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Offline High_Hopes

Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« on: May 28, 2013, 12:18 »
Hello everyone I currently have a 1 year technical certificate in power plant technology as well as in industrial engineering. I have 3 credits remaining and will receive my Associate degree in both power plant technology as well as in industrial engineering.  My question.. Are Associate Degrees from community colleges not seen as much? To me it seems like nothing compared to a bachelors degree. My dream would be to one day be an operator/engineer at a nuke plant. I am 22 years old and am just questioning the routes I've taken. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Offline retired nuke

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2013, 12:25 »
you will be competing for that position with people that have Navy nuclear experience (where 6 yrs is minimal), people that have BS in Engineering, and occasionally people with experience (many years) in other industries (fossil, transmission, etc).

Perhaps you should try non-nuke as a start to gain experience in a less competetive environment - fossil (Gas, Coal, co-gen, etc) chemical (various - manufacturing, processing) or other manufacturing.

Good luck
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Offline High_Hopes

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2013, 12:43 »
Thank you for the post.. I'm glad you at least posted. I will try non nuke plants.. Would joining the navy help me? I have a 5month old child.. Moving would be an option but would I be able to take my wife and child?

Offline Laundry Man

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2013, 12:54 »
The Navy would be pretty hard on your family but others have prevailed.  Six years of your life gone for long periods of time is something to consider if you were to go nuke.
LM

Chimera

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2013, 01:05 »
An Associates Degree may not seem like much at this point in time but, with some experience under your belt, it will start being more significant.  If you have the wherewithal to do, finish the Bachelors degree versus going into the Navy.  If circumstances seem to warrant enlisting in the Navy, finish you Bachelors while you're in.  Every little bit helps and nothing is inconsequential.

birch148

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2013, 06:19 »
I have an Associates Degree and and currently in an NLO class with 8 people, 2 of us Nuclear Power Associates degrees, 2 Navy and 4 Bach. degrees (various engineering).  My suggestion would be to apply, apply, apply.  Many house positions these days are diverse and do not just take Navy nukes anymore.  Those programs are out there for a reason and many companies like them and the people they produce. I am in a position that only took me 2 years to get to, in respect to the 6 years in the navy and 4 years at an expensive university.  I think you have a better chance than you think!  Good luck.   

Offline ddickey

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2013, 07:18 »
You'll need the NUCP certificate. At least this is what I'm hearing.

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2013, 08:35 »
I have an Associates Degree and and currently in an NLO class with 8 people, 2 of us Nuclear Power Associates degrees, 2 Navy and 4 Bach. degrees (various engineering).  My suggestion would be to apply, apply, apply.  Many house positions these days are diverse and do not just take Navy nukes anymore.  Those programs are out there for a reason and many companies like them and the people they produce. I am in a position that only took me 2 years to get to, in respect to the 6 years in the navy and 4 years at an expensive university.  I think you have a better chance than you think!  Good luck.  


Yes, keep applying for work.  

The associates is plenty of education to show the plants you are:
1. trainable.  
2. willing to finish something you start.

That's all they need to see...if they need people.  Right now you are fighting a situation in nuclear power where supply exceeds demand (due to a bazillion schools pumping out people with associates degrees), so it's tougher to get in, no matter what your quals are.  Maybe it's easier to get hired on the non-nuke side?  I would apply everywhere that met my minimum requirements (location, pay, etc).  That being said, don't just wallpaper the world with a generic resume - take time to craft each resume and cover letter to match the job and company you are applying with.

Further down the road, you will probably want the bachelors degree if you want to climb the ladder.  If you can't find a job, you could start on that now.  BUT, as Birch said, the associates is sufficient to get you in on the ground level.

