and it sounds like it might.  I think another month or two and I'll have a good idea.  The courses are not as easy to find as I thought, nei has a site that lists them, most are classroom only, few have been independent and the large Univ's in my area only have the nuclear engineering version.  Thanks for your constructive comments.

[MacGyver]

Again, to be clear, we have a couple of ex-airline guys working for us in the control room.  They had previous navy nuclear experience though.  And they told me it has a lot of equal intensity parts.  But, nuclear power is much more intense in more areas than flying.  To be successful in both fields requires focused attention to detail & a daily pursuit of execellence.  If you have that then you can be successful.  As for distance learning, try Bismark, Excelsior and Thomas Edison.  Bismark adcertises here I believe.  I'd give you links but alas I am on my pit'ful dumb phone.


Update:
Bismark State College and their NUPT program

Excelsior
Classes upcoming
Student Success CCS-112 Success Strategies for Military and Veterans Online September 8
Student Success CCS-112 Success Strategies for Military and Veterans Online November 8
Student Success CCS-112 Success Strategies for Military and Veterans Online January 8
Student Success CCS-120 EC Success Seminar Online September 8
Student Success CCS-120 EC Success Seminar Online November 8
Student Success CCS-120 EC Success Seminar Online January 8
Student Success CCS-201 Introduction to Prior Learning and Portfolio Development Online September 8
Student Success CCS-201 Introduction to Prior Learning and Portfolio Development Online November 8
Student Success CCS-201 Introduction to Prior Learning and Portfolio Development Online January 8
Information Literacy INL-102 Information Literacy Online September 8
Information Literacy INL-102 Information Literacy Online November 8
Information Literacy INL-102 Information Literacy Online January 8
Nuclear Technology NUC-240 Atomic and Nuclear Physics Online November 8
Nuclear Technology NUC-245 Thermodynamics Online January 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-255 Electrical Theory Online September 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-320 Materials Online September 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-320 Materials Online November 8
Nuclear Technology NUC-325 Nuclear Materials Online September 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-330 Reactor Core Fundamentals Online September 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-330 Reactor Core Fundamentals Online November 8
Nuclear Technology NUC-350 Plant Systems Overview Online September 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-350 Plant Systems Overview Online January 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-495 Integrated Technology Assessment Online September 15
Nuclear Technology NUC-495 Integrated Technology Assessment Online January 15

Thomas Edison and their NET program

[Starkist]

Just wanted to chime in, average age of my class of NLO's is around 34. We hired in a 4X year old as well. He didnt make it though :-/

[Hitec757]

It really is a crap shoot at times with people making it in different careers.  In mine I've seen airline pilots, officers from all different specialty's, people with masters degree's and even some with bachelor's in the field fail while others with just some college and no previous experience do quite well.  The key seems to be a good combination of skills from both the technical side and the ability to think on your feet.  Like common sense, it is either there or it isn't, you simply can't teach everything.

[jams723]

Jams723

Came from an industry that requires a thicker skin than yours, stop patting yourself on the back.  And your right, it was criticism, where none was needed.  Opinions are great and that was what I was looking for and many great people gave that.  Even your comment made me think I can still improve my resume and I'll be taking extra courses so don't say its a liability.  From what I've read on this site, seems many get in with little technical knowledge or degree's in non technical areas.  The list of training for my A&P which was 80+ semester hours after my Bachelor's seems to have a lot of relevance to a power plant above someone without it.  If being an air traffic controller at a large facility is not what you call fast paced, high stress demanding and technical with virtually no room for errors, well I guess that wouldn't set me apart, but you'd be wrong.  The FAA is about the only agency that is allowed to not hire anyone after the age of 31 because the skill set required and the ability to learn the field and perform rapidly deteriorates past that point for most.  Those are simple facts and the rules.  And none of that training or skill set would make for a good NLO?  I won't even get into my pilot ratings, the aircraft I fly and the fact I teach people to fly.  Yeah, there's no multi-tasking or technical knowledge needed to fly a twin turboprop to minimums single pilot.  Maybe it will transfer over well, maybe not.  But don't think your job is the only important one out there, I may be new on the forum but not new to a high pressure industry.  Thanks for your input, I did learn something from it.

Yawn, nope, now I am sure you will not make it..... But prove me wrong....

[Hitec757]

Yawn, nope, now I am sure you will not make it..... But prove me wrong....

