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1986-2006 Nuke

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Job Security
« on: Oct 30, 2011, 10:33 »
I would suggest that anyone looking into commercial nuke power look long and hard at the utility prior to committing and moving to that plant. Some of my friends there were "un-hired" during the training.  Condensed version.... If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help). Sorry if you bought a house, started your kids in school, used up your Navy move, etc, You WILL be looking for another source of income to live on!
Just a thought prior to agreeing to Southern Company. There are plenty of other utilities to look at first (Progress, FPL, Entergy, Excelon ...) Do your homework first.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2011, 11:34 by ArkansasHogs »

1986-2006 Nuke

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SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #1 on: Oct 30, 2011, 10:42 »
I would suggest that anyone looking into commercial nuke power look long and hard at the utility prior to committing and moving to that plant. Some of my friends in GA are no longer employed. So here's the condensed version.... If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help). Sorry if you bought a house, started your kids in school, used up your Navy move, etc, You WILL be looking for another source of income to live on!
Just a thought prior to agreeing to Southern Company. There are plenty of other utilities to look at first (Progress, FPL, Entergy, Excelon ...) Do your homework first.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2011, 11:33 by ArkansasHogs »

Offline Higgs

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #2 on: Oct 30, 2011, 10:44 »
Didn't maintain an 80, huh?
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline Higgs

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Re: SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #3 on: Oct 30, 2011, 10:46 »
Double post.

Do you realize that industry wide, the minimum standard is 80?
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline jams723

Re: SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #4 on: Oct 30, 2011, 11:12 »
And all Utulities have probationary periods where you can be let go without any Union argument.

1986-2006 Nuke

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #5 on: Oct 30, 2011, 11:14 »
Actually, "TheHiggs", I am fortunately still employed. However, a few of my friends in GA are not. Not even at an Aux op position or any other spot within that company. :(
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2011, 11:38 by ArkansasHogs »

Offline Higgs

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #6 on: Oct 30, 2011, 11:27 »
So then I guess they should've maintained standards, huh? I'm failing to see how maintaining and enforcing a standard is a problem.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2011, 11:28 by TheHiggs »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline jams723

Re: Job Security
« Reply #7 on: Oct 30, 2011, 11:51 »
And it is in the companies best interest to release someone who is not meeting the minimum standard before the probationary period is up. 

Offline storm13

Re: Job Security
« Reply #8 on: Oct 30, 2011, 12:17 »
The question I'd have is 'Does the company try to help those who are below 80%, or do they just cut them loose with no investigating what the problems are?'.

If it's a one-time "< 80% score, you're out", that can be problematical.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #9 on: Oct 30, 2011, 12:24 »
I agree, but I bet a company isn't going to waste money on someone just to cut them loose with no assistance. But I could be wrong. We'll only get one side of the story here.
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline jams723

Re: Job Security
« Reply #10 on: Oct 30, 2011, 12:31 »
Good point Higgs, we had review boards and remediation plans..... You do not invest in a person to throw them away quickly.... They obviously had potential from passing the poss and interview.

Offline MMM

Re: SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #11 on: Oct 30, 2011, 01:44 »
So, if I get hired to be an SRO, but can't pass the the licensing class (meaning I can't do my job), I'll get fired? Sounds like real life to me.

MacGyver

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Re: SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #12 on: Oct 30, 2011, 02:04 »
I would suggest that anyone looking into commercial nuke power look long and hard at the utility prior to committing and moving to that plant. Some of my friends in GA are no longer employed. So here's the condensed version.... If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help). Sorry if you bought a house, started your kids in school, used up your Navy move, etc, You WILL be looking for another source of income to live on!
Just a thought prior to agreeing to Southern Company. There are plenty of other utilities to look at first (Progress, FPL, Entergy, Excelon ...) Do your homework first.


MacGyver

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #13 on: Oct 30, 2011, 02:18 »
Actually, "TheHiggs", I am fortunately still employed. However, a few of my friends in GA are not. Not even at an Aux op position or any other spot within that company. :(

Maybe "THEY" should have started as NLO's instead of the often tried and very rarely accomplished Direct (INSTANT) SRO. 

Most if not all training programs are written for you to start as a "NON-LICENSED" operator and then transition to (the LICENSED operator positions) RO then SRO.

They offered you the money and the task to which you errr THEY can't seem to perform.  GAME OVER since you didn't hadn't filled the previous position (i.e. NLO) to fall back on.

If you had been an NLO first and failed to succeed at a LICENSE then you would have been returned to the position of NLO.