Good luck.  :)





Full disclosure:  I graduated with an associates at another point when the industry was reaching 'flood stage'.  The school I attended closed their nuclear programs a year later, because they were having no success placing graduates.  I couldn't get hired for over six months, but just kept plugging away with the applications.  Eventually, I got my foot in the door and...nuclear power was VERY, VERY good to me!  :)

« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 09:18 by UncaBuffalo »
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Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2013, 07:06 »
Hello everyone I currently have a 1 year technical certificate in power plant technology as well as in industrial engineering. I have 3 credits remaining and will receive my Associate degree in both power plant technology as well as in industrial engineering.  My question.. Are Associate Degrees from community colleges not seen as much? To me it seems like nothing compared to a bachelors degree. My dream would be to one day be an operator/engineer at a nuke plant. I am 22 years old and am just questioning the routes I've taken. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
If the coursework is related to the job you're seeking, then education is never wasted. They have hired apprentice nuclear plant equipment operators off the street. Your education on a resume will help when you seek that job. Don't waste your time going in the Navy. You'll receive about a years useful training and the rest of your time is getting experience; however, not necessarily experience that you are really seeking.
I ask you a counter question. How will your writing skills? Most everything is done on computer nowadays, and good writing skills will help you land whatever job you are going for. Your next task is to be open to move anywhere in the country; do a nationwide search for beginning operator positions, if that's what you are going for. If you find your writing skills are not up to par, then raise them through either college or many Internet courses. Coming across as educated cannot hurt you in your job search. The inability to write cohesive sentences will hurt you now and in the future. There are too many young people today who graduate high school and are barely literate. Good luck in your search and keep us informed. We will help any way we can.

Offline RDTroja

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2013, 08:26 »
If the coursework is related to the job you're seeking, then education is never wasted. They have hired apprentice nuclear plant equipment operators off the street. Your education on a resume will help when you seek that job. Don't waste your time going in the Navy. You'll receive about a years useful training and the rest of your time is getting experience; however, not necessarily experience that you are really seeking.
I ask you a counter question. How will your writing skills? Most everything is done on computer nowadays, and good writing skills will help you land whatever job you are going for. Your next task is to be open to move anywhere in the country; do a nationwide search for beginning operator positions, if that's what you are going for. If you find your writing skills are not up to par, then raise them through either college or many Internet courses. Coming across as educated cannot hurt you in your job search. The inability to write cohesive sentences will hurt you now and in the future. There are too many young people today who graduate high school and are barely literate. Good luck in your search and keep us informed. We will help any way we can.


And how will yours?
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Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2013, 10:06 »
And how will yours?

See my point?  When an employer gets your written work, they focus only on the mistakes. They act by simply passing up the resumes'.  I worked at firm and watched a pile of resumes' get processed.  They literally went through the pile threw those out with simple misspellings.  The competition is that fierce.  If you ever had resumes' not responded to, that reason is a real possibility.

Offline RDTroja

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2013, 12:40 »
The point is not that you make mistakes... everyone does. The point is not caring enough to catch the mistakes and correct them which demonstrates a lack of attention to detail. That will kill your chances faster than most things in the nuclear power world. If you can't be bothered to do something right that is a direct benefit to yourself, how can you be trusted to care enough to do the right thing for someone else?
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

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"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

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Offline High_Hopes

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2013, 02:29 »
Thank you everyone for your comments. I was just wondering if I had wasted time seeing as a lot of people have bachelors. I will try at non nuke plants first and see where that leads me. Thank you for everyone who took a couple minutes to reply.

Offline retired nuke

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2013, 02:52 »
Thank you everyone for your comments. I was just wondering if I had wasted time seeing as a lot of people have bachelors. I will try at non nuke plants first and see where that leads me. Thank you for everyone who took a couple minutes to reply.

I attended a safety conference a few years ago with an ex-navy nuke that was working a co-gen in CT. She loved it and couldn't imagine going to commercial nuclear, at the co-gen work actually got done when it needed to, instead of after all the paperwork was signed off.
My plant has also lost a few operators and I&C techs to non-nuke - a couple went to ISO distribution, one went hydro, another went wind.

It's all in what you make of something once you get there...

