Navy Nuke LDO

[scruffyspy]

Hello everyone.

I am an Eagle Scout currently working my way through a nuclear engineering degree at a reactor and as a fast food assistant manager.  I am taking all the Navy ROTC classes I can fit in my schedule and my technical electives are in naval engineering and  marine acoustics engineering from the ocean engineering department.  I will be graduating with minors in military science, math and health physics.

It is taking me a bit longer than usual since I had a  family/medical (relative was deliberately poisoned among other things) crisis that required me to drop out at one point and left me with a 3.3 GPA but three D's in core technical courses.  I also need a medical waiver since I had been diagnosed with anxiety  during said family/medical crisis.  The officer recruiter I talked too was very professional but was very skeptical of me being selected for Nuclear OCS.  I talked about passing the FE exam and getting a masters if I have enough money left which he thought was a good idea.

I was told that I needed two years with no drugs/symptoms and then had to be cleared by MEPS and I would need an academic waiver which was unlikely for an officer. My psych says I am in perfect mental health and was happy to write anything needed for a medical waiver.  This basically means I would need to go in as an enlisted man.

My family comes from a long line of Merchant Marine/Navy/Marines types of folks going back a 100 years and back into the Prussian military.  Other than the marines the men in my family have all been high level technical experts for the Navy/Merchant Marine.  My dad is the exception to this.  I am determined to join the nuclear Navy. 

Should I even bother applying for OCS?

I know Nuclear LDOs can't command, but is there a process where they can be assigned to subs?

Any help suggestions with waivers would be much appreciated.  I am going to talk to an enlisted recruiter next time I get the chance.

[HeavyD]

Nuclear LDOs are prior enlisted personnel selected for commissioning as subject matter experts.

To be eligible, an individual must have a minimum of 8 years active duty and be an E-6 or above.

LDOs are not eligible for command because they are selected to be technical assistants and subject matter experts in nuclear propulsion plant operations, maintenance and repair.

So, Nuclear LDO is closed to you.  Unless you were asking about Direct Input LDOs which serve as Power School instructors.  Those individuals are selected and commissioned to be instructors at Nuclear Power School, not to work towards a command or be subject matter experts on actual plant operations or even understand how the various subjects that they teach are integrated together to make a plant operate.

A question before closing out my reply; did you mean you are working on a degree at a university that has a research reactor?

Your post says:

currently working my way through a nuclear engineering degree at a reactor

which, taken as written, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

[Tylor]

Since you're talking about going enlisted first, I'm assuming you aren't talking about becoming a Direct Input Limited Duty Officer. If you haven't talked to your recruiter about that possibility then I recommend getting more information.
I'm not sure about the exact selection criteria for DIOs, my knowledge is from coming through the pipeline and being a prototype instructor. DIOs receive a commission for a limited time (from what I know it's about 4 years, not sure if that counts training) and they teach Nuclear Power School and can now become instructors at the prototype units in NY and SC.
After your 4 (or so) years, you can submit a package to stay in the navy, but transfer to another field. Unfortunately, in the limited time I spent in contact with the DIOs, I never saw one transfer into the nuclear field. Mainly supply corps.
Best of luck!

[Gamecock]

You are not going to become any flavor of direct commission nuke officer, whether it be as a power school instructor or a line officer, with 3 D's on your transcript in technical courses.  

Cheers,

GC

[HeavyD]

You are not going to become any flavor of direct commission nuke officer, whether it be as a power school instructor or a line officer, with 3 D's on your transcript in technical courses. 

Cheers,

GC

This is the biggest hurdle to any direct commissioning for you.  The nuclear field is a technical field, therefore past failures in technical courses are seen as a precursor to future failures. 

Also, there's one vital point you have yet to mention.  Why do you want to join the nuclear Navy?

If your goal is to work in the commercial nuclear world eventually, then going in the Navy won't really benefit you more than your current education path.  You won't do any engineering work, realistically, in the Navy.  You would gain practical experience on a power plant, but you would be doing so at the expense of 6 years, minimum, of your life.  Those same 6 years could be spent at a commercial plant, gaining some of the same experience, with opportunities to be an actual engineer.

I'm not trying to persuade you to not join.  If you join, it needs to be because that's what you want, to join the U. S. Navy and serve the interests of others for those 6 years.

Think on it and again, best of luck.

