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Offline ethanharm

DZ Atlantic
« on: May 26, 2015, 02:00 »
Has anyone heard of any DZ employees who were fired due to per diem working with DZ again? I was fired in 2009 for per diem and have since returned to nuclear and would like to work for DZ again. Thanks for any help.

Offline Rennhack

Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2015, 02:10 »
fired due to per diem

Kind of vague.  Please give more details.  If not, I can give a vague "yes".

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2015, 07:31 »
Has anyone heard of any DZ employees who were fired due to per diem working with DZ again? I was fired in 2009 for per diem and have since returned to nuclear and would like to work for DZ again. Thanks for any help.

I almost worked for DZ once until I read the contract that stated you lose per diem if: (Quote from a contract they wanted me to sign)
#3:  For per diem purposes no excused absences will be recognized . . (one day gone)
#4:  An employee may not miss more than 1 ½ hours for the day to be counted as a day worked. (Stuck in traffic, lose another day in late)
#5:  An employee must work all scheduled work days for a given week to be paid per diem for scheduled days off.  (You miss a day due to sickness, you lose scheduled days off on top of the day sick)

It is for this reason I'd never work for them.

Bartlett is not at all like this.  I could see how you could get into per diem trouble with them even if you properly document having a home residence you are paying for.
 

chuckdhuff

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2015, 10:05 »
I almost worked for DZ once until I read the contract that stated you lose per diem if: (Quote from a contract they wanted me to sign)
#3:  For per diem purposes no excused absences will be recognized . . (one day gone)
#4:  An employee may not miss more than 1 ½ hours for the day to be counted as a day worked. (Stuck in traffic, lose another day in late)
#5:  An employee must work all scheduled work days for a given week to be paid per diem for scheduled days off.  (You miss a day due to sickness, you lose scheduled days off on top of the day sick)

It is for this reason I'd never work for them.

Bartlett is not at all like this.  I could see how you could get into per diem trouble with them even if you properly document having a home residence you are paying for.
 
Honestly, all of those requirements were probably in their contract with the utility. I have seen the same requirements at a couple different sites. I have also seen very stringent requirements for proof of permanent and temporary residency. The bottom line is that utilities are getting very tired of paying per diem so they are cracking down on those that are playing the per diem game. Which in turn is effecting valid per diem workers.

Per diem is nothing but a hassle for the contracting company. It requires extra documentation, too high may effect chances of securing the contract, too low may not be able to draw the workers you need, and it's all a pass through cost so they don't actually make any money on it.

As for the OP; I knew of a couple of people who were "ROF'd" around the 2009 period when per diem crackdown seemed to hit hard. They have worked for DZ since then. As was stated earlier, with the vagueness of your statement it is impossible to give you any sound advice if there even is any to give.

Offline Smart People

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2015, 11:06 »
At Duke sites you only get Per Diem for the days you work. That affects DZ, Bartlett and all other vendors
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Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 01:59 »
At Duke sites you only get Per Diem for the days you work. That affects DZ, Bartlett and all other vendors

I was blessed then when I worked at Duke sites and never got sick.  If they  truly make you lose per diem on your  days off if you ever get sick, I probably would have never gone back.  No worker takes an assignment away from home to "milk it" by calling in sick just to get per diem.  Per diem pays for the room and food while away from home.  I am still away from home on a scheduled day and maintaining all the same costs.  If you avoid going to work to keep from spreading the sickness, it seems quite a penalty to lose day off per diem.  I would feel I am being nickeled and dimed and probably find another line of work at that point.

nukewood

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 03:00 »
Having just worked Brunswick , Duke, we had many absentees during a flu outbreak. Everyone I spoke with was paid full per diem. If one starts work at a Duke plant more than 30 days prior to an outage, they will only pay per diem for days work. Therefore , I choose not to participate any earlier than 30 days prior.

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 03:37 »
Having just worked Brunswick , Duke, we had many absentees during a flu outbreak. Everyone I spoke with was paid full per diem. If one starts work at a Duke plant more than 30 days prior to an outage, they will only pay per diem for days work. Therefore , I choose not to participate any earlier than 30 days prior.

If you  are away from your home and they only partially pay your per diem, they are showing they really don't want you there.

Chimera

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2015, 08:30 »
That would be a decision for each Tech to make based on their personal circumstances.  However, given how adamantly opposed to this idea your are, allow me reiterate: Don't take the job.

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2015, 11:35 »
That would be a decision for each Tech to make based on their personal circumstances.  However, given how adamantly opposed to this idea your are, allow me reiterate: Don't take the job.
Bartlett is better in this regard.  I am surprised anyone would put up with such treatment.  It sounds like how it was in the early 1900's when workers had no rights and were treated poorly.  A traveling worker should not so arbitrarily lose their per diem.

chuckdhuff

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2015, 01:02 »
Bartlett is better in this regard.  I am surprised anyone would put up with such treatment.  It sounds like how it was in the early 1900's when workers had no rights and were treated poorly.  A traveling worker should not so arbitrarily lose their per diem.

