Eligibility Questions

[adamking10]

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum and have come here to hopefully find some answers to my current problems regarding enlisting into the Navy Nuclear Field. I recently took the ASVAB and scored a 98, with a nuclear field line score of 272. I am having some issues with my past record though. I was arrested twice when i was 19 (I am almost 22 now). The first time was for a fight with a friend in which cops were called and I was charged with battery. The second time was for underage consumption and disorderly conduct, and the consumption was later dropped. My other issue is that I received a D in AP Pre-Calculus my senior year of high school as a result of many absences. Since Advanced Placement classes are weighted more for GPA, that D would really be the same as a C in a regular class. My recruiter told me that I would need waivers to be able to join the Nuke Program. I then filled out handwritten statements concerning all of my issues for the recruiter to take to his superior to determine my eligibility. After waiting a few weeks, my recruiter told me that he had taken the papers and it looks like it's going to be a very slim chance of me getting into Nuke, in which he then tried to talk me into signing up for a different job. I told him that this really messes up my plans because the Nuclear Program was the entire reason I wanted to join the Navy and that is all I am interested in. Another month went by, then he called me and said I needed to come in to fix the handwritten statements I had filled out so he could take them to someone higher up that would determine if I am eligible or not. So, it turns out he had never taken my statements before and just told me he talked to them. I then made new statements and was told that he took them over later that day. He never called me back after a week, so I went in and asked about what he found out. I was told that I had been denied because 3 waivers are too many to be able to be accepted into the Nuke Program. So my question is, is there any type of appeal process I can go through to have my case further examined? Or is there a way I can set up an appointment to speak with someone higher up than my recruiter? I feel that receiving a D in an Advanced Placement math class that I took as an elective my senior year should not be a reason to deny me from being accepted into the Nuke Program. I thought that the ASVAB, not my high school grades when I was 17, is what is used to determine what jobs I am capable of doing. I also feel that my recruiter is not doing all he can do to get me into Nuke and he is just trying whatever is easiest for him. Any help concerning this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

[NukeLDO]

In this economy, the recruiters (and Navy) can be very selective in choosing people.  Why should they go through the hassle of sheperding waivers through the system when they can fill their quota without doing that?
And contrary to the popular belief of many high school kids (my own included), grades do matter.

[IPREGEN]

If you did appeal, get all the waivers to enter nuke school and did not do well, you would become part of the regular Navy. Not exactly what you want.  The military has already figured out what it takes to be successful in their programs. When they tell you no, it is because they have a long history of people just like you to back up their decision making. You may feel that this is unfair and you should be given a chance, but the Navy is doing you a favor now by saying no.

[Starkist]

Too many waivers excuse is bull-$#!^.

Despite these two negative nancy's before me, I had  waivers in the teens. I graduated, highschool with around a 2.3 gpa, D's and F's abounded. I had no criminal background though... Last I heard, nuke was still a critical manning issue.

Do yourself a favor, drive an hour and go find a different recruiter.

[MMM]

Another thing you could try is taking some classes at a community college, get better grades, to show that you're more mature now. I don't know for sure if it would work, but being able to show A's and B's from college classes would probably help on your statements.

[Higgs]

