Sooo, Why Haven't the Roadrats organized?

[Luscious]

:-/, So let us see, there is the debate between house mice and road rats, and debates between different plants, but the future is now.

The days of long outages are long gone, every major nuclear company is pushing for record setting outages, Major nuclear players are sending their permanent staff on the road, and extremely few young people are coming into the field. Additionally, the number of contract companies are dwindling, I can remember the days when the was at least a dozen "Nuclear Service Companies" that supplied techs, etc. Now there is only two.

So why then is there not a new concerted effort to organize the roadies, so they get paid a decent wage and per diem?

Having asked this question of several roadies, I get response that range from, "Yeah I would like to do that but have no time" to " You can not get two people to stand together".

So what really is preventing the roadies from organizing Numanco and the non "Bartlett Services" division of Bartlett?

[ARYAN]

CHICKENS!!!!

[SloGlo]

last road block to organizing was ibew l.u. 1500; before that it was the ocaw.

[Nuclear NASCAR]

What's the story behind that SloGlo?  I'm not up on a lot of the history.

[SloGlo]

'k, like real quick...
ocaw = oil chemical & atomic workers did some recruiting and rousing for union representation among road teks during the late 70s.  unfortunately, they had a hard time organizing local homebodies, didn't do too well, and got blown away by the logistics of road teks organization.
fast forward to the 80-90s.... international brotherhod of electrical workers solved the roadies problem.  they created local 1500, which served only road teks and had hp, decon, 'n i believe chemists all included.  they started organizing in the late 80s, got enough signatories to go to the mats and called a nationwide strike in 1990.  it failed miserably.   the ibew didn't have reps at most of the strike sites.  they didn't provide technical guidance for basics such as language on signs.   it was basically over with in 3 days.  they maintained an office in washington, dc for a few years, complete with officers.  it may still be there for all i know.
there have been others, i'm sure additional posts are on the way.

[Carolina Jethro]

I remember the 1990 so called strike well... I was a house tech then and I saw contractors last about an hour when some of companies came to picket lines and said " get in the plant now or you won't have a job!" Since some techs can't make it to next check they started crossing in droves. I have been at a job since where the company changed the pay scale once we were at site and the techs agreed to walk. Well when I walked the next day... it was a lonely trip. I figure nothing is going to change... too easy for people to get in field so a lot of techs are scared to rock the boat.

[RADBASTARD]

I walked in 90 and the ibew failed us big time they didn't do squat for us.No reps., No advice,No direction.Ibew SUX!

Lets face it an be honest most hp's are spinless jelly fish and are afraid to lose their jobs and we can't even agree on a dose rate let alone do join together. Some would stab their own mother in the back if it ment they could stay a extra week.
Now there are only a few hp companies so you can't burn to many bridges like in the past.
We are all self centered and only worry about #1.
That sounds mean but it is the nature of the business.
Nobody else is gonna take care of you,but you.

The ones that really hurt the business is the locals that will work for alot less to stay next to their homes than just say no so that their company has to raise wages.I do understand that people want to be with their love ones and I am all for that,but that is one of the major hurdles that hurt us with wages.I haven't gone back to my home plant since 91 and I like to think it helped a little by doing my part not going to jack up the wages, for the lonest time they had a hell of a time staffing and now the pay at the top end.

The utilities think we are nothing more than the common knuckledragger that works in the plants,but we have to take a test.The knuckledraggers even make more money than the hp's and deconners.

JUST SAYING MY 2 CENTS

[alphadude]

basically, u have a thousand different personalities with RATs.  no two can agree on the same issues and politics which are needed to organise.  we can see some of that here!  the infamous black lists of the past, different pay rates for the sweeties, promotion in RAT companies of total loosers and devious individuals, egos, etc all contribute to the inability to organise.  individuals can't function as a team without a strong leader. unions usually dont fuction that way!

oh yea! for u Bush fans, the present adminstration is anti-union!