The reality is it's not theirs to lose. There is no requirement for contract companies to pay per diem at all. If you don't like the pd being offered (or not offered) no need to apply. The bottom line is the company, utility, plant will find personnel to fill the spots, the outage will happen, the work will get done, and the world will keep turning. Days of 7 days per diem for a questionable address, even if you call in/lay out are all but gone. Everyone is looking to trim costs, this is definitely one of them taking a hit. Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. Is it a reality? Yep.

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2015, 03:34 »
The reality is it's not theirs to lose. There is no requirement for contract companies to pay per diem at all. If you don't like the pd being offered (or not offered) no need to apply. The bottom line is the company, utility, plant will find personnel to fill the spots, the outage will happen, the work will get done, and the world will keep turning. Days of 7 days per diem for a questionable address, even if you call in/lay out are all but gone. Everyone is looking to trim costs, this is definitely one of them taking a hit. Is it fair? Maybe, maybe not. Is it a reality? Yep.

Do you think there are people so desperate that they would work without per diem?  (except local <50 miles etc.).  You get what you pay for.  My gripe is not people who are so desperate they will work for little over the minimum wage ($15) West Coast, it is not getting per diem when you expected it or traps in the contract to rob you for slight infractions (1 1/2 hours late).  I think traveling workers go through enough spending their own money just to get there (Paid flat mileage doesn't pay for hotels or time spent traveling).  If the industry can't afford to pay people to maintain it during outages, maybe people should go into other lines of work.  I did not accept DZ contract when I read it.  Bartlett has never treated me that way, maybe they are a better contractor to work for? 

chuckdhuff

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2015, 04:41 »
Do you think there are people so desperate that they would work without per diem?  (except local <50 miles etc.).  You get what you pay for.

Not only do I think it but I know there are. I wouldn't call a Union Welder desperate, or insinuate that they are a less then desirable employee because they took a no per diem job. I know one that drove from Ohio to Washington to weld test with no promise of compensation at all unless he passed the test. Of course he did pass, he is very skilled and nuclear experienced. The job was no per diem. He kept all his receipts and turned them in at tax time. Apparently it is quite common. Also happens quite often on "hard dollar" jobs such as dirt burners and such.

My gripe is not people who are so desperate they will work for little over the minimum wage ($15) West Coast, it is not getting per diem when you expected it or traps in the contract to rob you for slight infractions (1 1/2 hours late).  I think traveling workers go through enough spending their own money just to get there (Paid flat mileage doesn't pay for hotels or time spent traveling).  If the industry can't afford to pay people to maintain it during outages, maybe people should go into other lines of work.

Misleading information from the contracting company is bad business. Unfortunately, I don't believe that will ever end.

I did not accept DZ contract when I read it.  Bartlett has never treated me that way, maybe they are a better contractor to work for?

Sounds like you made the choice that you considered to be in your best interest. Perhaps BHI is better in your opinion, I really don't have an opinion either way. I have heard stories similar to yours about just about every big contract company.

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2015, 02:56 »
Not only do I think it but I know there are. I wouldn't call a Union Welder desperate, or insinuate that they are a less then desirable employee because they took a no per diem job. I know one that drove from Ohio to Washington to weld test with no promise of compensation at all unless he passed the test. Of course he did pass, he is very skilled and nuclear experienced. The job was no per diem. He kept all his receipts and turned them in at tax time. Apparently it is quite common. Also happens quite often on "hard dollar" jobs such as dirt burners and such.

I hope the hourly made up for the lack of per diem.  Deducting at the end of the year only returns a percentage of the expenses, like 25% if you are in that tax bracket.  For example instead if $100/day per diem you pay out of pocket $80/day for food, lodging and gas.  Based on a 40 hour week, that is $8/hour.  After 6 weeks, you spent $80 x 7 days x 6 weeks= $3,360 out of pocket.  If you are in the 25% bracket, you deduct it all but only get 25% or $840 back in taxes.  You still lost $6/hour in wages.  If  your drive was 3 days each way, you also lost 6 days of labor.  By taking the job and you were entitled to 6 weeks of unemployment, you lose and additional $500 per week you could have got sitting on your rear.  Say if you earned $25/hour or $25 x 40 = $1000/week  Subtract 20% withholding, you take home $800/week.  Subtracting food gas of $560/week, your net is only $240/week.  You are effectively working for $240/wk /40 hours or only $6/hour.  Maybe you could split a room to lower the room cost to $40/day, for a net per week of $520/40 or netting $13/hour.  Sitting on your rear earned you 500/week or $12.50/hour.  The net net result is work and get $.50/hour more then sitting at home for $12.50/hour.  This is in the math, prove me wrong.  Working without per diem you might as well stay at home if you have the choice.

Offline Smart People

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2015, 05:39 »
if you have the choice.

