Looking for some criticism

[GLW]

So just to clarify this, you guys are ok with them not even sticking to the 24 week requirement anymore? Because while I am sure we can literally train anyone to operate in these plants, and yes I know "equivalent Co-60" is stupid and it actually confuses more people coming in that it helps. There are those times where intelligence actually matters and I feel like the fact that we drag people kicking and screaming to their boards is really wrong....

[spupower]

Do you have any data to back up anecdotal claims on the trend of lowering standards in prototype in the last 10 years (attrition rate, GPA, ASVAB scores and high school GPA before entering the program)? Any data on the effects of sending supposedly lower quality nukes to the fleet (unplanned losses, number of incident reports per year, number of sailors who fail to qualify senior in rate in 18 months, longer maintenance availability accomplishment times, etc)?

Because until you have that data, you're just talking out of your ass.

Also, I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news on your last 3 years of shore duty, but the DoD isn't exactly being given a blank check. If keeping a baby nuke around 2 weeks longer to qualify is cheaper than sending him home and replacing him with someone else from day one, and keeping him around won't cause any negative consequences in the fleet at a higher rate, then why should the Navy de-nuke him?

I dont know the classification of the data you mention and I dont want to pull a Snowden. It would be cheaper to extend them but if they haven't qualified by their date they are a lazy shit and no one has any faith in them. I doubt they succeed outside of our VERY accommodating training command. If staff at prototype say drops someone we don't just want less work we legitimately have tried every alternative and they are not fit for the job.

you need to find yourself a girl mate

[BuddyThePug]

I dont know the classification of the data you mention and I dont want to pull a Snowden.

+1 for respecting OPSEC

It would be cheaper to extend them but if they haven't qualified by their date they are a lazy shit and no one has any faith in them.

Nubs qualify at different learning speeds....remember why Power School has a dozen or more "sections" ? Yes, the proto time needs to be limited, but I doubt anyone can say there is data to prove 8 months would be excessive vs. the current time limit (which was determined by hard-core old-school guys with buzzcuts and sliderules while your folks were still watching cartoons, btw)

I doubt they succeed outside of our VERY accommodating training command.

Then it becomes the Fleet's problem. As a professional, you should find it shameful that the Fleet is sent anything but the best.

If staff at prototype say drops someone we don't just want less work we legitimately have tried every alternative and they are not fit for the job.

Agree...but by now you have likely figured that Big Navy wants to fill quotas of every hue, gender, World of Warcraft skillz and bunkmate preference in Nuclear, so dropping all those snowflakes that become an avalanche makes YOU the problem for being a duplex strainer vice pump. The root cause of that dichotomy, IMHO, can be traced back to 'Laurel and Hardy' (that's another lookup, shipmate! )

[spekkio]

I dont know the classification of the data you mention...

 It's really simple -- you look at the bolded (and possibly colored) lettering in the top/bottom margin of the page/slide you are viewing.

If you don't know, it means you haven't seen it.

I doubt they succeed outside of our VERY accommodating training command.

Yea, I remember how 'accomodating' the staff at prototype really was. When MARF was behind thanks to a training hold, guess how many instructors stayed during plus-hours to give students checkouts and ensure they graduated on time? Guess how many instructors would even give you the time of day if you weren't in their section? I had to show up to work 45 minutes early because if I wasn't in the top 3 on the checkout list, I wasn't going to get one. Gotta get those smoke breaks in. The only saving grace is that as an officer they let you flex hours, but if I were an enlisted student then being called 'lazy' for not spending an extra hour at work to work around lazy staff members would have pissed me off.

Group study is allowed at prototype if supervised by a staff member. Despite the proven benefits of group study, guess how many staff members would volunteer to sit in a group study room when I was at prototype? Guess how many instructors were willing to sit in the maneuvering mockup to assist casualty gundrills?

But some jackass E-5 always made sure to shout "NO TALKING IN THE TRAINING AREA" at the top of his lungs every 15 minutes. That was much less distracting than the guy I couldn't hear whispering 2 rows over.