[Chelios]

It seems to me that the problem is organizing, and not at just one plant. It would have to be nationwide and be recognized by all the plants. Contracts would have to be negotiated and signed. The effort would be monumental and would take an enormous amount of time. Who can do that, work outages, look for work between outages, and have time for family. I believe most roadies look for the jobs they want and apparently the pay and perdiem are sufficient. If it gets bad enough, the interest will pickup. I don't believe that it will ever become viable unless congress passes a law.

[Luscious]

Alright;

Now we have some of the excuses, and some of the history, and hope that everyone knows that it does not have to be IBEW, again I ask why not organize?

FWIW, take a hard look at the travelling crafts, in the north, they are all organized and play shop lines/work division strictly.

Take the Millwrights, the boilermakers, the carpenters, the laborers, etc. for the most part they are all organized union workers!

There is no reason why HP rent a techs, deconners, etc can not be organized. The motto is organize or die!

I do not think we need long winded discourses as to the benefits of being represented by a union, and there is no doubt that there will be growing pains. Hell if the migrant farm workers in California organized years ago, (some with questionable immigration status), again, there is no reason why road techs can not organize. It just takes collective action, and I assert that now that there is only a handful of contract companies that it would be easier now than in the past.

As for the plants recognizing a union, legally they have no choice in non-right to work states, and one of the major goals of the AFL-CIO is to organize unorganized labor, so there are resources available.

... for now

[alphadude]

the horse is dead my man!  i understand your angst, but it ain't gonna happen. the psychology is not there!!  ive work around RATs for 30 years and they will never figure it out nor do they want too! to get the ball rolling in your favor u need about $100k to do it based on the logistics and hot dog suppers u would need.  the spirits are not willin!!  im sure u have studied the history of unions... thats the moxie it took to get those crafts organized.  techs dont have that... no reason too... they prefer migrant nuclear worker status to skilled craftsman.. oh well!!

[SloGlo]

the horse is dead my man!  i understand your angst, but it ain't gonna happen. the psychology is not there!!  ive work around RATs for 30 years and they will never figure it out nor do they want too! to get the ball rolling in your favor u need about $100k to do it based on the logistics and hot dog suppers u would need.  the spirits are not willin!!  im sure u have studied the history of unions... thats the moxie it took to get those crafts organized.  techs dont have that... no reason too... they prefer migrant nuclear worker status to skilled craftsman.. oh well!!

'fraid i hafta disagree here.  it would have happened in 90 if the ibew had done what they said they were going to do.  now, it will be harder expotentially due to bad feeling among the greybeards in the ranks.  besides, $100k ain't squat to the afl-cio groups, they pay over that to local presidents.  re:moxie.... sure, lots don't even know what it means.  but, there are plenty that not only know the meaning, but they apply it every day.  however, i am at a loss as to your meaning of "migrant nuclear worker status to skilled craftsman"... are you inferring that these are mutually exclusive terms?

[Rain Man]

All one has to do is following some of the postings on this board and it is self evident why organizing will be a dead issue for a long time to come.  At times people are to busy pissing on each other than to spend time on anything of substance.  Since 1977 I have been able to work when I wanted to work, even during the lean times.  Personally, I see no reason to organize.

[alphadude]

exploitation of the masses.....  for the benefit of a few??  (dang, thats old SWP quotes from the 60's..now how did i know about that??? )

the 100k is not to grease the wheels of the union, its to grease the wheels of those techs who are locked by their own egos..   that money is just for getting them all drunk so u can half ass brain wash them back to some state of awareness....

and the quote" if the union had done...." the union IS the people that wish it to happen!! the wish was not there.

it was... what is the union gonna do for me?? from that perspective- real answer- nothing..unions are paper contracts...its the workers and their will that get the job done in a collective...

what are u gonna do for you, road techs?..unfortunately the answer is the same..nothing!  

a powerful union exists from powerful workers..  this psychology is nothing new, and is discussed in most poly-sci classes.  organization takes several things.. a powerful leader, dont have to be the local pres.. exploitation which results in major economic loss and hardship, and awareness.. the souce of that hardship identified.   that was not the case with the hp tech attempt.  all had work or could get it. the work was not a hardship, pay was beyond the common mans dream for what is being done, and there wasnt any single whip to align the troops for battle... so it was a loss from the get go.

rainman has read the writing on the wall- i see!!

