Need some advice

[chemEnuke]

My situation right now is thinking about committing 6 years of my life to be a Navy Nuke and going through the process of becoming a Officer. I am a senior in an accredited NJ school majoring in Chemical Engineering where i have a year left to get my degree and this is when i approached the Navy Officer Recruiter at the local career fair. My GPA is a 3.0 and i had one internship at PSEG to start a career path in Nuclear/Energy. I have personally talked to a Navy vet for over 20 years and another friend who went through the NUPOC program recently, both who told me the benefits and downfalls.

My main concern is if i serve 6 & get out, how is the career outlook afterwards? My goal is if going through with the Navy so i can get the benefit of being around a nuclear plant and then finding a job in this sector back in the civilian world. Can this process really achieve my goal? From what i assume, i would be gaining a set of leadership skills and being able to serve the country and then after if i decide to not resign, i would leave and land a top engineering job at a nuclear plant because of my experience and skills. I appreciate everyone's input and need everything i could get to make a decision. I also don't know if this is relevant  but i am very interested in being a sub officer.  

[HeavyD]

As a Nuke SWO or Nuke Sub officer, you'll do very close to zero work that an engineering department in the civilian sector would equate to engineering experience.

You would be better positioned to be a Direct SRO than an engineer.

Officers are the program managers, along with direct input and influence from the Chiefs Mess, for the Navy's program.  Ensuring program compliance and accomplishment, sailor evaluation, and driving the ship (mainly as a SWO) are your primary roles as a Nuke officer.  At your 6 year point, you'll be a LT.  If you extend your commission, you will get an opportunity to go to a shore billet.  As to what that may be, there are others here that can speak with better clarity and certainty than myself.

If you're looking to be an officer for the higher pay while on Active Duty and the possible engineering experience, you're probably choosing for the wrong reasons.  Just my 2 cents.

Best of luck to you!

[chemEnuke]

I appreciate your comment. I have done my research and read many posts on here. Given everyone has a different situation and different view in why they want to join the Navy, one of my main reasons is getting the experience to kick start a Nuclear career after my duty. I may be stubborn thinking if i join to be an officer and get to be on a submarine, i will have already seen how a nuclear plant runs and know the ins and out which will help my resume in finding a good nuclear eng job after if i dont extend my commish. Yet again your input sound similar that this is not a eng job and its for the wrong reason, so you may know more than me. I am 21 and im thinking this is a good opportunity for me from my stance.

My recruiter has said also that since im in school, i will be getting 5 grand a month to finish my school. (E6 pay). i think till my end of my training. 15-20k signing bonus. 2g after prototype. Then 0-1 ensign makes 55-60k. LT make 85k. by the time i got out.   

I know i would be better qualified as a nuclear operator than an engineer. I also know that the Navy have Nuclear Engineers in D.C, which i could transfer to according to my recruiter.  But my question/concern is, landing a career in the Nuclear world after serving 6 years a better chance than just having a Bachelor Degree in Chemical Eng?? Also landing your desirable job after college is very hard without experience which is why i want to do this.

[spekkio]

I appreciate your comment. I have done my research and read many posts on here. Given everyone has a different situation and different view in why they want to join the Navy, one of my main reasons is getting the experience to kick start a Nuclear career after my duty.

You are probably in the wrong sub-forum here. There are lots of posters in other sections that deal with hiring in nuclear utility plants. The gist I've gotten from most of them is that the Navy is pretty much career-neutral when it comes to your job prospects.

[aldonola]

"My main concern is if i serve 6 & get out, how is the career outlook afterwards? My goal is if going through with the Navy so i can get the benefit of being around a nuclear plant and then finding a job in this sector back in the civilian world. Can this process really achieve my goal?"

6 and out won't be a problem. Neither will your degree if you opt to go into Operations. Chem Eng will limit your options if you decide to go into Engineering, as most entry level positions call for Civil, Mech, Elec, etc. Yes, you will be considered entry level.

Assuming you want to become an operator, 6 years as a nuke officer will prepare you very well technically. As far as the assumed leadership skills, prepare yourself for the civilian industry to be unimpressed. Too many former nuke JOs have tried and failed as leaders for an civilian nuke employer to assume you have any significant skills in that area. This includes USNA grads. I'm not trying to belittle anyone or say that YOU aren't a great leader in the making, but nuke JO experience is not a gimme for leadership roles. You, along with former enlisted nuke applicants  will certainly have a leg up on recent college grads.

Regardless, employers will give you an opportunity to prove yourself as a leader after you are hired. If you can make it though 6 years as a nuke JO, I'd interview you. Then, assuming you can pass the POSS aptitude test (should be no problem) and can speak articulately about your experiences and what you have learned about yourself, you could very well wind up with an offer.

[Rerun]

6 and out won't get you anywhere. Where exactly does a Lt make 85K?

