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Author Topic: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??  (Read 49471 times)

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Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #25 on: Dec 31, 2013, 03:07 »
Find the one nearest where you want to work. Chances are the utility in that area helped develop the curriculum and THAT is the agree they value most.

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #26 on: Dec 31, 2013, 04:28 »
Find the one nearest where you want to work. Chances are the utility in that area helped develop the curriculum and THAT is the agree they value most.

aren't you in one of nukeworker's success stories?

Offline Marlin

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #27 on: Dec 31, 2013, 04:46 »
aren't you in one of nukeworker's success stories?

Yes "He is a legend in his own mind"   [devious]



Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #28 on: Dec 31, 2013, 11:53 »
Broadzilla and Marlin are of the same genesis...The Rickover Effect...the title of a famous book by the admiral's health physicist, Theodore Rockwell. Our country will not see their like again.


Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #29 on: Jan 01, 2014, 11:39 »
I know Rockwell personally. He was on an advisory board for Detroit EDison. A Smart guy who was the genesis for virtually every shielding criteria that exists.

Smart guy but the Rickover Effect was a terrible book and a blatant example of biographical masturbation. TBH I wasn't a product of the Rickover era and feel overall he did more harm than good. His contributions are over rated and his accomplishments were really already set in stone before he even came into the nuclear world. The Sub Reactor program was in perfectly capable hands and was considered a backwater of the nuclear world. The officer originally in charge recognized it as a career killer and more or less gave Rickover a finished product. Smart guy yeah, Visionary no. He played the polkitical game well and was more than willing to stay in that job forever because he had nowhere else to go. Rickover Effect is literary vomit.

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #30 on: Jan 01, 2014, 12:10 »
   An American President described him as history's greatest engineer. There was S1W, the Nautilus and Shippingport...the well shielded 688.
   Running Critical, the Silent War, Rickover and General Dynamics
   Patrick Tyler

« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 12:20 by Wlrun3 »

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #31 on: Jan 01, 2014, 12:27 »
THat President knew nothing about Engineering. Rickover did not Engineer the plants. The basic engineering was already done.

The 688, S6G should never have been used. There was a better design on the books. If you read Running CRitical you'd know that. It wasn't very complimentary to Rickover. At best he was a average engineer. If you want histories GREATEST engineer I'd suggest FErmi , who did more practical engineering than Rickover ever attempted. All Rickover ever did was organize someone elses engineering.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #32 on: Jan 01, 2014, 12:34 »
I know Rockwell personally. He was on an advisory board for Detroit EDison. A Smart guy who was the genesis for virtually every shielding criteria that exists.

Smart guy but the Rickover Effect was a terrible book and a blatant example of biographical masturbation. TBH I wasn't a product of the Rickover era and feel overall he did more harm than good. His contributions are over rated and his accomplishments were really already set in stone before he even came into the nuclear world. The Sub Reactor program was in perfectly capable hands and was considered a backwater of the nuclear world. The officer originally in charge recognized it as a career killer and more or less gave Rickover a finished product. Smart guy yeah, Visionary no. He played the polkitical game well and was more than willing to stay in that job forever because he had nowhere else to go. Rickover Effect is literary vomit.

   A little revisionist history BZ, Rickover went over the heads of many of his superiors to talk to Admiral Nimitz to promote naval nuclear propulsion. Nimitz being a submariner himself recognized the value of a nuclear submarine and endorsed it. Rickover's superior's did not share his enthusiasm for marine nuclear propulsion which is why he went over their head's something he continued to do for his entire career as the longest serving naval officer in history.
« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 01:21 by Marlin »

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #33 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:13 »
Fermi failed to recognize fission initially, Meitner did not.
Enrico Fermi, Physicist, Emile Segre'

  One of the most valuable things that I learned on this forum was the existence of the technical specifications on the NRC web site. It gave me the five modes of operation in the BWR and the six in the PWR, the origin of all release limits and the requirements for the evolutions in the refueling outage.
   
Thankyou Broadzilla


« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 01:31 by Wlrun3 »

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #34 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:35 »
Fermi failed to recognize fission initially, Meitner did not.
Enrico Fermi, Physicist, Emile Segre'

  One of the most valuable things that I learned on this forum was the existence of the technical specifications on the NRC web site. It gave me the five modes of operation in the BWR and the six in the PWR, the origin of all release limits and the requirements for the evolutions in the refueling outage.
   
Thankyou Broadzilla




Not material. Einstein and Bohr said a self sustaining reaction was impossible. Madam Curies Daughter and Son In Law missed Fission and the Neutron. It was outside their experience. Stop reading that Rockwell BS and REad The History Of The Atomic Bomb. Then you'll see what a whiz kid Fermi really was. Do not confuse a Theoretical lapse with making a theory a practical design. Fermi alone had that ability.

