Engineer, Technician, Operator? HELP!

[Higgs]

Mechanical, eh? Well, we shall see. From what I've seen in the NCSU course curriculum, I suppose there are a lot of "reactor design" oriented classes in the nuclear engineering degree track. Not something I want to get involved in. But I very much DO want to get involved in their Nuclear Reactor Training program since it offers the chance to do p/t work and the opportunity to take the operator license test by graduation time. I'm not sure if your degree has to be NE if you want to take that route, though.

Thank you, Mr. Moderator. I'm sorry if I'm causing any trouble/being a nuisance with my questions.

What is a "class" of NLO's? Do you just mean you hired on several, or that there's a training program/classes they have to take before starting?

I don't know what you mean by operator license test, but if you think you'll be getting a license to operate a power plant out of that, you will not.

You can get hired as NLO with a 2 year tech degree minimum. Most utilities diversify their hiring. If you're going to get an engineering degree, don't get a nuclear engineering degree if you want to work at a power plant. Mechanical or electrical engineering would be more valuable to you and the company. Nuclear engineering kind of pigeon holes you.

Justin

[Xenon_Free]

If you want to work at a nuclear power plant there are some "rules" that you should be aware of...

1.  Never, ever let anybody know what they said on a personal level bothers you.  (names like snowflake, nub, etc )
2.  Do not lose your cool - be it a forum thread or in the plant.  This is vital for an operator - I must count on you in even in the worst possible circumstances.
3.  If you want a job where you make a lot of money and let others do your work for you then you, with the right resume, *might* get the job by accident.  Know that we who work hard, and understand the plant, and answer the phone when the plant is calling for help, absolutely loathe people like that.  Work ethic and knowledge are your street cred.  Everybody knows the sh!tbags and detest them.
4.  Do work so others don't have to.  This is a life lesson - vital in nuclear power...and probably why this forum is filled with stuff like "Use the search"
5.  Take every response in this forum with a grain of salt.  BZ, while a jerk on the forum, is a funny dude and a very knowledgable individual - maybe not so good with people skills.  I worked with him so I am speaking from experience.  Good dude, not the nurturing type for non-quals or slackers.

XF

[HeavyD]

For the 2 new units we are building at Summer, we have a variety of backgrounds among our current 3 classes.  Several Midlands Tech graduates (2 yr degree), several previous NLOs, several engineer degreed folks, several ex-Navy nukes.  the one demographic we are short on is previously licensed operators.  If I recall correctly, our lead class has 2 previously licensed operators out of 24.

So there is some real time info about operator hiring.  Best of luck!

[Higgs]

For the 2 new units we are building at Summer, we have a variety of backgrounds among our current 3 classes.  Several Midlands Tech graduates (2 yr degree), several previous NLOs, several engineer degreed folks, several ex-Navy nukes.  the one demographic we are short on is previously licensed operators.  If I recall correctly, our lead class has 2 previously licensed operators out of 24.

So there is some real time info about operator hiring.  Best of luck!

That's because your company is cheap. Trust me, I know. Then again, when they can hire engineers and navy nukes for pennies on the dollar, why would they need to pay me more for my two licenses?


Justin

[GLW]

That's because your company is cheap. Trust me, I know. Then again, when they can hire engineers and navy nukes for pennies on the dollar, why would they need to pay me more for my two licenses?


Justin

ahhhhhh, but you cannot put a comprehensive price tag on the "sunshine bonus",...

no snow means no snow blower, no R-288 insulation throughout the house, no heat trace tapes for piping, no need for AWD or 4WD, no big heating bills 5 months per year, no blue stuff for the windshield wiper fluid reservoir,....

I can go on and on and on,....

at least that was part of the calculus I got once upon a time,...

and it does seem to bear out as time goes on,....

[HeavyD]

Smaller company, smaller pay.   

Our overall compensation isn't bad, plus the stuff GLW said does factor in as well, as well as the cost of living being lower here than other places I've lived.   

[Higgs]

Yes, but it doesn't factor into to the tune of what they expect previously licensed people to take.