[chemEnuke]

6 and out won't get you anywhere. Where exactly does a Lt make 85K?

My recruiter who is Surface is a LT and told me he makes 85k. How many years do you think will "get me somewhere"?  

I have been researching and thinking long about this situation and where it could get me in the future. I have even been considering the Coast Guard for some engineering work. I like the idea about being around a nuclear plant and building a better character for myself. It does not bother me to try and experience new things other people can not do. Whether i stay in for 6 & get out or stay 10 years or 20, i like to set up my future that i work hard for. I want to be an engineer which is goal, whether its going to be in the Navy or when i get out of the Navy. This meaning i want to be a Nuclear Engineer specifically to and perhaps even get a Masters.

My question is, does the Navy provide that for me? Whether it will be with the Navy or outside the Navy after lets say a 6 year tour only. 

[Marlin]

My recruiter who is Surface is a LT and told me he makes 85k. How many years do you think will "get me somewhere"?  

I have been researching and thinking long about this situation and where it could get me in the future. I have even been considering the Coast Guard for some engineering work. I like the idea about being around a nuclear plant and building a better character for myself. It does not bother me to try and experience new things other people can not do. Whether i stay in for 6 & get out or stay 10 years or 20, i like to set up my future that i work hard for. I want to be an engineer which is goal, whether its going to be in the Navy or when i get out of the Navy. This meaning i want to be a Nuclear Engineer specifically to and perhaps even get a Masters.

My question is, does the Navy provide that for me? Whether it will be with the Navy or outside the Navy after lets say a 6 year tour only. 

Base pay

https://www.navycs.com/charts/2016-military-pay-chart.html

LT is O-3, at six years it is 5540/month 66,480/year

Maybe he was including living allowances.

[chemEnuke]

Base pay

https://www.navycs.com/charts/2016-military-pay-chart.html

LT is O-3, at six years it is 5540/month 66,480/year

Maybe he was including living allowances.

He probably was. If i get selected for the Navy Nuke, do i get pick where i get based? Like San Diego, Hawaii, or CT? Also i would like an idea about what i said in the second post above this if someone reads that!

[Marlin]

He probably was. If i get selected for the Navy Nuke, do i get pick where i get based? Like San Diego, Hawaii, or CT? Also i would like an idea about what i said in the second post above this if someone reads that!

"Needs of the Navy" I would get accustomed to that. They will accommodate to some extent but the mission of the Navy will take first place.

[chemEnuke]

"Needs of the Navy" I would get accustomed to that. They will accommodate to some extent but the mission of the Navy will take first place.

I understand and that was a question for curiosity, i have no preference for that.

I am looking at the US Coast Guard and see more engineering options there, for example, Marine Engineering or Naval Engineering. I know i am asking a million questions but i am trying to gain a better perspective on what path to take. I am really leaning on joining either the NUPOC or Coast Guard then taking a civilian job right after college.

But like i said my main question, like i mentioned before, is after i get out whenever that will be, will this  experience add to my degree or would it be like i was fresh out of college again getting a entry level job?

[GLW]

kid you got way too many irons in the fire,...

you want to be sub officer but are considering the Coast Guard,...

you want to be sure if you go nuke there will be nukes to work at when you are back to being a civilian,...

oooooy,.....

the Navy nuke program will define you as trainable,...

a college degree will define you as educatable,...

a Navy (or Coast Guard) officer program will define you as able to organize, cooperate and lead within a structured format,...

your ability to finish all of the above will define you as a person who will most likely yield a good return on any investment,...

regardless of what you choose I will bet you 100 dollars here and now that if you come out of the USN or USCG in 6 to 7 years from now there will be fewer commercial nuclear power plants putting electrons through this nation's grid than there are today,...

FYI - there are 99 nukes on the grid today,...

in 6 to 7 years,...maybe 96,....maybe, most likely fewer,....

[chemEnuke]

kid you got way too many irons in the fire,...

you want to be sub officer but are considering the Coast Guard,...

you want to be sure if you go nuke there will be nukes to work at when you are back to being a civilian,...

oooooy,.....

the Navy nuke program will define you as trainable,...

a college degree will define you as educatable,...

a Navy (or Coast Guard) officer program will define you as able to organize, cooperate and lead within a structured format,...

your ability to finish all of the above will define you as a person who will most likely yield a good return on any investment,...

regardless of what you choose I will bet you 100 dollars here and now that if you come out of the USN or USCG in 6 to 7 years from now there will be fewer commercial nuclear power plants putting electrons through this nation's grid than there are today,...

FYI - there are 99 nukes on the grid today,...

in 6 to 7 years,...maybe 96,....maybe, most likely fewer,....

