Almost there!

[abee_13]

Hey I just took the NAPT this week and passed 60/80, and now I have to wait for a waiver since my parents weren't born in this country but they are naturalized citizens, anyone know how long it takes to get a reply ?

I signed for SECF about two weeks ago so I have a good job either way right?

I just wanna ask a few question about nuke, since I never had anyone really explain to me in detail about their jobs, I've heard glorified plumbers and electricians, but that doesn't really help.

[DadofMM-ELT]

N.B. - This reply is written from a father's POV:

>anyone know how long it takes to get a reply ?
Your recruiter will have the most current information I'd think. I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned in the DEP thread in the past.

>explain to me in detail about their jobs
At the simplest level, each rate is responsible for different aspects of power plant operation.  In any case, I recall that my son received a brochure that describes the basics of the various nuke jobs - I'd ask your recruiter if they still have those and if you're not already in contact, there should also be a dedicated "nuke recruiter" you can talk to. This site has a useful search function that can be used to find a tremendous amount of information on day to day duties in so far as they are not classified. Google is your friend, of course.

Finally - you're not really "almost there". Once you get your contract you'll likely have a long period in DEP (up to a year) followed by 2 months of basic, a minimum of 15 months of training (A School, Power School, Prototype, then possibly ELT or Welder school), but realistically it will be closer to DEP + 2 years before you "see the sea". If you're very good (and a little lucky), like my son you'll train as an MM and then be selected for ELT  .

Oh, and since you're setting out to become (perhaps) a very highly trained professional, you might consider adopting a consistent standard English writing style.

Good luck & thank you for your future service.

[NukEMCarp1252]

Dont know about the first question.  I had friends in your same situation and it could take a while.  Don't be surprised that when you get to NNPTC, that you find yourself on "Hold" before power school for a couple of months.  I imagine country of origin might have an effect on that as well. 

SECF?  What is that exactly?

As far as Nukes go, you will recieve a crash course in various subjects through out a two year period.  About enough schooling to get a bachelors degree but you won't get all of the credits.  I would expect about twelve to fifteen hour days while in school.  You will be sent to either a submarine or an air craft crarrier, where you will be one of the hardest workers out of the entire ship.  Most time will be spent standing watch and performing maintenance at crazy hours while the rest of the topsiders or coners (non-nukes) are sleeping.  You will probably be bitter, like most nukes.  When you get out you will find many oppertunities to make six figures.  It's a good oppertunity but I am not going to tell you that it's fun or easy... but I guess it was worth it.

[spekkio]

OP, these forums have a breadth of information. You need to do some searching and required reading. It is pretty silly that you are about to sign a lengthy commitment to a job you know nothing about.

nukeEM, you don't get anywhere near the coursework to get a bachelor's. You do applied entry-level (100/200 level) coursework in a variety of subjects that in it's total maybe adds to one year's worth of university knowledge, but it's from a hodge-podge of different areas instead of a typical freshman pre-technical major sequence. The challenging part is that it's done in 6 months. The knowledge from nuclear power school is very narrow in focus and applied, whereas college will focus more on theory foundation. For example, you do basic electric particle theory but you don't touch Gauss's Law. You do basic rotational electro-magnetism but you do problems which don't involve the use of calculus. You don't touch wave theory. You do fluid flow but don't touch rotational mechanics.

Getting checkout in prototype...asked to explain how the SSMG works...start deriving the equations for motor/generator action to explain how it works...qualified EM gets confused. "You silly officers and your equations" he says. Because we actually went to college and took courses in this stuff. All he wanted was the conclusion from all that because he didn't actually understand the technical basis of why it works. Nor did he ever have to. He never took calculus. Has no idea why the right-hand-rule works. He just memorized the punch line that the Navy fed him. This is not university level knowledge unless you're taking electrical engineering for the english major.

The majority of schools will not honor most, if any, nuke school credits because of this, and if they did you'd most likely do poorly in the higher level course having never taken a true calculus-based physics/ME/EE course. Unless you're the rare guy who just picks that stuff up, but then why are you in the Navy instead of at MIT?

[HeavyD]

I would also caution saying you will find many six figure jobs available when you get out.

Given the amount of experience that serving 6 years gives you, virtually no one is going to offer 6 figures to start off. 

Is the potential out there to work your way into a six figure position?  Absolutely.