Would love to see you take a swing in my field hot shot.  The bus ticket home and the kleenex will be provided for you.

[jams723]

Would love to see you take a swing in my field hot shot.  The bus ticket home and the kleenex will be provided for you.

Laughs... I have no interest in your field.... And you might note, you are the only one getting hot under the collar.

Of course you never know, I might not know anything about this nuclear field either... But you are fun to spin up.

[MacGyver]

I can smell a LOCK in this threads future.

[Higgs]

Yeah, because a bunch of people are talking out their a$$es. He is easily hire able. End of story.

[jams723]

I can smell a LOCK in this threads future.

Laughs, you are probably correct.

[jams723]

Yeah, because a bunch of people are talking out their a$$es. He is easily hire able. End of story.

No, not a bunch of people. Just me, but that is my opinion.

[Higgs]

I am really just surprised at how fast this thread went to crap. But then again, I am not sure why I am surprised anymore.

[Hitec757]

Laughs... I have no interest in your field.... And you might note, you are the only one getting hot under the collar.

Of course you never know, I might not know anything about this nuclear field either... But you are fun to spin up.

Spun up? Your killing me.  This is toy time, you'll have to do better than that.  I can nap through this quick witted exchange.  No hard feelings here.  

[HydroDave63]

I am really just surprised at how fast this thread went to crap. But then again, I am not sure why I am surprised anymore.

You know it is a sign of doom...when Starkist, MacGyver and TheHiggs are the voice of reason in a thread! 

[Rennhack]

Children, please behave.

[MacGyver]

The natural question at this point is: What KSAs do you bring to the table?

Fair question.   Bachelor's degree in a non technical field.  20+ years as an air traffic controller for the FAA, airframe&powerplant mechanic (aircraft), 9 pilot certificates, aircraft dispatcher, certified electronics technician, FCC GROL with radar endorsement(the old FCC 1st class license).  Zero nuke experience.

I'll tell you the same thing I told another hopeful trying to transition to Nuclear Power.  Get your fundamentals in order.  Two main sources are GP (copyrighted) and DOE Handbooks (free-ware).  Most Nuclear Plants use GP (General Physics).  Some use the DOE Handbooks.

Though you will be offered a chance to prove yourself if hired.  The pace of the training will be much faster than you have ever witnessed.  Thusly it would behove you to get a head start on the one area you should have down cold if you wish to be successful.

DOE Handbooks

This will get you started. 
DOE-HDBK-1010-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Classical Physics (142 pages)
PDF (1120 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 1 of 4 (166 pages)
PDF (4255 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 2 of 4 (118 pages)
PDF (3317 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/3-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 3 of 4 (126 pages)
PDF (2234 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/4-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 4 of 4 (142 pages)
PDF (4800 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1012/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, and Fluid Flow, Volume 1 of 3 (138 pages)
PDF (2994 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1012/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, and Fluid Flow, Volume 2 of 3 (80 pages)
PDF (1193 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1012/3-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, and Fluid Flow, Volume 3 of 3 (82 pages)
PDF (1214 KB)
DOE-HDBK-1013/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Instrumentation and Control, Volume 1 of 2 (132 pages)
PDF (2639 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1013/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Instrumentation and Control, Volume 2 of 2 (168 pages)
PDF (3504 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1014/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mathematics Volume 1 of 2 (206 pages)
PDF (1436 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1014/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mathematics Volume 2 of 2 (112 pages)
PDF (932 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1015/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Chemistry, Volume 1 of 2 (140 pages)
PDF (3950 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1015/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Chemistry, Volume 2 of 2 (138 pages)
PDF (2898 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1016/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Engineering Symbology, Prints, and Drawings, Volume 1 of 2 (120 pages)
PDF (8231 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1016/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Engineering Symbology, Prints, and Drawings, Volume 2 of 2 (96 pages)
PDF (4453 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1017/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Material Science, Volume 1 of 2 (102 pages)
PDF (2217 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1017/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Material Science, Volume 2 of 2 (112 pages)
PDF (1441 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1018/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mechanical Science, Volume 1 of 2 (139 pages)
PDF (5136 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1018/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mechanical Science, Volume 2 of 2 (130 pages)
PDF (5465 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1019/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Nuclear Physics and Reactor Theory, Volume 1 of 2 (142 pages)
PDF (3464 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1019/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Nuclear Physics and Reactor Theory, Volume 2 of 2 (128 pages)
PDF (1988 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1028-2009 Human Performance Improvement Handbook Volume 1 of 2 (175 pages)
PDF (1066 KB)
DOE-HDBK-1028-2009 Human Performance Improvement Handbook Volume 2 of 2 (137 pages)
PDF (471 KB)
DOE-STD-1029-92
(CH-1) Writer's Guide for Technical Procedures (123 pages)
PDF (546 KB)
DOE-STD-1030-96 Guide to Good Practices for Lockouts and Tagouts (49 pages)
PDF (171 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1031-92
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Communications (31 pages)
PDF (106 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1032-92
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations Organization and Administration (33 pages)
PDF (97.9 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1033-92
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations and Administration Updates Through Required Reading (36 pages)
PDF (158 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1034-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Timely Orders to Operators (29 pages)
PDF (73.8 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1035-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Logkeeping (33 pages)
PDF (111 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1036-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Independent Verification (41 pages)
PDF (122 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1037-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations Aspects of Unique Processes (29 pages)
PDF (87 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1038-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations Turnover (38 pages)
PDF (102 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1039-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Control of Equipment and System Status (29 pages)
PDF (91 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum



