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Jeveroettn

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SSBN vs. SSN
« on: Oct 26, 2004, 04:46 »
Which class of sub would you all recommend for an officer, SSN or SSBN?  What are the advantages and disadvantages of both?  I wish to have the most time at home if possible, and I know that SSBNs offer the most of that, but I would still like to know the ins and outs of both.  Also, most say that the boomer missions are boring; how so?  Do either effect advancement speed?  Any information comparing boomers and fast attacks would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

Offline Marlin

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #1 on: Oct 26, 2004, 06:24 »
  An easy way to describe the difference between SSN and SSBN is that when a "Boomer' hears something he runs and hides, when an "Attack" boat hears something he moves toward it. As a junior officer I do not believe that you will find any difference in your career serving on either vessel. As you progress, I assume command being your goal, the responsibility of the "Boomer" CO can be seen as greater. An SSN command may provide a more interesting diverse challenge. There will be a third class of sub soon, the SSGN, which has been nicknamed the underwater battleship. With a capacity for 50 special forces personell with facilities and equipment to accomodate thier missions, and a massive amount of firepower in cruise missles. I think this would be the sub that would interest me if I were entering the service at this time. If you are looking for time at home remember the phrase ...Big and black and don't come back... is well known to the Attack sailors.
« Last Edit: Dec 07, 2004, 01:37 by Marlin »

Offline CharlieRock

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #2 on: Oct 27, 2004, 06:44 »
Neither affects your advancement rate, at least through selection to LCDR (O-4).  For further advancement, including CO screening, it is becoming common for officers to have both fast attack and boomer tours.  Given the choice, however, I would start out with SSBNs.  If you don't like that life, fast attacks will kill you.  Unfortunately you may not have the choice.  Needs of the Navy...

LaFeet

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #3 on: Dec 06, 2004, 09:51 »
Any quick study will advance to LT at a standard pace....Fast boat Os may have a shorter time than Boomers...only because of the ships op schedules.

The life style between Boomers and Fast boats is akin to Upscale Bosonians living next door a trailer park in West Virginia.....

Fast boats are more demanding, Boomers allow more family time - or time off.
Fast boats tend to visit more exotic ports, Boomers tend to convince you that Anapollis is a Liberty port.

Fast boats can have their schedules changed (altered, lengthed, terminated) at the drop of a hat.  And with the much fewer number of fast boats these days, things will most likely only get worse.

Boomers usually follow a set regement....unless something breaks.

I geuss you will have to determine what you really want.

And yes... LCDRs and CDRs that have both types of boats in their resume tend to reach Department head /  XO positions faster....  good luck and fair seas sailor.....

Offline Already Gone

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #4 on: Dec 06, 2004, 10:08 »
If time at home is a high priority, go work at the gas company.  The Navy ain't the place for guys who place a lot of value on hearth and home. 

Boomers only spend half their time with the boat, but it's a looooonnnggg time.  Fast boats get into port more often for shorter times, but at least you'll recognize your wife when you see her - even if it's only to see her on the pier before you go back out again.

If you are married, I have two words for you:  BOOMER WIDOWS!

The joke was that the Blue crew was sleeping with the wives of the Gold, but in truth the Fast Boat sailors were hittin' them both!!!!

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Offline Already Gone

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #5 on: Dec 07, 2004, 01:16 »
OOOPPPSSS!!!

Did I let the secret out?
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LaFeet

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #6 on: Dec 08, 2004, 03:16 »
Hey Beercourt.. sorry if I hit a nerve about the SMAG thingy..

but my experience with fast boats is that most are away from home port far longer than the Boomer guys.   My first boat was lucky enough to get a SRA in between Northern and Med runs.

But enough about me.. and you are correct about the"Gas Company" option.

Sounds like you really enjoyed your time in... I had my good times, bad times and really crappy time.  but I also had some outstanding times that seemed to make everything balance out.  Even while on a boomer (No body hits the beach like Maryland Blue)...

If I had to do it again, I would go fast attack.  the personnel mind set is just better for my way of life.

HGope to meet you in an outtage soon... LaFeet :)

Offline Already Gone

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #7 on: Dec 08, 2004, 03:33 »
Refresh my memory.  I've been out of the canoe club for 17 years.  What did SMAG stand for?
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LaFeet

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #8 on: Dec 09, 2004, 11:39 »
Slow Moving Ass Grabber


Sorry about that :-\

ODiesel

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #9 on: Dec 14, 2004, 05:35 »
A friend of mine just got orders to the SSGN-727 (USS Michigan) out of Bangor. The SSGNs, initially, sound like the place to be. However, the word at NPTU, whatever thats worth, is that the Michigan will actually spend most of its time in Guam, not in Washington. I have never been to Guam personally, but if the Navy pays you extra to volunteer to go there it can't be the greatest place in the world to be, especially if you're wife is in Washington.

If anyone has any other type of info(or rumors!) on the SSGNs, please post it!! I am coming up on my PRD soon and am looking into where to go.


