What is an ELT?

[Xhelix]

I was just curious, I've seen several people refer to them yet no-one ever comes right out and says what an ELT is.

I am currently in the DEP and I'm leaning towards the MM rate.  ELT is somthing for MM's isn't it?  ..Anyways, whatever information you feel like sharing is appreciated.  Thanks.

[merlin_the_wizard]

Engineering Laboratory Technician.  It's a specialized MM.  If you pursue ELT school, you will get picked up for it in Prototype.  Once finished with Prototype you continue on with about 3 months( I think) of ELT school.  ELT's work with the chemistry levels of the nuclear reactor

[ramdog_1]

some times it stands out! at times ELT = F.O.B.
and let the good times begin!

[Roll Tide]

ELT= Extra Lazy Technician

[dbandcjs]

Why's everyone hatin the Smag's

[Flooznie]

ELT - MM who they don't want being a mechanic,except if Machinery division is short handed, then ELTs are on 2 PMS schedules.

[taterhead]

ELT - MM who they don't want being a mechanic,except if Machinery division is short handed, then ELTs are on 2 PMS schedules.

Wow.  I have never ever seen this on a carrier.

[ex-SSN585]

(Copy of a reply to a personal message with slight modifications)

ELT is an acronym for Engineering Laboratory Technician.  An ELT is an MM with additional training in boiler water chemistry control and analysis and reactor plant water chemistry control and analysis.  

A pressurized water reactor plant (the only type currently in use in the Navy) has two independent loops.  One loop circulates water through the nuclear reactor to transfer the heat generated by the nuclear reaction to a heat exchanger.  The other loop runs through the heat exchanger, turns to steam, and runs the steam turbines.  The loops are independent because the loop running through the nuclear reactor becomes radioactive.  (Of course, that's a simplified explanation, but it will do for now.)

Things in contact with water tend to corrode (rust).   (That's also simplified.)  So, to minimize corrosion, we add chemicals to the water.  We control the water in the reactor loop (called the primary loop) differently than the water in the steam plant loop (called the secondary loop).  One of the jobs of the ELT is to know what chemicals to add and to periodically monitor the water to determine whether or not to add more water or more chemicals to the plant.

I said that the water in the primary loop becomes radioactive.  Ideally, the water in the secondary loop is not radioactive.  Another job of an ELT is to perform radiochemical analyses to determine the level of radioactivity and what isotopes are causing the radioactivity in the primary loop, and also to test the secondary loop to ensure none of the radioactive water has leaked from the primary side to the secondary side.

The third job of the ELT is to monitor the radioactivity released by the nuclear reactor plant.  This is done in two ways.  First is to monitor the radiation produced by the reactor plant.  This is by using instruments such as a geiger counter.  The second is to monitor the contamination that might have escaped from the primary plant.  (Radiation is like the heat given off, contamination is like dirt or dust which is left when water evaporates.)  This is done in a similar fashion, but with a more sensitive instrument.

Typically, these tasks are performed exclusively by ELTs.  In the fleet, non-ELT MMs can by trained by ELTs to perform boiler water analyses, but as I remember, the ELT must add the chemicals.  The MMs do this because it is part of their watchstanding duties.  MMs can also perform radiation and contamination surveys, but usually do not because, with a few exceptions, the surveys are not part of their watchstanding duties.  Primary plant analyses are only performed by ELTs (with some exceptions, such as supervisory watchstation qualifications).

Nuclear ratings in my time were MMs, ETs, EMs, and ICs.  Prior to my time there were more ratings.  Currently, there are no more ICs  (Interior communication electricians) since the EMs and ICs did the same job.

An important part of nuclear qualifications is cross rate training.  So, everyone will learn the theory behind what an ELT does (what chemicals are used, what the water specifications are, what the radiation and contamination levels mean), but generally, only the ELT will perform those tasks.

Hope this helps.  More detail is available on request.

In reply to some other comments:

At times, prototypes have involuntarily assigned graduating MMs to ELT school.  In particular, I had one in my division who finished highly ranked in his class and had his heart set on being a welder.  (The two additional schools available to MMs who have successfully completed prototype training are ELT and Nuclear-grade welder.  These welders usually perform emergency repairs only.  Routine welding on both nuclear and non-nuclear systems is performed by the Hull Technician (HT) rating.)  So, some ELTs really would prefer to work as MMs most of the time.

I think I recall a case where a person was able to convince his detailer to get ELT school as his C school.

Some ELTs are picked up after prototype for staff instructor duty.  Also, some MMs who have completed staff instructor duty get ELT school before being sent to the fleet.  (Unfortunately, in my experience, they come to the fleet with a totally different attitude than one who has been trained initially as an ELT.)

[taterhead]

(Copy of a reply to a personal message with slight modifications)

A pressurized water reactor plant (the only type currently in use in the Navy) has two independent loops.  

Wow.  Thorough reply.

