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DukeMaster87

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Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« on: Feb 28, 2014, 11:01 »
Hi,   I did search but could not find too many posts regarding a physics degree.   I noticed for equipment operators, many of the positions require either a Navy Nuke experience, Bachelors or Associates in Engineering, Engineering Technology or related sciences.  I have applied at a few and when you get into the actual application process the requirements explicitly include physics to make it Engineering, Engineering Technology, Physics or Related Sciences.  I have Physics (B.S.) with many courses in upper level Math and Chemistry. What I don't have is experience in an operator role.  Although the positions I applied for are all either Entry Level or Trainee roles I feel like not having experience might be good since the individual companies would train me how they would want something done.


I was curious on time table.  I know it takes sometime for the recruiters to get all the information forwarded to them but its been abut a week I figure at about 2-3 weeks in they would have called you in to either invite you to take the required tests or decline you as a possibility.   Is this reasonable?  I am just nervous.  I have met the specific qualifications on the postings to at least warrant taking the tests.

Also as an aside,  I notice a lot of the positions (even the experienced ones) have rotating shifts between nights and days.  i wouldn't mind it at all,  but why do they rotate?  I know at hospitals people just either work days or nights so they can keep the same schedule.  It seems it would be more efficient that way then flip flopping everyone around all the time? 

Offline Nuclear NASCAR

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #1 on: Feb 28, 2014, 12:02 »

Also as an aside,  I notice a lot of the positions (even the experienced ones) have rotating shifts between nights and days.  i wouldn't mind it at all,  but why do they rotate?  I know at hospitals people just either work days or nights so they can keep the same schedule.  It seems it would be more efficient that way then flip flopping everyone around all the time? 

There are several reasons for the rotating schedule.  Training usually occurs on days during training weeks which can be every 5 or 6 weeks depending on your plants schedule.  Plants with Union contracts most likely have language addressing fair rotation of shifts and work. 
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge."

  -Bertrand Russell

Offline DelayedNeutron

Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #2 on: Mar 01, 2014, 01:53 »
There are some nuke plants that are looking for college grads with no experience, but its not very common.  I would recommend applying at every nuke plant on the east coast.  Also, as for time lines, it could be 1 or 2 months before getting word to take a POSS exam, another month before an interview and then another month or two before an offer is made and then another month before starting work ( :old: ). Job postings only come up maybe once a year or every two years for some plants, so finding the right plant at the right time can be a challenge without experience.  Its basically a numbers game, if you keep applying, eventually one will be interested.  The only thing is, do you have the patience to keep putting in applications and waiting for a response...

On a lighter note, the Nuclear Navy is hiring.  :)

DukeMaster87

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #3 on: Mar 01, 2014, 08:32 »
Thank you for your insight. If what you say is true then they are false-advertising their job position by saying its entry level and only requirement is upper level courses with degree or background in navy nuke.  I'm a little surprised at how long it would take in the year 2014 with technology, the internet.  Its not like I mailed them my application.  You'd have thought I was applying for the government (that I know takes forever).

As an aside, I have seen job postings with GE for entry level and they require a PhD an 10 years experience.   I would like to think Exelon is no GE.

Fermi2

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #4 on: Mar 01, 2014, 11:23 »
No they are not false advertising they are posting the minim requirement. Technology has nothing to do with it. Hr has to review the resumes then attempt to screen them. Those making the minimum cut are then sent to the hiring manager for his review. This person probably has an hour a week to handle this as he has more important duties. He then has to create a weighted matrix of the qualifications as to what he deems to be most important experience or education. He has to get this approved by hr to ensure he did not include discriminatory factors. Them he fills on the blanks and sees who meets his minimum requirements. Then he has to submit his proposed interview questions and grading scale to hr.
It's a million dollar investment so you have to get it right and ensure the company doesn't get sued in the process. At minimum I would have 10 spots to fill. I don't get another chance for 2 years and getting the wrong people disrupts other timelines.
Btw from what I have seen you wouldn't make my cut and I have an outstanding record for hiring the right people.

DukeMaster87

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #5 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:05 »
Thank you for the info.    Why wouldn't I make the initial cut to be contacted.  This isn't screening for the interview, this is screening to take the aptitude tests which I am confident I would pass. If the persons job title is Hiring Manager, they dont seem to spend much time on the hiring part. 

It is misleading though to have the minimum qualifications if the company knows there is no real chance of hiring someone who meets just those qualifications.  If they want experience they should state it and it would drive down the volume of applications and give the hiring manager more time to review real applicants.  Perhaps the company needs to hire another hiring manager to actually have enough time to manage the hiring. 

It shouldn't takes months and months to hire someone.  they are no obvious hurry from what I can tell if that is the pace.

DukeMaster87

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #6 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:07 »
There are several reasons for the rotating schedule.  Training usually occurs on days during training weeks which can be every 5 or 6 weeks depending on your plants schedule.  Plants with Union contracts most likely have language addressing fair rotation of shifts and work. 

Thank you for the info on the shifts.  Is there a way to side-step it.  i would rather work the night shifts.  I would think it would pay more for shift differential pay ect.