A long time ago... I was gonna be an architect   :-\
Remember who you love. Remember what is sacred. Remember what is true.
Remember that you will die, and that this day is a gift. Remember how you wish to live, may the blessing of the Lord be with you

Offline ddickey

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2013, 05:56 »
See my point?  When an employer gets your written work, they focus only on the mistakes. They act by simply passing up the resumes'.  I worked at firm and watched a pile of resumes' get processed.  They literally went through the pile threw those out with simple misspellings.  The competition is that fierce.  If you ever had resumes' not responded to, that reason is a real possibility.
Resumes not resumes'. Couldn't resist. Now someone give me a job!

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2013, 08:26 »
Resumes not resumes'. Couldn't resist. Now someone give me a job!

Résumés?  ;)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 09:24 by UncaBuffalo »
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Offline cheme09

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2013, 09:48 »
Thank you everyone for your comments. I was just wondering if I had wasted time seeing as a lot of people have bachelors. I will try at non nuke plants first and see where that leads me. Thank you for everyone who took a couple minutes to reply.

Why not try nukes and non-nukes concurrently?

She loved it and couldn't imagine going to commercial nuclear, at the co-gen work actually got done when it needed to, instead of after all the paperwork was signed off.
My plant has also lost a few operators and I&C techs to non-nuke - a couple went to ISO distribution, one went hydro, another went wind.

Lost a couple engineers at my plant also for the same reason.

Offline Bradtv

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2013, 04:18 »
I would like to think it is not useless as I received an Associate of Industrial Science (Power Plant Operations) last summer and am now in non-licensed operator training.  Through the school I also was able to secure a 12 week summer internship at a nuclear plant.

You will be competing with all sorts of candidates with many different backgrounds: Navy, 4 year degrees, power plant experience.  Anything you can do to present better on a resume will help get you to the first steps of POSS testing and interviews.  It took me three interviews to get an offer and I had to move quite far away.  I would have had to wait another year or more if I limited myself to certain plants.

You mentioned engineering.  As far as traditional engineers go, while you would have to pursue a traditional engineering degree... it could translate to more opportunities.

If you're able to handle the last three credits over the summer, you can apply to new postings.  Be honest that you are not quite, but almost finished with the degree.  Don't pass on other opportunities to get your foot in the door.
« Last Edit: Jun 01, 2013, 03:00 by Bradtv »
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It's the transition that's troublesome."  -Asimov

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #18 on: Dec 31, 2013, 08:13 »

Yes, keep applying for work.  

The associates is plenty of education to show the plants you are:
1. trainable.  
2. willing to finish something you start.

That's all they need to see...if they need people.  Right now you are fighting a situation in nuclear power where supply exceeds demand (due to a bazillion schools pumping out people with associates degrees), so it's tougher to get in, no matter what your quals are.  Maybe it's easier to get hired on the non-nuke side?  I would apply everywhere that met my minimum requirements (location, pay, etc).  That being said, don't just wallpaper the world with a generic resume - take time to craft each resume and cover letter to match the job and company you are applying with.

Further down the road, you will probably want the bachelors degree if you want to climb the ladder.  If you can't find a job, you could start on that now.  BUT, as Birch said, the associates is sufficient to get you in on the ground level.

Good luck.  :)





Full disclosure:  I graduated with an associates at another point when the industry was reaching 'flood stage'.  The school I attended closed their nuclear programs a year later, because they were having no success placing graduates.  I couldn't get hired for over six months, but just kept plugging away with the applications.  Eventually, I got my foot in the door and...nuclear power was VERY, VERY good to me!  :)


    I was always hand fed and reinforced with the idea that, "There is currently a high demand for highly skilled Radiological Control Technicians in today's nuclear industry" during my enrollment at school. I swallowed that junk hook, line, and sinker haha ....then I handed them a fat check.  :'(  On another note, have there honestly been that many accredited schools that have come out with specific AAS degrees in Rad Pro, Health Physics, Nuclear Technology. The term "bazillion" is a gross exaggeration isn't it?
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 2013, 08:24 by HideBehindAFatMan »

