Nuke Retention

[Operator]

Greetings,

I am looking for hard data sources and supporting/countering thoughts regarding an opinion of mine that serves to support a project I am working on for my power plant.

My opinion is that we (my power plant) will continue to have an increasingly difficult time relying on exiting navy nukes as a steady applicant stream to replenish our operator ranks do to:

1. Navy is shrinking i.e less boats
2. Nuclear retention bonuses are up i.e more re-enlistments
3. Exiting Navy nukes will gravitate to the south and the new construction
4. Economy overall is weak i.e less Navy technicians getting out

I have a few links, but would like to get a feel for those in the Navy.

Sincerely,

Operator

[MacGyver]

Greetings,

I am looking for hard data sources and supporting/countering thoughts regarding an opinion of mine that serves to support a project I am working on for my power plant.

My opinion is that we (my power plant) will continue to have an increasingly difficult time relying on exiting navy nukes as a steady applicant stream to replenish our operator ranks do to:

1. Navy is shrinking i.e less boats
2. Nuclear retention bonuses are up i.e more re-enlistments
3. Exiting Navy nukes will gravitate to the south and the new construction
4. Economy overall is weak i.e less Navy technicians getting out

I have a few links, but would like to get a feel for those in the Navy.

Sincerely,

Operator

You should know you will have to twist the data to support your theory.

The Big E is out now.  Lots of nav nukes available.

Nav nukes aren't a power plants best investment.  Locals with no nav expeience are a better choice.  And I don't see a shortage of locals.

Disclaimer: I am a previous nav nuke subs.

Your call Mac.

[Operator]

Funny you should say that. I am a former Nuke Sub ELT and I also think local non-Navy talent is a better investment and I have the data to support that as a current instructor teaching NLOs!

You have touched on the foundation of my project, for my company to fully invest in identifying and developing our local talent through mentoring, outreach, etc.

[MacGyver]

Funny you should say that. I am a former Nuke Sub ELT and I also think local non-Navy talent is a better investment and I have the data to support that as a current instructor teaching NLOs!

You have touched on the foundation of my project, for my company to fully invest in identifying and developing our local talent through mentoring, outreach, etc.

Community College / Other U'nies

Just one suggestion is to test all future applicants on all entry tests before admission into any college sponsored programs (e.g. EEI POSS/MASS).

My experience with current nav nukes is terrible in terms of a product.  

Just sayin,

Mac

[Operator]

Community College / Other U'nies

Just one suggestion is to test all future applicants on all entry tests before admission into any college sponsored programs (e.g. EEI POSS/MASS).

My experience with current nav nukes is terrible in terms of a product.  

Just sayin,

Mac

I had not thought of administering the EEI tests early, but that would be a great data-point to have going in early. My company also uses a Basic Math and Science Test (BMST) as a stop-gate. Great idea, thanks!

For a company to administer early as a tool for candidates before starting vo-tech  is a real investment cost that I must factor in and defend.

However, in speaking with my HR reps, they are expending lots of man-hours testing job candidates just to lose so many who cannot pass the POSS/BMST

I also am not impressed with our current crop of Nav Nukes as a group. A couple of good ones.

[Higgs]

 We're all experiencing the results of a pipeline that now accepts mediocrity as the standard.

 As a result, our NLO  ranks ( at my plant  that is) are filled with highly educated people, with no navy experience.

 Seems a few utilities have shifted their recruiting focus.

 Justin

[Operator]

We had a lot of unforeseen outages that delayed qualifying NLOs, but that affected everyone equally. That being said, the first NLO qualified was a guy off the streets with no degree, no Navy, just aptitude and attitude.

Operator

[Neutron_Herder]

We seem to be doing the same with our NLOs...  Lots of college educated locals.

The instant ranks are still mainly ex Navy, but as I've said before I think that's going to dry up as these NLOs move up into the licensed ranks in the next few years.