Thank you for being so direct GLW. My fear is not because i am indecisive. I worry in how i should proceed with this path for a better outlook back in civilian world. My gut is saying USCG. But talking to the CG recruiter, i cant join until after i get my degree and the selection is so competitive given my GPA is a 2.96, she said i need it to be a 3.2-3.4 and as an engineer i can be put anywhere they need me, so i cant specifically be a Marine Engineer if i wanted to.

My Navy Recruiter and I, started the screening process to get me on the VIP trip and after all physical and MEPS are the interviews. While i can still finish my degree, get paid, then go to OCS. This seems more appealing because of the nuclear reactors especially hence given my degree if i finish but USCG is something worth looking at.

[GLW]

............and the selection is so competitive given my GPA is a 2.96, she said i need it to be a 3.2-3.4........

yup, the world does work that way, they may not keep score in the lalaloopsey land of primary (and some secondary) education, but the real world does, and always will,...

....I am a senior in an accredited NJ school majoring in Chemical Engineering where i have a year left to get my degree.....

that's some pretty rarified company you're keeping there,...

keep hitting it, you'll get somewhere other than your parent's basement, live long and prosper,...

gotta go, gettin' sappy,...

[chemEnuke]

Well naming my school would not change my situation now would it? Just saying.

Also My recruiter said Navy nukes are accepting a 2.8+ GPA and i think i want to go ahead with the applications and do the VIP trip first. Some more info about me, i had cancer when i was young, so i need to submit medical records soon to him. He said that should not be a problem since i was in remission a long time.
Also i have a dual citizenship and i have a another country ID (not a passport), i know i need to renounce my foreign passport but i could keep my ID since it isn't a passport.

I have been doing a lot of think and after a lot of research, being a Navy Nuke is what i want to be. For myself and my country. How long do u think applications will take to finish before i could get in the program? My gpa is actually 2.96 (not a 3.0, that was my bad), hopefully after this semester it will be a 3.0+.

[spekkio]

6 and out won't get you anywhere. Where exactly does a Lt make 85K?

I made $126 in Cali and only paid ~$12k in taxes (half of which is owed to SS/Medicare 'insurance', just in case anyone on here doesn't count them as taxes). That includes state taxes, which are $0. In CT I make $117 and change, similar tax liability.

With the 'rent a nuke' instead of a contract you can drop that to $102. The Navy pays you over $350,000 in benefits to stay past 6 years when you include the 9/11 GI bill transferred to dependents, grad ed, and the COPAY bonus, so there's that.

You have to look up: base pay 4-6+, sub pay 4-6+, BAH, and BAS, and COPAY rates at a minimum...then there's COLA rates for some duty stations and a massive tax advantage.

The downside is that moving a lot complicates your ability to build equity in a house, so in that way you end up being in a worse position long-term financially than people who make as low as 65% of your salary.

LT is O-3, at six years it is 5540/month 66,480/year

Using the average BAH, an O-3 can expect to get about $8,500 a month deposited into his account, give or take, before any taxes or deductions. Allowances, pay, special pays, who gives a s***. That's the bottom line. That doesn't include the annual bonus.

[spekkio]

But like i said my main question, like i mentioned before, is after i get out whenever that will be, will this  experience add to my degree or would it be like i was fresh out of college again getting a entry level job?

Pretty much fresh out of college, except a bit worse because you spent 6 years not using your engineering education.

You can alleviate this by doing a grad degree using the 9/11 gi bill. There are grad ed opportunities in the Navy, but they incur a DH tour commitment and then you're back to this conundrum of being very educated with little to no relevant experience. Also, there is no guarantee that you get a grad ed billet...you could list that as #1 and find yourself detailed to prototype or some far-off place like Bahrain.

[GLW]

FYI - there are 99 nukes on the grid today,...

Update,...with Watts Bar getting licensed there are 100 nukes "on the grid" today,...

in 6 to 7 years,...maybe 96,....maybe, most likely fewer,....

still the most likely scenario,...

[Ksheed]

Update,...with Watts Bar getting licensed there are 100 nukes "on the grid" today,...

Heavy emphasis on the quote marks. They have a license, they have yet to load fuel. Not quite on the grid yet, but it does appear to be eminent.

[GLW]

Heavy emphasis on the quote marks. They have a license, they have yet to load fuel. Not quite on the grid yet, but it does appear to be eminent.

That's why they're there,.....

[chemEnuke]

Just an update  .

I didnt pass my academic pre-screen due to my low SATs scores. Surprised my recruiter actually and bummed me out, however, i decided to retake my SATS in December, of course with my part-time job and full time school schedule, this should be a challenge. Hopefully i get the 1100 (math + reading) compared to the 990 i got 4 years ago. I did all 3 Calcs and Diffy Q so im aiming for that 800 on the math section.

Pretty much fresh out of college, except a bit worse because you spent 6 years not using your engineering education.