Offline Laundry Man

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #19 on: Dec 31, 2013, 08:58 »


A long time ago... I was gonna be an architect   :-\

I always wanted to be, a lumberjack!
LM

BuddyThePug

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #20 on: Dec 31, 2013, 09:19 »
I always wanted to be, a lumberjack!
LM


Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #21 on: Dec 31, 2013, 12:18 »
On another note, have there honestly been that many accredited schools that have come out with specific AAS degrees in Rad Pro, Health Physics, Nuclear Technology. The term "bazillion" is a gross exaggeration isn't it?

You could be right...maybe it was only umpteen...I lose track when it's more than I can count on my fingers...   ;)
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Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #22 on: Dec 31, 2013, 12:24 »
   After tmi there were three of significance, in florida and texas - AS degrees, and idaho, a certificate...irm school, a certificate, followed. Hanford, oak ridge, savannah  had programs that mainly accommodated their sites.
   Your question about the value of the Associate of Science degree in the nuclear industry has a much much larger context.
  
   The literacy revolution in the Western world in 1500 began this issue. By 1800 with the advent of coal and steam the Industrial Revolution accelerated the issue. By the year 2000 the information revolution had changed everything.
  
   I think what will happen to the industry will determine the value of the degree.

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #23 on: Dec 31, 2013, 01:11 »
On another note, have there honestly been that many accredited schools that have come out with specific AAS degrees in Rad Pro, Health Physics, Nuclear Technology. The term "bazillion" is a gross exaggeration isn't it?

This is the most complete list I ever saw:

http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,34778.msg162220.html#msg162220

Schools in the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program

Arizona
Estrella Mountain Community College
www.estrellamountain.edu

California
Miracosta College
www.miracosta.edu

Connecticut
Three Rivers Community College
www.trcc.commnet.edu

Florida
Indian River State College
www.ircc.edu
Miami Dade College
www.mdc.edu

Georgia
Augusta Technical College
www.augustatech.edu
Wallace Community College
www.wallace.edu

Idaho
ESTEC/Idaho State University
www.isu.edu

Kentucky
West Kentucky Community & Technical College
www.westkentucky.kctcs.edu

Maryland
College of Southern Maryland
www.csmd.edu

Michigan
Lake Michigan Community College
www.lakemichigancollege.edu
Monroe County Community College
www.monroeccc.edu

Minnesota
Dakota County Technical College
www.dctc.edu
St. Cloud Technical College
www.sctc.edu

Missouri
Linn State
www.linnstate.edu

Nebraska
Metropolitan Community College
www.mccneb.edu
Southeast Community College
www.southeast.edu

New Jersey
Salem Community College
www.salemcc.edu

New Mexico
New Mexico Jr. College
www.nmjc.edu

New York
Excelsior College
www.excelsior.edu
Onondaga Community College
www.sunyocc.edu
Westchester Community College
www.sunywcc.edu

North Carolina
Gaston College
http://www.gaston.edu/

North Dakota
Bismarck State College
www.bismarckstate.edu

Ohio
Lakeland Community College
www.Lakelandcc.edu

Pennsylvania
Delaware County Community College
www.dccc.edu
Luzerne County Community College
www.luzerne.edu

South Carolina
Aiken Technical College
www.atc.edu
Florence Darlington Technical College
http://www.fdtc.edu/
Midlands Technical College
www.mid.tec.sc.us
Orangeburg-Calhoun Technical College
www.octech.edu
Spartanburg Technical College
www.sccsc.edu

Texas
Brazosport College
www.brazosport.edu
Texas State Technical College
www.tstc.edu
Wharton County Junior College
www.wcjc.edu

Tennessee
Chattanooga State Community College
www.chattanoogastate.edu

Washington
Columbia Basin College
www.columbiabasin.edu

Wisconsin
Lakeshore Technical College
www.gotoltc.edu
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 2013, 01:44 by UncaBuffalo »
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days. -Ray Wylie Hubbard