[kc351]

Not sure if i'm in any place to give my two cents, but i'm finding this post pretty disturbing.
I'm a to-be ex navy nuke. from the original post... I won't deny that the bonus, threat of unemployment in said economy, and the exceptional life of a senior watchstander, are all tempting reasons to stay in and reenlist. I opted not to because I thought that I'd be able to land a job doing what I currently do where i want to live, never to be deployed again, no longer gov't property, and hopefully be paid more than a similarly ranked E5 whose job it is to cook rice in the galley. "you'll be able to find a job for sure","there are tons of companies looking to hire navy nukes" they said, but looking around nukeworker as well as in this thread, I'm starting to really worry that it's actually quite the contrary.
I do have several gripes about current nukes. senior seconds suck. they "delegate" work too much, feel like they're too good for certain job-related tasks, become too friendly with their chiefs and divos and are therefore damn near untouchable, they get away with mediocrity because they understand that you don't get fired in the navy. that said, there are nukes (not to toot my own horn) like me, who resent the navy and said fellow sailors, are 'delegated' responsibility, do the work, gain the experience, have better hard-work ethics, and can't stand to be in this nuclear navy any longer.
True the Enterprise is decommed, however from what i understand there are still many plans ahead for its nukes, they'll be very busy for at least the next three years. There isn't talk of transferring its nukes around to other ships. then again i wouldn't imagine that there are going to be many billets available to come back to the big E for salty sea returnees.

interested to see how your project and data collection pans out. I'll be getting out within the year and I am currently trying to find an NLO/AO job, hopefully this opinion of yours of ex navy nukes isn't as wide spread among all plants, for my sake.

[HydroDave63]

Not sure if i'm in any place to give my two cents, but i'm finding this post pretty disturbing.
I'm a to-be ex navy nuke. from the original post... I won't deny that the bonus, threat of unemployment in said economy, and the exceptional life of a senior watchstander, are all tempting reasons to stay in and reenlist. I opted not to because I thought that I'd be able to land a job doing what I currently do where i want to live, never to be deployed again, no longer gov't property, and hopefully be paid more than a similarly ranked E5 whose job it is to cook rice in the galley. "you'll be able to find a job for sure","there are tons of companies looking to hire navy nukes" they said, but looking around nukeworker as well as in this thread, I'm starting to really worry that it's actually quite the contrary.
I do have several gripes about current nukes. senior seconds suck. they "delegate" work too much, feel like they're too good for certain job-related tasks, become too friendly with their chiefs and divos and are therefore damn near untouchable, they get away with mediocrity because they understand that you don't get fired in the navy. that said, there are nukes (not to toot my own horn) like me, who resent the navy and said fellow sailors, are 'delegated' responsibility, do the work, gain the experience, have better hard-work ethics, and can't stand to be in this nuclear navy any longer.
True the Enterprise is decommed, however from what i understand there are still many plans ahead for its nukes, they'll be very busy for at least the next three years. There isn't talk of transferring its nukes around to other ships. then again i wouldn't imagine that there are going to be many billets available to come back to the big E for salty sea returnees.

interested to see how your project and data collection pans out. I'll be getting out within the year and I am currently trying to find an NLO/AO job, hopefully this opinion of yours of ex navy nukes isn't as wide spread among all plants, for my sake.

So you "resent the Navy" that sent you through 2+ years of education in a pipeline where CNOs 'Laurel and Hardy' (that's a Nukeworker lookup!) wouldn't allow NAVSEA08 to attrit the driftwood out early so make them the Fleet's problem, most nukes now come out with a bachelor's degree or close to done due to TA and GI Bill several times larger than what was earned by the former sailors you are now complaining to, internet access 24/7 except for GQ for surface squids...and complain about the mediocrity of senior 2nds that think they are too good, overpaid mess cooks that you think you are better than (no sympathy from Cold War nuke blueshirts here that had to mess crank) .... quite frankly, no sympathy from the experienced nukes here, and to the non-nukes that DO work at these power plants, your complaints sound whiny and yer showin' yer @$$ !!!!  If anything, you are reinforcing the negative impression others have for current ex-nukes. QQ

Freshen up, get yer stuff in one sock, inventory what it is that you personally bring to the table, be conversant about your skills and experience but do NOT complain about your previous employer(s). Describe the situations as how you handled them or what you learned.