The biggest immediate difference I saw between prototype and the boat was that people on the boat actually cared if you qualified and went out of their way to help you. I seriously doubt that there was a 'prompt jump' culture shift there that has changed that.

PS: The only TRACOMs you know are A-school, NNPS, and NPTU. So how do you know that NPTU is 'very accomodating?'

[spupower]

 It's really simple -- you look at the bolded (and possibly colored) lettering in the top/bottom margin of the page/slide you are viewing.

If you don't know, it means you haven't seen it.

As it turns out its not that simple, because if it doesn't have markings it is still Nuclear-Unclassified, which is still not to be discussed, I can just tell you haven't actually read the security manual, .

 Yea, I remember how 'accomodating' the staff at prototype really was. When MARF was behind thanks to a training hold, guess how many instructors stayed during plus-hours to give students checkouts and ensure they graduated on time? Guess how many instructors would even give you the time of day if you weren't in their section? I had to show up to work 45 minutes early because if I wasn't in the top 3 on the checkout list, I wasn't going to get one. Gotta get those smoke breaks in. The only saving grace is that as an officer they let you flex hours, but if I were an enlisted student then being called 'lazy' for not spending an extra hour at work to work around lazy staff members would have pissed me off.

well then, you haven't been to proototype in a while, most staff work a minimum of 10 hours. it is very common to stay late to get long checkouts done. The married guys dont see their families on working days usually. It also turns out if you have a personality even the "lazy" staff will go out of their way to help you

Group study is allowed at prototype if supervised by a staff member. Despite the proven benefits of group study, guess how many staff members would volunteer to sit in a group study room when I was at prototype? Guess how many instructors were willing to sit in the maneuvering mockup to assist casualty gundrills?

so... yeah you definitely haven't been to prototype in a while, group study is allowed it is just limited to small groups

But some jackass E-5 always made sure to shout "NO TALKING IN THE TRAINING AREA" at the top of his lungs every 15 minutes. That was much less distracting than the guy I couldn't hear whispering 2 rows over.

If we yell at someone for talking, it is in an office, so as not to disturb anyone else, and if you talk in the training area, you do get yelled at

The biggest immediate difference I saw between prototype and the boat was that people on the boat actually cared if you qualified and went out of their way to help you. I seriously doubt that there was a 'prompt jump' culture shift there that has changed that.

Once again, you clearly havent been to prototype in a while, just today a chief came and asked me (I am in charge of divisional training) how I am limiting my students, not why they are not doing their job. The expectation is that I stay late and do runtime until they catch the curve.

PS: The only TRACOMs you know are A-school, NNPS, and NPTU. So how do you know that NPTU is 'very accomodating?'

1. you forgot bootcamp
    2. because we literally are not allowed to close doors due to some student saying opening a door is intimidating
    3. because we CAN'T EVEN CLOSE DOORS because it made ONE STUDENT feel uncomfortable
    4. because I have literally been assigned to a student (like a watch) to one on one guide them through quals.

[BuddyThePug]

PS: The only TRACOMs you know are A-school, NNPS, and NPTU. So how do you know that NPTU is 'very accomodating?'

1. you forgot bootcamp
    2. because we literally are not allowed to close doors due to some student saying opening a door is intimidating
    3. because we CAN'T EVEN CLOSE DOORS because it made ONE STUDENT feel uncomfortable
    4. because I have literally been assigned to a student (like a watch) to one on one guide them through quals.

I agree with you here spu....more bleach needs to be added to the gene pool at Boot and A School to weed out the panic attacks and sad pandas at the cost-effective earliest opportunity. Gee, I wonder if being at MOPP 4 for hours during real GQ will crush their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeling s ?!?

"Sorry Chief, I can't use this lockwire...it isn't certified Vegan and cruelty-free"  

[leavingreality]

To the OP,

You're going to have to swallow a very hard and bitter pill for nuclear Navy types to swallow. This is even more important for a staff pick-up. Not only have you been told for two years that you are the best and the brightest that the Navy has to offer, you've been told that you are the best of THAT bunch, too. I would think a couple years as a staff pick-up would clear you up from those delusions, but apparently not.