Morale of the story: Be careful what you wish for.  You might have bitten off more than you can chew!
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2011, 02:19 by MacGyver »

Offline HydroDave63

Re: SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #14 on: Oct 30, 2011, 02:25 »
I would suggest that anyone looking into commercial nuke power look long and hard at the utility prior to committing and moving to that plant. Some of my friends in GA are no longer employed. So here's the condensed version.... If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help). Sorry if you bought a house, started your kids in school, used up your Navy move, etc, You WILL be looking for another source of income to live on!
Just a thought prior to agreeing to Southern Company. There are plenty of other utilities to look at first (Progress, FPL, Entergy, Excelon ...) Do your homework first.




* spoken in the voice of Roy D. Mercer *

" Ah say boah, idn't that there airfoil what y'all use to maintain a rolling-80 average throughout the NLO program? Ah think y'all must have been too dammm busy scoopin up all those fries in the serve-yerself box. Or maybe you can catch a golfcart ride with Bob..."

OK, in all seriousness....
1. Admiral Mullen failed your friends, and

2. Southern still hires the Nuclear Technician position, and lets people bid up to NLO or  even RO/SRO classes. That way, you learn the plant locations over time and have a position to fall back on. Otherwise, going straight from the street to RO class with no safety net results in the situation described above.
« Last Edit: Oct 30, 2011, 05:23 by HydroDave63 »

Offline bigblackford

Re: Job Security
« Reply #15 on: Oct 30, 2011, 05:21 »
I would suggest that anyone looking into commercial nuke power look long and hard at the utility prior to committing and moving to that plant. Some of my friends there were "un-hired" during the training.  Condensed version.... If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help). Sorry if you bought a house, started your kids in school, used up your Navy move, etc, You WILL be looking for another source of income to live on!
Just a thought prior to agreeing to Southern Company. There are plenty of other utilities to look at first (Progress, FPL, Entergy, Excelon ...) Do your homework first.


Just curious did they do anything outside of their agreement at the time of employment? As it sounds the guys were told that they were to maintain a 80 or they would be dismissed, and the company done as it said. Now if this was the other way around and say the company said maintain a 95 and get a bonus then when you maintained your 95 would you expect the company to do as they said.  So in the end unless Southern Company broke their agreement, you are just mad that your buddy lost his job. I feel sorry for him and hope it works out, but Southern Company is not to blame here. As for buying a home and such that is no ones fault but his own, he knew the terms of employment.

Fermi2

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Re: SRO, RO job security during training!
« Reply #16 on: Oct 30, 2011, 06:22 »
I would suggest that anyone looking into commercial nuke power look long and hard at the utility prior to committing and moving to that plant. Some of my friends in GA are no longer employed. So here's the condensed version.... If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help). Sorry if you bought a house, started your kids in school, used up your Navy move, etc, You WILL be looking for another source of income to live on!
Just a thought prior to agreeing to Southern Company. There are plenty of other utilities to look at first (Progress, FPL, Entergy, Excelon ...) Do your homework first.


You know what to do then? PASS YOUR G** ***N TESTS!
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011, 10:20 by Marlin »

ski2313

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #17 on: Oct 31, 2011, 09:03 »
If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO

how is this different than any other employee in any other industry who is hired to do something and doesn't perform?

Offline jimbo0697

Re: Job Security
« Reply #18 on: Oct 31, 2011, 08:46 »
This is what I can tell you about the firing at Southern Company and this is first hand as I am one of the individuals cut.  Our class started a pre class class.  This was a new program that was very spur of the moment.  Not pre GFES.  We all received a email from our supervisor that this is a "free look".  The first 6 weeks out of 9  The instructors both house and contracted pushed the fact that it was a "free look" to "prepare us for what to expect in license class".  Around the 6th week week we were hinted that it may become a screening process and by the 7th it was official.  As for the average it is cumulative as well as all the test.  We had 3 test left including the comp test to bring our average to a 85 from a 80.  With 7 test factored in it was impossible.  There was no disciplinary problems with me and the other guy.  I took them at their word when they said "free look".  I understand the time commitment required during license class and was prepared to give it.  So when they said free look instead of studying test banks like most I focused more on learning drawings and lesson plans.  When we were let go their was nothing that could be done.  No argument that could be given.   They didn't want to hear it.  I was not intimidated by the information presented.  Nor was did I think it was something I couldn't handle.  I believe that I have the ability and would have been licensed.  Be carefull when deciding to go to Southern Company. Managment care little. Their are many good people there.  It's great area with no job security. Ga is a right to work state. The lesson learned here is something I will never forget.  There are no free looks and everything is a evaluation. 