[Doc_REM]

Hey I was there...
Standing in the back of a pick-up truck giving the talkes to the workers. Where was 1500? setting back in D.C. with NO support!
How do you get 1500 to 2000 Rad Rats to agree?...
Working 60 to 84 hr's per week when you have work is hard to get veryone togehter...we can't even get 100 to go to a convention that supports our craft!!!!!!!!!!
Back in 1990 we stopped the outages for a total of 1 day. Then they brought in other tech's to take our place with a bonus in some places of up to $1000 for showing up...what does that say about our craft and our fellow worker's...EVERYONE IS OUT FOR THEIR OWN POCKET!
If you have a way to get everyone to gether to support this action PLEASE inform me, because I will stand behind you 100%.
Until then I need to work and make $$$$

[alphadude]

ohhhhh i know!  techs are not the type to organize- somewhere between craft and professional status.  i was in the union for 3 years.. why- cheap insurance! and believe me i got my monies worth.. also improved employee safety by being able to speak up without fear.  then i joined management and found methods to do the same thing without reprecussion. Oh well send this one to the glue factory!  

[SloGlo]

and the quote" if the union had done...." the union IS the people that wish it to happen!! the wish was not there.


then i joined management and found methods to do the same thing without reprecussion.
 

for the first, i was referencing the established union who was engaged in organizing activities.  the one who failed, with a capital f, to apply the technical details of labor law to those same workers it was attempting to organize.  l.u.1500 membership could not do what they didn't know.  the wish was there, alot of people took the 1st step and found out there was no footing there to support them.  cnn did not know of the strike.... i repeatly called them for coverage information that was not put on the air, and they had no knowledge of any union strike activity, not even when i ran the list of plants that i knew were being struck.  not good pr, was it?  'n the list goes on.
however, i am sincerely impressed by your work being done without repercussion.... 'n without any representation.  cheers [smiley=beerchug.gif]

[Walt Harris]

There is a lot of truth to the old saying “you can’t get two HP’s to agree on anything”. I saw two techs almost come to blows over smearing techniques!!

I was a part of the organizing fiasco in 89-90. I stood outside the fence at V.C. Summer, with a two-month-old baby at home. Although at the time it seemed to be for naught, pay rates did rise afterwards, at least at the sites I worked. Am I glad I did it?? Absolutely! Would I do it again?? Absolutely not!!

I sat back and listened to the pre-walk-trash-talk. In particular, one “big bad tech” (Doug K.), had a lady tech at Catawba in tears telling her what he would do if anyone crossed “his” picket line. Well, it turns out Mr. K. never “had” a picket line. He was one of the first to belly-flop back in. I respected anyone’s decision not to walk, but not the braggarts that bellied-up when faced with the reality of the situation. (By the way, that was the second time I was on a one-year probation with Bruce .. one week later I was working for them at Oconee!!) But you can bet those like Mr. K would have been pushing and shoving their way back into the mix if the organizational efforts had succeeded.

My money says it will never again get that far. As the “All-Wise-All Knowing” Rain Man says; I too have always found work in the slow times, and, have on several occasions turned down a job on the basis of pay or location. I am now a happy-cozy house-mouse, and happily non-union. Our local union force here (about 600 hourly workers) has been on the picket line since early February. The company and the union can’t seem to get together on a settlement, and the company is in NO hurry to end the strike as long as things are going smooth inside. I have many friends out there, but there is not enough “principle” that is worth 3, 4, or 6+ month’s pay.