Fermi2

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #7 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:27 »
Hiring manager is not a position it is a duty an individual performs to ensure his department hires the right people. Nukes and utilities in general post jobs knowing they won't be filled for 4 to 7 months. The process isn't meant to be convenient for you.

Strike 2 but on my scale you would be gone because you made assumptions vice asking intelligent questions to begin with.

I have been a hiring manager many times including 3 times in the past 4 months. It's something I do on my spare time not my work time and that is pretty much everyone who does it. Again the process isn't to make it easy for a snow flake it's to hire the right person.

When I do it I want to decide who goes to pre testing too because it costs up to 250 a person to test. So I will do stuff like check this forum, Facebook, Twitter to see who will screen themselves out by their attitude.

For every person I hire there are roughly 100 applicants.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #8 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:31 »
When I do it I want to decide who goes to pre testing too because it costs up to 250 a person to test. So I will do stuff like check this forum, Facebook, Twitter to see who will screen themselves out by their attitude.

For every person I hire there are roughly 100 applicants.

Dude !!!  Does it pay in Bitcoin?  ;)

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #9 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:32 »
lol well not as of yet

DukeMaster87

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #10 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:42 »
Hiring manager is not a position it is a duty an individual performs to ensure his department hires the right people. Nukes and utilities in general post jobs knowing they won't be filled for 4 to 7 months. The process isn't meant to be convenient for you.

Strike 2 but on my scale you would be gone because you made assumptions vice asking intelligent questions to begin with.

I have been a hiring manager many times including 3 times in the past 4 months. It's something I do on my spare time not my work time and that is pretty much everyone who does it. Again the process isn't to make it easy for a snow flake it's to hire the right person.

When I do it I want to decide who goes to pre testing too because it costs up to 250 a person to test. So I will do stuff like check this forum, Facebook, Twitter to see who will screen themselves out by their attitude.

For every person I hire there are roughly 100 applicants.



I deactivate my facebook account and dont even use my real name on there.  I'm not that dumb.  I make sure never to put in my race or gender on any application.  I always check 'decline to disclose'.  $250 is a lot for a marginal cost of one applicant.  You would have thought they would have a standardize test similar to Acturaries and other jobs that require certain scores.

My issue is just companies take several months to decide but then want a decision from the applicant on one day notice.  Its a two way street.  I also dont understand why you cant under-negotatie wage to make it cheaper.  If I offer my labor at half the wage of the next applicant and we have similar backgrounds, it would be better for the company to hire me versus someone else.  The minimum wage is $7.25/hour.

What assumptions did I make in my opening paragraph?  All I asked was a general time table since HR people could not answer. If the issue is too many applicants make more stringent requirements.  The applicants still have to pass both tests ( the company could require a 3rd test if they wanted to).

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #11 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:49 »
There is a standardized test it costs roughly 250 to get it graded and administered. You are simply proving why I wouldn't hire you.
As for asking for tote answer in a day the last I checked you were looking for the job not me. As I said I have plenty of options. I will interview 5 guys per opening. Odds are there isn't much difference between the 12th guy I hire and the 13th who I didn't. Life isn't fair and if you want fair do not get into the utility business. It ain't fair or easy.

As for nukeworker I can legally ask you if you are registered on any websites. I can investigate you before I make the decision and you are obligated to tell me if I find out later you lied I fire you. It is that simple.

To be honest here is the pecking order

Internal candidates
Union recommendations
People residing within 60 miles of the plant
Guys who have been through the local community college training program
Navy nukes
Other vets
You

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #12 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:55 »
1) My issue is just companies take several months to decide but then want a decision from the applicant on one day notice. 2) Its a two way street. 3) I also dont understand why you cant under-negotatie wage to make it cheaper.  If I offer my labor at half the wage of the next applicant and we have similar backgrounds, it would be better for the company to hire me versus someone else.  The minimum wage is $7.25/hour.

Although philosophically I agree with what you say, the reality is:

1) They have internal HR processes, desired new hire billets often change from beginning to end , etc. The snap notice is unfair, but they have way more applicants than Joe Applicant has job options.

2) No, it's more like a Kit-Kat bar. Two for me, none for you. Welcome to the corporate world.

3) They have a strong union contract. The good wage that you seek derives from the same collective bargaining that says you can't undercut the wage, or change the other conditions of the contract. It is how it is.



DukeMaster87

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #13 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:57 »
I was asking the marginal costs not the initial costs.  Why not let the applicant pay for the exams.  That is how it is in other industries.  Don't complain about the costs then not allow the applicant to pay for it.  That's the companies fault they are paying the $250/exam.    what about wages?  During the interview I could demand a lower wage to help cut costs.  If the company ignores that then they are part of the problem with determining costs.  The job of the company is to make profit, if I can do it cheaper it would be better.

Sure I am on facebook, but good luck finding me.  I am actually pretty libertarian minded and believe in the free markets,  but companies seem to ignore that.  If a companies management is weak enough to allow unions, it reflects the companies.

and the preferences should be listed on the job posting.  I never worked for the government or union, there goes my chances.   

