Spring Season, The Squeeze is on!

[Already Gone]

Okay, I think we have a good idea of what planet Beer Court is living on, so lets get back on track with the original topic.
Will the next outage season be the one when the utilities.
    (A) notice that ALL the radworkers are getting older
    (B) realize that HPs are real people with families and lives of their own
    (C) figure out that it might not be that important to have an outage
         completed in 12 hours less than the last one
    (D) all of the above
   
   
                                        Old HP
                                     

That's a trick question!  You left out the correct answer : (E) they're to busy counting their bonus to give a damn.

[UncaBuffalo]

In no case does a tech get to choose what job he works unless the company gives him the choice.  (ex. two or more plants ask for the same tech at the same time)  Refusal of an assignment can lead to disciplinary action just like it does for the rest of the working world.

Hey Troy...Count me out on THIS idea.  The reason I am a rent-a-tech is so I can go where I want, when I want, if I want.

[UncaBuffalo]

Believe it or not, some managers have asked the more experienced Techs, to keep an eye on the Green Seniors!  Lets look at that one!  We both make the same money and you want me to take responsibility for someone else, while trying to do my own job?  Sorry, that's called a manager, ask somebody else!

Yeah, what HE said!

[Already Gone]

Hey Troy...Count me out on THIS idea.  The reason I am a rent-a-tech is so I can go where I want, when I want, if I want.

You're a good example of what I'm talking about.  In a more professional organization, you would be one of the key persons.  As such, you would have a lot more input on your assignments than the people who would be working for you.  Not only would you get to decide things like where you would work, but you would get a say in picking the rest of the crew.  Wouldn't it be Heaven if you could get the job you want and not have it spoiled by the presence of all those oxygen wasters?

[Old HP]

Rad Ghost--- You were rather long winded in your last post but you hit on MANY very good points. You deserve a pay raise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But as the saying goes you come first (right after me).
Anyway thanks for sharing your experiences with us.

                                           Old HP

[RAD-GHOST]

Sorry to see this one go the way it did.  Looked like it had some potential!

One-Man-Ship is alive an well and the Contract Companies LOVE IT!

RIP...... RG!   

KARMA to you BC.......

[dblaies]

Hey all,

I've been in the business since '81 and I have seen B go from offering Blue Cross/ Blue Shield over the phone upon acceptance of a job to now not even offering per diem at some of their DOE sites. You bet I declined.

Low ball the contracts if you will, but somehow I have a mortgage to pay 12 months a year. I find that my savings on $21/hr (bare) is not enough to cover between short outages. Are utilities really going to be able to staff outages with only JHPs who live at home with their parents?

The last outage I worked at Kewaunee had contract techs working at $10/hr. LESS than the stable long-term house techs. B--is this really sustainable? Perhaps, now that you are in the driver's seat, you can review the techniques that you use to obtain contracts and get some better terms. I will never travel for you without reasonable per diem--period.

God help me if I fall sick on an outage without insurance...

Dave

[Old HP]

Dave,

You mean you don't have "that insurance"                      (AFLAC)
Where if you get hurt and miss work it doesn't hurt to miss work and they give you money that is as good as cash......................... .......

Anyway you hit on another plight of the HP contractor. That being if you are unable to work due to sickness or injury, you are pretty much hosed.
No work no check..
 
Ah the dilemma, so many outages and so little money with no benefits...

                    Another beaten down Old HP

[Chimera]

RAD-GHOST: I oved your diatribe . . . it was perfect.  I couldn't have said it better myself (I tried, you succeeded).

One other thing to throw into the mix.  The "other" crafts get paid what they do because they are considered to be "production oriented".  We (HP/RP Techs) are considered to be more like Safety.  We are not considered to be production oriented.  We are a highly necessary evil that most plants would like to do without.  That's why there was a movement afoot not too long ago to "cross train" the other crafts to provide their own HP coverage while they were working.  I do believe that INPO like that idea very much for awhile.

When we graduate to the same status as the "other" crafts, we will be able to command similar wages.  Until then, we are just HP Techs.

Will the upcoming outage season (Spring-2005) with its man-power estimates of up to 1,400 techs (at its peak) cause an increase in our wages?  I don't think so.  I have agreed to the jobs I wanted at wages that were acceptable to me.  I will settle for that for now.  I would like the higher wages, but I don't know how to drive that increase in today's market.  Perhaps someone should investigate how Diablo Canyon manages so successfully in this arena.