EM2 O'D

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #10 on: Dec 14, 2004, 07:22 »
I don't know about Guam but I do know that the SSGN schedule will look a lot more like a fast boat than a boomer.  The wargamed schedules call for surges, 6 month (+) deployments, etc.  Plus they're NEW (so to speak).  The Navy is going to want to send these guys everywhere to shoot at anything.  The sub force needs to prove its worth (again) in the 'New World Order'.  Just being the most lethal killing machines on the planet doesn't seem to cut the mustard anymore.

Offline dave99

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #11 on: Dec 14, 2004, 10:01 »
Will SSGN s have multiple crew rotation like the old boomers? I was on the 602 outa Guam from 74-79 and it would have sucked the big one if we didn't have 2 crews with three months off in Pearl in every six months. Those people used to love Japanese Tourists and hate our guts in those days unless you went to the other side of the island. The "regular" routine of boomer life  is more conducive to study. My only Liberty port was Chin He  Korea 1 day in 5 years. Hawaii was nice but they don't play that game anymore. enuff of my rambling...

Offline Marlin

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #12 on: Dec 15, 2004, 09:18 »

If anyone has any other type of info(or rumors!) on the SSGNs, please post it!! I am coming up on my PRD soon and am looking into where to go.


EM2 O'D

This is a public release on the SSGNs.

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_13/ssgn.htm

Offline Already Gone

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #13 on: Dec 15, 2004, 10:01 »
This is a pretty cool way to adapt cold war technology to the new threat situation.
They used to call the latest flight of Los Angeles class boats "SSGN" because we had all those vertical launch tubes.  We thought that was a lot of tactical firepower.  Apparently, the old Trident's will be retrofitted for about six times as many cruise missiles.  (Not counting the ones that can be fired form the torpedo tubes).  I'd hate to have one of those chasing me.

I just hope that the crew and the special forces guys can get along.  It was never good to have those "special" guys of any type on board.  They did nothing but eat our food and sleep in our racks.  Even knowing that their job was important didn't keep us from resenting the hell out of them.  It really sucked to be a MM1 who had to hot rack because ther were a bunch of CT3's on board who were not.
The best scenario would be to integrate them into the crew, make them participate in drills and field day and even in mess crank duty, and expand berthing to accomodate everyone equally.  Considering that they will be a fairly permanent fixture on board, there's no reason to give the crew any reason to resent their presence.
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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #14 on: Dec 15, 2004, 05:09 »
You gotta figure, with the number of bunks we had on the tridents, hot racking shouldn't be a concern.  There were like 13 or 14 9 man bunk rooms for the enlisted.  Plus the goat locker & officer staterooms. Plus, they would put portable bunks down between the supply cabinets in the missle compartment for the junior seamen if we ran out.
« Last Edit: Dec 15, 2004, 05:12 by Gone Sailin' »

RCLCPO

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #15 on: Dec 18, 2004, 02:44 »
Some folks enjoyed it, but to me, being on Guam was like dog years: every month felt like 7............


tijeraspete

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #16 on: Dec 19, 2004, 05:44 »
If you don't want to do much work then become a "boomer fag." If you like to work and get dirty then go fast attack.

Oh, your talking about being an officer. Forget my comments about doing work.

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #17 on: Dec 20, 2004, 12:34 »
Maybe I'm just a slob, but I stayed dirty on both classes, during refit or upkeeps. I was a jr 2nd class on the trident and I could fit almost anywhere so I spent ALOT of time between the condensers, or inside one hydro-blasting and changing zincs. I don't think I'll ever smell that bad again.

I think the two most significant factors that differentiated the two classes, besides the obvious off crew were 1. crew comaradery on the fast boat was tighter and 2. underway time on the boomer was very slow and boring. As far as being a "Boomer Fag", I went to a fast boat after the boomer and went to dive school to regain my dignity and get rid of that damn boomer pin.

My EDMC, from my first boat the USS Sand Lance (at that time EDEA) explained one thing about boomer life that I just didn't get at the time and that was "guarenteed" sea time. You WILL go on patrol. When I split toured to the Topeka from the Michigan and spent almost 20 months in the yards I realized what he was taking about.
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Offline Roll Tide

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #18 on: Dec 20, 2004, 01:16 »
My EDMC, from my first boat the USS Sand Lance (at that time EDEA) explained one thing about boomer life that I just didn't get at the time and that was "guarenteed" sea time. You WILL go on patrol. When I split toured to the Topeka from the Michigan and spent almost 20 months in the yards I realized what he was taking about.

I was on the Sand Lance (a small fish native to northern waters with a defensive mechanism of hiding in the sand at the bottom of the harbor) when she left Charleston. Because it was burrowed in the sand at the bottom of the harbor, I took orders there so I could avoid the Yankees a few more months!