Is that what the vast majority (>95%) of the 6 and out nukes are going to make?  No.  Flat out NO.

What the Navy CAN give you is a good foundation on which to build your knowledge of nuclear power operations. 

The Navy CAN also offer you the opportunity to instill some discipline in your life (God knows most of us needed some of that at 18 years old) as well as help you find direction in your life.

The end result will be largely dependent on what YOU want to get out of the Navy.  What are YOUR goals?  None of us can answer this for you.

As far as the different rates, mechanics (MM) work on pumps, valves, piping systems, hydraulics, etc.  Electricians (EM) should be self explanatory, but they maintain the electrical components and distribution system.  Electronic Technicians (ET) deal primarily with the reactor control and command and monitoring systems in the plant.

However, everyone learns the basics of every system in the plant, regardless of their rate.

Best of luck and thank you for volunteering.   

[Gamecock]

  When you get out you will find many oppertunities to make six figures.  It's a good oppertunity but I am not going to tell you that it's fun or easy... but I guess it was worth it.

BS......

I am retiring soon with 23 years of naval nuclear experience and several graduate degrees (2 from MIT).  While I have had a handful of 6 figure base salary offers to date, most have been less then that. 

You aren't getting a six figure base salary as a 6-and-out guy.

Cheers,
GC

[crewjobs_too]

Does not seem worth it to me to stay in for more than 6 years then.  Most colleges do not honor Navy nuclear training credits?  OK then take the degree from one that does like Thomas Edison or Old Dominion.  Then get a masters degree on the GI Bill.

By the way there are plenty of enlisted nukes who have already taken calculus and calculus-based physics in college before joining the Navy.  Not everyone enlists at age 18 fresh out of high school.  My son had both.  He thought Power School and Prototype were easy.  The hard part about protype was not being used to revolving shift work (yet).

[spekkio]

Does not seem worth it to me to stay in for more than 6 years then.  Most colleges do not honor Navy nuclear training credits?  OK then take the degree from one that does like Thomas Edison or Old Dominion.  Then get a masters degree on the GI Bill.

Reputable graduate schools are not going to admit you into a competitive program with an Engineering Management degree at ODU when you submit an undergrad transcript that has 50-60 credits that say "Navy service school" or something to that effect. Technical programs won't recognize it as a legitimate ABET accredited engineering degree and non-technical programs won't recognize it as a legitimate business/finance degree. It is a degree to say you have a degree. If you are looking at a master's for a check-in-the-box to have a master's, then this is an okay plan (keep in mind the 9/11 GI bill pays up to $18k and change/year in tuition, which will not cover the cost of graduate school tuition at many universities). But most people use a graduate investment to further their careers and make connections; the reputation of the university for the program you are attending matters a lot in this regard.

I have seen JOs transition out of the Navy apply to competitive graduate schools. They generally don't care about nuke school and there is a high probability your application is being reviewed by someone who never worked outside academia and has a biased view of the military based on what he has read in books and the local culture. They care about undergrad performance paired with reputation of the institution, and scores from standardized tests first. You have to pass that numerical filter before they'll listen to you tell them how hard you busted ass for 6 years in the Navy.

College credit via NNPS is a carrot-on-the-stick recruiters (who usually aren't nukes) use to get people to become enlisted nukes.

By the way there are plenty of enlisted nukes who have already taken calculus and calculus-based physics in college before joining the Navy.

Doesn't change the fact that the enlisted program is geared toward an 18-year-old high school graduate who has not taken anything past trigonometry. The way they teach the subjects reflects that, as does the way academia looks at enlisted NNPS.

You aren't getting a six figure base salary as a 6-and-out guy.

In the interest in full disclosure, my uncle managed to land one after he got out AND went to college. I don't know if that was his day 1 starting salary (probably not), but he broke the 6 figure plane several years ago. It does require travelling  the mid 90's and entered the job market in early '00s As has been beaten to death, times a' changin', so maybe his experience entering CIVLANT 13 years ago isn't exactly relevant today.

So a more accurate way of putting it is you generally aren't getting a 6-figure starting salary as a 6-and out guy with only a high school diploma. Cue someone telling me there's a rock quarry in Montana looking for an experienced QAI hiring starting at $103,999/year.

[hamsamich]

My buddy had the online nuclear degree from excelsior using Navy credits.  He used it to get into University of Delaware and get an MBA 10 years ago.

