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Author Topic: craft apprenticeship should have more weight than 2yr degree @ TVA  (Read 8084 times)

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Offline Ol_HammerFist

I don't understand how applicants who have completed a formal craft apprenticeship can and most of the time WILL be beaten out by an applicant with no prior experience but has a non-field related associates degree in ping pong or what have you from a community college. For example, a good position for a journeyman craftsman (electrician/pipefitter/boilermaker) would be in operations. A nuclear plant is made up of mostly electrical circuits and water/steam pipes. Who better to operate and maintain these systems than the people who have been troubleshooting, understanding and installing these systems their whole career and know how they function. You can't tell me an electrician or pipefitter with at least a 5 year apprenticeship wouldn't have a better understanding and application of the operations training they're receiving than a person with a 2 year degree in psychology that had probably never been in a powerhouse . Not saying the only people that should get these jobs are journeyman craftsmen but I think the hiring percentage of applicants who have completed a craft apprenticeship should be A LOT higher.....maybe 50/50 . TVA needs more people with common sense and mechanical ability.

   Just like with engineers, before they could graduate they should have to do a certain amount of install and application of whatever field they are engineering. Engineers only know one side of the spectrum. How are they going to design and tell someone how to install when they couldn't do it themselves. They might know how to complete the task in theory but cannot actually hands on apply the theory in a real world scenario. This is why there are so many complications with plant system installations. The craft has to explain to the engineers why their design WILL NOT WORK......something that they should already know .......but they don't.  
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2013, 03:50 by Rennhack »

Offline ddickey

Give us a specific example.

MacGyver

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I don't understand how applicants who have completed a formal craft apprenticeship can and most of the time WILL be beaten out by an applicant with no prior experience but has a non-field related associates degree in ping pong or what have you from a community college. For example, a good position for a journeyman craftsman (electrician/pipefitter/boilermaker) would be in operations. A nuclear plant is made up of mostly electrical circuits and water/steam pipes. Who better to operate and maintain these systems than the people who have been troubleshooting, understanding and installing these systems their whole career and know how they function. You can't tell me an electrician or pipefitter with at least a 5 year apprenticeship wouldn't have a better understanding and application of the operations training they're receiving than a person with a 2 year degree in psychology that had probably never been in a powerhouse . Not saying the only people that should get these jobs are journeyman craftsmen but I think the hiring percentage of applicants who have completed a craft apprenticeship should be A LOT higher.....maybe 50/50 . TVA needs more people with common sense and mechanical ability.

   Just like with engineers, before they could graduate they should have to do a certain amount of install and application of whatever field they are engineering. Engineers only know one side of the spectrum. How are they going to design and tell someone how to install when they couldn't do it themselves. They might know how to complete the task in theory but cannot actually hands on apply the theory in a real world scenario. This is why there are so many complications with plant system installations. The craft has to explain to the engineers why their design WILL NOT WORK......something that they should already know .......but they don't.  

I agree craft folks make good operators.

But management doesn't agree with you.  Why?  Well as soon as a craft position opens up you're gone.  Dang, I guess we have to rehire for ops and more inexperienced folks in ops, again.

An A.S. in ping pong (sic) will probably stay in ops.  And thusly not cause a larger training burden / turnover (aka more inexperienced folks).

It's all about the dollars.  We can get anyone for maint and have them trained for duty in weeks compared to years for ops.

Jus' Sayin' if it quacks like a duck its probably a duck.

Offline Old HP

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Hey a degree in Ping Pong is not that easy to acquire.......  Just like acquiring practical and useful experience is not easy.

Offline Ol_HammerFist

Specific example: I have a good friend that has been a ibew local 175 substation technician for 8 years. He applied for an electrician apprentice position, took the test and passed and did not get an interview. I know a couple of guys that actually got the job that have had no prior experience in ANY electrical field however both had an associates degree in something or other that was non related. When it comes to multiskilled craft positions and tech positions, TVA has a lot of sub par employees that are not bad people, they just lack skill and knowledge. The TVA training programs I've heard are a joke and don't really teach you much, you just kinda pick it up as you go or hide behind the people that have been there a while. God forbid some kind of emergency did happen because I'd say A LOT of workers lack of knowledge would be exposed. Now I'm not saying all employees because obviously there have to be some pretty sharp people that actually do have the knowledge to run the show. But there are a bunch of them that got hired on simply because they knew someone and not because they were the best candidate for that job. However, eventually these people will learn it after they are there for several years because most of the tasks are repetitive.

Offline ddickey

Specific example: I have a good friend that has been a ibew local 175 substation technician for 8 years. He applied for an electrician apprentice position, took the test and passed and did not get an interview. I know a couple of guys that actually got the job that have had no prior experience in ANY electrical field however both had an associates degree in something or other that was non related. When it comes to multiskilled craft positions and tech positions, TVA has a lot of sub par employees that are not bad people, they just lack skill and knowledge. The TVA training programs I've heard are a joke and don't really teach you much, you just kinda pick it up as you go or hide behind the people that have been there a while. God forbid some kind of emergency did happen because I'd say A LOT of workers lack of knowledge would be exposed. Now I'm not saying all employees because obviously there have to be some pretty sharp people that actually do have the knowledge to run the show. But there are a bunch of them that got hired on simply because they knew someone and not because they were the best candidate for that job. However, eventually these people will learn it after they are there for several years because most of the tasks are repetitive.
He was an employee of TVA? Seems like the local should ask some questions.
« Last Edit: Apr 18, 2013, 09:51 by ddickey »

Fermi2

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Specific example: I have a good friend that has been a ibew local 175 substation technician for 8 years. He applied for an electrician apprentice position, took the test and passed and did not get an interview. I know a couple of guys that actually got the job that have had no prior experience in ANY electrical field however both had an associates degree in something or other that was non related. When it comes to multiskilled craft positions and tech positions, TVA has a lot of sub par employees that are not bad people, they just lack skill and knowledge. The TVA training programs I've heard are a joke and don't really teach you much, you just kinda pick it up as you go or hide behind the people that have been there a while. God forbid some kind of emergency did happen because I'd say A LOT of workers lack of knowledge would be exposed. Now I'm not saying all employees because obviously there have to be some pretty sharp people that actually do have the knowledge to run the show. But there are a bunch of them that got hired on simply because they knew someone and not because they were the best candidate for that job. However, eventually these people will learn it after they are there for several years because most of the tasks are repetitive.

BS. It's been my experience TVA employees are well trained and do a good job. Given Accident Drills are run quarterly and the employees tend to perform well during those drills I find your statements here to be very uninformed. I'll tell you one thing, based on my experience if TVA even thinks you "know" someone who might have influence on your being hired it tends to place the candidate at a disadvantage. The days of who you know are well in the past.

Offline Marlin

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And PS

The "other" just killed two employees with a stator.
BS! You'obviously never worked Entergy or been on the road for one particular contract company! To wit, nepotism is alive and well! More specifically, a company with approximately 50 employees at one site that has approximately 12 employees with the same last name and are of the same non-caucasian race and trust me when I say, it' not a common last name like Smith!

And as for TVA, I've been to two plants and will likely not return to either. One allowed an employee to be killed by a SAM and had 5 ambulance calls during one outage! The other has perhaps the most mis-managed RP department I've ever known.

Just one man's opinion...er, experience!

I don't think you and BZ are on the same page with this discussion. BZ is talking about TVA employees and you seem to be talking about contractors. The discussion started with experienced craft versus entry level personnel with only AA degrees staffing plant positions for TVA.

Just say'n  [coffee]
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2013, 10:27 by Marlin »

 


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