Offline Bleyse

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #19 on: Oct 31, 2011, 08:50 »
If you do not maintain an 80% rolling average during your training... YOU WILL BE LET GO (and the precious Union won't help).

Actually, "TheHiggs", I am fortunately still employed. However, a few of my friends in GA are not. Not even at an Aux op position or any other spot within that company. :(

Was this for an instant RO position?  If not, why would the 'precious union' have anything to do with it?

Offline Contract SRO

Re: Job Security
« Reply #20 on: Nov 01, 2011, 09:42 »
I am not trying to insult anyone but, These classes were not tough classes.  They were not to the level of a GFES program or license class.  If your in a class and you do not give it all your capable of, even if it is called a "free look", your making a big mistake.  A free look may often be used to see if a person is demonstrating the aptitude and dedication to make it through when it counts.  You are always being evaluated no matter what they call it.

I do have feelings for your situation and Southern is not always the most forgiving.  I also know that many of the exams questions were......A. Possum,  B.  Hog,  C.  Deer,  D.  RHR Pump     type questions (maybe a slight exaggeration but you get my meaning).

I am sorry that you have had to face this consequence and I hope you will be able to find gainful employment.  Don't give up but hopefully something positive can come out of it and also others that have read about your result will gain valuable insight also.

Offline a|F

Re: Job Security
« Reply #21 on: Nov 01, 2011, 10:44 »
By marginally passing a low cog course, you gave them the impression that you either:

A)  Don't care about learning their material.
B)  Can't make it through ILT.

50/50/90. 

As others have said, you're always being evaluated.  Our site runs a 3 week crash course on systems for the engineers.  If there are any pre-ILT candidates on site, they are required to attend.  We had a guy fail one of those laughable tests.  He was later dropped from ILT after the systems final, where he failed but still had an 81% overall.  His issues were a combination of A&B from above.

Yours is a tough lesson to learn, but they clearly expect better of their ILT candidates.

Offline Higgs

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #22 on: Nov 01, 2011, 12:05 »
Um, I'm just guessing, but maybe "free look" meant a "free look at you for the company." At least, that is how it appears to have turned out.

Anyway, as s#$%@y as the situation is, I can't find much fault with the company.
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2011, 12:58 by Marlin »
"How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.” - Ted Nugent

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Job Security
« Reply #23 on: Nov 01, 2011, 12:13 »
I'll bet if they haven't deviated too much from the height vs weight standards, they could probably catch the next CVN headed somewhere....
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2011, 03:20 by HydroDave63 »

Offline Gamma Glue

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #24 on: Nov 01, 2011, 02:59 »
"Free Look"
If you do well, then it "looks" like you'll stay. If you do bad, then you're "free" to go work somewhere else.

Offline jimbo0697

Re: Job Security
« Reply #25 on: Nov 01, 2011, 04:38 »
All of you guys are correct.  I shouldn't have been dragging the bottom.  I did learn a lesson all be it a difficult one.  It never pays to be average or just meeting expectations.  I am not bitter at the company.  I still believe it is a good overall place to be.  Just be carefull and do not believe what they tell you.  Never position yourself near the bottom.  Do not think that your job is secure.  As much as they tell you they care about you, your family,  your well being remember you are only a dollar sign.  And if your dollar sign has a - before it you are dragging down the bottom line.  That is the Southern Company philosophy and probably a few others.  I will never make the same mistake again if I get another opportunity.  In my career in the military I was always near the top.  I took on too many things outside of work to be able to give the pre class class the attention it deserved.  Thinking it was what I was told it shouldn't have been too much.  I now understand everything is a evaluation and that is not something I will ever forget.
« Last Edit: Nov 02, 2011, 08:02 by jimbo0697 »

Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #26 on: Nov 02, 2011, 07:08 »
wait wait wait... this guy is upset.... because "his friends" got fired (I have a "friend" that got "laid off" for "medical reasons" arkansas.... lol)  for... not meeting the requirements of a course.... that you signed a piece of paper saying you maintain standards for... which.... good lord...  how pedantic...


edit: my "friend" was let go from an entergy company with a union ... lol
« Last Edit: Nov 02, 2011, 07:09 by Starkist »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #27 on: Nov 03, 2011, 04:40 »
(I have a "friend" that got "laid off" for "medical reasons" arkansas.... lol)
was it his "medicine" that got him laid off?  was he out in californicate for a while?  jist axing..... ;)
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Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #28 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:25 »
was it his "medicine" that got him laid off?  was he out in californicate for a while?  jist axing..... ;)

haha no.... his "medicine" turned out to be a poor diagnosis from a ER doctor, but the underlying cause led him to get laid off 6 months later :p


Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #29 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:43 »
If what Jimbo says is true about being told the class was a "free look", very devious on management's part.  And not right.  Sure life's not fair, but being in that class was supposedly about learning, not so much about a grade it seems from the desccription.  I focused on some stuff in a couple of my college classes that was more interesting to me even though I knew it probably would affect my grade negatively because I was there to learn first and get good grades 2nd (a close 2nd).  And I'd do it the same way if I had it to do over again. Yeah I was paying to learn, not the other way around, but these people were given a line of BS. Seems like learning should come first in this case, grades 2nd.  If people were screwing off in class, then ok, maybe some firings should have happened.  Maybe mgment needed to get rid of some bodies and they figured it out right around week 5, or maybe they planned it all along.  That exact thing happened where I work, but the two people fired deserved it, so it all worked out.  And they got them with the same line at the start of the training (will not affect your job).  But changed minds due to budget concerns it seemed.  Step into my office because.....

Maybe the people that were fired were not well liked or not thought of as good future employees and this was just an excuse to get rid of them.  Could be a good apple got thrown out with the bad apples because he/she met the same BS criteria to be fired to avoid a lawsuit.  Exacerbated by realizing they already had enough apples anyway??....

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #30 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:46 »
If what Jimbo says is true about being told the class was a "free look", very devious on management's part.  And not right.  Sure life's not fair, but being in that class was supposedly about learning, not so much about a grade it seems from the desccription.  I focused on some stuff in a couple of my college classes that was more interesting to me even though I knew it probably would affect my grade negatively because I was there to learn first and get good grades 2nd (a close 2nd).  And I'd do it the same way if I had it to do over again. Yeah I was paying to learn, not the other way around, but these people were given a line of BS. Seems like learning should come first in this case, grades 2nd.  If people were screwing off in class, then ok, maybe some firings should have happened.  Maybe mgment needed to get rid of some bodies and they figured it out right around week 5, or maybe they planned it all along.  That exact thing happened where I work, but the two people fired deserved it, so it all worked out.  And they got them with the same line at the start of the training (will not affect your job).  But changed minds due to budget concerns it seemed.  Step into my office because.....

Maybe the people that were fired were not well liked or not thought of as good future employees and this was just an excuse to get rid of them.  Could be a good apple got thrown out with the bad apples because he/she met the same BS criteria to be fired to avoid a lawsuit.  Exacerbated by realizing they already had enough apples anyway??....


Incorrect. Obviously you have never been a part of an NRC license program have you?

Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #31 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:54 »

Maybe the people that were fired were not well liked or not thought of as good future employees and this was just an excuse to get rid of them.  Could be a good apple got thrown out with the bad apples because he/she met the same BS criteria to be fired to avoid a lawsuit.  Exacerbated by realizing they already had enough apples anyway??....

The people fired in my class were VERY well liked, worked very hard during the outage, and spent 3-6 hours a night AFTER class let up, not being paid over time, so they could study. 

Grades on a multiple choice test are indicative of what you have learned, and your ability to convey said knowledge. If you suck on those tests, it means you aren't learning. And no matter how liked and how hard of a worker you are, the minimum grades are there for a reason, no?

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Job Security
« Reply #32 on: Nov 04, 2011, 07:52 »
haha no.... his "medicine" turned out to be a poor diagnosis from a ER doctor, but the underlying cause led him to get laid off 6 months later :p

On the other side, seemingly “simple” concepts as pronouns may throw a person with Asperger’s. A child learning to talk may refer to everyone using the same pronoun, or refer to themselves in third person.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergers-diary/200804/what-does-it-mean-have-asperger-syndrome

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #33 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:36 »
didn't sound like real lic. class to me.  have you actually been reading the posts?

Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #34 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:59 »

On the other side, seemingly “simple” concepts as pronouns may throw a person with Asperger’s. A child learning to talk may refer to everyone using the same pronoun, or refer to themselves in third person.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergers-diary/200804/what-does-it-mean-have-asperger-syndrome


matthew.b

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #35 on: Nov 04, 2011, 10:28 »
I'm quite certain that any position at a nuclear plant that requires testing should weed out someone with Asperger's.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #36 on: Nov 04, 2011, 10:45 »
didn't sound like real lic. class to me.  have you actually been reading the posts?

You did not answer my question..