[drayer54]

When you get out you will find many oppertunities to make six figures.  

BS......

You aren't getting a six figure base salary as a 6-and-out guy.

I'm going to kick some dirt on the BS flag. He didn't say starting base salary with 6 figures, he (kind of) said opportunities to make six figures. Lots of jobs I found and specifically in the ones that I applied it is entirely possible to hit that mark provided an outage and/or a lot of OT. I know people who didn't take the commercial plant path who have (claimed to) done it too.

[crewjobs_too]

The TESC degree is ABET acredited now though.  I am not sure how one would  distinguish between "ABET acredited" and "legitimate ABET accredited" either all a matter of opinion I suppose, but there seem to be plenty of people who get a job with it, or parlay it into a seat in grad school. 

I agree most college admissions staff don't know much about the military, I bet they don't get too impressed by a JO either when they see one, nor do they look down their nose at enlisted, they just see "veteran" on the application.   If I see an enlisted kid I look at his enlisted record.  I'd be more inclined to ask a JO why he didn't stay in and try to make admiral.

[Gamecock]

I'd be more inclined to ask a JO why he didn't stay in and try to make admiral.

Really?!?     

[HydroDave63]

  I'd be more inclined to ask a JO why he didn't stay in and try to make admiral.

Uh....we have more admirals than ships. It is pretty much a lottery ticket chance of making Flag officer in any service. Would you ask your Mayor why he or she doesn't stay in politics long enough to make Senator?

[cedugger]

The TESC degree is ABET acredited now though.  I am not sure how one would  distinguish between "ABET acredited" and "legitimate ABET accredited"...

I don't think it's a matter of legitimate vs. the other. I browsed through about a dozen graduate admissions requirements last night looking at this very thing (mostly for M.S. in Nuclear Eng) and noticed some similarities. It's not that one cannot be admitted to Purdue or GA Tech engineering graduate programs...it's a matter of additional work that may be required in order to obtain the degree. If a prospective student has a degree such as the TESC Nuke Energy Eng Tech bachelor degree (the updated ABET one), they may be required to take additional calculus (or differential equations) and calc-based physics as part of the program before moving on to higher-level courses. Students can plan for some of this and take additional calculus through TESC (or a local school) as electives on the BSAST degree. Unless I've missed something, the needed calc-based physics cannot be obtained through TESC.

[spekkio]

If I see an enlisted kid I look at his enlisted record.  I'd be more inclined to ask a JO why he didn't stay in and try to make admiral.

I'm a fairly diggitty sub officer but my career aspirations end with command at sea, if I am lucky enough to get that far.

Unless something drastically changes, sitting at a desk and coming up with a plans (more accuratey; making my staff come up with plans for me to brief SECNAV/SECDEF/whatever politician) to fight the Navy's sexual assault epidemic, integrate women into submarines, or the next diversity initiative does not interest me. Neither does wading through DoD acquisition programs (even if the retirement and possibility of being rehired as a consultant for 2-3x flag pay is enticing), nor does flagellating COs about RC div maintenance in a 20-page exposition that compares operating a warship to playing football and likens submarining to the five pillars of faith because Admirals can.

There is an operational planning side of the flag positions -- how many subs to put in which theater, what data collection we want, how to fix the sub training program so we stop hitting things, etc., but those jobs are in the minority and not worth all the dues you have to pay to get there post-command (pentagon tour, flag staff tour). They don't just hand you a star for being a good CO at sea.

IMHO, All the fun stuff in the sub force -- the stuff that drew me to seeking a commission in it -- ends with command at sea.

If I were not diggity, then I would be 5 or 7-and-out, depending on if I wanted to roll the dice with shore duty, like the rest of them. In fact, one of the only reasons I went nuke was that the technical training provided a good backup had I not been diggity, whereas I didn't think the skills of an armor officer or conventional SWO were as easily applied to the outside world after everything was said and done. There is nothing wrong with doing only one contract. Their service is appreciated and I hope they go on to be successful in their new careers. The Navy needs 1 tour and out Sailors and JOs to function as designed.

The TESC degree is ABET acredited now though.  I am not sure how one would  distinguish between "ABET acredited" and "legitimate ABET accredited"...  

My bad, either I was thinking of the wrong degree or did not think it was considered to be ABET accredited.