And, just for the record, I am NOT getting old (I'm not, I'm not [stamping foot on floor]).  That's not gray hair . . . it's platinum highlights (yeah, that's it).  It's too bad I enjoy what I do for a living -  all the traveling, new places, interesting people (okay, som of'em ain't so interesting).  I guess when the day comes that I can no longer make it up the stairs, I'll have to reconsider that position (help, I've fallen down and can't get up).

Merry Christmas to you all.

[SloGlo]

-10 pts for spelling.
"when a site can't staff thier packages"
"to support themselves and thier families"
"Thier" is spelled as "their" or "there" depending on proper grammar.
......Massachusetts skooling??
 

spill chik?  wotinell iz dat?  'n dawnt yinz fourgit hoew two spill "they're"

[Already Gone]

One other thing to throw into the mix.  The "other" crafts get paid what they do because they are considered to be "production oriented".  We (HP/RP Techs) are considered to be more like Safety.  We are not considered to be production oriented.  We are a highly necessary evil that most plants would like to do without.  That's why there was a movement afoot not too long ago to "cross train" the other crafts to provide their own HP coverage while they were working.  I do believe that INPO like that idea very much for awhile.

Mike, I hate to throw water on that argument, because it makes a lot of sense.  But Canadians train all their craft to do HP work..  They call them Green Men.  A Green Man provides RP to other people, usually of his own trade.  A Green Man is paid Foreman's wages while working as a Green Man.  When working as a regular tradesman they get regular journeyman wages.  It works great, 'cause all the Green Men who are actually doing the RP work tend to act just like a regular RP department.  There is no conflict of interest.

As to the other half... Well, I'll just say that I've worked in HP and Safety.  One of those jobs pays me almost twice as much as the other.  When you figure in double-time sundays, time and a half after eight and all day saturday, as well as higher per-diem.  You can see that they don't treat HP the same as safety.  I'll leave you to guess which one is the better job.  No fair flipping a coin.

[radman5030]

Not so, my job is to hire any/all able bodied techs available - pending quals & security of course.

Eric, hey there I was just wondering why when you post jobs you don't put what you are paying, this makes shopping a whole lot easier and we don't have to hassel the office gals.

Please in the future post $$$ and perdiem$$$ that way I can make an informed decision to return to the commercial field if I so decide.  I bet I am not the only one who would like to see the $$ posted.

Thanks Eric, and have a good time staffing with able bodied techs, what ever that means.   

[Old HP]

Tater-tot,

Good point. Most laborers laugh at HPs enough without knowing how little we get paid. So maybe by not posting pay rates we can fool a few of them into thinking we are highly trained and highly paid professionals. Especially since we can't get the utilities to believe it.

                                               Old HP

[beentheredunethat]

You want to make more money?
                  Why?
You will just spend all the money you make!

If you saved some dough when you worked.
  You would not have to work so much!

I may look like i was born yesterday.
   but i am really an old soul.

I think we all should be payed the same as the traveling House Techs.

[SloGlo]

I think we all should be payed the same as the traveling House Techs.

dreem on.  their people are working for a change for the money they are paid when they are on the road.  you are an extra expense.  so they go cheep.  betcha don't get the highest grade of fuel at the pump, do ya?

[Doc_REM]

Ya'll need to think about this...got off the road(working DOE) been here for over 1 1/2 year's(the longest job I've had)...  made over $65k in '04...with deim...didn't sweat...and didn't have to looking for a 4 week job everytime I turned around!

Maybe we should let them staff with newbie, just passed CORE test jr's!  would serve them right! Some of us have given them the BEST year's of our live's (25 of mine)! And what do we get...$22.50/$75 a day and 90 days of work a year! And miss seeing your family!

Thank-You DOE for giving me part of my life back!

[RDTroja]

I am sure that DOE is a great place to work for some, but I can't remember the last time I worked for $22.50 and $75. Most of the time it has been $25 and $100 and the lowest in the last 3 years was $23.00 and $90 and that came with a $3+/ hr bonus (that also paid overtime!) And I work as much as I want and sometimes more. A whole lot more than 90 days/year. If I had to work all year for 64k (even with perdiem) I don't think I would do it unless it was my only choice.