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #24 on: Dec 31, 2013, 02:16 »
Wow, thanks for the link. Yeah...that definitely is a longer list than I imagined. This is the first time I've seen this post let alone heard about the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program. I haven't been here for long but it seems that most people are talking about Thomas Edison State College's BSAST in Radiation Protection more than anything else. Aren't there more schools offering bachelor degrees in Health Physics than BA's in Rad Pro? If you already have an A.A.S. in Rad Pro, isn't considering getting that BA in Health Physics rather than Rad Pro a good idea if it means going to a more noteworthy/accredited institution. And, maybe I haven't read enough posts yet, but if it is so important to go to a school in the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program than why are people raving about Thomas Edison State while they aren't even a part of it. Futhermore, a large number of schools with the ABET accreditation (also mentioned on NEI's website) aren't a part of the Uniform Curriculum Program, such as Thomas Edison. All I am saying is that for new people who are trying to give themselves the best chance by trying to pinpoint the right school/program...it can be a bit daunting and confusing. Surely there are a one or two fully-accredited schools offering B.A.'s in either Rad Pro or Health Physics that are generally considered "the best."
« Last Edit: Dec 31, 2013, 02:23 by The Stig »

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #25 on: Dec 31, 2013, 03:07 »
Find the one nearest where you want to work. Chances are the utility in that area helped develop the curriculum and THAT is the agree they value most.

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #26 on: Dec 31, 2013, 04:28 »
Find the one nearest where you want to work. Chances are the utility in that area helped develop the curriculum and THAT is the agree they value most.

aren't you in one of nukeworker's success stories?

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #27 on: Dec 31, 2013, 04:46 »
aren't you in one of nukeworker's success stories?

Yes "He is a legend in his own mind"   [devious]



Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #28 on: Dec 31, 2013, 11:53 »
Broadzilla and Marlin are of the same genesis...The Rickover Effect...the title of a famous book by the admiral's health physicist, Theodore Rockwell. Our country will not see their like again.


Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #29 on: Jan 01, 2014, 11:39 »
I know Rockwell personally. He was on an advisory board for Detroit EDison. A Smart guy who was the genesis for virtually every shielding criteria that exists.

Smart guy but the Rickover Effect was a terrible book and a blatant example of biographical masturbation. TBH I wasn't a product of the Rickover era and feel overall he did more harm than good. His contributions are over rated and his accomplishments were really already set in stone before he even came into the nuclear world. The Sub Reactor program was in perfectly capable hands and was considered a backwater of the nuclear world. The officer originally in charge recognized it as a career killer and more or less gave Rickover a finished product. Smart guy yeah, Visionary no. He played the polkitical game well and was more than willing to stay in that job forever because he had nowhere else to go. Rickover Effect is literary vomit.

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #30 on: Jan 01, 2014, 12:10 »
   An American President described him as history's greatest engineer. There was S1W, the Nautilus and Shippingport...the well shielded 688.
   Running Critical, the Silent War, Rickover and General Dynamics
   Patrick Tyler

« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 12:20 by Wlrun3 »

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #31 on: Jan 01, 2014, 12:27 »
THat President knew nothing about Engineering. Rickover did not Engineer the plants. The basic engineering was already done.

The 688, S6G should never have been used. There was a better design on the books. If you read Running CRitical you'd know that. It wasn't very complimentary to Rickover. At best he was a average engineer. If you want histories GREATEST engineer I'd suggest FErmi , who did more practical engineering than Rickover ever attempted. All Rickover ever did was organize someone elses engineering.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #32 on: Jan 01, 2014, 12:34 »
I know Rockwell personally. He was on an advisory board for Detroit EDison. A Smart guy who was the genesis for virtually every shielding criteria that exists.