I agreed to come to work here for less than I thought I should (for the opportunity to “settle-down”). But, we have gotten around a 30 percent increase in pay over the past ten years. If I lose my job to lay-offs, or if for some reason I decide I don’t like it here anymore, I will leave. Just what every RAT could/should do. Boycotts would be just as effective as a union, but as stated by several before, there are too many techs living pay check to pay check. It will never happen.

[Standard_Deviant]

"So why then is there not a new concerted effort to organize the roadies, so they get paid a decent wage and per diem? "


Please define decent wage. MFers makin 20 something/hr to read numbers off an instrument ain't a decent wage? Give me a break. No degree, no certification, no semblance of professionalism...same old crap. Ya know, its funny how those in this business who are worth a damn ain't the ones complainin...it's the knucklheads who are lucky to have jobs that think they should be paid as modern day Albert Einsteins!!!

Just my humble opinion.

[AMU]

After going through the 1990 union deal at CR, I would never again participate in any such activity.  About a week is what that deal lasted and then those who were doing the most union talking went right back into the plant.  The biggest problem with contract HP's, in general, is their inability to live up to a commitment.  Many lack integrity, many are under performers who are also over paid.  On the other hand, there are a few good HP's who represent themselves and industry in a very professional manner, who are way under paid.  

Unfortunately, it is the bad seeds in the business that get the most recognition, and that poor recognition in effect carries through to the rest of the industry.  The business is better off the way it currently is.  Those who truly are good will be treated as such and those bad seeds will be treated like the slugs they are.

[uRiaL]

[smiley=shockwhore.gif] I WAS AT CRYSTAL RIVER ALSO FOR THE GREAT ROADTECH WALKOUT.NO ONE WAS COMMITTED,I LOST MY JOB BECAUSE MY BUDDIES STARTED SNEAKING BACK INTO WORK.WHEN ALL WAS SAID AND DONE A CERTAIN NUCLEAR COMPANY SHOWED PICTURES OF ME AND MY EXWIFE PROTESTING. YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW THAT WENT .I TRIED TO RETURN TO WORK BUT ALL I GOT WAS A WHOLE BODY COUNT. I SAW SOME GOOD PEOPLE  GIVE IT THERE ALL,THEN SOME SNAKES BIT THEM.SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANYONE,BUT THAT STRIKE ,WHATEVER YOU MAY WANT TO CALL IT,SHOWED A LOT OF PEOPLES TRUE COLORS [smiley=argue.gif]

[RADBASTARD]

I was at  CR in 90 and the one thing I remember a certain tech on the back of a pick up saying together we stand divided we fall. Then when he heard we were getting laid off if we didn't go in friday,so he snuck back in on us.He was called BEN after that for benedict anold. We did have a good turn out that walk,I'd say about 98%. If I'm not mistaken only about 5-8 people from hp and decon crossed in the beginning,I maybe a little off but close.

[alphadude]

AMU the cream always floats to the top... and the curds to the bottom.  that cr strike was over before i even got to work!!  i though the mullet fishermen were protesting net ban again, however when i saw that most of the strikers had their teeth i knew something was up!  but not a lot!  as part of the staff we took bets that is would last a day  at the most.  

[AMU]

My stay at the plant was 3 weeks of training, 3 days or so of work, stand the line for the length of time necessary then got my outgoing bodycount to head back home.  There were definitely some tough talking heads in support of the union, just full of hot air they were.  The sad part of it was those crafts that had authorization to support the effort and stood the line for a few days, only to end up losing their jobs while the tough talking heads crossed the line to go back into work at the end of their stand.  When you take a stand, see it through to that end, but don’t cross a line and go back in.  The entire effort was poorly organized to begin with, had a couple really terrible union representatives.

[alphadude]

the bay of pigs operation for rent a tech!!

[skooter]

I was with AMU at CR. IBEW left out a big piece of National Labor Board law. We didn't need to strike at all. All we had to do was request a vote to organize. It takes about 3 months. That outage was long enough to have us there for a sufficient amount of time to vote. They may have had that vote. I don't know I ended up going to Fitz when I lost my job.
The outages are drastically shorter now. I don't believe there would be time to request a vote. Striking does not work, you can't force the law.