Its not what you know, its who you know

Fermi2

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Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #14 on: Mar 01, 2014, 02:57 »
If you undercut your wage to get the job the incumbents will never sign your qual book you will. Never qualify and I will fire you. You really are not very bright are you?

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #15 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:02 »
In the nuclear industry it is what you know.
There is no such thing as being weak enough to allow unions. There is such a thing as national labor law. I am convinced someone at one time said you have to comply with that.

Like I said if I ask you if you have Facebook you have to tell me, if you don't it's easy bye.

You will pay your own way to the test but by law I cannot require you to pay for it. The great thing is guys like you validate my pre screening.

Again I could care less if you need the job. I simply care about hiring the right guy.
If you cannot decide on the job within an hour I really don't want you.
After all you applied to come into my house

DukeMaster87

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #16 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:03 »
If you undercut your wage to get the job the incumbents will never sign your qual book you will. Never qualify and I will fire you. You really are not very bright are you?

Its called economics.  If I offer my labor for a cheaper price compared to an identical applicant, it would be better financially to hire me.  There are many factors in deciding to hire someone,  but if two applicants have identical backgrounds and ablities, the cheaper one would be better to hire.  You already said it is very expensive to hire someone.  If it is made cheaper it would help.


Lower wages doesn't necessarily mean poor quality.

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #17 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:08 »
No I am obligated to offer what is in the pay band not what you offer me to do the job. And as I said you do that and you won't qualify. You would get fired.

As I said I have hired guys or a long time. I wouldn't want you. Too me oriented.

DukeMaster87

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #18 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:09 »
In the nuclear industry it is what you know.
There is no such thing as being weak enough to allow unions. There is such a thing as national labor law. I am convinced someone at one time said you have to comply with that.

Like I said if I ask you if you have Facebook you have to tell me, if you don't it's easy bye.

You will pay your own way to the test but by law I cannot require you to pay for it. The great thing is guys like you validate my pre screening.

Again I could care less if you need the job. I simply care about hiring the right guy.
If you cannot decide on the job within an hour I really don't want you.
After all you applied to come into my house

I just told you I have facebook.  It is deactivated so no one can view my profile, and again it doesnt use my real name so it would be very difficult to find it to begin with.    You dont have to require that I pay for the test, but I can offer and you can accept.  If you want these specific specifications why dont you post them on the job information posts and not waste company time.  You seem to complain about the costs of hiring someone but do nothing to lower that costs.

and yes unions are a problem. there is an old saying 'unions promote mediocrity'.  If a young brass comes in and can do the job of an incumbent at half the price,  the incumbent is getting fired.  


DukeMaster87

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #19 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:11 »
No I am obligated to offer what is in the pay band not what you offer me to do the job. And as I said you do that and you won't qualify. You would get fired.

As I said I have hired guys or a long time. I wouldn't want you. Too me oriented.

If I was 'me oriented' I would be demanding hire wages not lower wages.  Thats the fault of management that lets a union dictate wages and not the company.  Weak management

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #20 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:13 »
Nope it's called collective bargaining. It's the way of the world. You aren't a good candidate for the nuke industry. Try another. You won't get hired. No experience and nothing stands out about you.

Offline HydroDave63

Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #21 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:15 »
Its called economics.  If I offer my labor for a cheaper price compared to an identical applicant, it would be better financially to hire me.  There are many factors in deciding to hire someone,  but if two applicants have identical backgrounds and ablities, the cheaper one would be better to hire.  You already said it is very expensive to hire someone.  If it is made cheaper it would help.


Lower wages doesn't necessarily mean poor quality.

Time to put down the dog-eared Atlas Shrugged and tune into the reality here.

From your first post: Although the positions I applied for are all either Entry Level or Trainee roles I feel like not having experience might be good since the individual companies would train me how they would want something done.

The first highlight is all the HR person (much less the hiring manager) would need to see to assign your application a lower priority in the stack.

The second highlight is illogical. Having no experience steepens the learning curve for the trainee. Doesn't rule out success, but diminishes the chances.

This nuclear power thing may not be a good fit....have you considered teaching science instead?

DukeMaster87

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #22 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:19 »
Nope it's called collective bargaining. It's the way of the world. You aren't a good candidate for the nuke industry. Try another. You won't get hired. No experience and nothing stands out about you.

I told you in the my first posts I had no experience that is why I applied to trainee positions.  those are designed for people like me.  If not then the classification needs to be trained. 

Like i said General Electric has job postings for entry level but then require PhD an 10 years experience.  That is not entry level.
 maybe for that company that is unionized but the laws of Economics dont change.

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #23 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:20 »
Agreed I want the most experienced person I can find. The training program is light years faster paced than college with more material. I have hundreds of utility guys and ex navy guys applying. Plus many utilities are using community colleges as pre training facilities. The last class at sqn was picked purely from these guys.

His resume wouldn't make it past the first couple bullets.

Before I turn you loose in my plant get experience elsewhere.

Fermi2

  • Guest
Re: Physics Degree & Entry level Operator
« Reply #24 on: Mar 01, 2014, 03:21 »
Because it is a trainee job. You are training a person with experience to fill a position via a TRAINING program. Btw with

 


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