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum and have come here to hopefully find some answers to my current problems regarding enlisting into the Navy Nuclear Field. I recently took the ASVAB and scored a 98, with a nuclear field line score of 272. I am having some issues with my past record though. I was arrested twice when i was 19 (I am almost 22 now). The first time was for a fight with a friend in which cops were called and I was charged with battery. The second time was for underage consumption and disorderly conduct, and the consumption was later dropped. My other issue is that I received a D in AP Pre-Calculus my senior year of high school as a result of many absences. Since Advanced Placement classes are weighted more for GPA, that D would really be the same as a C in a regular class. My recruiter told me that I would need waivers to be able to join the Nuke Program. I then filled out handwritten statements concerning all of my issues for the recruiter to take to his superior to determine my eligibility. After waiting a few weeks, my recruiter told me that he had taken the papers and it looks like it's going to be a very slim chance of me getting into Nuke, in which he then tried to talk me into signing up for a different job. I told him that this really messes up my plans because the Nuclear Program was the entire reason I wanted to join the Navy and that is all I am interested in. Another month went by, then he called me and said I needed to come in to fix the handwritten statements I had filled out so he could take them to someone higher up that would determine if I am eligible or not. So, it turns out he had never taken my statements before and just told me he talked to them. I then made new statements and was told that he took them over later that day. He never called me back after a week, so I went in and asked about what he found out. I was told that I had been denied because 3 waivers are too many to be able to be accepted into the Nuke Program. So my question is, is there any type of appeal process I can go through to have my case further examined? Or is there a way I can set up an appointment to speak with someone higher up than my recruiter? I feel that receiving a D in an Advanced Placement math class that I took as an elective my senior year should not be a reason to deny me from being accepted into the Nuke Program. I thought that the ASVAB, not my high school grades when I was 17, is what is used to determine what jobs I am capable of doing. I also feel that my recruiter is not doing all he can do to get me into Nuke and he is just trying whatever is easiest for him. Any help concerning this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much.

You have a proven track record of unreliability. Why should he bend over backwards to get you in, when there are much better qualified candidates out there? I, for one, want my nuclear Navy to have high standards.

I agree with MMM, go prove you've changed, instead of coming here and blaming others for not working hard enough to push you through despite your record.

[bradley535]

   The following is a post I made for else in almost the exact same circumstances as you. You may want to peruse that topic for other applicable information

 

  When I joined, I had the same thing happen to me. In the end I needed five waivers in total (my teen years were not spent wisely), but I still got what I needed and got into the Nuke program.

   My recruiter also told me that I should sign up under a different contract, and that they could change it while I was in DEP. Now in my case, I was really just looking to join the Navy and wanted to go Nuke because it's what they needed (only later did I find out it was exactly what I needed too). I signed, they contacted me, and then I signed a new contract to be in the Nuke program. I later found out that I was the exception in these scenarios and not the rule.

   My advice is not to sign anything that you are not ready to commit to. That waiver is not difficult to get, and they will hunt it down for you in order to get you to sign on the dotted line. If you sign a different contract, and they decide that it's good enough just to have a warm body fill a position, then you could be stuck with the rate you've committed yourself to. My point is, signing that contract does absolutely nothing for improving your chances for getting into the Nuke program, and may actually be a detriment. If you won't be happy being a Fire Control Technician or Torpedoman then don't sign up as one.

   One thing that I will add on is that your recruiter has a quota to reach. He wants to sign you on as quickly as possible to whatever job he can get you to sign on to in order to reach his quota. He may not know what your real chances are for getting into the Nuke program, but he does know that his chances of recruiting you go up drastically if you are willing to take whatever he gives you.

  Good luck and keep us posted,

       Bradley

[Higgs]

  The following is a post I made for else in almost the exact same circumstances as you. You may want to peruse that topic for other applicable information

Exact same?

I am having some issues with my past record though. I was arrested twice when i was 19 (I am almost 22 now). The first time was for a fight with a friend in which cops were called and I was charged with battery. The second time was for underage consumption and disorderly conduct, and the consumption was later dropped.

I highly doubt his "D", or the number of wavers, is holding him back.  

[bradley535]

   Well... maybe not exact same situation, but my advice is still the same. I suppose my own circumstances were more closely related than those of the example I gave. I will, however, not pass judgement on our new poster as I am not perfect myself. I cannot speak to his situation, nor his current maturity level. What I can say is that my own failings in youth did not hold me back from becoming a Navy Nuke. Nor did those early halcyon days of hazardous frivolity keep me from a career once I got out.

   To that same end, I cannot speak for what adamking10's recruiter is like. I can only use what I know of recruiters that I have dealt with to extrapolate a biased opinion. I can say it would do no harm to look to another recruiting station for help. Or, if you doubt the validity of the recruiters word; you could ask for the waiver denial paperwork. If he states that he cannot reproduce this paperwork, I would certainly be suspicious.

   I had five waivers, yet they seemed quite ready to accept me into the Nuke program. A decade has passed since then, so perhaps the times have changed. All the same, if it is something you want then extra effort is warranted.