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #37 on: Nov 04, 2011, 11:54 »
since it has nothing to do with whether these people were lied to or not, I will continue not to answer it.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #38 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:27 »
since it has nothing to do with whether these people were lied to or not, I will continue not to answer it.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Rule number 1 of actually HAVING or OBTAINING a License. You are ALWAYS on the bubble, everything you do, everything you say, everything you think regardless of when or where you think it is evaluated by someone.

If a person cannot pass a pre course they most likely do not belong in the program, at least at that time. It's up to the utility to decide to cut their losses or not.

We do not reward mediocrity.

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #39 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:28 »
so if in fact these people were lied too, you are saying that is ok?

MacGyver

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #40 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:33 »
It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Rule number 1 of actually HAVING or OBTAINING a License. You are ALWAYS on the bubble, everything you do, everything you say, everything you think regardless of when or where you think it is evaluated by someone.

If a person cannot pass a pre course they most likely do not belong in the program, at least at that time. It's up to the utility to decide to cut their losses or not.

We do not reward mediocrity.

Absolutely true.  And, absolutely true.  Not so true.  But, it's in the right area code.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #41 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:58 »
so if in fact these people were lied too, you are saying that is ok?

No one was lied to. I believe we are hearing some selective after the fact stories.

MacGyver LOL your point well taken!

Offline Gamma Glue

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #42 on: Nov 04, 2011, 01:07 »
so if in fact these people were lied too, you are saying that is ok?

They weren't lied to. It was all a test. They were told there tests didn't matter, but they were being tested on how hard they tried on their tests when they didn't think the tests mattered. Part of the test was understanding that it was a test. When those being tested didn't do well on the tests, they failed. The testers that didn't test the limits did well on the tests and got to continue to take the real tests.
I see it all the time...

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #43 on: Nov 04, 2011, 02:17 »
Not certain I would go to that extent, I have never been one to associate a test score with effort as the guy in my nuke school class who got the lowest scores put in the most effort... Saw the same thing in a recent license class and both guys ended up being fantastic operators.

The overall assessment is correct, you best show you are doing your best even when you believe it does not count. That is always how a licensed operator is evaluated and it's the only way it can be.

The same rule applies when talking with INPO, QA, or the NRC. NOTHING is off the record so always put your best foot forward as everytime you deal with one of those groups (and in fact any other entity) you are representing your fellow workers, your boss, your plant, and your utility.

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #44 on: Nov 04, 2011, 04:05 »
I'm quite certain that any position at a nuclear plant that requires testing should weed out someone with Asperger's.

I'd have to disagree with this as some with Aspergers do well at test taking, not all but some.  I don't know that we'd need to "weed out" anyone with Aspergers.  We'd probably be surprised (maybe not) at the actual numbers in the plants, though I think they're higher in the engineering department due to characteristics of the syndrome.
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #45 on: Nov 04, 2011, 05:00 »
I'm not so sure they weren't lied to.  I wouldn't want to be part of an organization that tries to trick it's emplolyees as regular practice.  Many people always assume the worst about people on these forums when they post something bad that happened to them and automatically disrespect them.  I don't like it.  Lots of times they are whiners but people do get railroaded.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #46 on: Nov 04, 2011, 06:30 »
I'm not so sure they weren't lied to.  I wouldn't want to be part of an organization that tries to trick it's emplolyees as regular practice.  Many people always assume the worst about people on these forums when they post something bad that happened to them and automatically disrespect them.  I don't like it.  Lots of times they are whiners but people do get railroaded.

Incorrect. These guys simply did not have what it took to get licenses so the utility cut its losses.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #47 on: Nov 04, 2011, 06:32 »
I'm quite certain that any position at a nuclear plant that requires testing should weed out someone with Asperger's.

How sad you would say this.

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #48 on: Nov 05, 2011, 06:37 »
One of the guys who was given his 90 day letter in my class came to us as a previously licensed SRO from Southern Company.  He was averaging in the low 80s on exams and basically did not embrace our company's expectations on how to operate in the simulator.  The Friday before our Audit Exam, an instructor came in, asked him to step outside the classroom for a minute and that was that.  IMHO he was dropped because he had earned the reputation of minimal effort and not playing well with others.  He's a great guy and I hated to see his family go through this, but I understand why it happened.