In the interst of accuracy, an A4W reactor plant (Nimitz class carriers)  has 4 loops.

[sefrick]

Wow, what a reply!! I would have just said , Easy Living Tech. It's a pretty good path for MM's who plan on doing 6 and out, simply because they spend little time working with M-div, but they have the opportunity for additional training and they still learn to operate the plant.

I recommend that any ELT who intends to spend 20 years in the Nuclear Navy, be a proactive member in M-div as a MECHANIC. Reason being, once a  ELT  makes Chief, the only sea billet for them is M-Div LCPO (Leading Chief Petty Officer). If they are at that point in thier career and never worked as a mechanic, writing packages,  becoming familiar with tech manuals, perfoming PMS, etc, they may have a difficult time as an M-Div LCPO, unless they have a strong 1st Class under them.

Also, it's usually it's the Chief's job to train the MPA, (Main Propulsion Assistant - the Division Officer). If the Chief doesn't have the knowlege to pass on, your division will wind up having a moron making reports to the Eng and Skipper, putting your division in a negative lime light.

[ex-SSN585]

Hey, I have to ask, is it just a sub versus surface thing where ELTs have the reputation of living in some hole?

After taking two boats through the last half of a shipyard overhaul, I can't remember any of my people who weren't accompliished mechanics.  I can see what you mean to a certain extent on my third boat, a 688, which was not in overhaul.

I always encouraged my guys to read the tech manuals and NSTMs, especially those who weren't advanced by STAR, because it helped them with the rate training exams.  (Of course, by reading other threads here, it looks like that wouldn't help them as much these days.)

On the "S-boats" the diesel was in AMSLL, a natural ELT watchstation, and the nukes maintained the diesel.  Too bad those boats are gone.  I thought it was a good experience.

Plus, for some reason, on my boats, M-Div didn't maintain many QAIs and I was always involved in package work.

I usually worked really well with the leading 1st, but usually had conflicts with the M-Div chiefs because even if they were overmanned, they always wanted more bodies.  One of my worst experiences was with an ELT trained M-Div Chief who was more overbearing than most.

Then again, I'm a 5' tall wimp with coke-bottle glasses and a quiet, squeaky voice.

My worst experience with being labelled as an ELT was transferring to a new boat.  I'd been standing EWS/EDPO for about two years and the Engineer on the new boat refused to qualify me because he had never seen an EWS ELT.  (Of course, this Engineer was a former ELT himself.)  I finally qualified after some personnel losses when, during Christmas standdown, I was needed to support three section EDPO and port/stbd ELT, concurrently.

Speaking of ELTs and M-Div, I think both would gain something by qualifying Throttleman.  I know ERUL/ERS get to warm up the main engines and that TO is an E-Div watchstation, but standing watch as TO when E-Div was shorthanded helped that much more on rate training exams (again, maybe not, but when we took the same exams as the conventionals).  Plus, it was fun, as a change of pace.

[Mike Raymond]

Additionally, on the outside, ELT's are usually the most well rounded people for hiring.  If they remember their reactor theory it's a big plus.  ELT's are "hirable" in Chemistry, Rad Protection, Operations, and Mechanical Maintenance.  With some extra quals while in the Navy, they can also end up in training and QA. 

Good choice for those looking to stay in or get out.

[dbandcjs]

 Reason being, once a  ELT  makes Chief, the only sea billet for them is M-Div LCPO (Leading Chief Petty Officer).

This is true in the SSN world.  But on the surface an ELT is an ELT until he becomes BULL or enter another program. CMC, LDO, CWO.  MELT (Master ELT) billets exist on all carriers, and used to be cruisers.  RL is a big division on a suface ship.  I had one Chief go to M-Div, but that was because we had one of our M-Div chiefs leave the deployment early, and this particular ELT chief has just been med-disqualed subs and his last billet was as an M-Div CPO on a boat.

[matthewmiller01]

ELT - MM who they don't want being a mechanic,except if Machinery division is short handed, then ELTs are on 2 PMS schedules.

This only happened if the LELT was a pushover and wouldn't (or couldn't) stand up for his guys. 
Don't forget SMAG=Superior Mechanic And God!

[mattrev]

This only happened if the LELT was a pushover and wouldn't (or couldn't) stand up for his guys. 
Don't forget SMAG=Superior Mechanic And God!

Not when I was LELT.  My guys were some of the most senior/qualified guys in M-Div.  Underway, there wasn't really much in the way on PM's for either group to do so we tended to stick to our own thing, but if a piece of equipment broke down,  we were there too. During refits, everybody who wasn't "The ELT", stood rover, cept me after I qualified EDPO. :-) Loved that 8-section duty...
And we were there at 0300 standing over the hydro pumps or in the condenser changing zincs. It had more to do with the LELT I relieved having that philosophy (that being an ELT was an extra duty like a welder) than anything else.

[Fermi2]

Look for the really cool looking dude who is surrounded by all the really hot women. That guy will be the ELT.