But hey, to each their own. As long as one is happy with their pay, that is all that matter.

I was merely offering one possibility as to why they don't have previously licensed people in their new classes.

Justin

[HeavyD]

That's because your company is cheap. Trust me, I know. Then again, when they can hire engineers and navy nukes for pennies on the dollar, why would they need to pay me more for my two licenses?


Justin

I'm not saying they aren't 

I can say that OPS management understands why they haven't been able to attract more previously licensed folks.  Doesn't change the fact that more previously licensed folks would potentially make things easier during pre-op  and startup testing, as well as the transition to commercial operations.

[cheme09]

Mechanical, eh? Well, we shall see. From what I've seen in the NCSU course curriculum, I suppose there are a lot of "reactor design" oriented classes in the nuclear engineering degree track. Not something I want to get involved in. But I very much DO want to get involved in their Nuclear Reactor Training program since it offers the chance to do p/t work and the opportunity to take the operator license test by graduation time. I'm not sure if your degree has to be NE if you want to take that route, though.

Thank you, Mr. Moderator. I'm sorry if I'm causing any trouble/being a nuisance with my questions.

What is a "class" of NLO's? Do you just mean you hired on several, or that there's a training program/classes they have to take before starting?

Man, you are pretty clueless. Have you looked at the ACAD? Or even searched the career path of NLO > RO > SRO?

Yes, NLO's are usually hired as a class. You'll learn all about the plant and you obtain the requisite knowlege to stand watch. If you look at the ACAD you'll see that to meet the requirements for a licensce class, you need to have a certain number of years experience as a FULLY QUALIFIED NLO. The general idea is that you'll be "fully qualified" once you complete all the quals which means you've completed the NLO training program.

As for the licence you keep refering to at NC State. This is not an operating licencse for a commercial nuclear reactor. Just from the info you've provided, it sounds like an operating license for a research reactor, which will mean little to nothing on the commercial side. It will most likely only be available to NE majors.

Do you realize what a nuclear engineering degree is used for?  Of course it would have courses for reactor design. Like I said in my first reply to this thread, you need to figure out what you want or at least do a little preliminary research. You're asking questions that are too vague.

[Duke Nukem]

As for the licence you keep refering to at NC State. This is not an operating licencse for a commercial nuclear reactor. Just from the info you've provided, it sounds like an operating license for a research reactor, which will mean little to nothing on the commercial side. It will most likely only be available to NE majors.

Do you realize what a nuclear engineering degree is used for?  Of course it would have courses for reactor design. Like I said in my first reply to this thread, you need to figure out what you want or at least do a little preliminary research. You're asking questions that are too vague.

Asking vague questions is the path to asking specific questions. Or so Confucius say...

Anyway, based on this...

http://www.ne.ncsu.edu/nrp/training.html

It doesn't look like the school page makes a distinction between a research reactor operator's license and a commercial reactor operator's license. But if you're saying there's a difference, I'll take your word for it. The program looks as though it prepares people for work as ROs once they earn their degree (NE or otherwise). Every person on the list has RO next to their name as well as a license number from the NRC.

As to what an NE is for, I assumed it was a good degree to have for work at a power plant, given that you would learn about how the plant functions, and not simply have the NE degree be a pipeline for grad school and a lifetime of research work in a lab trying to create fusion. Surely there are operators (licensed or non licensed) who are hired at power plants who have NE degrees. I know plants hire a variety of engineers from different disciplines, but I can't imagine the majority of people with degrees who work as NLOs and ROs have degrees in something other than NE. Given the insight into Nuclear energy that's gained via a degree in NE, I'd figure that would be the best choice for people wanting to work as NLOs and ROs. But if that's really not the way it is, by all means enlighten me.

I don't know what you mean by operator license test, but if you think you'll be getting a license to operate a power plant out of that, you will not.

If you're going to get an engineering degree, don't get a nuclear engineering degree if you want to work at a power plant. Mechanical or electrical engineering would be more valuable to you and the company. Nuclear engineering kind of pigeon holes you.