[DockeTT]

It does seem to be a lot about how many waivers they have these days.  The numbers say if you have more waivers, you have a better chance of not making it through nuke school.  Three waivers isn't unheard of at all these days, but the poster seems to have a pretty good record of disorderly conduct related offenses which I doubt they want at nuke school.  He also mentioned he is 22, so he may not have taken a math or science class that would prove his ability to make it through school since getting a D his senior year of high school. 

I've got to agree with NukeLDO and IPREGEN on this one, I doubt that extra effort would even help...

[GLW]

.....Since Advanced Placement classes are weighted more for GPA, that D would really be the same as a C in a regular class.....

....Since BUD/S is more demanding than USA Infantry School ringing the bell should be the same as a CIB....

...... I feel that receiving a D in an Advanced Placement math class that I took as an elective my senior year should not be a reason to deny me from being accepted into the Nuke Program.......

....I feel that the inability to adequately read an RO-2 should not be a reason to prevent me from monitoring occupational radiation workers in around the Spent Fuel Pool....

.....I thought that the ASVAB, not my high school grades when I was 17, is what is used to determine what jobs I am capable of doing......

....I thought the EEI, not the POSS is what is used to determine if the RO job is what I am capable of doing....

I also feel that my recruiter is not doing all he can do to get me into Nuke and he is just trying whatever is easiest for him.

....I also feel the utility is not doing all it can to get me into operations and they are just trying whatever is easiest for them....


And there ladies and gentlemen is the result of the last thirty years of "You are as good as you feel you are" and "You are entitled
to be given all your aspirations simply because you breathe" dogma in the public and associated schools of the USA,....

[MrHazmat]

 .....  So True ........

[RDTroja]

And there ladies and gentlemen is the result of the last thirty years of "You are as good as you feel you are" and "You are entitled
to be given all your aspirations simply because you breathe" dogma in the public and associated schools of the USA,....

Beauty... 

[IRLFAN]

True.  Schools in this country are no longer about learning or education.  The most important thing is "self esteem".

[thenukeman]

Where is the love??   This is not Poly Sci This guy just needs some love and hugs to feel better!!!!  I bet GLW is one of those mean Conservatives. 

[adamking10]

Thanks for the input everyone. I forgot to mention that I also completed Advanced Placement Chemistry 1 and 2, as well as Advanced Placement Physics 1 and 2 during my junior and senior years of high school and received A's and B's in these classes. I am aware that my past record depicts me negatively, and makes me look very unreliable. I very much regret the mistakes I have made and just hope that these stupid actions don't ruin my chances of becoming a Navy Nuke. Although my record makes me look like some punk who doesn't listen to s**t, I have matured a lot since my teenage high school years. I just need to figure out a way to prove this to the Navy and my recruiter. I guess my only option now is to continue to visit my recruiter a few times a week, in order to show him that I mean business and am very serious about wanting to join Nuke. Perhaps upon seeing my persistence, he will then be more inclined to do the extra work necessary to get my waivers pushed through the system and accepted. If that doesn't work, then I will go find another recruiter to speak with and see what answers I get from them. Any opinions on this plan? Does anyone think that if I continue to consistently prove my maturity and my interest in the Nuke Program to my recruiter that this will increase my chances of getting my waivers sent in and approved? Once again, any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Starkist]

Please listen to me adam. go find a different recruiter now.  This recruiter apparently has already "made up his mind".  Recruiters don't do the waivers. They send them off to some brains that sit in an office in BUPERS. They merely facilitate the transition of pen to paper  then fax it over.


edit : recruiters can "lose" paperwork as much as the next guy. Some (like any other position in the world) are in no hurry to do their jobs.

[NukeLDO]

The advice to go prove you've matured by taking a college course or two is sound, and persistence could pay off.  I also agree that you might want to take the drive and see another recruiter once you've done a few things to indicate you've done some growing up.

[GLW]

.....Does anyone think that if I continue to consistently prove my maturity and my interest in the Nuke Program to my recruiter that this will increase my chances of getting my waivers sent in and approved? Once again, any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

You asked.

You're not proving maturity.

You're proving you want what you want when you want it, not that you can deliver on the obligations that go hand in hand with the opportunities.