[GLW]

the Navy does not need only nukes,...

take some time to yourself next to a body of water and reflect,...

pray if it suits you,...

IF SERVICE is your primary goal, if service is your calling,...

THEN turning your back on service because you cannot be a Navy nuke would be a personal conceit,...

THAT would indicate you were never fundamentally striving to serve, you just wanted what you wanted and service was part of the deal,...

which is very common and completely legitimate in our capitalistic, entrepreneurial system of looking out for yourself,...

the honour and pure heart of service for the sake of service,...

that is uncommon,...

you do not need to be a Navy nuke to be a technically oriented officer in the USN who serves with honor and distinction,...

you will have to accommodate and adapt your wants to the needs of the Navy,...

and you will have to reconcile those dichotomies often during the course of a Navy career,...

begin by absorbing the wisdom from the smart guys here who took time out of their holiday season to respond to a complete stranger's request for counsel,...

it may only seem to be a few minutes of their time, but every minute is a step closer to death and no man cheats death, so every minute is precious, and should be respected as such,...

the smart guys have been there and dun that,...

your move,...










peace,...GLW [former ELT-MM1/SS (Sometime Soliloquist)   ]

[spekkio]

Hello everyone.

I am an Eagle Scout currently working my way through a nuclear engineering degree at a reactor and as a fast food assistant manager.  I am taking all the Navy ROTC classes I can fit in my schedule and my technical electives are in naval engineering and  marine acoustics engineering from the ocean engineering department.  I will be graduating with minors in military science, math and health physics.

It is taking me a bit longer than usual since I had a  family/medical (relative was deliberately poisoned among other things) crisis that required me to drop out at one point and left me with a 3.3 GPA but three D's in core technical courses.  I also need a medical waiver since I had been diagnosed with anxiety  during said family/medical crisis.  The officer recruiter I talked too was very professional but was very skeptical of me being selected for Nuclear OCS.  I talked about passing the FE exam and getting a masters if I have enough money left which he thought was a good idea.

I was told that I needed two years with no drugs/symptoms and then had to be cleared by MEPS and I would need an academic waiver which was unlikely for an officer. My psych says I am in perfect mental health and was happy to write anything needed for a medical waiver.  This basically means I would need to go in as an enlisted man.

My family comes from a long line of Merchant Marine/Navy/Marines types of folks going back a 100 years and back into the Prussian military.  Other than the marines the men in my family have all been high level technical experts for the Navy/Merchant Marine.  My dad is the exception to this.  I am determined to join the nuclear Navy. 

Should I even bother applying for OCS?

I know Nuclear LDOs can't command, but is there a process where they can be assigned to subs?

Any help suggestions with waivers would be much appreciated.  I am going to talk to an enlisted recruiter next time I get the chance.

The Navy nuke program is pretty much going to just consider your technical coursework when you apply for the program. Ergo, your 3.3 overall GPA isn't really going to save you in that regard. You should ask your officer recruiter if the Navy looks at the last grade or both if you re-take those courses; if the Navy only cares about the latter then it might be worth re-taking them.

If you are interesting as serving as an officer and not just nuke, there are several other options available to you with a solid GPA via OCS - namely SWO (also with IP/IW options), pilot, NFO, and supply. All of those would be contingent on scoring well on the ASTB.

If it's nuke or bust then your only chance is to enlist. Just be aware that the job, pay, and overall quality of life between officer and enlisted is going to be radically different. Enlisting won't erase bad grades in technical courses. As far as LDO goes, that requires at least 8 years of service and the rate of E-6 or above, and it is a highly competitive program.

If the previous anxiety is a deal breaker, then it will be a deal breaker for both officer and enlisted.

[scruffyspy]

Thanks for all the replies and advice.  I am currently working 14 hour shifts through the holidays to pay for school so I have been a bit busy.

My dad is a computer IT exec and does a lot of overseas work, when I was 8 I got to visit China.  Sadly the memory that stands out is our accidental run in with the Chinese secret police.  I was held at gunpoint by an AK, my dad was held up by a belt fed machine gun, plus my little brother almost got shot and we watched some guy get beaten and thrown in a truck.  Some corrupt Chinese businessman paid off the Chinese intelligence services to go after my father at one point.  It gave me an interesting perspective that others lacked.

I have watched the nonsense in the South China Sea and I am filled with much hatred and disgust for the Chinese govt.  Just reading the news sometimes fills me with rage.  I believe that a war is a matter of when, not if.  I have always been a leader since Boy Scouts and want to lead men into combat.