The fact of the matter is, you're a nobody right now. Your opinion means nothing to the Navy. They don't want it. You're a low-level trainer with no practical experience complaining that we're letting the Navy down. How would you know?

You're also in the military and as has already been pointed out, it's not very wise to be griping about the military in a public forum online. You may not see it as such, but I'm flinching at the potential damage you are doing right now to your career.

They are paying you a lot of money to do exactly what you're told. You took an oath to do exactly what you're told. Preferably without complaining. Until the time that you get to the place where you're setting policy, I promise you that's exactly what they want you to do. Give solid, uncomplaining advice if asked. Otherwise just keep quiet and deal with the apparent goofiness of the system. You'll be much happier in your job and people will think much more highly of you.

I spent eleven years in the Navy and it took me about 9 to figure that out. It was a waste of time. And if you decide that you really think the Navy is out of their mind and not right for you, training experience is priceless when you go to apply for jobs in the civilian world. Finish your degree and you'll be a shoe-in for any supervisor job you want.

[spekkio]

Stuff...

You have a stupid answer for everything, don't you?

-Nuclear-Unclass refers to Naval Nuclear Propulsion. Manning is a different set of worms. I've been to manning briefs, one given by the VCNO. Seen all sorts of [unclassified] slides about retention, quality of assessions, etc. And based on what I've seen and what you're saying, you're talking out of your ass. But I will be happy to go read whatever it is you're reading that says otherwise. I'll even go hunt for it on SIPR, because I'm genuinely curious. After all, the VCNO told us less than 6 months ago that changes to the retirement are in the works but they won't affect current AD personnel, so he's not infallable.

-I suspect staff stays late because they are either directly ordered to or are threatened with punitive action if students fall behind -- things that didn't happen when I was there. You also missed the point about group study. The 'accomodating' staff you refer to could not be bothered with doing their jobs to assist students at a time where the command was severely behind. The command climate you work in now is a result of that attitude. The staff's arm is being twisted to help students because it has proven that it won't if left to its own discretion. Would you continue to work 10+ hour days if your LCPO wasn't up your ass about your students? My guess is no, considering you feel strong enough about your students' lack of work ethic to post a rant on the internet.

And this line:

It also turns out if you have a personality even the "lazy" staff will go out of their way to help you

at least shows the attitude toward lack of personal accountability still resides with the staff there. Are you telling me that you have to like a student to do your job?

-Of course I've been out of prototype for a while, you asked for someone with fleet experience to give you his opinion. My opinion is that you don't know what you're talking about and you are using anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions about what is good for the Navy. Trust the system, work at sea for a few years, and then you can tell us if you still think that prototype is producing sailors capable of functioning in the fleet.

I will leave you with this little bit of advice, although I suspect you'll ignore it anyway:

Here's something lost on a lot of nukes. You're a non-commissioned officer in the United States Navy. You're supposed to be a leader. That means you may have to work long hours and you take accountability for your men's failures. It's YOUR responsibility to instill proper work ethic in students who haven't ever worked hard for anything in their lives before. That's the price of having 2 stripes and the honor of being on instructor duty with no fleet experience. You'll be ahead of the game when you can proactively determine who your problem guys will be and bring this to your LCPO's attention early and recommend a plan of action instead of reactively do what your LCPO tells you to do when a guy is way behind.

[ChiefRocscooter]

You have a stupid answer for everything, don't you?

-Nuclear-Unclass refers to Naval Nuclear Propulsion. Manning is a different set of worms. I've been to manning briefs, one given by the VCNO. Seen all sorts of [unclassified] slides about retention, quality of assessions, etc. And based on what I've seen and what you're saying, you're talking out of your ass. But I will be happy to go read whatever it is you're reading that says otherwise. I'll even go hunt for it on SIPR, because I'm genuinely curious. After all, the VCNO told us less than 6 months ago that changes to the retirement are in the works but they won't affect current AD personnel, so he's not infallable.

