Is AO operations?

[Hitec757]

It really is a crap shoot at times with people making it in different careers.  In mine I've seen airline pilots, officers from all different specialty's, people with masters degree's and even some with bachelor's in the field fail while others with just some college and no previous experience do quite well.  The key seems to be a good combination of skills from both the technical side and the ability to think on your feet.  Like common sense, it is either there or it isn't, you simply can't teach everything.

[jams723]

Jams723

Came from an industry that requires a thicker skin than yours, stop patting yourself on the back.  And your right, it was criticism, where none was needed.  Opinions are great and that was what I was looking for and many great people gave that.  Even your comment made me think I can still improve my resume and I'll be taking extra courses so don't say its a liability.  From what I've read on this site, seems many get in with little technical knowledge or degree's in non technical areas.  The list of training for my A&P which was 80+ semester hours after my Bachelor's seems to have a lot of relevance to a power plant above someone without it.  If being an air traffic controller at a large facility is not what you call fast paced, high stress demanding and technical with virtually no room for errors, well I guess that wouldn't set me apart, but you'd be wrong.  The FAA is about the only agency that is allowed to not hire anyone after the age of 31 because the skill set required and the ability to learn the field and perform rapidly deteriorates past that point for most.  Those are simple facts and the rules.  And none of that training or skill set would make for a good NLO?  I won't even get into my pilot ratings, the aircraft I fly and the fact I teach people to fly.  Yeah, there's no multi-tasking or technical knowledge needed to fly a twin turboprop to minimums single pilot.  Maybe it will transfer over well, maybe not.  But don't think your job is the only important one out there, I may be new on the forum but not new to a high pressure industry.  Thanks for your input, I did learn something from it.

Yawn, nope, now I am sure you will not make it..... But prove me wrong....

[Hitec757]

Yawn, nope, now I am sure you will not make it..... But prove me wrong....

Would love to see you take a swing in my field hot shot.  The bus ticket home and the kleenex will be provided for you.

[jams723]

Would love to see you take a swing in my field hot shot.  The bus ticket home and the kleenex will be provided for you.

Laughs... I have no interest in your field.... And you might note, you are the only one getting hot under the collar.

Of course you never know, I might not know anything about this nuclear field either... But you are fun to spin up.

[MacGyver]

I can smell a LOCK in this threads future.

[Higgs]

Yeah, because a bunch of people are talking out their a$$es. He is easily hire able. End of story.

[jams723]

I can smell a LOCK in this threads future.

Laughs, you are probably correct.

[jams723]

Yeah, because a bunch of people are talking out their a$$es. He is easily hire able. End of story.

No, not a bunch of people. Just me, but that is my opinion.

[Higgs]

I am really just surprised at how fast this thread went to crap. But then again, I am not sure why I am surprised anymore.

[Hitec757]

Laughs... I have no interest in your field.... And you might note, you are the only one getting hot under the collar.

Of course you never know, I might not know anything about this nuclear field either... But you are fun to spin up.

Spun up? Your killing me.  This is toy time, you'll have to do better than that.  I can nap through this quick witted exchange.  No hard feelings here.  

[HydroDave63]

I am really just surprised at how fast this thread went to crap. But then again, I am not sure why I am surprised anymore.

You know it is a sign of doom...when Starkist, MacGyver and TheHiggs are the voice of reason in a thread! 

[Rennhack]

Children, please behave.

[MacGyver]

The natural question at this point is: What KSAs do you bring to the table?

Fair question.   Bachelor's degree in a non technical field.  20+ years as an air traffic controller for the FAA, airframe&powerplant mechanic (aircraft), 9 pilot certificates, aircraft dispatcher, certified electronics technician, FCC GROL with radar endorsement(the old FCC 1st class license).  Zero nuke experience.

I'll tell you the same thing I told another hopeful trying to transition to Nuclear Power.  Get your fundamentals in order.  Two main sources are GP (copyrighted) and DOE Handbooks (free-ware).  Most Nuclear Plants use GP (General Physics).  Some use the DOE Handbooks.

Though you will be offered a chance to prove yourself if hired.  The pace of the training will be much faster than you have ever witnessed.  Thusly it would behove you to get a head start on the one area you should have down cold if you wish to be successful.