P.S.
And as a reference to the speed you will work at, you should be able to finish these in approximately 6 weeks.

[Hitec757]

"The pace of the training will be much faster than you have ever witnessed."

My A&P program was 87 semester hours in 16 months, my dispatcher training was 10 hours classroom a day and we all studied an hour or 2 before class and 2-3 hours after class every day for a month. And flight training for anything turboprop or above is known as "taking a drink of water from a fire hose" where all day every day is study from the time you wake til you can't stay awake anymore and you still do the sim for a couple hours a day.  ATC training was 4 months for the initial screen after passing tons of written tests, physical, psychological and the fun begins. 40% failed the classroom, another 20% failed in sims.  Get out into the field and you'll have another 20-30% fail in the process of several years on-the-job training.

Thanks for the DOE info I've been looking for them one by one and thanks to you I now have them all in one spot.  Being offered a chance is all anyone can hope for, I'm sure training is far from easy, I never thought it was.  I don't expect just because I was good in one field to mean that I will be good in another, it is up to me to prove it.  However, thinking that this industry is the only industry that has fast paced training that makes you sit back and say wow, is simply wrong.

I could applying everywhere now, but I'm not as I still need to prepare.  I could be trying to take the POSS/MASS and whatever other screening test I may be hit with, but I'll be hitting the books for a couple months to prepare to do well, not just hope I pass, and I'll do the same for actual training.  Sounds like maybe you have run into too many lazy ass's in the past who expect someone else to carry them or do the work for them.  I like to work, not afraid to do the work needed to over prepare because if I do in fact fail, the only one responsible for that would be me.  I don't like failure, never failed in anything I set my mind to, got a great track record and if that isn't a great foundation for potential success in another field, you'll simple never be convinced.

[Starkist]

NLO isn't fast at all. The pace is reasonably quick, but not even one tenth of navy nuke school. But I wouldn't compare any academic program to license class.

Poss testing has nothing to do with nuclear fundamentals at all. The hiring process is pretty slow as well, so I would advise you start applying now. If you wait a few months and bumble up your poss, then what? You still have to wait. If you pass it now, your fleet will keep your scores for later if you didn't get hired right away. For frame of reference, I applied in september, and didn't interview until late december.  Go to the testing portion of thi s site to see practice exams for the poss. None of the material is in any way difficult, its just stupid fast.

[MacGyver]

Hitec757 "is simply wrong" (re: pace)

Sir, you don't know the first thing about a nuclear power training evolution.  So, it would be persumptious for you to make this commit.  I do know something about yours though.  And, the pace doesn't compare to what you are used too.  Add the fact this information will be almost 100% new to you.  Now I am not saying it is beyond your skill set (re: material presented) but your fire hose example is more like a garden hose to commercial nuclear power (re: license class).  I would know because I work with some navy nukes that have more hours certificates & ratings than you do.  Stop comparing your known to an unknown (for you anyway).  You're just stirring the pot by doing so.  I am told only a handful of aviation types could do it and that came from ex-airline & corporate aviator types.  They all sing the same tune if you were wondering.  Since I deal with facts;  How many pilots certificates are there in the USofA compared to Licensed Operators in Nuclear?