-I suspect staff stays late because they are either directly ordered to or are threatened with punitive action if students fall behind -- things that didn't happen when I was there. You also missed the point about group study. The 'accomodating' staff you refer to could not be bothered with doing their jobs to assist students at a time where the command was severely behind. The command climate you work in now is a result of that attitude. The staff's arm is being twisted to help students because it has proven that it won't if left to its own discretion. Would you continue to work 10+ hour days if your LCPO wasn't up your ass about your students? My guess is no, considering you feel strong enough about your students' lack of work ethic to post a rant on the internet.

And this line:
 at least shows the attitude toward lack of personal accountability still resides with the staff there. Are you telling me that you have to like a student to do your job?

-Of course I've been out of prototype for a while, you asked for someone with fleet experience to give you his opinion. My opinion is that you don't know what you're talking about and you are using anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions about what is good for the Navy. Trust the system, work at sea for a few years, and then you can tell us if you still think that prototype is producing sailors capable of functioning in the fleet.

I will leave you with this little bit of advice, although I suspect you'll ignore it anyway:

Here's something lost on a lot of nukes. You're a non-commissioned officer in the United States Navy. You're supposed to be a leader. That means you may have to work long hours and you take accountability for your men's failures. It's YOUR responsibility to instill proper work ethic in students who haven't ever worked hard for anything in their lives before. That's the price of having 2 stripes and the honor of being on instructor duty with no fleet experience. You'll be ahead of the game when you can proactively determine who your problem guys will be and bring this to your LCPO's attention early and recommend a plan of action instead of reactively do what your LCPO tells you to do when a guy is way behind.

When you ask for criticism around here you get it, and then some!  What you may not realize it that you just got told twice (more if you read them all carefully) you have no idea what the "real" world is like!  Yes it is a bitter pill to swallow but the sooner you do the sooner you can get on to learning what it means to be a leader.  Heck your a Navy Nuke and I can tell you for a fact that you have no idea what the "Navy" is all about,  most Nuke do their 6-10 years and never really find out anything about the Navy that is not NUKE world related.

Look at it this way you are just like a teacher aide in high school, yea you got an A in AP whatever and now your helping the Freshman and sophomore.  That does not mean you are ready to rewrite the lesson plans and tests!  I'll say it again;  Do your best to help your sailors and you will be able to hold your head high and be proud of what you did.

[SpaceJustice]

Look at it this way you are just like a teacher aide in high school, yea you got an A in AP whatever and now your helping the Freshman and sophomore.  That does not mean you are ready to rewrite the lesson plans and tests!  I'll say it again;  Do your best to help your sailors and you will be able to hold your head high and be proud of what you did.

Great analogy.

I was at MARF as an enlisted student during the administrative recovery from the CWI fiasco (i.e. everyone was disqualified pending corrective actions).  There were some great SPUs out there who helped keep me motivated and taught me a lot.  I met a couple of them back out in the fleet, which was interesting considering I was the one now signing their qual cards.  I wanted to make it a point to call out the people doing it right, because there were a significant number of them doing it wrong.  Prototype has a large number of disgruntled individuals both SPU and Sea returnee alike, probably because prototype is not the "dream" shore billet for a lot of people.  I will be the first to admit that I was not the best student at prototype (I fixed that in the fleet), but you can only ask the staff who aren't busy for a checkout only to be told to F off so many times before it starts affecting you.  Sure you need thick skin in this job, but as a student having authority figures behave that way is very disheartening.  Hopefully the environment has improved.  I agree that it is ridiculous to not be able to shut doors, that is excessive.  But something happened to make the students uncomfortable approaching the staff at some point, I doubt the policy was adopted based on an isolated complaint.  Looking at this objectively, we got some people who struggled in the pipeline on my boat in my division.  Some excelled and some we had to get rid of, lack of success in the pipeline doesn't always equate to failure in the fleet.