Someone with 25+ years can do very well in the commercial field. I am not trying to talk anyone out of working for the DOE, but you don't have to paint a bleak picture of the other side of the fence. To each his own. I am glad you get to spend time with your family and that you like the steady work. I just took a job that will be long term and I will find it hard to give up my summers off and the occasional week or two between outages. But, I couldn't pass up the money. And southern Florida doesn't seem so bad right now (check with me again in September).

The bottom line is that there is plenty of whatever kind of work you are looking for, if you are willing to work and you do a good job. What works for some doesn't for others and I think that is just right. Everyone has different needs and wants, likes and dislikes. I can't see frisking dirt all day, even if it is easy. (Yes, I know that not all DOE jobs are firsking dirt all day.) That is just me. Doesn't mean it is bad or that I would never do it, just that I like what I am doing now. DOE is not for everyone. Neither is commercial power.

[Melrose]

Quoted from 'BeerCourt'
"In no case does a tech get to choose what job he works unless the company gives him the choice.  (ex. two or more plants ask for the same tech at the same time)  Refusal of an assignment can lead to disciplinary action just like it does for the rest of the working world."


Man, I gotta difffer with you on that one.  The contractors responsiblilty is to submit my resume where I request to have it submitted.  At no time have I ever gone where I was "told" to go.  Not that I have refused, I have simply never been ordered to go anywhere.  If I ever received a call from anyone telling me that I couldn't go where I wanted, but had to go where someone else wanted, I'd laugh at 'em and tell them to kiss my ass.
If they want to hire me full time, pay my benefits, at least match my 401K and give me holidays - then and only then can they suggest where I need to go.

I offer my services, they don't offer my services.

A couple of times I have "chosen" where I would like to go and because of situations arising have been forced to bail, by my own choice.  No diciplinary actions involved.  In fact, I went right to work... where I wanted to work.  With the same company.

The common denominator here is "choice".  We all have choices, and can choose of our own mind.  None of us are at the mercy of any soul other than our own.  To think otherwise is to surrender your will, your freedom of choice.

Let your contractor know that you'll go anywhere, at any cost, and he'll be bitch-slappin' you on the corner, pimpin' you out to whomever he likes.

Stick to your guns and they'll never be taken from you.

 

[Already Gone]

I know how you feel Melrose.  I enjoy a lot of the freedom that comes with the carnie lifestyle.  But, there is a trade-off that comes with that.  The Lone-Wolf mentality of roadies is probably the biggest reason for the low wages, per-diem, and benefit packages.  If you want top dollar, you have to show a little concern for the team. 

At the moment, we have what is just the opposite of collective bargaining.  All the plants have figured out what the lowest common denominator is where money is concerned.  They, working together, have determined the price of our time as well as how much of it they want to buy.  Meanwhile, we individuals, are powerless to oppose them.  They present a unified front; we have nobody on our side.  They can choose the techs they want; we can only choose to work or not work - to get paid or not get paid.  They don't have to "divide and conquer".  We have divided (and therefore conquered) ourselves.  If you can be content with the pyrrhic victory that results from withholding services, I'm happy for you.  But while you're celebrating the fact that you took a stand for individualism, I'll be looking for a job that pays better and more often.  Good luck to both of us!

[Melrose]

I know how you feel Melrose.  I enjoy a lot of the freedom that comes with the carnie lifestyle.  But, there is a trade-off that comes with that.  The Lone-Wolf mentality of roadies is probably the biggest reason for the low wages, per-diem, and benefit packages.  If you want top dollar, you have to show a little concern for the team. 

At the moment, we have what is just the opposite of collective bargaining.  All the plants have figured out what the lowest common denominator is where money is concerned.  They, working together, have determined the price of our time as well as how much of it they want to buy.  Meanwhile, we individuals, are powerless to oppose them.  They present a unified front; we have nobody on our side.  They can choose the techs they want; we can only choose to work or not work - to get paid or not get paid.  They don't have to "divide and conquer".  We have divided (and therefore conquered) ourselves.  If you can be content with the pyrrhic victory that results from withholding services, I'm happy for you.  But while you're celebrating the fact that you took a stand for individualism, I'll be looking for a job that pays better and more often.  Good luck to both of us!