[Hitec757]

I'm stirring the pot?  Really?  I never said nuke was easy nor do I think so and I'm prepared to do the work.  It was YOU who made the statement that I had never seen a learning pace like what I would have for AO?NLO.  You are wrong.  You obviously don't have my background and don't know.  But again, it is you that makes the point that almost no one can be a NLO, its just too tough.

"Since I deal with facts;  How many pilots certificates are there in the USofA compared to Licensed Operators in Nuclear?"

How many "Advanced underwater basketweavers" are there in the US?  Using your logic, they are better trained than you are because there are fewer of them.  Is this the type of common sense required in the job you do?  I hope not.

Did you graduate high school?  Seriously?  What is the need of ATP type-rated pilots in the US compared to the need for Licensed Ops?  You have shown how little you know about aviation and shown how bizzare your logic is in trying to compare total # of pilots, which includes the vast majority of pilots who fly for fun at the private level, to a profession and intense training.

You simply think that no one outside the industry could ever make it in NLO.  You were all hand picked by God.  And you and only you are making an issue out of this. 

If you have a issue with others you have worked with from different fields, take it up with them.  If you want to help, thanks, but all your doing now is putting yourself on a pedestal from which to fall.

[Fermi2]

My brother and cousin were ATC. Both said it wasn't much harder than maybe doing a year of High School in about 6 months. Nowhere near Nuclear.

On the other hand it doesn't really matter. The guy has passed a technical training program. He has the ability to learn.

Won't make it through the training though as the other NLOs will chew him up.

[Hitec757]

"Won't make it through the training though as the other NLOs will chew him up."

Maybe that wont happen if I work somewhere that has professionals who take some pride in their job.

[MacGyver]

*Sigh* ... I know ... I know ... Your a legend in your (own) mind.  If you pass the POSS/MASS & you get hired you can come back & tell us all about NLO (non-licensed operator) training.  (Which is not the same thing as licensed operator training.)  But, considering that you've now insulted bz (a shift manager @ TVA) & several licensed operators; we will be looking for you & your resume in the near future.  Good luck with that one ACE.

[Fermi2]

Best professionals in the country. They simply have a low tolerance for whining. I doubt you'd make it through an interview. It's not the FAA, Nuclear isn't required to take the highest score from each region, we endeavor to get the best ones.
1984. Took the ATC Test. Was chosen. Decided Navy nuke was a better as as I preferred a challenge.

[Hitec757]

Not concerned about someones's hyper-sensitive ego, nor concerned about TVA.  I figured you were one of his butt-buddies and you just confirmed it.  Plenty of other places.  Now knowing what kind of people they hire and what they think constitues a mgr, I'm happy to remove it from my list.  Oh, I forgot, if you don't work for TVA, you're a nobody.  You really are an asset to this field.

[Hitec757]

Best professionals in the country. They simply have a low tolerance for whining. I doubt you'd make it through an interview. It's not the FAA, Nuclear isn't required to take the highest score from each region, we endeavor to get the best ones.
1984. Took the ATC Test. Was chosen. Decided Navy nuke was a better as as I preferred a challenge.

Most likely your Ops Mgr job was a great idea by TVA to get you out of the Ops area where you couldn't hurt someone.  Better you there than in ATC where you would have hurt someone, had you made it through training, which is questionable.

[MacGyver]

BZ did you know that the FAA publishes its test banks for each knowledge test?  In fact just recently they gave a few tests from a new bank that wasn't published yet & they got record failure rates.  If I was not on my phone I'd offer a link.  Pretty easy when they publish the test bank in advance!  Hey Hitec757, I'd be happy to offer some names for you to evaluate.  They've got more experience in an inverted non-standard holding pattern than you've got total time.  ;@P

[Hitec757]

Were you trying to make  an actual point or just trying to score points with BZ?  Please tell me your on the administrative side of things at TVA, you don't make real decisions do you?

[Hitec757]

"we will be looking for you & your resume in the near future."

That comment really begs the question MacGyver, how small of a person are you to threaten not hiring someone, and I assume you speak for TVA when you said that, because of a forum chat?

Your threat says volumes about your lack of integrity and the company that would allow that.

[Starkist]

Holy cow. Guys relax . Sounds like im bickering here.