DOE Handbooks

This will get you started. 
DOE-HDBK-1010-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Classical Physics (142 pages)
PDF (1120 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 1 of 4 (166 pages)
PDF (4255 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 2 of 4 (118 pages)
PDF (3317 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/3-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 3 of 4 (126 pages)
PDF (2234 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1011/4-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Electrical Science, Volume 4 of 4 (142 pages)
PDF (4800 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1012/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, and Fluid Flow, Volume 1 of 3 (138 pages)
PDF (2994 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1012/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, and Fluid Flow, Volume 2 of 3 (80 pages)
PDF (1193 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1012/3-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, and Fluid Flow, Volume 3 of 3 (82 pages)
PDF (1214 KB)
DOE-HDBK-1013/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Instrumentation and Control, Volume 1 of 2 (132 pages)
PDF (2639 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1013/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Instrumentation and Control, Volume 2 of 2 (168 pages)
PDF (3504 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1014/1-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mathematics Volume 1 of 2 (206 pages)
PDF (1436 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1014/2-92 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mathematics Volume 2 of 2 (112 pages)
PDF (932 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1015/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Chemistry, Volume 1 of 2 (140 pages)
PDF (3950 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1015/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Chemistry, Volume 2 of 2 (138 pages)
PDF (2898 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1016/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Engineering Symbology, Prints, and Drawings, Volume 1 of 2 (120 pages)
PDF (8231 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1016/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Engineering Symbology, Prints, and Drawings, Volume 2 of 2 (96 pages)
PDF (4453 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1017/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Material Science, Volume 1 of 2 (102 pages)
PDF (2217 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1017/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Material Science, Volume 2 of 2 (112 pages)
PDF (1441 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1018/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mechanical Science, Volume 1 of 2 (139 pages)
PDF (5136 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1018/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Mechanical Science, Volume 2 of 2 (130 pages)
PDF (5465 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1019/1-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Nuclear Physics and Reactor Theory, Volume 1 of 2 (142 pages)
PDF (3464 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1019/2-93 DOE Fundamentals Handbook, Nuclear Physics and Reactor Theory, Volume 2 of 2 (128 pages)
PDF (1988 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-HDBK-1028-2009 Human Performance Improvement Handbook Volume 1 of 2 (175 pages)
PDF (1066 KB)
DOE-HDBK-1028-2009 Human Performance Improvement Handbook Volume 2 of 2 (137 pages)
PDF (471 KB)
DOE-STD-1029-92
(CH-1) Writer's Guide for Technical Procedures (123 pages)
PDF (546 KB)
DOE-STD-1030-96 Guide to Good Practices for Lockouts and Tagouts (49 pages)
PDF (171 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1031-92
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Communications (31 pages)
PDF (106 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1032-92
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations Organization and Administration (33 pages)
PDF (97.9 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1033-92
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations and Administration Updates Through Required Reading (36 pages)
PDF (158 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1034-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Timely Orders to Operators (29 pages)
PDF (73.8 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1035-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Logkeeping (33 pages)
PDF (111 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1036-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Independent Verification (41 pages)
PDF (122 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1037-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations Aspects of Unique Processes (29 pages)
PDF (87 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1038-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Operations Turnover (38 pages)
PDF (102 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum
DOE-STD-1039-93
(CH-1) Guide to Good Practices for Control of Equipment and System Status (29 pages)
PDF (91 KB)    Reaffirmation Memorandum



P.S.
And as a reference to the speed you will work at, you should be able to finish these in approximately 6 weeks.

[Hitec757]

"The pace of the training will be much faster than you have ever witnessed."

My A&P program was 87 semester hours in 16 months, my dispatcher training was 10 hours classroom a day and we all studied an hour or 2 before class and 2-3 hours after class every day for a month. And flight training for anything turboprop or above is known as "taking a drink of water from a fire hose" where all day every day is study from the time you wake til you can't stay awake anymore and you still do the sim for a couple hours a day.  ATC training was 4 months for the initial screen after passing tons of written tests, physical, psychological and the fun begins. 40% failed the classroom, another 20% failed in sims.  Get out into the field and you'll have another 20-30% fail in the process of several years on-the-job training.

Thanks for the DOE info I've been looking for them one by one and thanks to you I now have them all in one spot.  Being offered a chance is all anyone can hope for, I'm sure training is far from easy, I never thought it was.  I don't expect just because I was good in one field to mean that I will be good in another, it is up to me to prove it.  However, thinking that this industry is the only industry that has fast paced training that makes you sit back and say wow, is simply wrong.

I could applying everywhere now, but I'm not as I still need to prepare.  I could be trying to take the POSS/MASS and whatever other screening test I may be hit with, but I'll be hitting the books for a couple months to prepare to do well, not just hope I pass, and I'll do the same for actual training.  Sounds like maybe you have run into too many lazy ass's in the past who expect someone else to carry them or do the work for them.  I like to work, not afraid to do the work needed to over prepare because if I do in fact fail, the only one responsible for that would be me.  I don't like failure, never failed in anything I set my mind to, got a great track record and if that isn't a great foundation for potential success in another field, you'll simple never be convinced.

[Starkist]

NLO isn't fast at all. The pace is reasonably quick, but not even one tenth of navy nuke school. But I wouldn't compare any academic program to license class.

Poss testing has nothing to do with nuclear fundamentals at all. The hiring process is pretty slow as well, so I would advise you start applying now. If you wait a few months and bumble up your poss, then what? You still have to wait. If you pass it now, your fleet will keep your scores for later if you didn't get hired right away. For frame of reference, I applied in september, and didn't interview until late december.  Go to the testing portion of thi s site to see practice exams for the poss. None of the material is in any way difficult, its just stupid fast.