Justin

To be honest, I don't really care that much about working with the mechanical/electrical aspects of the plant. If an NE degree didn't get me a job as an NLO or actual engineer at a plant, I'd be interested in the world of nuclear research such as Thorium, 4th-Gen, small-reactor, etc.



Forgive my pig-ignorance, but since everyone now seems to be chiming in about how I should get a degree in mechanical engineering for work at a power plant (regardless of what specific job I go into), perhaps someone with a NUCLEAR engineering degree could enlighten me as to whether or not there's any hope for actually getting work at a plant at all... or even just tell me what getting an NE degree is good for. The class lists for NE all show things like radiation, safety, reactor design, heat transfer, fluid systems, etc.

Based on these course descriptions at NCSU...

http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/reg_records/crs_cat/NE.html

Or at least roughly NE-100 through NE-500 for a bachelor's degree, the courses seem to involve overviews/details of how various systems at different kinds of nuclear power plants work. They don't seem geared so heavily towards design and research topics like fusion. So what's the deal? Surely an NE degree would be just as valid for NLO/RO as a mechanical engineering degree, if not more-so, considering the curriculum involved in each degree?

[fiveeleven]

A NE degree is a valuable addition to your resume for some jobs, not so valuable for others. In the Operations world you would be a good candidate for a Shift Technical Adviser, but you will still have to successfully complete the plants license training program be it the full blown version or a "fast track" version. You would be a great candidate in the Engineering Dept. as a Reactor Engineer, of which at an operating plant there are probably 2-3/unit of these. As with most technically oriented positions at an operating plant, you will always be competing against people that have experience at whatever discipline you choose along with their education/degree/related technical training. A great example of this is the recent trend in the Radiation Protection arena,(which as of today I have personally participated in for 30 yrs. post USN) of the mass influx of 2 yr. associate degree people from the many technical colleges mostly nearby an operating commercial plant, that are not garnering the same employment opportunities that the educational facility may have led then to believe that they would. Even a 1-2 yr. step-off pad Junior RPT will more than likely get the blue-hat ahead of a recently graduated tech school junior.               MM2/ELT USS Nimitz 1980-1984.BOHICA

[s14newb]

Forgive my pig-ignorance, but since everyone now seems to be chiming in about how I should get a degree in mechanical engineering for work at a power plant (regardless of what specific job I go into), perhaps someone with a NUCLEAR engineering degree could enlighten me as to whether or not there's any hope for actually getting work at a plant at all... or even just tell me what getting an NE degree is good for. The class lists for NE all show things like radiation, safety, reactor design, heat transfer, fluid systems, etc.

I have a bachelors in nuclear engineering.  I was just hired as an NLO.  So yeah its not a bad degree to get if you want to pursue that route. BUT, I don't think that's what everyone is trying to tell you. They are trying to show you that there are better fitting degrees and these other degrees don't limit your opportunity as much as an NE degree does. Honestly a ME or EE degree is a better fit for the operator role. A lot of my courses dealt with what happens in the core.  An operator is running the plant though, the reactor is a very small part of the whole process.

But from what you said you are also interested in research.  This is very different then pursuing an operator position.  My advice is to spend more time researching what you actually want to do.  And to also look into double majoring in NE and ME. I know some schools offer it as a five year program and looking back I feel dumb for not taking advantage. 

With that being said, take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Like I said, I was just hired.  On the other hand, I would spend some more time on this forum and read what others have said.  They'll tell you how the nuke industry really works and what they say is much more valuable then what a university who is trying to sell their program says in most if not all cases.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

As to what an NE is for, I assumed it was a good degree to have for work at a power plant, given that you would learn about how the plant functions, and not simply have the NE degree be a pipeline for grad school and a lifetime of research work in a lab trying to create fusion. Surely there are operators (licensed or non licensed) who are hired at power plants who have NE degrees. I know plants hire a variety of engineers from different disciplines, but I can't imagine the majority of people with degrees who work as NLOs and ROs have degrees in something other than NE. Given the insight into Nuclear energy that's gained via a degree in NE, I'd figure that would be the best choice for people wanting to work as NLOs and ROs. But if that's really not the way it is, by all means enlighten me.

