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Sorry Mike not the point. Exelon is in a free market and no one will bid on the price of power from those plants. In capitalism the solution is not to raise everyone else so you can be competitive. Nuclear is subsidized as it is. Make yourself competitive and you will sell your product. Gas and poor management is killing the nuclear industry subsidized wind is not .


--- Quote from: Rerun on Jun 01, 2015, 12:35 ---Sorry Mike not the point. Exelon is in a free market and no one will bid on the price of power from those plants. In capitalism the solution is not to raise everyone else so you can be competitive. Nuclear is subsidized as it is. Make yourself competitive and you will sell your product. Gas and poor management is killing the nuclear industry subsidized wind is not .

--- End quote ---
Sorry Rerun... it's exactly the whole point. Why should any company that sells electricity for a living be forced to buy random generated unreliable power, that they don't need, just because a state passes a "feel good" law on solar & wind? If you think that is a "free market" OK. If you think that is a pricing subsidy for nukes, OK. Nukes haven't had subsidies since the 80's; if you believe otherwise OK. The closest thing to maybe a "subsidy" is maybe the special tax rule on decom fund investment gains (but kinda like my IRA gains which I certainly don't consider a subsidy). Without the "subsidized" requirements for wind and solar they can't exist competitively. Without the indirect "subsidized" requirement for absolutely no emission reg penalties for fossil generation it can't compete with nukes. The price of power from "those plants" is proportional to the unnecessary bloated staffing levels just for the INPO programs; something a utility can't control currently. I guess we disagree, but it's a joke to say nuke compete in a "free market". Not to even mention they are regulated to the reaction to the magnitude of the "Press Event" created by the media for nuke Industrial Accidents. Obviously our mileage varies, but I first qualed as an Operator in 1967, so have some miles.


--- Quote from: Rerun on Jun 01, 2015, 12:35 ---........ Gas and poor management is killing the nuclear industry subsidized wind is not .

--- End quote ---

the nukes try, then the same folks who subsidize wind turbines shutdown the better nuke answers to the hardest challenges,...


--- Quote from: GLW on May 16, 2014, 08:05 ---Another Nail In The Coffin

The problem with nukes is they think like nukes,…

They don’t think like lawyers,…

You see they (those lawyers so inclined) have hit upon a better way to kill off the evils of nuclear power,…

And it’s all about root to fruit,…

A few of you may know and most of you probably do not know, that in about 18 to 24 months some new regulation is coming our way,…

Regulation which will alter (a lot) the utilities’ liabilities for the long term transport and security for spent fuel,…

Call it the “300 Year Plan”, it will be titled somewhat different but that is the essential gist of it,…

They (the lawyers) will take the government stake out of the picture,...

They will make it a completely private venture, the liabilities to be born solely by private companies, while they (the government lawyers) retain the prerogative of first refusal for any private venture solutions (ref the Skull Valley post on this thread from 16 months ago, the private industry lawyers see it coming too, Skull Valley was an early and preemptive privately funded solution, of course, the government’s position is that Indians are too stupid to know what is best for them),…

The government has quietly given up it’s collection of fees for long term spent fuel security and transport, when does the government ever stop collecting a tax and to what purpose?!?!?!,…


Which leaves the government able to make the case that IF Company A wants to make electrons flow with nuclear fuel THEN Company
A carries the full liability and costs,…

After all, it’s not like the government is confiscating any monies from the taxpayers in this endeavor, the government and it’s constituency have no stake in this endeavor, the government and the people it serves have no root in the ill-gotten fruits of spent fuel security and transport,…

The dam country has not even existed for 300 years, what company in it’s right mind is going to take on a 300 year liability?!?!?!?

Of course if you want to know the root of this chicanery, simply look to the lawyer in chief,…

All of the forward-looking statements made in this post are qualified as cautionary statements and no one can assure the reader that the results or developments anticipated by the user will be realized or even if realized, will have the expected consequences to, or effects on, any reader's employment prospects, financial condition or results of litigation. Readers are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any employment decision. Forward-looking statements made in this post apply only as of the date of this post. While the user may elect to update forward-looking statements from time to time, the user specifically disclaims any obligation to do so, even if internal assessments change, unless otherwise required by applicable appropriate reflection.

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--- Quote from: GLW on Jan 27, 2013, 08:24 ---
Finishing an abandoned project is nice, but not a renaissance,...(WB2)


...as for a commercial power renaissance,...

nukeworkers have been targeted by ............ for extinction,...

