Naval Reactors Question

[Remydon]

Hello all! First time poster.

I'm a Mechanical Engineer working for the Navy as a civilian for about 4 years now, hold TS security clearance, and lead a small team in electronics cooling design work. I'm also working on my M.S. in Nuclear Engineering at night, and will be finishing up in May 2014. After that, I'm looking into what I want to do. A few of the guys I work with are retired enlisted navy, and they all seemed to think that the Navy compensation for nuke officers is ridiculous, and that the training and experience provided would be a fantastic addition to a resume (and that's if I didn't decide I liked it and made a career out of it). I've done a bit of research, and it looks like there are two paths: be a sub or carrier nuke officer, or Naval Reactors.

Almost all of the information I've seen on how selections are made is for people in ROTC or with a B.S.  Since I will already have a graduate degree in nuclear engineering, what would my first year of service look like? Would I go to OCS or OIS? Then on to A school and prototype? One of my neighbors is an active duty O-5, he seemed to think that Naval Reactors was recruited from the ranks of the propulsion officers, but wasn't sure. Can anyone answer that for sure?

Also, what are the odds of going into Naval Reactors instead of being a nuclear propulsion officer? I finished my Mech.E B.S. at the top of my class with a 3.9 GPA, currently holding a 4.0 in my Nuke.E M.S., and it looks like I'll keep it that way.

I'd appreciate any input. I've got some time to make the decision, but it is a big one and I'd like to get as much information as possible.

Thanks!

[HalfHazzard]

First let me tell you that I do not work at NR, I have my own opinions about it, which are just opinions.  The SME, Gamecock, is far more versed with the NR career paths which differ significantly from the URL paths in the Navy (Submarine and SWO(N)).

I'm a Mechanical Engineer working for the Navy as a civilian for about 4 years now, hold TS security clearance, and lead a small team in electronics cooling design work. I'm also working on my M.S. in Nuclear Engineering at night, and will be finishing up in May 2014. After that, I'm looking into what I want to do. A few of the guys I work with are retired enlisted navy, and they all seemed to think that the Navy compensation for nuke officers is ridiculous, and that the training and experience provided would be a fantastic addition to a resume (and that's if I didn't decide I liked it and made a career out of it). I've done a bit of research, and it looks like there are two paths: be a sub or carrier nuke officer, or Naval Reactors.

It seems to me that your two main reasons for joining are PAY and EXPERIENCE.

Some things to consider: Is the compensation ridiculous?  Look it up, as an officer, you're entitled to Base Pay, BAH (depending on zip code stationed), and BAS.  If you go to sea, Sea Pay or Sub Pay.  Also, generally only our base pay is counted for tax purposes (so called "Tax Advantage").  Is the compensation really "ridiculous" compared to what's available to you now?  I bring this up because if you think this is a factor for you joining, don't make an uniformed choice.  You know where you are now and where you could be in your next position.

Also, training and experience: what you claim you do now is engineering design and lead a team of people and you're almost done with a masters.  My resume (after six years of being a submarine officer) says I have operations experience, lead teams of people, and I almost have a masters (MBA however, BSME undergrad).  Consider yourself and myself: does one have an advantage over the other?  I feel your design experience is more relevant for most engineering jobs but that I might have an edge in leadership that I can market to a company.  At the end of the day, I feel I can sell myself better, but my value is only in the eye of the buyer.  I have always and continue to believe smart people will make it no matter what they start off as (I will try to sell what I've done as better during an interview though  )

My point is this:  if you're considering the Navy as a resume builder, it very well could be a wash after 5 years of service compared to your accomplishments thus far and where you'll be in five years if you continued.  If you're considering the Navy because you've always wanted to serve, or go to sea, or fight the ship, or design reactors on the shore side, then that could be reason enough.

Almost all of the information I've seen on how selections are made is for people in ROTC or with a B.S.  Since I will already have a graduate degree in nuclear engineering, what would my first year of service look like? Would I go to OCS or OIS? Then on to A school and prototype? One of my neighbors is an active duty O-5, he seemed to think that Naval Reactors was recruited from the ranks of the propulsion officers, but wasn't sure. Can anyone answer that for sure?

Also, what are the odds of going into Naval Reactors instead of being a nuclear propulsion officer? I finished my Mech.E B.S. at the top of my class with a 3.9 GPA, currently holding a 4.0 in my Nuke.E M.S., and it looks like I'll keep it that way.

Sub and SWO guys/gals go to OCS.  Follow on schools are Power School and Prototype.

NR Engineers go to OIS.  Follow on school is Bettis Reactor Engineering School.

Sub and SWO life has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum, and Gamecock could help you discuss what you'd do as an NR Engineer.  PM me if you don't find your questions answered.

Make informed decisions, and best of luck.

[Remydon]

Thanks for the information!