[MacGyver]

Hitec757 "is simply wrong" (re: pace)

Sir, you don't know the first thing about a nuclear power training evolution.  So, it would be persumptious for you to make this commit.  I do know something about yours though.  And, the pace doesn't compare to what you are used too.  Add the fact this information will be almost 100% new to you.  Now I am not saying it is beyond your skill set (re: material presented) but your fire hose example is more like a garden hose to commercial nuclear power (re: license class).  I would know because I work with some navy nukes that have more hours certificates & ratings than you do.  Stop comparing your known to an unknown (for you anyway).  You're just stirring the pot by doing so.  I am told only a handful of aviation types could do it and that came from ex-airline & corporate aviator types.  They all sing the same tune if you were wondering.  Since I deal with facts;  How many pilots certificates are there in the USofA compared to Licensed Operators in Nuclear?

[Hitec757]

I'm stirring the pot?  Really?  I never said nuke was easy nor do I think so and I'm prepared to do the work.  It was YOU who made the statement that I had never seen a learning pace like what I would have for AO?NLO.  You are wrong.  You obviously don't have my background and don't know.  But again, it is you that makes the point that almost no one can be a NLO, its just too tough.

"Since I deal with facts;  How many pilots certificates are there in the USofA compared to Licensed Operators in Nuclear?"

How many "Advanced underwater basketweavers" are there in the US?  Using your logic, they are better trained than you are because there are fewer of them.  Is this the type of common sense required in the job you do?  I hope not.

Did you graduate high school?  Seriously?  What is the need of ATP type-rated pilots in the US compared to the need for Licensed Ops?  You have shown how little you know about aviation and shown how bizzare your logic is in trying to compare total # of pilots, which includes the vast majority of pilots who fly for fun at the private level, to a profession and intense training.

You simply think that no one outside the industry could ever make it in NLO.  You were all hand picked by God.  And you and only you are making an issue out of this. 

If you have a issue with others you have worked with from different fields, take it up with them.  If you want to help, thanks, but all your doing now is putting yourself on a pedestal from which to fall.

[Fermi2]

My brother and cousin were ATC. Both said it wasn't much harder than maybe doing a year of High School in about 6 months. Nowhere near Nuclear.

On the other hand it doesn't really matter. The guy has passed a technical training program. He has the ability to learn.

Won't make it through the training though as the other NLOs will chew him up.

[Hitec757]

"Won't make it through the training though as the other NLOs will chew him up."

Maybe that wont happen if I work somewhere that has professionals who take some pride in their job.

[MacGyver]

*Sigh* ... I know ... I know ... Your a legend in your (own) mind.  If you pass the POSS/MASS & you get hired you can come back & tell us all about NLO (non-licensed operator) training.  (Which is not the same thing as licensed operator training.)  But, considering that you've now insulted bz (a shift manager @ TVA) & several licensed operators; we will be looking for you & your resume in the near future.  Good luck with that one ACE.

[Fermi2]

Best professionals in the country. They simply have a low tolerance for whining. I doubt you'd make it through an interview. It's not the FAA, Nuclear isn't required to take the highest score from each region, we endeavor to get the best ones.
1984. Took the ATC Test. Was chosen. Decided Navy nuke was a better as as I preferred a challenge.

[Hitec757]

Not concerned about someones's hyper-sensitive ego, nor concerned about TVA.  I figured you were one of his butt-buddies and you just confirmed it.  Plenty of other places.  Now knowing what kind of people they hire and what they think constitues a mgr, I'm happy to remove it from my list.  Oh, I forgot, if you don't work for TVA, you're a nobody.  You really are an asset to this field.

[Hitec757]

Best professionals in the country. They simply have a low tolerance for whining. I doubt you'd make it through an interview. It's not the FAA, Nuclear isn't required to take the highest score from each region, we endeavor to get the best ones.
1984. Took the ATC Test. Was chosen. Decided Navy nuke was a better as as I preferred a challenge.

Most likely your Ops Mgr job was a great idea by TVA to get you out of the Ops area where you couldn't hurt someone.  Better you there than in ATC where you would have hurt someone, had you made it through training, which is questionable.

[MacGyver]

BZ did you know that the FAA publishes its test banks for each knowledge test?  In fact just recently they gave a few tests from a new bank that wasn't published yet & they got record failure rates.  If I was not on my phone I'd offer a link.  Pretty easy when they publish the test bank in advance!  Hey Hitec757, I'd be happy to offer some names for you to evaluate.  They've got more experience in an inverted non-standard holding pattern than you've got total time.  ;@P

[Hitec757]

Were you trying to make  an actual point or just trying to score points with BZ?  Please tell me your on the administrative side of things at TVA, you don't make real decisions do you?