Smart guy but the Rickover Effect was a terrible book and a blatant example of biographical masturbation. TBH I wasn't a product of the Rickover era and feel overall he did more harm than good. His contributions are over rated and his accomplishments were really already set in stone before he even came into the nuclear world. The Sub Reactor program was in perfectly capable hands and was considered a backwater of the nuclear world. The officer originally in charge recognized it as a career killer and more or less gave Rickover a finished product. Smart guy yeah, Visionary no. He played the polkitical game well and was more than willing to stay in that job forever because he had nowhere else to go. Rickover Effect is literary vomit.

   A little revisionist history BZ, Rickover went over the heads of many of his superiors to talk to Admiral Nimitz to promote naval nuclear propulsion. Nimitz being a submariner himself recognized the value of a nuclear submarine and endorsed it. Rickover's superior's did not share his enthusiasm for marine nuclear propulsion which is why he went over their head's something he continued to do for his entire career as the longest serving naval officer in history.
« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 01:21 by Marlin »

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #33 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:13 »
Fermi failed to recognize fission initially, Meitner did not.
Enrico Fermi, Physicist, Emile Segre'

  One of the most valuable things that I learned on this forum was the existence of the technical specifications on the NRC web site. It gave me the five modes of operation in the BWR and the six in the PWR, the origin of all release limits and the requirements for the evolutions in the refueling outage.
   
Thankyou Broadzilla


« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 01:31 by Wlrun3 »

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #34 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:35 »
Fermi failed to recognize fission initially, Meitner did not.
Enrico Fermi, Physicist, Emile Segre'

  One of the most valuable things that I learned on this forum was the existence of the technical specifications on the NRC web site. It gave me the five modes of operation in the BWR and the six in the PWR, the origin of all release limits and the requirements for the evolutions in the refueling outage.
   
Thankyou Broadzilla




Not material. Einstein and Bohr said a self sustaining reaction was impossible. Madam Curies Daughter and Son In Law missed Fission and the Neutron. It was outside their experience. Stop reading that Rockwell BS and REad The History Of The Atomic Bomb. Then you'll see what a whiz kid Fermi really was. Do not confuse a Theoretical lapse with making a theory a practical design. Fermi alone had that ability.

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #35 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:40 »
  A little revisionist history BZ, Rickover went over the heads of many of his superiors to talk to Admiral Nimitz to promote naval nuclear propulsion. Nimitz being a submariner himself recognized the value of a nuclear submarine and endorsed it. Rickover's superior's did not share his enthusiasm for marine nuclear propulsion which is why he went over their head's something he continued to do for his entire career as the longest serving naval officer in history.


Actually no. A guy named Briggs did that. The design was already set. The Navy was fighting for its existence in a nuclear arsenal world. I'll rat for maybe 5 years Rickover was worth it. After that no he wasn't. He was not a great engineer and when nuke was first discovered the BIGGEST impediment to a Bomb was Naval Insistence on a Submarine REactor. This was in 1940. At first oversite of Nuke was a purely Naval Affair. It was wrested away when Roosevelt declared only weapons that would immediately have potential impact on the war would be funded. Given the technology had not been developed to enrich for a small bomb there was no way to develop a war winning nuclear reactor. As soon as the war ended those funds were diverted to the Sub Reactor Program. Rickover simply happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #36 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:41 »
 "Do not confuse a Theoretical lapse with making a theory a practical design."

Well said, Thankyou again

thenuttyneutron

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #37 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:42 »
Wow, thanks for the link. Yeah...that definitely is a longer list than I imagined. This is the first time I've seen this post let alone heard about the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program. I haven't been here for long but it seems that most people are talking about Thomas Edison State College's BSAST in Radiation Protection more than anything else. Aren't there more schools offering bachelor degrees in Health Physics than BA's in Rad Pro? If you already have an A.A.S. in Rad Pro, isn't considering getting that BA in Health Physics rather than Rad Pro a good idea if it means going to a more noteworthy/accredited institution. And, maybe I haven't read enough posts yet, but if it is so important to go to a school in the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program than why are people raving about Thomas Edison State while they aren't even a part of it. Futhermore, a large number of schools with the ABET accreditation (also mentioned on NEI's website) aren't a part of the Uniform Curriculum Program, such as Thomas Edison. All I am saying is that for new people who are trying to give themselves the best chance by trying to pinpoint the right school/program...it can be a bit daunting and confusing. Surely there are a one or two fully-accredited schools offering B.A.'s in either Rad Pro or Health Physics that are generally considered "the best."