Fermi2

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #35 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:40 »
  A little revisionist history BZ, Rickover went over the heads of many of his superiors to talk to Admiral Nimitz to promote naval nuclear propulsion. Nimitz being a submariner himself recognized the value of a nuclear submarine and endorsed it. Rickover's superior's did not share his enthusiasm for marine nuclear propulsion which is why he went over their head's something he continued to do for his entire career as the longest serving naval officer in history.


Actually no. A guy named Briggs did that. The design was already set. The Navy was fighting for its existence in a nuclear arsenal world. I'll rat for maybe 5 years Rickover was worth it. After that no he wasn't. He was not a great engineer and when nuke was first discovered the BIGGEST impediment to a Bomb was Naval Insistence on a Submarine REactor. This was in 1940. At first oversite of Nuke was a purely Naval Affair. It was wrested away when Roosevelt declared only weapons that would immediately have potential impact on the war would be funded. Given the technology had not been developed to enrich for a small bomb there was no way to develop a war winning nuclear reactor. As soon as the war ended those funds were diverted to the Sub Reactor Program. Rickover simply happened to be at the right place at the right time.

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #36 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:41 »
 "Do not confuse a Theoretical lapse with making a theory a practical design."

Well said, Thankyou again

thenuttyneutron

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #37 on: Jan 01, 2014, 01:42 »
Wow, thanks for the link. Yeah...that definitely is a longer list than I imagined. This is the first time I've seen this post let alone heard about the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program. I haven't been here for long but it seems that most people are talking about Thomas Edison State College's BSAST in Radiation Protection more than anything else. Aren't there more schools offering bachelor degrees in Health Physics than BA's in Rad Pro? If you already have an A.A.S. in Rad Pro, isn't considering getting that BA in Health Physics rather than Rad Pro a good idea if it means going to a more noteworthy/accredited institution. And, maybe I haven't read enough posts yet, but if it is so important to go to a school in the Nuclear Uniform Curriculum Program than why are people raving about Thomas Edison State while they aren't even a part of it. Futhermore, a large number of schools with the ABET accreditation (also mentioned on NEI's website) aren't a part of the Uniform Curriculum Program, such as Thomas Edison. All I am saying is that for new people who are trying to give themselves the best chance by trying to pinpoint the right school/program...it can be a bit daunting and confusing. Surely there are a one or two fully-accredited schools offering B.A.'s in either Rad Pro or Health Physics that are generally considered "the best."

Search for State funded Universities that have undergraduate Nuclear Engineering programs.  These programs seem to have both the "engineering" route as well as the "rad pro" route.

http://www.umich.edu/~radinfo/education/universities.htm

Offline Marlin

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #38 on: Jan 01, 2014, 02:15 »

Actually no. A guy named Briggs did that. The design was already set. The Navy was fighting for its existence in a nuclear arsenal world. I'll rat for maybe 5 years Rickover was worth it. After that no he wasn't. He was not a great engineer and when nuke was first discovered the BIGGEST impediment to a Bomb was Naval Insistence on a Submarine REactor. This was in 1940. At first oversite of Nuke was a purely Naval Affair. It was wrested away when Roosevelt declared only weapons that would immediately have potential impact on the war would be funded. Given the technology had not been developed to enrich for a small bomb there was no way to develop a war winning nuclear reactor. As soon as the war ended those funds were diverted to the Sub Reactor Program. Rickover simply happened to be at the right place at the right time.

   Rickover did not enter the nuclear arena until after WWII he was in the first group of four naval officers to go through the doctorate program at the graphite reactor in Oak Ridge. He was an engineering manager not one of the engineers but his finger print was on the design as he guided it. One of the impacts he made on design helped reduce the radiation exposure to us in submarines. As I am sure you are aware Russian submarine reactors used mechanical seals on it's control rod drives causing some of the elevated exposure they got. Rickover delayed the construction of the S1W plant until we had a better solution. Yes much reactor design was done prior to Rickover but the Naval Nuclear program as we know it was his. The only impact he made on the nuclear community was the diversion of money from the Air Force's Nuclear airplane after the war. In WWII Rickover was assigned to Pearl Harbor to put the engine room of the USS California back in operation then on to shipyards.
   So yes Rickover was one of many in the post Manhattan Project world but he was the prime mover for Navy Nuclear power as we know it. His predecessors you speak of that he originally worked for were working on nuclear powered destroyers which never happened and were the officers whose head he went over to make it happen.
« Last Edit: Jan 01, 2014, 02:43 by Marlin »