I chose nuclear engineering at random because it had a lot of physics and I was always a physics geek.  When I saw the officer recruiter I knew what I wanted to do with my life for the first time and have developed a strong work ethic that previously was lacking and a desire to be a technical expert rather than the minimum to pass.

Generally my plan now is to finish my degree and then enlist while getting enough graduate education to convince the board I am officer material, then apply for OCS after a sea tour and doing well at nuke school.  Hopefully if I work hard enough and prove myself in the fleet the Navy will look past my previous laziness and problems caused by my insane family issues and grant me a commission.

[spekkio]

Generally my plan now is to finish my degree and then enlist while getting enough graduate education to convince the board I am officer material, then apply for OCS after a sea tour and doing well at nuke school.  Hopefully if I work hard enough and prove myself in the fleet the Navy will look past my previous laziness and problems caused by my insane family issues and grant me a commission.

This is a bad plan.

It's easier to get into OCS from a civilian than while enlisted. More importantly, your enlistment will not change your qualifications for officer programs - in fact it will work against you because there are age limits at play. Those limits are waiverable for up to 2 years with prior enlisted service, but the board is under no obligation to grant the waiver.

Also, enlisting as a nuke will mean you have little to no time to maintain physical fitness. Every prior nuke at OCS when I went through was held back a few weeks because they couldn't pass the in PRT. While PT at OCS isn't particularly difficult, the DIs at OCS hold you to rigorous form standards - half pushups and situps don't count and you have to do the run, unlike the fleet where it's more lax and you can elect to do the bike or elliptical if you are out of running shape.

Graduate education will be very difficult if not impossible to achieve during your initial obligation. You will be too busy learning to do and actually doing your job. Additionally, it won't really help your officer package unless you are just trying to raise your GPA. If you have a 3.3 GPA, then there's really nothing that grad ed will do for you regarding a commissioning program. You can explain the few bad grades in your application, and taking ownership of your shortcomings (which you seem to have done) is key.

If you want a commission then finish your degree and apply for a program for which you are qualified. A 3.3 GPA with a good ASTB score would qualify you for several options.

PS: War with China is not on the horizon anytime soon, particularly not a blue water naval battle. They don't even have much of a Navy, in fact their national strategy is to build cheap long-range missiles rather than big expensive ships. I understand your misgivings about them, but the U.S. and China are very close economic partners and that is going to stave off any military conflict.

Moreover, if your overall goal is to lead men into combat you are joining the wrong service, let alone the wrong community by going nuke. The name of the game these days is power projection and intel gathering, the only guys seeing action are hornet pilots and SEALs (I'm not counting executing a TLAM strike as combat). I don't see a WWII type naval war happening in the next 20-30 years, the world is a different place and technology is more advanced. Modern naval 'combat' is launching ordinance over the horizon at targets fed to the ship through networked communications rather than organic sensors. In layman's terms, you would be supervising Sailors who operate computers to shoot missiles at targets that can't shoot back.

If officer is the goal when you say 'leading men into combat,' you are pretty much left with going Marines since the Army doesn't take many infantry, armor, or artillery officers from OCS if there are even any billets available when you apply... but even the Marines don't assign you to a community until after you complete OCS, you can only apply for ground or air... so if they don't think you have the skills and charisma to be an infantry officer then off to logistics you go.  OTOH, you can always enlist in the Army or Marines for an infantry MOS, since the actual 'leading of men in combat' comes primarily from the NCOs.

[GLW]

......

Generally my plan now is to....
......

Generally, your plan is to piddle away your ever decreasing window of opportunity,...

what is being dealt to you here is reality,...

myself and others can type away on this paradigm for thousands of words all referenced from literally hundreds of experience years,...

but you're probably bound and determined to do it your way and good luck with that,...

if you make that one in ten thousand(?) jump from enlisted nuke to battle group commanding officer bravo for you,...

if you make that transition from glorified bilge scrubber to CIVLANT because of all the BS and hurdles the Needs of the Navy put in your way to being a battle group commander,...

well,.................you were warned,...

OBTW,....we're not recruiters, only a bunch of been there and dun thats,...

here's a post to help with your reality check, and then I'm done and no more soapbox,...

https://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,38474.msg185325.html#msg185325

good luck,...