[Operator]

Not sure if i'm in any place to give my two cents, but i'm finding this post pretty disturbing.
I'm a to-be ex navy nuke. from the original post... I won't deny that the bonus, threat of unemployment in said economy, and the exceptional life of a senior watchstander, are all tempting reasons to stay in and reenlist. I opted not to because I thought that I'd be able to land a job doing what I currently do where i want to live, never to be deployed again, no longer gov't property, and hopefully be paid more than a similarly ranked E5 whose job it is to cook rice in the galley. "you'll be able to find a job for sure","there are tons of companies looking to hire navy nukes" they said, but looking around nukeworker as well as in this thread, I'm starting to really worry that it's actually quite the contrary.
I do have several gripes about current nukes. senior seconds suck. they "delegate" work too much, feel like they're too good for certain job-related tasks, become too friendly with their chiefs and divos and are therefore damn near untouchable, they get away with mediocrity because they understand that you don't get fired in the navy. that said, there are nukes (not to toot my own horn) like me, who resent the navy and said fellow sailors, are 'delegated' responsibility, do the work, gain the experience, have better hard-work ethics, and can't stand to be in this nuclear navy any longer.
True the Enterprise is decommed, however from what i understand there are still many plans ahead for its nukes, they'll be very busy for at least the next three years. There isn't talk of transferring its nukes around to other ships. then again i wouldn't imagine that there are going to be many billets available to come back to the big E for salty sea returnees.

interested to see how your project and data collection pans out. I'll be getting out within the year and I am currently trying to find an NLO/AO job, hopefully this opinion of yours of ex navy nukes isn't as wide spread among all plants, for my sake.

I don't have anything against Navy-Nukes. I am a Navy Nuke. There just seems to be a growing attitude around the commercial world that Navy Nukes are not what they used to be.

If you x-reference that with all kinds of talk about lowering standards in the fleet, you start to put 1 and 1 together to form an opinion.

I am focusing efforts on hiring local because it cost less money to hire local and there is less attrition from local hires than those you have to relocate. Finding locals with kids, family, ties to the community is a plus to long term staffing strategies.

That being said, I would always push to hire the more qualified candidate regardless of background. However, if it came down to 2 candidates equally matched and 1 was a local and 1 was from far way, then I would be more inclined to push for the local.

Veterans, regardless, get points in the hiring process for being vets.

Overall though, my project isn't about choosing locals over Navy, it is about developing our local talent to make them a long term viable hiring stream.

[kc351]

I guess I have a lot to learn about being part of a forum. I shouldn't have to apologize everytime I make a post. I am sorry for striking any nerves or offending you hydrodave, and operator, as well as any future readers. I guess I just got to carried away in my rant and couldn't properly express my opinion. By no means do I think I ever had it hard in today's navy, I don't hate the navy at all, it was an awesome experience I had a lot of fun on my deployments. Not to mention the opportunities and doors opened to me. I only disliked those things I brought up about having to work with others who push off work and still collect a paycheck. I'd hope than in the civilian sector there are hard workers, because poor performance translates to being fired. And for the record, nothing against cs's I only meant to address that in the navy an e5 is an e5, and all e5's get paid exactly the same, with the exception of bonuses (believe me I'm not even trying to argue that I didn't get enough, dave ), regardless of their job, hours, duty section break down, etc.
And as I thought I didn't really have a place to say anything on this thread. The purpose to your post was totally lost on me, and instead I made it a place for my rant and a scolding from hydrodave. I'm learning and hope to be a better contribution to this forum as this forum has been very helpful to me.

[Marlin]

I guess I have a lot to learn about being part of a forum. I shouldn't have to apologize everytime I make a post. I am sorry for striking any nerves or offending you hydrodave, and operator, as well as any future readers. I guess I just got to carried away in my rant and couldn't properly express my opinion. By no means do I think I ever had it hard in today's navy, I don't hate the navy at all, it was an awesome experience I had a lot of fun on my deployments. Not to mention the opportunities and doors opened to me. I only disliked those things I brought up about having to work with others who push off work and still collect a paycheck. I'd hope than in the civilian sector there are hard workers, because poor performance translates to being fired. And for the record, nothing against cs's I only meant to address that in the navy an e5 is an e5, and all e5's get paid exactly the same, with the exception of bonuses (believe me I'm not even trying to argue that I didn't get enough, dave ), regardless of their job, hours, duty section break down, etc.
And as I thought I didn't really have a place to say anything on this thread. The purpose to your post was totally lost on me, and instead I made it a place for my rant and a scolding from hydrodave. I'm learning and hope to be a better contribution to this forum as this forum has been very helpful to me.

Don't take it too personally. From another thread...

    It is best on any forum to lurk and get the feel of the site prior to joining in and on Nukeworker there is a wealth of information if you search first and then ask specific questions. The posters above have been posting and helping newcomers for 9 years or more and have heard the same questions over and over again, you will find them much more helpful if you at least try to do some of your own work.
   OK some of them just like bludgeoning the newbies but if you can endure the gauntlet  it will be worthwhile.