[Chimera]

Two more cents worth:

I'm reasonably convinced that the real purpose of prototype is to teach the new nukes how to take the schooling they had before they arrived at prototype and use it to learn how to properly qualify on their watch stations once they arrive in the fleet.  Yeah, I was a "hot runner" RO candidate at prototype but my general attitude didn't turn around until I arrived in the fleet.  I had to learn how to apply the "skills" I was taught at prototype to the real function of becoming a qualified watch stander in the fleet.  I learned more - both theory and operations - once I became a watch stander than I did along the way in nuke school and prototype.  The main reason I learned was because of the mentoring of my senior watch standers and my LPOs.  Lets face it - your students won't see much of the same equipment once they get into the fleet.  The real skill set you should be enculcating into their pliable skulls full of mush is how to apply what they are learning to their watch standing.  That's what will help them the most once they get to the fleet.  I knew too many sailors that had all the theoretical knowledge but weren't sure which way to turn the wrench.

[nspunx4]

Why does the navy use trainers who have no practical experience on a sub/ship? Why not use sailors with actual operating experience? I'm not trying to be a smart @ss as I am sure there is a reason.

[spekkio]

I'm reasonably convinced that the real purpose of prototype is to teach the new nukes how to take the schooling they had before they arrived at prototype and use it to learn how to properly qualify on their watch stations once they arrive in the fleet

They were conceived to be dual purpose -- test out new technology in an age before modern computers could model plant conditions accurately enough, and conveniently also train new operators on a real plant.

Personally, I think they've outlived their usefulness as both and it's a really expensive way to teach sailors the mechanics of Navy qualifications. But it was aptly said earlier -- you can't fix NNP, it ain't broke.

[ridgerunner61]

To SPUPOWER

I was also a SPU at Idaho class 8205. I was lead to believe that I was in the top 1% of the Top 1% of the Navy. Sounds great until you discover that you are the top 1% of the top 1% of the US population that couldn't find a job after high school.

Remember that you volunteered for this do you best at the end of the day you have to live with yourself.

[Chimera]

They were conceived to be dual purpose -- test out new technology in an age before modern computers could model plant conditions accurately enough, and conveniently also train new operators on a real plant.

Personally, I think they've outlived their usefulness as both and it's a really expensive way to teach sailors the mechanics of Navy qualifications. But it was aptly said earlier -- you can't fix NNP, it ain't broke.

I was looking at the training issues as they relate to the baby nukes going through the program.  However, as an alumnus of both 5G and 7G, I agree completely with your comment about being test beds for new equipment and ideas.

[GLW]

....I was also a SPU at Idaho class 8205. I was lead to believe that I was in the top 1% of the Top 1% of the Navy.......

[spupower]

You have a stupid answer for everything, don't you?

I can if you want me to

-Nuclear-Unclass refers to Naval Nuclear Propulsion. Manning is a different set of worms. I've been to manning briefs, one given by the VCNO. Seen all sorts of [unclassified] slides about retention, quality of assessions, etc. And based on what I've seen and what you're saying, you're talking out of your ass. But I will be happy to go read whatever it is you're reading that says otherwise. I'll even go hunt for it on SIPR, because I'm genuinely curious. After all, the VCNO told us less than 6 months ago that changes to the retirement are in the works but they won't affect current AD personnel, so he's not infallable.

Hmmm the VCNO didn't post those retention numbers on this forum though.


-I suspect staff stays late because they are either directly ordered to or are threatened with punitive action if students fall behind -- things that didn't happen when I was there. You also missed the point about group study. The 'accomodating' staff you refer to could not be bothered with doing their jobs to assist students at a time where the command was severely behind. The command climate you work in now is a result of that attitude. The staff's arm is being twisted to help students because it has proven that it won't if left to its own discretion. Would you continue to work 10+ hour days if your LCPO wasn't up your ass about your students? My guess is no, considering you feel strong enough about your students' lack of work ethic to post a rant on the internet.

No one orders us to stay late. No one threatens us to stay late. There is no negative repercussions for not staying late. My LCPO is not up my ass about my students, neither is the Training Manager, whom I personally talk to on a weekly basis. Because he knows that my division and I are doing our job. The staff who stay late on a regular basis do so to manage to get all our work done in a day, and it is not a time management issue, it is almost entirely a workload issue.

And this line:
 at least shows the attitude toward lack of personal accountability still resides with the staff there. Are you telling me that you have to like a student to do your job?