You can alleviate this by doing a grad degree using the 9/11 gi bill. There are grad ed opportunities in the Navy, but they incur a DH tour commitment and then you're back to this conundrum of being very educated with little to no relevant experience. Also, there is no guarantee that you get a grad ed billet...you could list that as #1 and find yourself detailed to prototype or some far-off place like Bahrain.

I read many comments similar to this and i read many other comments that said the benefit is that it gets my foot in the door. I will see how things go after i take my SATs but i think NUPOC is going to be a great opportunity for me individually and professionally. i know how being a submarine officer, really don't do much engineering but you do have some exposure to it and trained to be a nuclear operator which is why i also want to do it. My plan is to get in the Nuclear/Energy Industry whenever i decide to get out of the Navy.

My recruiter said if things dont go well, there is an opportunity for Surface Warfare Engineering Duty Officer (He said this was more of an engineering role as well), don't know what this entails, so can someone elaborate?  

[spekkio]

EDO is only an option post DH (about 11 years of service). If you want to do EDO then finish college and apply directly.

[chemEnuke]

EDO is only an option post DH (about 11 years of service). If you want to do EDO then finish college and apply directly.

What does an EDO do and what is its training/pay/experience/role etc? He said that i can finish college and apply for that if i dont get the pre-screen again if i wanted to.

[Gamecock]

EDO is only an option post DH (about 11 years of service). If you want to do EDO then finish college and apply directly.

EDO does not direct commission.  They want you to be warfare qualified prior to joining the community.  There are direct commission billets that are called EDO option.  This allows you to be pre-selected, once warfare qualified as a SWO, or after DH ride as a submariner, you lateral transfer without board action. 

Cheers,

GC

[cheme09]

First you have a 3.0, but then a 2.96, then you ask if naming your university would help any, then you come out and say you didn't even break 1k on your SATs. Isn't the lowest score on each section like 300? Navy Nuke is most likely only taking cream of the crop.

So you found out your LT recruiter makes 85k? How long has he been an LT? Did you care to ask what an Ensign would make? It takes 4 years to make LT. I've been at my plant for just under 4 years and almost hit the 85k mark my second year, all without going underway or moving.

If you REAAALLLY want that leadership education and experience and genuinely have the desire to serve the country, then continue looking at the armed forces, but realize you probably won't end up in a nuke billet. If you want a nuke career, stay on track with school and try to convert your internship into a job offer. Leadership is a skill you can develop outside the military.

[spekkio]

EDO does not direct commission.  They want you to be warfare qualified prior to joining the community.  There are direct commission billets that are called EDO option.  This allows you to be pre-selected, once warfare qualified as a SWO, or after DH ride as a submariner, you lateral transfer without board action. 

Cheers,

GC

All true and what I meant by apply directly. They also have a similar process with IW/IP. You get a SWO pin and lat xfer immediately. Either way going submarines first is not the best way to get there.

[chemEnuke]

First you have a 3.0, but then a 2.96, then you ask if naming your university would help any, then you come out and say you didn't even break 1k on your SATs. Isn't the lowest score on each section like 300? Navy Nuke is most likely only taking cream of the crop.

So you found out your LT recruiter makes 85k? How long has he been an LT? Did you care to ask what an Ensign would make? It takes 4 years to make LT. I've been at my plant for just under 4 years and almost hit the 85k mark my second year, all without going underway or moving.

If you REAAALLLY want that leadership education and experience and genuinely have the desire to serve the country, then continue looking at the armed forces, but realize you probably won't end up in a nuke billet. If you want a nuke career, stay on track with school and try to convert your internship into a job offer. Leadership is a skill you can develop outside the military.

Thank you for your input, but i estimated my gpa to 3.0 but it is relatively near a 2.96 and i did not ask if naming my university is important. If you see the comment before that, he asked why i was keeping my university a secret because in my post i stated "I go to a accredited university".

ALSO i do know how much a O-1 ensign makes before any other rank because of the research i did and i asked him personally. I plan on finishing my school before anything else. On my SATs i got a 540 and 450, so yeah that is not on the 300 level. I came out with the SATs after i got declined with the pre screen because i did not think the NAVY still cares about my SATs while im almost done with college. Is there any more assumptions you will like to jump on and question me for?

I appreciate you sharing personal experience, i am also looking at my options from college to industry as well so that is not out of the picture. I just will take my SATs again soon and see how i score on them again. 

[GLW]

..........Leadership is a skill you can develop outside the military.

not true,...

management is a skill,...

leadership is innate,...

we settled this years ago,...

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,26372.0.html

 

[Marlin]

settled

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,26372.0.html

 

 

[spekkio]

stuff... 

You're not doing a great job of listening to the advice given to you.

If your GPA stays at 3.0 then re-taking the SATs isn't going to make a lick of difference - you won't get into either the NUPOC or SWO/EDO program.