   You are now officially now go do your lookups.

[Operator]

I guess I have a lot to learn about being part of a forum. I shouldn't have to apologize everytime I make a post. I am sorry for striking any nerves or offending you hydrodave, and operator, as well as any future readers. I guess I just got to carried away in my rant and couldn't properly express my opinion. By no means do I think I ever had it hard in today's navy, I don't hate the navy at all, it was an awesome experience I had a lot of fun on my deployments. Not to mention the opportunities and doors opened to me. I only disliked those things I brought up about having to work with others who push off work and still collect a paycheck. I'd hope than in the civilian sector there are hard workers, because poor performance translates to being fired. And for the record, nothing against cs's I only meant to address that in the navy an e5 is an e5, and all e5's get paid exactly the same, with the exception of bonuses (believe me I'm not even trying to argue that I didn't get enough, dave ), regardless of their job, hours, duty section break down, etc.
And as I thought I didn't really have a place to say anything on this thread. The purpose to your post was totally lost on me, and instead I made it a place for my rant and a scolding from hydrodave. I'm learning and hope to be a better contribution to this forum as this forum has been very helpful to me.

Do I seem to be offended? I am not, but thanks anyway.

The point of my original post to pulse the current nukes who are more inclined to stay in the Navy than get out because of the economy, large retention bonuses, etc. However, with the Prise going away, there may be more getting out do to draw down. Just curious.

Operator

[LastELO]

I'm on the Big E, and I can tell you that our Nukes aren't going anywhere for a couple of years.  By then, the Ford will need more nukes, so I wouldn't expect to see much of a drawdown.

[tucker0104]

You might make the same as the other E5 now but think about when both of you get out what the pay difference will be.

[spekkio]

Greetings,

I am looking for hard data sources and supporting/countering thoughts regarding an opinion of mine that serves to support a project I am working on for my power plant.

My opinion is that we (my power plant) will continue to have an increasingly difficult time relying on exiting navy nukes as a steady applicant stream to replenish our operator ranks do to:

1. Navy is shrinking i.e less boats
2. Nuclear retention bonuses are up i.e more re-enlistments
3. Exiting Navy nukes will gravitate to the south and the new construction
4. Economy overall is weak i.e less Navy technicians getting out

I have a few links, but would like to get a feel for those in the Navy.

Sincerely,

Operator

Point 1 is false. The Navy is going to maintain the same amount of CVNs, SSNs, and SSBNs for the foreseeable future, so the amount of nukes will be relatively constant.

The rest is speculation. As to point 4, a lot more enlisted nukes started to come in with college degrees. My personal opinion is that most will jump ship once they got out of the Navy what they wanted -- a way to claim 5 years of professional experience in a technical job on a resume. But again, that's merely speculation.

If you search around the milpers websites you can find briefs on retention and the like.

You might make the same as the other E5 now but think about when both of you get out what the pay difference will be.

Yea, no. That mythical E-5 CS everyone is hating on for getting paid to do his (shitty) job can get out, use the same GI bill benefits as a nuke, earn a degree in something marketable, do some internships to make connections while in college, and make the same money than you after graduating. This is especially true if you both decide to pursue careers outside of nuclear power post-Navy. If the guy sitting across the interview table is not familiar with the inner-workings of the Navy (and chances are he isn't), then it doesn't really matter what you did. A military servicemember is a military servicemember to him.

[retired nuke]

Yea, no. That mythical E-5 CS everyone is hating on for getting paid to do his (shitty) job can get out, use the same GI bill benefits as a nuke, earn a degree in something marketable, do some internships to make connections while in college, and make the same money than you after graduating. This is especially true if you both decide to pursue careers outside of nuclear power post-Navy. If the guy sitting across the interview table is not familiar with the inner-workings of the Navy (and chances are he isn't), then it doesn't really matter what you did. A military servicemember is a military servicemember to him.

That would be me - 'cept I only did 4 yrs, made MS4, got out, went to Rad High in Ocala on the GI Bill, and have had a nice career in RP. I'm house, not a tech, not on rotating shift, not working OT outside of 1 outage every 18 months, and work is not my life.

I'm doing as well as many hot shot ELT types, without the 6 yr nuke school whining. Never interested in OPS. Ever.