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Offline jimbo0697

Re: Job Security
« Reply #25 on: Nov 01, 2011, 04:38 »
All of you guys are correct.  I shouldn't have been dragging the bottom.  I did learn a lesson all be it a difficult one.  It never pays to be average or just meeting expectations.  I am not bitter at the company.  I still believe it is a good overall place to be.  Just be carefull and do not believe what they tell you.  Never position yourself near the bottom.  Do not think that your job is secure.  As much as they tell you they care about you, your family,  your well being remember you are only a dollar sign.  And if your dollar sign has a - before it you are dragging down the bottom line.  That is the Southern Company philosophy and probably a few others.  I will never make the same mistake again if I get another opportunity.  In my career in the military I was always near the top.  I took on too many things outside of work to be able to give the pre class class the attention it deserved.  Thinking it was what I was told it shouldn't have been too much.  I now understand everything is a evaluation and that is not something I will ever forget.
« Last Edit: Nov 02, 2011, 08:02 by jimbo0697 »

Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #26 on: Nov 02, 2011, 07:08 »
wait wait wait... this guy is upset.... because "his friends" got fired (I have a "friend" that got "laid off" for "medical reasons" arkansas.... lol)  for... not meeting the requirements of a course.... that you signed a piece of paper saying you maintain standards for... which.... good lord...  how pedantic...


edit: my "friend" was let go from an entergy company with a union ... lol
« Last Edit: Nov 02, 2011, 07:09 by Starkist »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #27 on: Nov 03, 2011, 04:40 »
(I have a "friend" that got "laid off" for "medical reasons" arkansas.... lol)
was it his "medicine" that got him laid off?  was he out in californicate for a while?  jist axing..... ;)
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Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #28 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:25 »
was it his "medicine" that got him laid off?  was he out in californicate for a while?  jist axing..... ;)

haha no.... his "medicine" turned out to be a poor diagnosis from a ER doctor, but the underlying cause led him to get laid off 6 months later :p


Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #29 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:43 »
If what Jimbo says is true about being told the class was a "free look", very devious on management's part.  And not right.  Sure life's not fair, but being in that class was supposedly about learning, not so much about a grade it seems from the desccription.  I focused on some stuff in a couple of my college classes that was more interesting to me even though I knew it probably would affect my grade negatively because I was there to learn first and get good grades 2nd (a close 2nd).  And I'd do it the same way if I had it to do over again. Yeah I was paying to learn, not the other way around, but these people were given a line of BS. Seems like learning should come first in this case, grades 2nd.  If people were screwing off in class, then ok, maybe some firings should have happened.  Maybe mgment needed to get rid of some bodies and they figured it out right around week 5, or maybe they planned it all along.  That exact thing happened where I work, but the two people fired deserved it, so it all worked out.  And they got them with the same line at the start of the training (will not affect your job).  But changed minds due to budget concerns it seemed.  Step into my office because.....

Maybe the people that were fired were not well liked or not thought of as good future employees and this was just an excuse to get rid of them.  Could be a good apple got thrown out with the bad apples because he/she met the same BS criteria to be fired to avoid a lawsuit.  Exacerbated by realizing they already had enough apples anyway??....

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #30 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:46 »
If what Jimbo says is true about being told the class was a "free look", very devious on management's part.  And not right.  Sure life's not fair, but being in that class was supposedly about learning, not so much about a grade it seems from the desccription.  I focused on some stuff in a couple of my college classes that was more interesting to me even though I knew it probably would affect my grade negatively because I was there to learn first and get good grades 2nd (a close 2nd).  And I'd do it the same way if I had it to do over again. Yeah I was paying to learn, not the other way around, but these people were given a line of BS. Seems like learning should come first in this case, grades 2nd.  If people were screwing off in class, then ok, maybe some firings should have happened.  Maybe mgment needed to get rid of some bodies and they figured it out right around week 5, or maybe they planned it all along.  That exact thing happened where I work, but the two people fired deserved it, so it all worked out.  And they got them with the same line at the start of the training (will not affect your job).  But changed minds due to budget concerns it seemed.  Step into my office because.....