To be honest, I don't really care that much about working with the mechanical/electrical aspects of the plant. If an NE degree didn't get me a job as an NLO or actual engineer at a plant, I'd be interested in the world of nuclear research such as Thorium, 4th-Gen, small-reactor, etc.

I have a masters degree in nuclear engineering (bachelors in chemical) and don't know a single person working on fusion. There is a ton of research work going on on the fission side of the nuclear energy spectrum. Fusion work is a very small group since there is minimal funding for fusion research. By the way, I am an engineer at a nuke plant and in my training class there were engineering physics graduates, automotive engineer graduates, civil engineer graduates, electrical engineer graduates, mechanical engineer graduates, and nuclear engineering graduates. NE grads were not the majority and there is even a school near by that pumps them out.

Also, you should care about working with the mechanical/electrical aspect of the plant since an operator is mostly working with that stuff. As s14newb pointed out, the core is but a small portion of what an operator deals with.

Forgive my pig-ignorance, but since everyone now seems to be chiming in about how I should get a degree in mechanical engineering for work at a power plant (regardless of what specific job I go into), perhaps someone with a NUCLEAR engineering degree could enlighten me as to whether or not there's any hope for actually getting work at a plant at all... or even just tell me what getting an NE degree is good for. The class lists for NE all show things like radiation, safety, reactor design, heat transfer, fluid systems, etc.

Based on these course descriptions at NCSU...

http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/reg_records/crs_cat/NE.html

Or at least roughly NE-100 through NE-500 for a bachelor's degree, the courses seem to involve overviews/details of how various systems at different kinds of nuclear power plants work. They don't seem geared so heavily towards design and research topics like fusion. So what's the deal? Surely an NE degree would be just as valid for NLO/RO as a mechanical engineering degree, if not more-so, considering the curriculum involved in each degree?

Here is an interesting link (http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2014/03/26/where-are-nuclear-engineering-graduates-going-to-work/) I just saw pop-up from the ANS. It is titled "Where Do Nuclear Engineering Students Work After Graduation?". If you get a chance, take a read. It looks like close to a third of B.S. NE degrees end up in industry.

The suggestion for an ME or EE degree is to give you options outside of the nuclear industry while allowing you to gain valuable knowledge for working in the industry without pigeonholing you. And, if your school has an NE program, you can likely take nuclear engineering electives in your upper years. A general introduction to nuclear engineering course will give you a good bit of information regarding radiation, basic radiation protection, what fission is and why it happens, radioisotope decay, and probably an introduction to neutron diffusion theory which is what most core nuclear physics simulators are based on.

Nobody has the right answers here. But a lot of people here are veterans of the industry or have recently gotten into the industry. Most are just suggesting the best general path that doesn't restrict you if getting into the industry doesn't happen right away after graduation. These options still give you the basic tools to be a great operator/engineer/etc. for a nuclear utility.

[Higgs]

I'm not saying they aren't 

I can say that OPS management understands why they haven't been able to attract more previously licensed folks.  Doesn't change the fact that more previously licensed folks would potentially make things easier during pre-op  and startup testing, as well as the transition to commercial operations.

I'm all ears for any efforts that they're going to make to attract previously licensed people.

Justin

[cheme09]

It doesn't look like the school page makes a distinction between a research reactor operator's license and a commercial reactor operator's license. But if you're saying there's a difference, I'll take your word for it. The program looks as though it prepares people for work as ROs once they earn their degree (NE or otherwise). Every person on the list has RO next to their name as well as a license number from the NRC.

That's because, even though it's a research reactor, it is still licensed under the NRC. And in order to operate said reactor, the RO also needs to be licensed under the NRC.