How much a company invests in ILT students probably plays a big role when companies drop students.  14 students in my class just got their license.  We started with 16, lost a few and gained a few from a previous class.  It took 2 1/2 years at a ballpark $100K per year per student.  That's a pretty hefty investment.  We were briefed about 3/4 of the way through our training that there was a lot of pressure from HR to cut people who weren't making it because we were hired based on an assumed 70% pass rate.  It was management's shot across the bow after some guys dropped some tests and assumed they were rolling back to the class behind us.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline CT-Mike

Re: Job Security
« Reply #49 on: Nov 05, 2011, 08:56 »
One thing I have learned after going through the licensing process not to trust a trainer when they say something (exam, SIM session, whatever) doesn't count. As a plant operator, especially a licensed operator, you are constantly being scrutinized and evaluated. It has to be that way to ensure that the units are operated safely.

Also, when you are in the training program, your future depends on your success. The bottom line is that the company has invested a lot of time and money on you to get that license, and if they see that you aren't putting forth your best effort, you are wasting their time and you will get cut.  Sadly, sometimes best effort isn't enough and people get cut.

In my class we started with 18:

- 3 RO candidates: all licensed
- 3 Upgrades: all licensed
- 1 STA becoming SRO: licensed
- 1 retired ETC direct SRO (me): licensed
- 1 retired O5 direct SRO: licensed
- 1 Electric Boat STE direct SRO: licensed
- 1 previous SM/trainer getting his license back: licensed
- 7 Engineer direct SRO candidates: 1 licensed, 1 became an STA, and the others got the axe ( not fired, just dropped from the program and went back to engineering).

So we went 12/12 on the audit and NRC exam, but the throughput was rather low.  It is tough program and there is no room for those who would try to skate along.

YMMV.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #50 on: Nov 05, 2011, 10:39 »
Great posts Mike and Derek. Everyone wanting to start license class should take heed.

Derek I do not believe that item about HR is true at all.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #51 on: Nov 05, 2011, 11:17 »
I think people that weren't actually involved don't know what really happened.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #52 on: Nov 05, 2011, 12:11 »
I think people that weren't actually involved don't know what really happened.

Yet earlier you blatantly accused their utility of lying..

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #53 on: Nov 05, 2011, 12:15 »
I did?  Quote me the post and we will see if you have really been reading my posts.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #54 on: Nov 05, 2011, 12:19 »
 I would expect such a superior lic. operator to pay more attention to detail.

matthew.b

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #55 on: Nov 05, 2011, 01:33 »
I'd have to disagree with this as some with Aspergers do well at test taking, not all but some.  I don't know that we'd need to "weed out" anyone with Aspergers.  We'd probably be surprised (maybe not) at the actual numbers in the plants, though I think they're higher in the engineering department due to characteristics of the syndrome.

I'm an engineer and yep, lots of engineers are on the spectrum.  But when you're talking about operation folks, I don't think they'd fit in.  There's just too much importance on personal interaction and teamwork.

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #56 on: Nov 05, 2011, 05:13 »
Great posts Mike and Derek. Everyone wanting to start license class should take heed.

Derek I do not believe that item about HR is true at all.
True or not, I know about 7 or 8 other guys who heard the same thing (our class was split between plant and CR at the time).
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #57 on: Nov 05, 2011, 07:28 »
It isn't true...

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #58 on: Nov 05, 2011, 10:38 »
Unbelievable.  So now I guess Derek and the 7 or 8 guys are liars now.  According to our friend from TVA.  Once again, he knows more about an occurance than the people that were actually there.  nice.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #59 on: Nov 05, 2011, 10:44 »
&feature=related


hello in there mike......tell me, what color is the sky in your world?

LaFeet

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #60 on: Nov 07, 2011, 10:24 »
A little rough on BZ aren't you JTC???   :P

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #61 on: Nov 07, 2011, 11:19 »
I'd like this board to be of use to people, and it is.  Questioning whether something actually happened or not is one thing, but saying it didn't happen unequivocally when it may or may not have is annoying and misinformative.  Let's hear from the people who were there.  I like knowing how different plants treat employees so I can gage whether I want to go there or not if given the opp.

Offline Bleyse

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #62 on: Nov 07, 2011, 05:37 »
BZ may not have been there, but he is not speaking in a vacuum, in this case.  DDMurray and he both work for the same company, but at different plants.  So while BZ wasn't in the room, he deals with the same HR department.

Personally (which means this is my opinion, and therefore I can't prove it) I believe there is likely some truth to what DDMurray heard (i.e: rumor) but officially, it does not happen (BZ's statement).

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #63 on: Nov 07, 2011, 06:07 »
BZ is a good source of info.  Just have to take him with a grain of salt.  Reading between the lines here....I agree with Bleyse.  Saw the same type of thing happen here at SRS.