You are absolutely right in what you're saying above.  I can't wait until Mark gets me working with him. 
In reply to your last post.....
My point was and is still, that the contractor's responsibility lies not in telling a worker where they will go, but in submitting that woker's resume to the facility he chooses.  Now it's the faciclitie's choice.

take care, nice talking

[RDTroja]

I can't believe that anyone buys into the idea that the plants all work together to set "the price of our time". The plants can get downright cutthroat with each other to make sure their outages are staffed. Do they want to do it at the lowest cost possible? Of course... that is not only their job, but they have a fiscal responsibility to their shareholders to do exactly that. They even bargain with each other when they are sharing techs between plants, even within the same utility. All they care about is staffing and saving. If they had gotten together, they would all pay about the same... and this is not even close to the case. I choose not to work at the plant where I have the most experience and is 15 minutes from my house because the pay is too low (and of course there is the perdiem thing).

Most plants are turning away from hand picking the people they want... the co-employment issues are forcing them to back away from making specific requests. I am sure some let the staffing company know their desires, but requesting techs is getting rarer these days (Correct me if I am wrong, Eric B.)

I, like Melrose, have had a good track record of working where I want to go. I have had specific requests to go to certain sites, but when I have declined it cost me nothing. And there have been very few cases (can only think of one off the top of my head) where I did not get to go to the plant I wanted. I tend to pick the plants that fit into my schedule and pay the best, and so far it has worked very well. If we al pick the higher paying plants and the lower paying ones get short staffed, maybe things will change a little. Maybe not.

This site is full of threads that talk about the inability of techs to unite to improve their positions. Mostly people talk about how divided we are and how 'the others' are making it impossible to get what we want by selling out. The simple fact of the matter is we can't agree becasue we are all looking for something different. To some it is all about the money, to others it is time at home (i.e. with their families), to still others it is about going to places that are comfortable or familiar to them, some go to plants where they can be a supervisor... there are as many reasons as individuals. This industry has always been the home of the maverick, and it will continue to be. I think that is part of what makes it work. I have met an amazing variety of people in the rent-a-tech field -- some I like and some I don't -- and that is part of the charm. I have never been poor working in nuclear plants, and there have only been rare times where I felt poorly used. I don't go back to those places. It is all a matter of personal choice. and I like that very much.

[Radwraith]

BC:

You and I both worked at the last Millstone U-2 outage. I remember that dureing the little game of "Survivor" towards the end we were both pleasantly surprised about the fact that the Utility seemed to pick on merit. Since that is a rarity in this day and age I can't say that the Idea of differing pay scales based on performance is a good one. As has been said before, That is often MUCH too subjective! I do believe that the payscale should have higher tiers beyond 3.1 >7yrs (When they have that!). I also agree that we should be paid one uniform paycale from our employer not from site to site. I also believe in the Idea of an offsite training program for both Jr's and Sr's. Most of the big craft shops like Framatome and Westinghouse do it with their people already and I've often wondered why we don't . After all.. I'm sure most would agree that this type of continuing training would serve us much better then saying that the NUF "Represents our continueing training".

[HighRadRanger]

OK! OK! I think I got it. Listen and listen good maybe this would solve the problem. Why should we work for less then a house tech? Wy not hold out till we make even wages no matter were we are and Gov. allowable diem for the area were in? You know if your in a N.E plant and house tech's make 30.00 why can't we along with Gov MAX diem? The same goes for the South if there making 24.00 why can't we.Oh and while were at it lets throw in 5.00 and hr. for health and welfare.You have Ins. paid for. Thata not asking to much is it?

[volfireman07]

Is there a union for HP, IH, environmental, safety type people only?  It seems that if everyone working outages and the permanent duty people belonged, the wage and benefit issue would be taken care of.

[RDTroja]

Is there a union for HP, IH, environmental, safety type people only? It seems that if everyone working outages and the permanent duty people belonged, the wage and benefit issue would be taken care of.

No, there is not and it is a subject that has been hashed, rehashed, and flogged ad nauseum in this forum (and I am sure others). The permanent duty ('house') HPs belong to whatever union represents the workforce where they work (if any). The contractors have none... unless you count the plants that insist that the contractors join the local union for the duration of employment there. It has been tried and failed for more reasons than I can list here. Try a site search with the words 'hold out' if you want some insight.