Maybe the people that were fired were not well liked or not thought of as good future employees and this was just an excuse to get rid of them.  Could be a good apple got thrown out with the bad apples because he/she met the same BS criteria to be fired to avoid a lawsuit.  Exacerbated by realizing they already had enough apples anyway??....


Incorrect. Obviously you have never been a part of an NRC license program have you?

Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #31 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:54 »

Maybe the people that were fired were not well liked or not thought of as good future employees and this was just an excuse to get rid of them.  Could be a good apple got thrown out with the bad apples because he/she met the same BS criteria to be fired to avoid a lawsuit.  Exacerbated by realizing they already had enough apples anyway??....

The people fired in my class were VERY well liked, worked very hard during the outage, and spent 3-6 hours a night AFTER class let up, not being paid over time, so they could study. 

Grades on a multiple choice test are indicative of what you have learned, and your ability to convey said knowledge. If you suck on those tests, it means you aren't learning. And no matter how liked and how hard of a worker you are, the minimum grades are there for a reason, no?

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Job Security
« Reply #32 on: Nov 04, 2011, 07:52 »
haha no.... his "medicine" turned out to be a poor diagnosis from a ER doctor, but the underlying cause led him to get laid off 6 months later :p

On the other side, seemingly “simple” concepts as pronouns may throw a person with Asperger’s. A child learning to talk may refer to everyone using the same pronoun, or refer to themselves in third person.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergers-diary/200804/what-does-it-mean-have-asperger-syndrome

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #33 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:36 »
didn't sound like real lic. class to me.  have you actually been reading the posts?

Offline Starkist

Re: Job Security
« Reply #34 on: Nov 04, 2011, 08:59 »

On the other side, seemingly “simple” concepts as pronouns may throw a person with Asperger’s. A child learning to talk may refer to everyone using the same pronoun, or refer to themselves in third person.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/aspergers-diary/200804/what-does-it-mean-have-asperger-syndrome


matthew.b

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #35 on: Nov 04, 2011, 10:28 »
I'm quite certain that any position at a nuclear plant that requires testing should weed out someone with Asperger's.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #36 on: Nov 04, 2011, 10:45 »
didn't sound like real lic. class to me.  have you actually been reading the posts?

You did not answer my question..

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #37 on: Nov 04, 2011, 11:54 »
since it has nothing to do with whether these people were lied to or not, I will continue not to answer it.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #38 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:27 »
since it has nothing to do with whether these people were lied to or not, I will continue not to answer it.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Rule number 1 of actually HAVING or OBTAINING a License. You are ALWAYS on the bubble, everything you do, everything you say, everything you think regardless of when or where you think it is evaluated by someone.

If a person cannot pass a pre course they most likely do not belong in the program, at least at that time. It's up to the utility to decide to cut their losses or not.

We do not reward mediocrity.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #39 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:28 »
so if in fact these people were lied too, you are saying that is ok?

MacGyver

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #40 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:33 »
It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Rule number 1 of actually HAVING or OBTAINING a License. You are ALWAYS on the bubble, everything you do, everything you say, everything you think regardless of when or where you think it is evaluated by someone.

If a person cannot pass a pre course they most likely do not belong in the program, at least at that time. It's up to the utility to decide to cut their losses or not.

We do not reward mediocrity.

Absolutely true.  And, absolutely true.  Not so true.  But, it's in the right area code.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #41 on: Nov 04, 2011, 12:58 »
so if in fact these people were lied too, you are saying that is ok?

No one was lied to. I believe we are hearing some selective after the fact stories.

MacGyver LOL your point well taken!

Offline Gamma Glue

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #42 on: Nov 04, 2011, 01:07 »
so if in fact these people were lied too, you are saying that is ok?

They weren't lied to. It was all a test. They were told there tests didn't matter, but they were being tested on how hard they tried on their tests when they didn't think the tests mattered. Part of the test was understanding that it was a test. When those being tested didn't do well on the tests, they failed. The testers that didn't test the limits did well on the tests and got to continue to take the real tests.
I see it all the time...

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #43 on: Nov 04, 2011, 02:17 »
Not certain I would go to that extent, I have never been one to associate a test score with effort as the guy in my nuke school class who got the lowest scores put in the most effort... Saw the same thing in a recent license class and both guys ended up being fantastic operators.