[uRiaL]

radbastard,in that case i should know you,the tech that jumped ship used to come in extra  early so noone could see him.  [smiley=beerchug.gif] [smiley=beerchug.gif]

[idrum4food]

We had a fairly good turnout at Hatch. Most stood the picket line for about a week. I remember cause I was a Jr. tech and had been outta work for about a month prior and needed the money Baaaaaaaaad but still supported the cause. Of course a few but when the strike was over, most got to return to work.

[spectrumanalyst]

I, too was a house tech in the late 70s when the IBEW was representing us.  We were treated as bastard step children and only some of us were actually in the union.  When I decided to join I was advised against it by the shop stewart so I never formally joined.  By 1985, the union was voted out.  It really doesn't matter whether you become part of a union or form your own union; what really matters is that the other unions recognize yours.  When you go on strike, you need their support as well.  That's why the strike failed.  Other unions crossed the picket line.  But times have changed and unions dont throw as much weight as they use to.  They may be more inclined to support us now in these hard economic times.  I'm still in favor of a union as long as we get the full support of one.  I have met many road techs and for a short time, was one myself, and most have complained of the conditions.  I am strongly considering returning to the road as our pay has drastically fell behind the inflation rate.  We are certified professionals yet we are not treated as such.  Not anyone can pass the DOE core or NEU test and that is reason enough to demand much higher pay and better benifits as many criss cross the country just trying to keep the bills paid.

[Rain Man]

 Not anyone can pass the DOE core or NEU test and that is reason enough to demand much higher pay and better benifits as many criss cross the country just trying to keep the bills paid.

Hate to say this, but I can teach my 14 year old nephew enough to pass the CORE and NEU tests.  They aren't that tough with a little effort but does passing them make you a competent HP?  I think not.  The HP lore, legends, and field experience will teach you to be a better tech than the test.  There is nothing more irritating than being tested on "what the function of the mitochondria of a cell is."  Technical expertise has its place to a degree but we aren't counting "schleptons" at Fermi Lab, we're mucking out the friggin' sumps.

[Chimera]

I gotta chip in my two cents worth on the issue of techs not being able to agree.

During Clinton's startup in the late 80's, there was a lot of friction in the plant between the various departments.  Somehow it was decided that the HP Techs were at the heart of all that friction and discord.  HP Supervision decided we needed "team building" training.  They made all of us, contractor and house tech alike come in on a Saturday to sit through a class from some professor at Southern Illinois University.  He was amazed to find out we came from all over the country, from various diverse backgrounds and represented several different age groups because we spoke with one voice on the things that were most important to us - issues such as teamwork, honor and trust.  I think we were all amazed at the professor's conclusions - primarily that we were NOT the source of all the friction.

I remember several attempts at "organizing" the road techs (showing my age again?).  My biggest objection at the time was the expectation that the people with the political moxie to move up within the union structure were the ones I didn't want representing me (I'll leave the names out, but I think we all know the handful of people back then that would have jumped at the chance to have that power).  

Would I like to make more money for what I do?  Sure I would!  Would I be willing to join the IBEW again and be subject to their tender ministrations?  Not hardly.  I had my fill of that in the past.  If I don't like a plant, I don't go to it.  If we all didn't like a given plant, perhaps they would have to pay us more to entice us to go there, but that isn't likely to happen.  Some of us need our paychecks badly.  I discovered that in the old ANEFCO, NUMANCO, Rad Services, NSS and IRM days.  

My opinion of unions is not very high.  As a general statement (there are always exceptions to these kind of statements), the people that need the union to protect them seemed to be the people that I really didn't want on my crew to begin with.  I don't need to pay dues to be ignored by another group besides my plant management.

I've been a road tech.  I've been a house tech.  Both have their advantages and disadvantages.  I will do what I deem best for my family and for myself.  Joining a union is rather low on my list of priorities.

Just my two cents worth, mind you (laughing).