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #64 on: Nov 07, 2011, 06:11 »
Here's the scenario:  We were in EOPs or IPO.  One of our guys had failed the most recent exam and had been struggling some in the simulator.  He was one of four guys that had not attended mini-systems or had on-shift time with the AUOs like the rest of us (a different story).  In start-up cert training one of the four failed an exam and was rolled back two classes so he could repeat systems and do his AUO time.  Another guy was struggling academically and had some issues at home.  They heard from OPs Mgmt that they were being rolled back to the class that was just starting systems.  They both moved into the new classroom.  A week or two goes by and lo and behold at the official TRB, plant management put the kibosh on the rollbacks and sent them back to our class.  About this same time, three guys from the class ahead of us who had failed their NRC exam rolled into our class.  Confused yet?

So one day the OPs Training Manager, our ILT lead instructor, and a senior SM assigned to training sat us all down and explained what had happened.  During this brief, they basically told us that despite what had happened in the past, there was no guarantee of employment if you did not license.  They also said, like I previously posted, that HR (pretty sure it was Corporate HR) challenged them to justify keeping guys when they hired us assuming a 70% success rate and our manning plan didn't have positions for these guys to fill.

Summary:
Dropout #1 (no mini-systems):  Assigned two classes behind us.
Dropout #2 (no mini-systems):  Rolled back just before the audit to the class behind us.
Dropout #3 (poor grades/family issues):  Removed from class, in PERgatory (works for OPs Support, no decision on his future)
Dropout #4 (pulled out just before Audit, previous SRO):  Issued 90 day letter. 
Dropout #5 (Rolled in from the class ahead us, failed our Audit hard, previously qualified RO on a BWR):  Hired as a Work Week Manager at our plant.
Dropout #6 (in class the whole time):  Rolled back to the class behind us.

Pending any more questions or challenges, end of brief.
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2011, 06:14 by DDMurray »
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

Offline jimbo0697

Re: Job Security
« Reply #65 on: Nov 08, 2011, 06:47 »
For questions regarding the validity of facts about the class as it was given, I took the time to forward all emails about the class from my work email to my personal email.  Some people questioned wether or not they were hearing a one sided story from disgruntled employee's.  I would be happy to send emails minus names from the company stating what was said.  As for me, I'm not upset.  I learned a great deal from this experience.  It was a hard lesson, but one I will not need to learn again.  I will never be mediocre.  I will never work for that utility again (if I ever have the opportunity).  Last but not least, everything is a evalution.  There are no "free looks".  The company pays too much to give them out.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #66 on: Nov 14, 2011, 04:45 »
Here's the scenario:  We were in EOPs or IPO.  One of our guys had failed the most recent exam and had been struggling some in the simulator.  He was one of four guys that had not attended mini-systems or had on-shift time with the AUOs like the rest of us (a different story).  In start-up cert training one of the four failed an exam and was rolled back two classes so he could repeat systems and do his AUO time.  Another guy was struggling academically and had some issues at home.  They heard from OPs Mgmt that they were being rolled back to the class that was just starting systems.  They both moved into the new classroom.  A week or two goes by and lo and behold at the official TRB, plant management put the kibosh on the rollbacks and sent them back to our class.  About this same time, three guys from the class ahead of us who had failed their NRC exam rolled into our class.  Confused yet?

So one day the OPs Training Manager, our ILT lead instructor, and a senior SM assigned to training sat us all down and explained what had happened.  During this brief, they basically told us that despite what had happened in the past, there was no guarantee of employment if you did not license.  They also said, like I previously posted, that HR (pretty sure it was Corporate HR) challenged them to justify keeping guys when they hired us assuming a 70% success rate and our manning plan didn't have positions for these guys to fill.

Summary:
Dropout #1 (no mini-systems):  Assigned two classes behind us.
Dropout #2 (no mini-systems):  Rolled back just before the audit to the class behind us.
Dropout #3 (poor grades/family issues):  Removed from class, in PERgatory (works for OPs Support, no decision on his future)
Dropout #4 (pulled out just before Audit, previous SRO):  Issued 90 day letter. 
Dropout #5 (Rolled in from the class ahead us, failed our Audit hard, previously qualified RO on a BWR):  Hired as a Work Week Manager at our plant.
Dropout #6 (in class the whole time):  Rolled back to the class behind us.

Pending any more questions or challenges, end of brief.


The point is I know what the 70% number was based on as I helped with the manning plans for both sites. It was not a number above which a cut was made and HR never supported that.


mwdavis

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #67 on: Nov 14, 2011, 08:39 »
We had 3 test left including the comp test to bring our average to a 85 from a 80.  With 7 test factored in it was impossible. 