As to what an NE is for, I assumed it was a good degree to have for work at a power plant, given that you would learn about how the plant functions, and not simply have the NE degree be a pipeline for grad school and a lifetime of research work in a lab trying to create fusion. Surely there are operators (licensed or non licensed) who are hired at power plants who have NE degrees. I know plants hire a variety of engineers from different disciplines, but I can't imagine the majority of people with degrees who work as NLOs and ROs have degrees in something other than NE. Given the insight into Nuclear energy that's gained via a degree in NE, I'd figure that would be the best choice for people wanting to work as NLOs and ROs. But if that's really not the way it is, by all means enlighten me.

You're blurring the lines between being a nuclear engineer and a power plant engineer. In the strictest of terms a nuclear engineer is only concerned with nuclear interactions. In the commercial nuclear power industry, that means designing, modeling, and analyzing the fuel, core and spent fuel. Notice I only spoke of the fuel - not the associated plant equipment built around the core, like the reactor vessel, reactor coolant system, safety systems, etc. The nuclear engineer's focus is on fissionable material and controlling the fission reaction.

As a NE student, the same holds true. A lot of classes are geared towards nuetronics (nuclear physics), which includes core design and fuel management. The program (school) you attend will determine how much exposure you get to actual nuclear plant systems. Some programs, like the one I graduated from, was pretty heavy in relating everything back to a power plant and there was a focus on system interactions. On the other hand, I remember speaking to a NE grad from another school that could speak about the neutron transport equation intelligently, but struggled to (read: could not) explain the basics of how a nuclear power plant works bc this individual was never required to take a power plant or systems class in their curriculum - it was an optional elective.

I have a BS in Chemical Engineering and a MS in NE and I work at a nuclear power plant. Out of almost 100 engineers on the floor. I can count on one hand the number of people (other than me) that actually have a NE degree. Most of the NE degreed individuals in the company work at the corporate office in safety analysis, core design, and fuels.

As far as getting a job at a power plant, mechanical and electrical engineers are usually the degrees that get hired. If you go to a school that offers a nuclear degree, consider taking a few or the nuke classes. That may help differentiate you when you apply for an internship.

[Duke Nukem]

Again, thank you all for the tips.

I'm sure this is a long shot question, but assuming I did decide to throw caution to the wind and earn a degree in NE instead of ME, could anyone recommend courses to take from this list...

http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/reg_records/crs_cat/dir_MAE.html

...to make me more of an eye-catcher to prospective power plant employers? Or do the very letters NE on a diploma spell doom for me if I were to try to apply to any job other than one dealing directly with the core?


As a second hypothetical, if I did get an NE degree, would it be possible to gain power plant employment in some of the lower-skill jobs, such as I&C, technician work, etc? Or would they say no, on the grounds I haven't been specifically trained in such a field?

[ddickey]

You'd need a specific I&C degree to work as I&C tech, sometimes an Electronics degree will qualify you for an I&C position. You'll never get an Apprentice Electrician, Mechanic/Repairman, Rigger, Welder or Machinist job without experience or being internal.

[Higgs]

Again, thank you all for the tips.

I'm sure this is a long shot question, but assuming I did decide to throw caution to the wind and earn a degree in NE instead of ME, could anyone recommend courses to take from this list...

http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/reg_records/crs_cat/dir_MAE.html

...to make me more of an eye-catcher to prospective power plant employers? Or do the very letters NE on a diploma spell doom for me if I were to try to apply to any job other than one dealing directly with the core?


As a second hypothetical, if I did get an NE degree, would it be possible to gain power plant employment in some of the lower-skill jobs, such as I&C, technician work, etc? Or would they say no, on the grounds I haven't been specifically trained in such a field?

I&C jobs are HIGHLY skilled. In fact, I'd argue that it takes more skill to be an I&C tech at a nuke plant than it takes to be an engineer at a nuke plant.


And you do NOT have to have a degree to be an I&C tech..., but you're not going to hire right into that without something.

Justin

[Duke Nukem]

I&C jobs are HIGHLY skilled. In fact, I'd argue that it takes more skill to be an I&C tech at a nuke plant than it takes to be an engineer at a nuke plant.


And you do NOT have to have a degree to be an I&C tech..., but you're not going to hire right into that without something.