Search for State funded Universities that have undergraduate Nuclear Engineering programs.  These programs seem to have both the "engineering" route as well as the "rad pro" route.

http://www.umich.edu/~radinfo/education/universities.htm

Offline Marlin

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #38 on: Jan 01, 2014, 02:15 »

Actually no. A guy named Briggs did that. The design was already set. The Navy was fighting for its existence in a nuclear arsenal world. I'll rat for maybe 5 years Rickover was worth it. After that no he wasn't. He was not a great engineer and when nuke was first discovered the BIGGEST impediment to a Bomb was Naval Insistence on a Submarine REactor. This was in 1940. At first oversite of Nuke was a purely Naval Affair. It was wrested away when Roosevelt declared only weapons that would immediately have potential impact on the war would be funded. Given the technology had not been developed to enrich for a small bomb there was no way to develop a war winning nuclear reactor. As soon as the war ended those funds were diverted to the Sub Reactor Program. Rickover simply happened to be at the right place at the right time.

   Rickover did not enter the nuclear arena until after WWII he was in the first group of four naval officers to go through the doctorate program at the graphite reactor in Oak Ridge. He was an engineering manager not one of the engineers but his finger print was on the design as he guided it. One of the impacts he made on design helped reduce the radiation exposure to us in submarines. As I am sure you are aware Russian submarine reactors used mechanical seals on it's control rod drives causing some of the elevated exposure they got. Rickover delayed the construction of the S1W plant until we had a better solution. Yes much reactor design was done prior to Rickover but the Naval Nuclear program as we know it was his. The only impact he made on the nuclear community was the diversion of money from the Air Force's Nuclear airplane after the war. In WWII Rickover was assigned to Pearl Harbor to put the engine room of the USS California back in operation then on to shipyards.
   So yes Rickover was one of many in the post Manhattan Project world but he was the prime mover for Navy Nuclear power as we know it. His predecessors you speak of that he originally worked for were working on nuclear powered destroyers which never happened and were the officers whose head he went over to make it happen.
« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 02:43 by Marlin »

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #39 on: Jan 01, 2014, 03:03 »
   Ideally a student choosing our path would attend one of the junior colleges listed since they are subsidized by the industry, decide whether to continue to the bachelors and masters at the universities listed on the Health Physics Society website or go on the road working 72 hours per week, six months a year, declaring roughly $60,000 a year, including the roughly $15,000 of declarable unemployment benefits received in the 6 months, december, january, may, june, july and august or be hired by, as a current common example, Exelon, making over $100,000 a year with shift work and resource sharing at other sites in the fleet and, not uncommon, at other utilities.
   In the case of this, DOE would be similar, permanent employment, slow, but consistent, progress would be made, using the generous tuition reimbursement provided, toward the bachelors degree and preparation for the exam to attain national registration with the NRRPT, which, in the case of Exelon, is valued.
   After roughly three years, status as an ANSI 3.1 Radiation Protection Technician is attained and various options within the profession become available.
   Given this timeline, the value of a bachelors degree, I have the Edison bachelors, is irrelevent.
   The choices made at the beginning, given your ability and desire,  determine the path.


« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2014, 12:31 by Wlrun3 »

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #40 on: Jan 01, 2014, 03:18 »
thanks Wlrun3

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #41 on: Jan 01, 2014, 03:30 »
You're quite welcome.

Thanks to you, we've just experienced one of the most engaging and worthwhile exchanges the forum, in my experience here, has seen.





« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2014, 12:34 by Wlrun3 »

Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #42 on: Jan 06, 2014, 04:44 »
    I was always hand fed and reinforced with the idea that, "There is currently a high demand for highly skilled Radiological Control Technicians in today's nuclear industry" during my enrollment at school. I swallowed that junk hook, line, and sinker haha ....then I handed them a fat check.  :'(  On another note, have there honestly been that many accredited schools that have come out with specific AAS degrees in Rad Pro, Health Physics, Nuclear Technology. The term "bazillion" is a gross exaggeration isn't it?

They technically were not lying.  There is a demand for highly skilled Radiological Control Technicians.  There is just little demand for lowly skilled technicians like you are when your graduate a two year school.  The question you should have asked was, "What are the current placement percentages of graduates at your school."  I also spent 5 years at college and told of the demand for experienced teachers.  Same problem with placement.  It took me a year of substituting and willingness to take the most desperate districts to get my first job.  I finally left teaching because it did not pay enough.  I make more on unemployment today then I used to take home as an Arizona Teacher back in 2001.
My step-son's fiance has a 4 year radiological degree and she works as a deconner.  Naked education without experience is just not enough to excite employers in a stagnant industry.  Now if we stop closing existing plants and actually build new ones, things could change.  Just don't hold your breathe waiting.

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #43 on: Jan 06, 2014, 06:32 »
I checked the placement and it was high.

Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #44 on: Jan 07, 2014, 01:31 »
Sounds like they lied.  I remember some time back schools who lied and were sued to get a refund of tuition when they misrepresented job placement.  Had they told the truth you may have not went to their school.

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #45 on: Jan 07, 2014, 07:35 »
Ouch

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #46 on: Jan 07, 2014, 08:56 »
Sounds like they lied.  I remember some time back schools who lied and were sued to get a refund of tuition when they misrepresented job placement.  Had they told the truth you may have not went to their school.
I checked the placement and it was high.

An alternate scenario has the school telling the truth at the time Stig inquired...and then the job situation changed because so many schools were churning out graduates and all the Stimulus bucks were churning out DOE techs that have since been laid off...
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days. -Ray Wylie Hubbard

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #47 on: Jan 07, 2014, 09:04 »
Well the percentage was based off of a time period of (within 6 months after graduation) and seeing as how it hasn't even been one month for me I should be fine  ;)

Offline Imaginos

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #48 on: Jan 07, 2014, 12:43 »
"...may have not went..."

Really? This normally would warrant a good ol' "let it slide," but what with the regular crowing about all your years of college and your Glorious Experience as Educator...  ;)

On topic, I can't imagine a scenario where a power plant degree is more worthless than no degree.

While this thread will likely be of assistance to others, the original poster hasn't made a registered appearance since May of last year.
"I'm not quiet; I just don't demand to be heard." ---George Harrison

chuckdhuff

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #49 on: Jan 07, 2014, 03:26 »
Really? This normally would warrant a good ol' "let it slide," but what with the regular crowing about all your years of college and your Glorious Experience as Educator...  ;)

On topic, I can't imagine a scenario where a power plant degree is more worthless than no degree.

While this thread will likely be of assistance to others, the original poster hasn't made a registered appearance since May of last year.

 +K +K

Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #50 on: Jan 08, 2014, 09:39 »
Really? This normally would warrant a good ol' "let it slide," but what with the regular crowing about all your years of college and your Glorious Experience as Educator...  ;)

On topic, I can't imagine a scenario where a power plant degree is more worthless than no degree.

While this thread will likely be of assistance to others, the original poster hasn't made a registered appearance since May of last year.

Really?  And navy ELT does not have a degree yet can get a job a whole lot easier the a two year graduate.  I have seen advertisements asking for ex ELT's for jobs, never seen same for 2 year degrees.  Experience and training relevant to field still beats out a degree, especially when they are churning degrees at a dime a dozen.

 


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