9 weekly tests and a final comp might have been a clue as to how "free" it was ever intended to be.....

Offline Contract SRO

Re: Job Security
« Reply #68 on: Nov 15, 2011, 11:04 »
I think people that weren't actually involved don't know what really happened.

Having been a SRO Licensed training instructor since 1991, I have observed all sorts of motivation used with students in training.  I have been on the receiving end and I have been on the giving end.  It has been explained pretty well in the previous posts but seems some do not want to see any other point of view except their own.  Commercial nuclear power is unforgiving in it's expectation.  It needs to be.  This is not a trivial industry.  It was explained previously that you are always under a microscope.  You let down your guard and you will pay for it.  Does it put you under a lot a pressure, yes and no.  If you go into it with an intent to do what ever it takes to make it through the process, your odds are pretty good of success.  It you think that you can take on school and have a dozen other outside activities that you participate in at the same time, good luck.  I have observed some very bright people fail out because they did not keep there eye on the goal of getting through school.  Some things that you choose to call lies are nothing more than motivational tools to find out what a person is made of.  I retired from the utility that this thread was start about so I know a little about how they do business.  They are far from perfect but having worked as a consultant for several utilities I have found that there is very little difference in the underlying thought process they use.  Some may dress it up a little different but bottom line they are in business to make money and there is some give and take but there is a point when they protect the bottom line.

I have had gut wrenching feelings seeing people cut out of the program but sometimes people are just not in the right place in their life or the right mindset to be in school at the time they are there.  I hope people will consider that there are many factors here at work and there is not always a black and white, right or wrong to some decisions.

Thanks for letting me run on about the subject.

Offline DDMurray

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #69 on: Nov 15, 2011, 06:31 »

The point is I know what the 70% number was based on as I helped with the manning plans for both sites. It was not a number above which a cut was made and HR never supported that.


So you were responsible for the numbers of NAUOs we have that is a key driver of many of our challenges with RO upgrades and minimal staffing on shift to support work?  We had a saying for this kind of help in the Navy, maybe you remember it :  Thanks Shipmate!   :-* ;D

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
T. Roosevelt

LaFeet

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #70 on: Nov 16, 2011, 09:39 »
Just remember   Buddy is only half the word...... :P

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #71 on: Nov 25, 2011, 07:44 »
That's fine contract SRO.  If that is what get's results, good for them.  But if someone says one thing and does another, what is that bottom line?  And again, I wouldn't want to be part of something that needs to flirt the line with dishonesty (dishonesty that may have cost people jobs) to get results.  We can dress this situation with alot of talk about "you want me on that line you need me on that line!" but (I don't know since I wasn't there) people may have been lied to here.  For all the people that get on here and ask for help in situations where they didn't do the right thing, they are treated unmercifully by some on these forums.  But when it seems like a company didn't do the right thing, those same people jump up and down in defense of the company. 

Maybe it is necessary to lie to people for successful licensed reactor operations, or whatever you want to call it, how about "pretending one thing than doing another"?  Fine, that is a point that can be argued and I will agree that because I don't have a lic, I'm not qualified to argue that point at all.  All I'm saying is that these people may have been lied to, not whether it was for the greater good or not.  Separate conversation.

Offline Contract SRO

Re: Job Security
« Reply #72 on: Dec 09, 2011, 11:23 »
I agree with you.  Dishonesty is should never be a motivational tool.  If someone/company (the individual is often the case as opposed to the company) is using it that way then either one is wrong.

I have also seen things start out with good intentions and turn bad as things went on.  Example - a class is told that this will not count assuming that everyone will still put forth their best effort and when they do not put their best into it someone changes the rules.  This is not right from either side but the key to dealing with it is regular communications not last minute knee jerk reactions.

I did not mean to indicate that dishonesty is OK or even acceptable just trying to encourage trainees to put your best into your training and you will have a fighting chance at being successful.  Anything less, you may have had fun(a wonderful quality of life) but find yourself hunting another job.

Offline Jazz

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #73 on: Jul 10, 2012, 10:06 »
Aside from a few key details missing, its been stated several times the very nature of this is business. Moving forward, would it be wise for one to list a termination like this on a resume or just leave it as a gap in employment? Future employers seldom consider specifics when 'terminated while on probationary period' is in the meat of a employment history. Or is there a bright side?

Offline VTnuke

Re: Job Security
« Reply #74 on: Jul 12, 2012, 10:30 »
This is true @ my plant.  However, its an 87 for SROs.

 


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