Hitec, im not licensed. Im an nlo that just finished the classroom phase. Its quite easy, and I've yet to study. I have a background in nuclear power. I can't even read the nrc exam, I don't even know what its saying. You're stepping on sensitive toes here. Operators have the" best of the best" mentality. Some will argue they don't, but then again" ops leads the plant"  speaks enough for me. These guys have gone through one of the most arduous academic programs on the planet, some are dumb enough to do it twice. Take a step back and realize these guys CAN GET YOU IN! They are, believe it or not, here to help you out. We had to deal with this type of mentality in the navy, and its soooo annoying hearing paint chippers say" I coulda went nuke, but...". Granted you have an academic background and no one here would think you wouldn't make it.

Id like to point out one of these gents you are arguing with spent his free time to dig up doe fundamentals on his spare time.

On the flipside, you're merely defending your background. Id be willing to bet if I went to an aviator website and said" I got this easy" (you're not saying it, but you're implying it, or at least you come off that way), id get torn apart. We get it, and id be willing to wager most of us respect that. BZ is just a salty dog with little room for any kind of talk until you prove yourself in his eyes. Now, you clearly don't care about his opinion, but id like to have a few license holders on my side in an interview, wouldn't you?




P.s. nukes eat their own. We are also some of the most prideful people you will meet, both good and bad....

[jams723]

And it is not just TVA thinking..... Laughs.

Anyone else notice how if he thinks he is challenged or slighted in the smallest way he jumps to the attack....

All he has to do is go, become an NLO and proove he is right. It was not a lack of intellegence, rather his quick to be offensive that generated my opinion.

[MacGyver]

"Threats" .. Really?  Me thinks we are going to file away a blah'lige'a'rant defiant attitude for the reasons you can not even fathom.  We help tons of folks.  BZ & others more than me.  We select the best attitudes over technical aptitude.  I merely point out what you've taken for granted.  Some of us do the hiring for our companies.  Some of us have been hired by more than one utility.  We know what you do not.  Those candidates that display your attitude are a danger to the plant.  We should know since we've seen them fired.  We get asked by the HR departments to evaluate talent all the time.  What would you like us do?  Lie on your behalf?  Not likely sir.  I don't control your bad attitude.  You do.  So, no threats here.

[Hitec757]

You know, most here are very helpful.  Like I have said so many times "I never said nuke was easy nor do I think so and I'm prepared to do the work."  That is not enough for some.  I was asked about my background and some also immediately went to the assumption that if you were not born nuke, your shit.  I've said there is no certainty that I will do well, but that I had a good foundation and have worked my ass off in the pass to accomplish goals and did.  ATC is a cuthroat business also as far as people and personalities and thin-skinned people usually don't do well, there is also a line when someone is an full time ass, berates people for the sport of it and discourages people on purpose, that isn't tolerated either.  Again in case there is any misunderstanding, and I know it wont work for a few, I neither think nuke is easy, a given based on my past or that there is any guarantee that I will make it it period.  What I will do is bust my ass to exceed what is expected of me to learn and do.  Still not enough for some, I know. 

[MacGyver]

Hmmm, seems our more recent posts got you into a more reasonable posting mood.  Which I am pleased to see.

[Starkist]

[Hitec757]

Hmmm, seems our more recent posts got you into a more reasonable posting mood.  Which I am pleased to see.

Not more reasonable, but re-iterating what I have already posted many times.  Have we had enough of the pissing contest where we can get back to business?

[MacGyver]

We have been helping you.  You have been doing the "pissing" (sic) & moaning.  Just because you don't like what we say doesn't give you permission to be on your worst behavor.  I hope you've learned how not to post & do better in the future.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

...  Have we had enough of the pissing contest where we can get back to business?

Hey, that sounds like a great idea!!  It's appreciated that you're offering to take it that way and lead by example.  

[Hitec757]

We have been helping you.  You have been doing the "pissing" (sic) & moaning.  Just because you don't like what we say doesn't give you permission to be on your worst behavor.  I hope you've learned how not to post & do better in the future.

The vast majority have helped, you not so much. You pride yourself on being an ass.     I will say your ignorance does stand out and set you apart, maybe thats what got you hired at TVA and why I won't be hired there. In a sea of great people here, a extreme few seem to be 99% of the problem, including you.  I made an effort to move on, whatever the percieved issues were.  I'll make the offer again, want to stop and help or do you want to keep the pissing contest going?  I'd like to move on.  Are you big enough to do that?

[HydroDave63]

This thread is about to go from IFR to DFR. 

[Nuclear NASCAR]

We'll start with locked.