To wit;

You performed well on some AP course commitments but not others. This dichotomy leads to two conclusions;
(1)
You qualified to be an AP student but failed to adequately deliver across the board on the premium resources dedicated to you through your school district, resources which are above and beyond what is required to provide an adequate high school education and which, at the end of the day benefit you much more than they ever benefit those who pay the taxes to support your school district.

Should this history of failing to adequately perform continue in the Navy Nuclear Power Program (NNPP) your failure will have denied a slot to someone who may very well have performed adequately and completed the program. All the resources expended upon you until your failure are also lost and wasted, and the Navy is accountable to others to not expend those resources nilly willy on every smart but lazy so and so who walks through the recruiters door and states he/she would love to be a Navy nuke and get those big bonuses too. The NNPP will have courses of instruction you will have an affinity for and others you will struggle with, they must all be completed adequately to complete the program.

or

(2)
You were never really qualified to be an AP student and your school district failed to determine a course of instruction where you could succeed. Your school district failed you by failing to match your potential to your curriculum challenges.

The Navy does not desire to repeat that mistake as you will not be challenged only academically, you will also have to adapt to the Navy discipline, lifestyle, duty roster and obligations, mindset and the Navy way all while maintaining an adequate performance academically.

The Navy does not want to fail itself or you.

You should read through this thread concerning three generations plus of current and ex Navy Nukes bitching about all the problems endemic to the NNPP;

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,14186.0.html

If the NNPP has not appreciably "improved" in the 23 years since I completed my eight year stint what you read there is what it is.

Perhaps, if you have little better to do, you could take your recruiters option of joining the USN as a non-nuke, pick a nuke rate such as MM, show the Navy you can handle the all the non-NNPP aspects of the Navy way and roll over into nuke at a later date.

OBTW,

Based on your latest post I am inclined to consider you may have matured in the last few years.

I am not who you need to convince of that possibility.

Good Luck,.....

(what is perceived to be good luck is more likely the result of unperceived good choices),....

[HydroDave63]

Fleet needs more A Gang!

[DockeTT]

One problem you may also run into is it sounded from the first post like your nuclear program waiver may have already been submitted and denied.  If thats the case, the nuclear recruiter has already submitted your statements, police records, transcripts (with all the extra classes you just listed included) and they said no.  If thats the case, a few extra trips to the recruiter and a couple of college classes won't do anything for you anyway.  You may want to start by finding out if you have a lazy recruiter or if your stuff has actually been submitted to the nuke guys.

[Starkist]

One problem you may also run into is it sounded from the first post like your nuclear program waiver may have already been submitted and denied.  If thats the case, the nuclear recruiter has already submitted your statements, police records, transcripts (with all the extra classes you just listed included) and they said no.  If thats the case, a few extra trips to the recruiter and a couple of college classes won't do anything for you anyway.  You may want to start by finding out if you have a lazy recruiter or if your stuff has actually been submitted to the nuke guys.

Read closer, I see an irritated recruiter who doesnt want to do his job.  Has he even spoke with the nuke recruiter?

[HydroDave63]

Read closer, I see an irritated recruiter who doesnt want to do his job.  Has he even spoke with the nuke recruiter?

In your view, which applicants should NOT get referred? Would any be denied, or forward ALL of them and let the pipeline filter them out at huge expense?

[Higgs]

Read closer, I see an irritated recruiter who doesnt want to do his job.  Has he even spoke with the nuke recruiter?

Read closer. I see a criminal, the likes of which the military doesnt need or want.

[DockeTT]

Read closer, I see an irritated recruiter who doesnt want to do his job.  Has he even spoke with the nuke recruiter?

He doesn't have to.  Of course it's good practice that the nuke recruiter speak to him, but if he feels he's submitting a waiver that doesn't have a chance to be approved anyway he might not actually ever talk to the kid.  Or the nuke recruiter took it upon himself to screen this kid out because he didn't want him in his nuclear navy, which he is allowed to do.  He did say that his recruiter told him he had been denied, so either his recruiter is lazy and lied to him, the nuke recruiter did the waiver and he was denied, or the nuke recruiter did the work for the higher ups.