The thing that I'm having the most difficulty with now is getting INTO the nuclear design field without any experience. It would seem my only options are to get a junior engineer level job, which would be a major pay cut, or go for something like NR to get the experience. And while you are correct, the pay is not "ridiculous" compared to what I already make, it is a slight increase just looking at the base pay (assuming entry at O-3, which my neighbor who is an O-5 seems to think is reasonable for going in with a M.S. in a desirable field) and it gets me into the field that I want to work in.

Thanks again for the input!

[HalfHazzard]

I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain you WON'T enter as an O-3.  I think you'll be an O-1 if you go the NR route.  You will definitely be an O-1 if you go the URL route.

Some professions that enter as O-3 are doctors and lawyers when they finish their MD or JD.

[Fermi2]

Since when does NR do design?

[Remydon]

If NR doesn't do design, then why care about recruiting engineers, specifically high performing ones? If the primary purpose is to serve as PM types, it seems like that function would be better suited to MBA types with engineering minors or undergraduates.

[Fermi2]

Last I checked  Bettis and GE did design for the Navy. They could care less about what you think they'll use you for.

[Remydon]

Ah, well. Sounded like a good gig the way it was described to me. I figured it was the science and engineering analogue to how MD's and lawyers in the military operate, but it doesn't sound like such an outfit exists.

Thanks again for the information.

[Fermi2]

They probably have some sort of oversight function but it wouldn't make sense they do actual design.

[cheme09]

Unless SEGA is still available; I think it was only an option until the end of last FY, you would enter as an O-1.

[DLGN25]

It is a small club you want to join.  I think something like 250 engineers.  Getting there is like getting a scholarship to the Webb Institute of Naval Architecture.  Not easy to do, especially if retention is not a problem for NR.

Even if you are accepted, not all they do is design, in fact if you read the link below, most is not, or peripheral at best.  So, look at the numbers and tell me where an O1 will be assigned in the following list of potential disciplines while keeping in mind the heaviest demand for NR services. 

 · Advanced research and development in concepts, materials, design, and operation of nuclear propulsion plants
· Training and qualification of nuclear propulsion plant operators
· Reactor safety and radiological controls
· Development of equipment, procedures, and specifications for naval nuclear propulsion plants
· Overseeing the acquisition, construction, testing, and operation of propulsion plants
· Developing and implementing the operating, maintenance, and refueling procedures for these plants
· Resolving emergent fleet technical issues
· Decommissioning the nuclear propulsion plants when removed from service

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/officerjo2/a/reactors.htm

And while you are doing this, keep in mind, it takes 4 years to become an O3 or Lieutenant after being commissioned, then another 4 years to advance to O4 or Lt. Cmdr.  Advancement is limited by regulation, not capability, although capability is needed for advancement above O3.   Perhaps you need to look to the civilian contractors who support and work with NR as a option where qualification and capability play a bigger part in advancement.  Then again, that too is a small world.

If you can get a signed contract that puts you into the NR program, go for it.  But keep in mind, the Navy will put you where they need you there and it probably will not be in design of significant components. 

Also, if the Navy wants you to sign first then determine if there is a billet in NR, move on unless being an operating engineer is your desire.

Good luck to you.

Oh, once in golf is a game you should work on to become good at, along with the chit chat the goes with it.  The reality is that to get ahead in the Navy, social skills are equally important.

By the way, I was not an officer, just an enlisted RO who became an accountant and advanced rapidly in that field due in great part to the discipline I learned in Naval Nuclear Power.  And yes, I could have gone into the civilian nuclear power world, but I had no desire to leave So. Calif. for Illinois, the only real option when I left the field.

[cheme09]

Also keep in mind that NRE officers serve only a 5 year term.  At the end of you initial commitment, you either have to redesignate or resign your commission.  That doesn't mean you have to stop working there, though.  There is a possibility that you could continue working there as a civilian.

[klj3827]

I'm on my phone so I will be terse. I apologize for any typos.

You will enter as an O1.

Design work at NR is incredibly limited. NR engineers primarily function as engineering managers overseeing the work performed by the labs, shipyards, fleet and other NNPP contractors.

Additionally the jobs at NR are incredibly varied (from ESH, to core manufacturing, to valve engineering, to systems engineering, to electrical engineering) and you will have NO say in your initial job

You will not go through NPS or Prototype. You do an initial set of coursework at NR before a 2-week indoctrination at one of the NPTUs. Then you will move to Pittsburgh for 5 months of schooling capped off with a 3-week indoctrination at a nuclear capable shipyard. You spend 1 week at NRF before returning to NRHQ.

Also, as previously stated it is a 5-year tour. At the end of your tour you can attempt to transfer to EDO or compete for a civilian slot. Right now both are incredibly limited and good engineers are being sent on their way after their 5 years.

If you have any more questions drop me a PM.