Justin

Hmmm... Well I know that a few of those technical college programs offer 2 year degrees in I&C. Although I've also seen job postings for I&C engineers, but I know that's something different. We'll see what happens. To be honest, I'm still up in the air about which path to follow (2 year or 4 year), since all of this is several years down the road. It all depends on my grades over the next few semesters: Good grades in math and mechanics = pursue the BS in Engineering. Mediocre/Bad grades mean pursue the 2 year degree and hope for the best.

I&C aside, one further question for now regarding Nuclear Operators (licensed or otherwise)...

Assuming hiring practices are getting more and more picky and let's say they start hiring only degreed people for Operator work, which 4 year degree would be more beneficial for going into it? NE, ME, EE, ChE? Close call? Doesn't really matter? My concern is getting an edge. Since my pug-ugly appearance and sub-stellar social skills aren't likely to win me any points during the interview, I need a degree that will be seen as the best suited for the job.

Regarding those who told me to pursue Mechanical Engineering, I think that beyond NLO and RO work, I'd still like to pursue things like Control Rod Driver positions, etc, even if it does limit the sheer number of jobs available to me. So perhaps that narrows it down. As stated, I can always minor in ME or take numerous power generation classes on the side. But I know an NE degree would be better suited for working with things like Control Rods versus other parts of the plant where an ME degree would be more useful. Plus, I'm open to living just about anywhere to find work, be it US, UK, Canada, France, etc. I don't care if I end up working at a power plant in Slovakia. Just so long as I'm either working as an NLO/RO or CRD.

[Higgs]

For NLO, any 4 year engineering degree would be just fine. I have guys across the entire spectrum.

Justin

[UncaBuffalo]

As a second hypothetical, if I did get an NE degree, would it be possible to gain power plant employment...as I&C, technician work, etc? Or would they say no, on the grounds I haven't been specifically trained in such a field?

When I hired into I&C, we did have one person transfer down from plant engineering to become a technician...but she had enough electronics background to pass the pre-employment (mostly electronics) test they gave...  You might be able to slip in on a similar deal where they were crying for people...but there are a glut of qualified techs on the market now, as compared to when I hired on, so...

Good luck. 

[ddickey]

This is what I've found out also even though my school was preaching about not enough skilled workers. Yeah right.

[Duke Nukem]

This is what I've found out also even though my school was preaching about not enough skilled workers. Yeah right.

I take it then that the best route is a full-on engineering degree for pretty much any job you're applying to, then? Tech schools are nice and short (and cheap) but if the market is flooded with 2-year tech school grads, then perhaps a bachelor's is the way to go. (?)

[Roll Tide]

Do not limit your choices so much.
http://www.engr.utk.edu/nuclear/utnegrad.html
UT Knoxville has a MS in Nuclear Engineering, and they will even let you earn that online.
You already have a degree (B.A?); what would it take for a B.S from an online program.
WGU or TESC or Excelsior or Liberty or any other accredited program would be a place to start looking.
If you have two calculus courses, and two calculus-based physics courses, included on your transcript for graduation, then you are eligible to be an STA. At some locations, that will be an impacting factor on whether or not they hire.

Just my thoughts as a non-traditional degree holder with sons in two different on-campus Nuclear programs at the present...

[Duke Nukem]

Do not limit your choices so much.
http://www.engr.utk.edu/nuclear/utnegrad.html
UT Knoxville has a MS in Nuclear Engineering, and they will even let you earn that online.
You already have a degree (B.A?); what would it take for a B.S from an online program.
WGU or TESC or Excelsior or Liberty or any other accredited program would be a place to start looking.
If you have two calculus courses, and two calculus-based physics courses, included on your transcript for graduation, then you are eligible to be an STA. At some locations, that will be an impacting factor on whether or not they hire.

Just my thoughts as a non-traditional degree holder with sons in two different on-campus Nuclear programs at the present...

So... perhaps after taking Calc II and Phys I and II, I might be able to simply start applying for work? That is... if they even take people without experience.

STA? As in, Shift Technical Advisor? Sounds like a vague job title. What specifically would I be doing on the job, if I may ask?