The overall assessment is correct, you best show you are doing your best even when you believe it does not count. That is always how a licensed operator is evaluated and it's the only way it can be.

The same rule applies when talking with INPO, QA, or the NRC. NOTHING is off the record so always put your best foot forward as everytime you deal with one of those groups (and in fact any other entity) you are representing your fellow workers, your boss, your plant, and your utility.

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #44 on: Nov 04, 2011, 04:05 »
I'm quite certain that any position at a nuclear plant that requires testing should weed out someone with Asperger's.

I'd have to disagree with this as some with Aspergers do well at test taking, not all but some.  I don't know that we'd need to "weed out" anyone with Aspergers.  We'd probably be surprised (maybe not) at the actual numbers in the plants, though I think they're higher in the engineering department due to characteristics of the syndrome.
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #45 on: Nov 04, 2011, 05:00 »
I'm not so sure they weren't lied to.  I wouldn't want to be part of an organization that tries to trick it's emplolyees as regular practice.  Many people always assume the worst about people on these forums when they post something bad that happened to them and automatically disrespect them.  I don't like it.  Lots of times they are whiners but people do get railroaded.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #46 on: Nov 04, 2011, 06:30 »
I'm not so sure they weren't lied to.  I wouldn't want to be part of an organization that tries to trick it's emplolyees as regular practice.  Many people always assume the worst about people on these forums when they post something bad that happened to them and automatically disrespect them.  I don't like it.  Lots of times they are whiners but people do get railroaded.

Incorrect. These guys simply did not have what it took to get licenses so the utility cut its losses.

Fermi2

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #47 on: Nov 04, 2011, 06:32 »
I'm quite certain that any position at a nuclear plant that requires testing should weed out someone with Asperger's.

How sad you would say this.

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Re: Job Security
« Reply #48 on: Nov 05, 2011, 06:37 »
One of the guys who was given his 90 day letter in my class came to us as a previously licensed SRO from Southern Company.  He was averaging in the low 80s on exams and basically did not embrace our company's expectations on how to operate in the simulator.  The Friday before our Audit Exam, an instructor came in, asked him to step outside the classroom for a minute and that was that.  IMHO he was dropped because he had earned the reputation of minimal effort and not playing well with others.  He's a great guy and I hated to see his family go through this, but I understand why it happened.

How much a company invests in ILT students probably plays a big role when companies drop students.  14 students in my class just got their license.  We started with 16, lost a few and gained a few from a previous class.  It took 2 1/2 years at a ballpark $100K per year per student.  That's a pretty hefty investment.  We were briefed about 3/4 of the way through our training that there was a lot of pressure from HR to cut people who weren't making it because we were hired based on an assumed 70% pass rate.  It was management's shot across the bow after some guys dropped some tests and assumed they were rolling back to the class behind us.
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Offline CT-Mike

Re: Job Security
« Reply #49 on: Nov 05, 2011, 08:56 »
One thing I have learned after going through the licensing process not to trust a trainer when they say something (exam, SIM session, whatever) doesn't count. As a plant operator, especially a licensed operator, you are constantly being scrutinized and evaluated. It has to be that way to ensure that the units are operated safely.

Also, when you are in the training program, your future depends on your success. The bottom line is that the company has invested a lot of time and money on you to get that license, and if they see that you aren't putting forth your best effort, you are wasting their time and you will get cut.  Sadly, sometimes best effort isn't enough and people get cut.

In my class we started with 18:

- 3 RO candidates: all licensed
- 3 Upgrades: all licensed
- 1 STA becoming SRO: licensed
- 1 retired ETC direct SRO (me): licensed
- 1 retired O5 direct SRO: licensed
- 1 Electric Boat STE direct SRO: licensed
- 1 previous SM/trainer getting his license back: licensed
- 7 Engineer direct SRO candidates: 1 licensed, 1 became an STA, and the others got the axe ( not fired, just dropped from the program and went back to engineering).

So we went 12/12 on the audit and NRC exam, but the throughput was rather low.  It is tough program and there is no room for those who would try to skate along.

YMMV.

 


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