You continue to attack the staff I work with, when you don't know any of them. I am telling you that when a student is showing effort and a willingness/aptitude to learn we will go out of our way to help them. If a student tries to tell me they were wronged in some way when they fail a test/board/watch, or they are smug or cocky or bitter, they can keep that to themselves, and I will not go out of my way for them. We will not brush students off for no reason though.

-Of course I've been out of prototype for a while, you asked for someone with fleet experience to give you his opinion. My opinion is that you don't know what you're talking about and you are using anecdotal evidence to draw conclusions about what is good for the Navy. Trust the system, work at sea for a few years, and then you can tell us if you still think that prototype is producing sailors capable of functioning in the fleet.

I have no idea how the fleet works, I told them in my staff interview that I feel like training students without sea experience is ineffective for both me and the students and I was still picked up

I will leave you with this little bit of advice, although I suspect you'll ignore it anyway:

Here's something lost on a lot of nukes. You're a non-commissioned officer in the United States Navy. You're supposed to be a leader. That means you may have to work long hours and you take accountability for your men's failures. It's YOUR responsibility to instill proper work ethic in students who haven't ever worked hard for anything in their lives before. That's the price of having 2 stripes and the honor of being on instructor duty with no fleet experience. You'll be ahead of the game when you can proactively determine who your problem guys will be and bring this to your LCPO's attention early and recommend a plan of action instead of reactively do what your LCPO tells you to do when a guy is way behind.

Nukes are not given rank because of qualities they posess, they are given rank in attempt to keep them in the program, because the bonus pools are only so big. While you may have to be above average to get picked up staff, I still dont feel it is an "honor", especially when it is forced on you. I am a second class who stands in for LPO of my division as needed, and manages training for the division, I am doing a job of a first class and I stand in for a job only sea returnee first classes do and my chief has confidence in my ability to do it. I mentor and develop my junior staff pickups and I help the sea returnees adjust when they show up. I figure out my student's problems and I make them confront them as much as I can in the short time I have. My LCPO provides backup like any good nuke but he is not intrusively guiding our division. Your statement is condescending and that makes it tough to take it as advice, more of a veiled and misguided insult.

I will leave you with this: If your time at prototype was the way you described, you should read above about avoiding students with a poor attitude. I would love constructive advice about how it is in the real navy but your continued jabs at me and my command are arrogant and plain wrong; you cant possibly begin to judge staff here after just qualifying as a student and getting thrown to a boat.

[spekkio]

According to your last post, everything is right with the world and working as it should. So what's the problem? Did you just come here to use this forum as your blog to complain about a rough day at work?

My advice was condescending because you, like many junior nukes, actually believe the following:

"Nukes are not given rank because of qualities they posess, they are given rank in attempt to keep them in the program, because the bonus pools are only so big. While you may have to be above average to get picked up staff, I still dont feel it is an "honor", especially when it is forced on you."

It is infuriating to me that a person in a position of leadership, such as yourself, can actually write that. Your uniform is not just representative of a paycheck, your rate is not 'given' to you, and no one 'forced' you to be a nuke. There are lots of Sailors in the fleet who worked their asses off to make E-5 and you casually dismiss it as a gift that you're entitled to in order to keep YOU in the Navy.

[GLW]

.................. There are lots of Sailors in the fleet who worked their asses off to make E-5 and you casually dismiss it as a gift that you're entitled to in order to keep YOU in the Navy.

AMEN and HALLELUJAH!!!!!

this former tin can sailor salutes that sentiment,....

on a personal perspective;

when I was eventually accepted into the NNPP from the conventional fleet I was bumped to E-4 after signing my 6YO contract,....

all through NPS I understood I was to comport myself as a PO3,...

the bozos who got masted for tossing the board erasers around and goofin' during study hours were miffed they were being busted for just blowing off some steam,...

I was surprised they were still in the program,...

peace,...GLW,...former MM1/SS-ELT,...(& gopher to the waterking),...

[spupower]

According to your last post, everything is right with the world and working as it should. So what's the problem? Did you just come here to use this forum as your blog to complain about a rough day at work?