You do
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Think twice and say nothing..Chiun
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chuckdhuff

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2015, 09:16 »
I hope the hourly made up for the lack of per diem.  Deducting at the end of the year only returns a percentage of the expenses, like 25% if you are in that tax bracket.  For example instead if $100/day per diem you pay out of pocket $80/day for food, lodging and gas.  Based on a 40 hour week, that is $8/hour.  After 6 weeks, you spent $80 x 7 days x 6 weeks= $3,360 out of pocket.  If you are in the 25% bracket, you deduct it all but only get 25% or $840 back in taxes.  You still lost $6/hour in wages.  If  your drive was 3 days each way, you also lost 6 days of labor.  By taking the job and you were entitled to 6 weeks of unemployment, you lose and additional $500 per week you could have got sitting on your rear.  Say if you earned $25/hour or $25 x 40 = $1000/week  Subtract 20% withholding, you take home $800/week.  Subtracting food gas of $560/week, your net is only $240/week.  You are effectively working for $240/wk /40 hours or only $6/hour.  Maybe you could split a room to lower the room cost to $40/day, for a net per week of $520/40 or netting $13/hour.  Sitting on your rear earned you 500/week or $12.50/hour.  The net net result is work and get $.50/hour more then sitting at home for $12.50/hour.  This is in the math, prove me wrong.  Working without per diem you might as well stay at home if you have the choice.
I didn't bother to check your math, I have no reason to question it. I'm just telling you there are plenty of jobs out there that are being done without per diem, nuke and non-nuke.

It may not matter much to you, but welder wage at a nuke is never $25/hour. Last time I checked it was ~$40 with OT and DT. The scenario that I referenced in my post was not for 40 hour weeks, it was an outage. 6-8 weeks of 72 hours, working time helps make up for no or low per diem.

nukewood

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2015, 12:28 »
Content1
I wonder if maybe you have too much time to think  ?

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2015, 01:44 »
I think it's good that C1 does the math. We all need to figure out and do what is best for us and our families
Blessed is the man who can laugh at himself--he will never cease to be amused
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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2015, 02:57 »
iffen yew correlate per diem and wage yins are cheating yourself on o.t. ware the diem is lacking. enny company witch correlates the to runs afowl of hour beloved i.r.s. who says to knot due that oar the company is liable to pay employee higher o.t. (p.d.rate X1.5) and the employee is liable four moor income tax. gizt sayin....
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2015, 09:46 »
Content1
I wonder if maybe you have too much time to think  ?

May times in my career I thought it was always wiser to work verses being unemployed.  I was so good at finding work that maybe I used 12 weeks a year of the 25 weeks of unemployment we can get.  Is this always Smart?  Not necessarily.  In my above example, I  had a choice of taking an away job with no per diem or staying home hoping to find one.  I had unemployment available for the 6 weeks.  If I could find a job with per diem, it would be worth it; otherwise, it is not worth making a net $.50/hour just to pretend I am making a living.  I would question the sanity of anyone who took the job in my above example.  You may counter, "Doesn't unemployment force you to take any  job?"  No.

Offline ethanharm

Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #20 on: Jun 03, 2015, 10:49 »
I was fired for being considered a local and getting per diem. Was told I could reapply after three years. DZ said in a nut shell that I've been black balled. I spoke to Dukes access control and they said in not flagged as a "not for rehire". I've since gotten back in nuclear with different contractors and I've heard that a few of the guys that were fired over the same issue were rehired by DZ. I had worked for DZ for 10 years and in the Duke system for eight years. Hope this cleared up any questions from my original question.

Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #21 on: Jun 03, 2015, 02:27 »
I was fired for being considered a local and getting per diem. Was told I could reapply after three years. DZ said in a nut shell that I've been black balled. I spoke to Dukes access control and they said in not flagged as a "not for rehire". I've since gotten back in nuclear with different contractors and I've heard that a few of the guys that were fired over the same issue were rehired by DZ. I had worked for DZ for 10 years and in the Duke system for eight years. Hope this cleared up any questions from my original question.

Just because you are black balled by DZ is not a reason to panic.  I would not work for them for the reasons stated in my posts.  I live on the West Coast so be a local was never a problem.  I always thought if you  simply give them your home address that is verified would be sufficient for them to figure out if you qualify for per diem.

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #22 on: Jun 03, 2015, 07:15 »
  I always thought if you  simply give them your home address that is verified would be sufficient for them to figure out if you qualify for per diem.
dat's the weigh it's bin on my jobs wit them.
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Content1

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Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #23 on: Jun 03, 2015, 11:07 »
Content1
I wonder if maybe you have too much time to think  ?
I notice Padukah is hiring for $40 w/o per diem.  Say if per diem would have been $100/day, that works out at 40 hours/week, that averages $17.50/hour tax free.  Compared to a per diem job you would make the same if you only made $22.50/hour.  That job only makes sense if you are a local.

Offline Rennhack

Re: DZ Atlantic
« Reply #24 on: Jun 04, 2015, 01:12 »
I notice Padukah is hiring for $40 w/o per diem.  Say if per diem would have been $100/day, that works out at 40 hours/week, that averages $17.50/hour tax free.  Compared to a per diem job you would make the same if you only made $22.50/hour.  That job only makes sense if you are a local.

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« Last Edit: Jun 04, 2015, 01:13 by Rennhack »

 


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