Yucca is dead and buried,...

the DOE "Blue Ribbon Commission" decided consolidated interim storage was the best answer left, which left the PFS at skull valley as the best potential answer, yet the BLM, DOIA and DOI have continually beset PFS at every turn, finally, on 01/13/2013, PFS pulled the plug on trying to bring consolidated interim storage to fruition and so the Blue Ribbon Commision's best answer is a dead end, Yucca is a dead end and the utilities are stuck with ISFSI's certified for twenty years and a never ending, above ground, temporary storage liability,....

Kewaunee is the first victim,...

Because there is no federal repository for spent fuel, the used nuclear fuel will remain on site at Kewaunee for an undetermined amount of time. After it is cooled for five to seven years in the spent-fuel pool, the waste will then be transferred to concrete casks on the Kewaunee reactor site, Stoddard said.


stand by for more,....

Money, politics bury plans for Utah fuel-rod cemetery

Some folks once thought it was a great idea to build a kind of long-term parking lot in Utah’s desert for the nation’s nuclear-reactor waste.

That thinking drove 11 utility companies to form Private Fuel Storage LLC (PFS) and partner with the tiny Skull Valley Band of Goshute Indians in Tooele County to build a private, interim solution for nuclear waste until the federal government created a permanent one.


PFS pulls the plug on parking lot dump targeted at Skull Valley Goshutes in Utah


I'm happy for the continued jobs on the taxpayers dime at Oak Ridge,...

But those jobs have been there since World War 2,...

we're talking renaissance here, not status quo,... 8)

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--- Quote from: GLW on Feb 20, 2015, 11:26 ---Let me help you with some numbers for consideration (nuclear power plants contributing to the grid):

First - Some 10,000 foot numbers;

  •   Licensed in 1950's   3
  •   Licensed in 1960's   19
  •   Licensed in 1970's   59
  •   Licensed in 1980's   47
  •   Licensed in 1990's   5
  •   Licensed in 2000’s   0
  •   Licensed in 2010’s   0

       o   Shuttered in 1950's      0
       o   Shuttered in 1960's      7
       o   Shuttered in 1970's      7
       o   Shuttered in 1980's      6
       o   Shuttered in 1990's      9
       o   Shuttered in 2000's      0
       o   Shuttered in 2010's      5
Of the remaining plants on the grid;

   •   <10 YO              0
   •   10-20 YO           1
   •   20-30 YO           31
   •   30-40 YO           31
   •   >40 YO              36
   •   Total on Grid       99

       o   Licensed in 1960's   2
       o   Licensed in 1970's   48
       o   Licensed in 1980's   44
       o   Licensed in 1990's   5
       o   Licensed in 2000's   0
       o   Licensed in 2010's   0

               #   Average Age in Years       34            
               #   Median Age in Years         36   

Of the shuttered plants;

   •   Total Shuttered                    34
   •   Total Shuttered w/ISFSI's      22

       o   Average Age in Years     18            
       o   Median Age in Years       17

for all the talk of a renaissance the BWRs and PWRs of the past do not seem to be gaining any traction whatsoever, and the number of perfectly good nuclear power plants relegated to the dust bin of economic nonviability keeps growing,...


plus the spectre of the 2016 final rules are pending,...

there are some glimmers, such as this one:

Texas company offers to take nuclear waste for interim storage


but keep in mind the current administration at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue orchestrated the flawless backdoor lawyer method to shelve Skull Valley without ever having to take the public and principled stand that they are anti-nuke,....

I expect Texas may have a better hand to play than Skull Valley did, unless some Austin centric politicos take over in the state houses and gov's mansion,...

there may be some future in thorium and salt reactors,...

after there is a public flagellation of the current BWR/PWR portfolios as being "bad" nuclear power as opposed to the "good" nuclear power promised by thorium/salts and perhaps even more research billions (or is it trillions by now?) for fusion,...

ah well, we'll see,.... [coffee]

almost forgot (sic),.... 4 beercort,...

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Rerun on Jun 01, 2015, 12:35 ---Gas and poor management is killing the nuclear industry subsidized wind is not .

--- End quote ---

Not exactly true, there are plenty of good deals given to the tax credit shredders...

Exactly.  Nuclear has been holding its own for decades on an unfair playing ground.  The fact that we have as many nukes left as we do and that they ARE actually building new ones in spite of historically know cost over-runs is just a testament to the stalwart that nuclear power is.  The naysayers and ax-grinders never bring these points up they constantly harp on how cheap wind and solar and natty gas are.  There is some truth but the other side of the story is never brought up.  Keep grinding your ax similar to straight up polarized democrats and republicans.


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