My advice was condescending because you, like many junior nukes, actually believe the following:

"Nukes are not given rank because of qualities they posess, they are given rank in attempt to keep them in the program, because the bonus pools are only so big. While you may have to be above average to get picked up staff, I still dont feel it is an "honor", especially when it is forced on you."


It is infuriating to me that a person in a position of leadership, such as yourself, can actually write that. Your uniform is not just representative of a paycheck, your rate is not 'given' to you, and no one 'forced' you to be a nuke. There are lots of Sailors in the fleet who worked their asses off to make E-5 and you casually dismiss it as a gift that you're entitled to in order to keep YOU in the Navy.

It IS a fact, nukes do not rank up like conventionals. I am close to taking the E6 test, my recruiter was a first class when he recruited me, he is still a first class. He had to earn his rank and acts it, nukes earn rank because they are nukes. I earned my NEC, and I would argue to be a useful part of an engineering department you are operating at least at the level an E5 should be. That being said if you are a lazy ass you will still make first faster than the hardest trying conventional, regardless of if they actually deserve it. I find it surprising you would think I am wrong on that point.

[Marlin]

It IS a fact, nukes do not rank up like conventionals. I am close to taking the E6 test, my recruiter was a first class when he recruited me, he is still a first class. He had to earn his rank and acts it, nukes earn rank because they are nukes. I earned my NEC, and I would argue to be a useful part of an engineering department you are operating at least at the level an E5 should be. That being said if you are a lazy ass you will still make first faster than the hardest trying conventional, regardless of if they actually deserve it. I find it surprising you would think I am wrong on that point.

On a thread you titled "Looking for some criticism" you seem to have a very thin skin and are typing more than listening.

[GLW]

On a thread you titled "Looking for some criticism" you seem to have a very thin skin and are typing more than listening.

The original post was canvassing the forum for commiseration with the plight of the NNPP,...

not an invitation to critique the OP's assessment of that perceived plight,...

the OP stated this:

..........I have tried m best to shield my division from this but I can only do so much and I am worried when I leave the outside forces will crush my junior SPUs and they will just start passing everyone. I don't think we operate to Rickover's standards anymore and I think if he saw how we train he would shut us down.....

the NNPP has existed for six going into seven decades now, it has likely been around as long if not longer than the OP's grandparents,....

it takes a lot of hubris to conceive the notion that a program which has successfully done it's job for six plus decades may very well realize an epic fail after you leave prototype for the fleet,...

as stated earlier, it is good to see the "best of the best of the best" brainwash is still effective,...

as stated earlier, similar sentiments were hashed out on these very forums a decade before the OP was enlisted in the USN,...

as stated earlier, the OP "needs a girl mate",...

as stated earlier, the NNPP is doing what Big Navy needs it to do and those needs vary over the decades,...

as stated earlier, the OP has done well and should probably just do the best job he can, enjoy the fun of each new day and live happy as a padawan should, the path of Anakin Skywalker is an unhappy path,...

as stated before, "You can't fix the Navy, the Navy ain't broke",...

as not stated before, we've all seen the OP's meme before, sometimes it spreads ala USS Hartford, Memphis, et al, sometimes it fizzles, sometimes it sad pandas,...

either way and anyway, it's becoming a rarer commodity to see an OP come to these boards and type "thanks for the insight guys!, perhaps I'll look inwards and seek the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference",...

I blame the modern school system,..............and video games,....

[GLW]

we've all seen the OP's meme before,....

OBTW, I remembered to include a look up word for Higgs today,....

[GLW]

....either way and anyway, it's becoming a rarer commodity to see an OP come to these boards and type "thanks for the insight guys!, perhaps I'll look inwards and seek the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference",...

and yes, that sentiment includes changing the curmudgeons on these boards who may not be full of pats and hugs but who are typically right, typically sage, and when heeded, typically put out insight which can be very helpful with the listener's success should the listener be open to applying that insight to their individual circumstance,...

 

[Marlin]

The original post was canvassing the forum for commiseration with the plight of the NNPP,...

not an invitation to critique the OP's assessment of that perceived plight,...

Seriously???