Who was your EDMC?
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Offline sefrick

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #19 on: Dec 20, 2004, 01:36 »
We called him Step, when he was the MDIV LCPO he was like our step dad, his last name was Barret, I don't remember his first name. I reported in 97, there was still one M-div'r onboard from the "wrong flange" incident in Charleston, he left about a month after I reported. I hated that boat while I was there and miss it to death now. Not too many submariners out there can say that they have time at #$@$ Feet or even have a clue what a bromide plant is (A/C from steam, WTF). I decommed her and managed to get some sand from the shaft, everyone thought that was a myth til the shop showed up with a glad bag full of sand.
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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #20 on: Dec 20, 2004, 01:38 »
D**nit, I knew I would remember as soon as I hit "post", Pete Barret.
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Offline Roll Tide

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #21 on: Dec 20, 2004, 04:38 »
Yeah, I got there as a fairly salty 10+ year MM1 (with no shore duty!) and decided to try and scare one MM3 into a higher level of diligence. I explained a Captain's Mast I had been required to witness (one of my NUBS) for a similar shortcut to the one he was planning. Lyden dead-panned, "I've never been to Captain's Mast, is it anything like Admiral's Mast?"

 :o :o :o :o :o :o

I didn't try that again.
 ;D
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Offline sefrick

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #22 on: Dec 20, 2004, 06:44 »
Lyden was the one that was there when I checked on board. I knew that I would know the name when I heard it. Ken Boley was my sea pops
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Offline Roll Tide

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #23 on: Dec 21, 2004, 07:56 »
Lyden was the one that was there when I checked on board. I knew that I would know the name when I heard it. Ken Boley was my sea pops

Lyden was a great guy, but he had a little bit of a problem with showing appropriate concern for Lt.s and Cdr.s after his Admiral's mast for his involvement in the tagout which led to the little problem.

The good old days of the LiBr A/C units...... I was hired for my first job out of the Navy (college campus) because they needed an HVAC tech with LiBr experience. Before I started they had already replaced it!
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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #24 on: Dec 21, 2004, 09:08 »
I didn't get to know him very well, but I knew that he was very ready to get out. By the time I got to the boat our bromide plant was a POS. We did a UNITAS deployment just prior to decom and i remember having to go to a auto parts store in Uarguay to open purchase an epoxy pipe patch kit so we could keep the LiBr pump discharge piping together. I was a nub at the time so I was frequently told to "get in my hole". I still have scares on my fore-arms from shutting down ther 8K. Can't beat 637! Everything from the "rumble in the tunnel" to the cook that we had who fell down the ladderwell coming from storeroom #2 EVERYDAY while doing break outs.

So Roll, curious, are you in operations now?
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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #25 on: Dec 21, 2004, 01:45 »
This week I am Radiation Protection, though it was Radcon last month.  ;)

I am considering going back into OPS.

I hate to admit this, but Sand Lance was in much better shape than the old SSBN I had been on. J.C. Calhoun was in mighty sad shape by her last patrol. M.G.Vallejo was in sad shape for her last one, but not nearly as bad as Calhoun.

I walked into a Napa Auto Parts store in St. Mary's GA and asked if they had a boot similar to the sample I handed them. They asked what it was from, and I replied the Main Lube Oil system of a 627 class SSBN. The standard reply was, "Did you call earlier?"  (A custom modification on a plunger suited quite well, and the MPA made me promise not to tell the CO or ENG where we got it!)
« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2004, 01:59 by Roll Tide »
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WXMel

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #26 on: Jan 23, 2005, 02:16 »
So Boomers are generally more conducive to living a more normal family life while in the Navy, correct?

Where are people on Boomers typically stationed?  Isn't it either Georgia or Washington?  Is it pretty easy for spouses to find work in those areas?  Also, when preffing what kind of sub/ship one wants to be on, how often do the "needs of the Navy" coincide with that person's top choice?

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #27 on: Jan 24, 2005, 08:14 »
So Boomers are generally more conducive to living a more normal family life while in the Navy, correct?

Where are people on Boomers typically stationed?  Isn't it either Georgia or Washington?  Is it pretty easy for spouses to find work in those areas?  Also, when preffing what kind of sub/ship one wants to be on, how often do the "needs of the Navy" coincide with that person's top choice?

More conducive, not normal!  ;)

St. Mary's, GA and Bremerton, WA are the Trident bases. Anything else for a Trident would be overhaul shipyard.
St. Mary's is very rural southeast GA coast, but within commuting distance of northern Jacksonville, FL. With 4 sons, I never asked my wife if she wanted to work outside the home........

First assignment is almost a roulette wheel random chance of first choice with the detailer. Subsequent sea tours are much more negotiable.
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RCLCPO

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Re: SSBN vs. SSN
« Reply #28 on: Jan 24, 2005, 12:32 »
Boomers in Washington are actually in Bangor (Navy Base Kitsap), a short drive north of Bremerton (Puget Sound Naval Shipyard).  For orders to a boomer, or anywhere else desirable, it goes like this:  the top performers get first pick.  It's one incentive to always do your best.

For example, if 100 people in a class want to go to a boomer, but there are only 80 positions available, who gets them?  Folks are sorted by gpa.  If all the boomer spots are full before they get to your gpa, guess what?  Welcome to the fast-boat fleet.  See my other posting here for my opinions on each.  Having been on 3 fast boats and 1 boomer, I can at least discuss both with some authority. 

 


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