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #39 on: Jan 01, 2014, 03:03 »
   Ideally a student choosing our path would attend one of the junior colleges listed since they are subsidized by the industry, decide whether to continue to the bachelors and masters at the universities listed on the Health Physics Society website or go on the road working 72 hours per week, six months a year, declaring roughly $60,000 a year, including the roughly $15,000 of declarable unemployment benefits received in the 6 months, december, january, may, june, july and august or be hired by, as a current common example, Exelon, making over $100,000 a year with shift work and resource sharing at other sites in the fleet and, not uncommon, at other utilities.
   In the case of this, DOE would be similar, permanent employment, slow, but consistent, progress would be made, using the generous tuition reimbursement provided, toward the bachelors degree and preparation for the exam to attain national registration with the NRRPT, which, in the case of Exelon, is valued.
   After roughly three years, status as an ANSI 3.1 Radiation Protection Technician is attained and various options within the profession become available.
   Given this timeline, the value of a bachelors degree, I have the Edison bachelors, is irrelevent.
   The choices made at the beginning, given your ability and desire,  determine the path.


« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2014, 12:31 by Wlrun3 »

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #40 on: Jan 01, 2014, 03:18 »
thanks Wlrun3

Wlrun3

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #41 on: Jan 01, 2014, 03:30 »
You're quite welcome.

Thanks to you, we've just experienced one of the most engaging and worthwhile exchanges the forum, in my experience here, has seen.





« Last Edit: Jan 03, 2014, 12:34 by Wlrun3 »

Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #42 on: Jan 06, 2014, 04:44 »
    I was always hand fed and reinforced with the idea that, "There is currently a high demand for highly skilled Radiological Control Technicians in today's nuclear industry" during my enrollment at school. I swallowed that junk hook, line, and sinker haha ....then I handed them a fat check.  :'(  On another note, have there honestly been that many accredited schools that have come out with specific AAS degrees in Rad Pro, Health Physics, Nuclear Technology. The term "bazillion" is a gross exaggeration isn't it?

They technically were not lying.  There is a demand for highly skilled Radiological Control Technicians.  There is just little demand for lowly skilled technicians like you are when your graduate a two year school.  The question you should have asked was, "What are the current placement percentages of graduates at your school."  I also spent 5 years at college and told of the demand for experienced teachers.  Same problem with placement.  It took me a year of substituting and willingness to take the most desperate districts to get my first job.  I finally left teaching because it did not pay enough.  I make more on unemployment today then I used to take home as an Arizona Teacher back in 2001.
My step-son's fiance has a 4 year radiological degree and she works as a deconner.  Naked education without experience is just not enough to excite employers in a stagnant industry.  Now if we stop closing existing plants and actually build new ones, things could change.  Just don't hold your breathe waiting.

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #43 on: Jan 06, 2014, 06:32 »
I checked the placement and it was high.

Content1

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #44 on: Jan 07, 2014, 01:31 »
Sounds like they lied.  I remember some time back schools who lied and were sued to get a refund of tuition when they misrepresented job placement.  Had they told the truth you may have not went to their school.

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #45 on: Jan 07, 2014, 07:35 »
Ouch

Offline UncaBuffalo

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #46 on: Jan 07, 2014, 08:56 »
Sounds like they lied.  I remember some time back schools who lied and were sued to get a refund of tuition when they misrepresented job placement.  Had they told the truth you may have not went to their school.
I checked the placement and it was high.

An alternate scenario has the school telling the truth at the time Stig inquired...and then the job situation changed because so many schools were churning out graduates and all the Stimulus bucks were churning out DOE techs that have since been laid off...
The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days. -Ray Wylie Hubbard

Offline S T I G

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #47 on: Jan 07, 2014, 09:04 »
Well the percentage was based off of a time period of (within 6 months after graduation) and seeing as how it hasn't even been one month for me I should be fine  ;)

Offline Imaginos

Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #48 on: Jan 07, 2014, 12:43 »
"...may have not went..."

Really? This normally would warrant a good ol' "let it slide," but what with the regular crowing about all your years of college and your Glorious Experience as Educator...  ;)

On topic, I can't imagine a scenario where a power plant degree is more worthless than no degree.

While this thread will likely be of assistance to others, the original poster hasn't made a registered appearance since May of last year.
"I'm not quiet; I just don't demand to be heard." ---George Harrison

chuckdhuff

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Re: Power Plant Associate Degree Worthless??
« Reply #49 on: Jan 07, 2014, 03:26 »
Really? This normally would warrant a good ol' "let it slide," but what with the regular crowing about all your years of college and your Glorious Experience as Educator...  ;)

On topic, I can't imagine a scenario where a power plant degree is more worthless than no degree.

While this thread will likely be of assistance to others, the original poster hasn't made a registered appearance since May of last year.

 +K +K

 


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