By the way ELTs have no real preference for being hired outside the Navy. As a whole the % of ELTs in commercial plants is just about the same as in the Navy Program. I'm an ex ELT and no one really cared, except to give me crap.

Mike

[taterhead]

For some reason, ELTs seemed to have more money than regular mechanics, but they sucked at poker, which meant that they ended up giving it to us anyway.

[johnigma]

I'm pretty nubly but I've noticed something about ELT's already.  They never want you to know what they're up to but they always want to know why you want to know.

For example, something as simple as asking for tape:
Me- "Hey man, can I have some tape."
ELT- "Why?  What do you need tape for?"
Me- "Taping something.  Are you using it."
ELT- "Maybe."
Me- "So can I have some?"
ELT- ".... Why?"

This can go on for hours.  What's up with that?

I'm an RO btw.

[ex-SSN585]

ELT - "Yeah, but why do you NEED it?"
YOU - "Because I need to TAPE SOMETHING!"
ELT - "EB Green?"
YOU - "Okay."
ELT - "  'cause EB Green is hard to remove and leaves a residue."
YOU - "I just need some tape."
ELT - "Well, if you just need tape, EB Green is on the COSAL and we only have a few rolls."
YOU - "So?"
ELT - "The ENG has caught people making tape balls."
YOU - "I just need to tape something."
ELT - "Are you helping E-DIV?"
YOU - "Maybe."
ELT - " 'cause if you're bagging light bulbs you need the red stuff."
YOU - "That will do."
ELT - "Well, we don't have any.  Maybe the yard workers have some."
YOU - "What's in that bag?"
ELT - "Tape."
YOU - "I just need a little."
ELT - "That's RADCON tape."
YOU - "oh"
ELT - 'Why, what are you hiding?"
YOU - "Nothing ... "
ELT - "What did you guys do?"
YOU - "NOTHING!"
ELT - "EWS! EOOW! ENGINEER! The ROs are hiding something!"
YOU - "We aren't doing anything!  I just need some tape. T-A-P-E. tape."
ELT - "Why, what do you need tape for?"

[metalman40]

It was a brisk Saturday in late November at New London and the Local NRRO rep had decided to do a monitor watch on a certain S5W class boat. He went down to the dock crossed the brow and headed to the wardroom to pay his respects to the SDO. He then headed aft and entered manuvering. He spent hi two hours silently watching the SRO push the button. At the end of his  two hours he got up to leave but shocked the SRO by clearing his throat and beginning to speak. "SRO what is 2 plus 2?" is what he said. The SRO whipped out his reverse polish notation HP calculator and plugged in his data whereupon he stated "That would be 4.00 sir." "Very Well" said the NRRO Rep. He then turned his gaze upon the SEO and asked "SEO what is 2 plus 2?" "Well let's see. That would be somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 let's call it 4.0." "Very well " said the NRRO man as he exited manuvering. He then proceeded to tour the engineering spaces. He eventually found the SRW filling out his logs in AMR2LL and asked him this same inane question. The SRW gave him a short blank stare and replied "Uh, that's 4 sir." "Very Well." the NRRO Rep replied.  He then headed forward to make his report to the SDO and leave the boat. As he was walking past nucleonics he noticed the ELT sitting inside with the door cracked fevorishily filling out his primary chem logs. He opened the door and asked "ELT what is 2 plus 2?" The ELT after almost falling out of his chair looked at the NRRO guy then stuck his head out into the passageway looking left and right. After making sure no one else was around he replied " Don't know, what's the spec and what do you want it to be?"

[Flooznie]

ROFLMAO!!!!!  That is awesome!   Ahh, boat memories!!!

ET1 (SS)

[ex-SSN585]

You must admit that (submarine) ELTs are have gradually been more and more accepted into the general nuke community.

In the "S-boats", nucleonics (the space where the ELTs perform their radiochemical analyses) was in the forward, starboard corner of enlisted berthing (OPSLL).  (OPS is the operations compartment.  The earlier submarines were partitioned into the torpedo room, operations compartment, reactor compartment, auxiliary machinery room, and engineroom.)
(S-boats:  Skipjack or 585 class in which all names began with the letter S.)

Then nucleonics moved to the OSPUL passageway, within sight of the reactor compartment door.  We were opposite the radio room and most of our counter space was occupied by the infamous 70mm film developing machine.
(Sturgeon or 637 class:  While Sturgeon also begins with the letter S, that is just a coincidence and there was another class ... Thresher, renamed Permit or 594 class ... between the Skipjacks and the Sturgeons.  Same arrangement as above, but the auxiliary machinery room was referred to as the auxiliary machinery space, AMS)

Now we work in the engineroom, along with everyone else.  (Now submarines have a single watertight door, separating the engineroom from the forward compartment.)
(Los Angeles or 688 class, and the unique Tullibee SSN-597)

(Explanations provided so as not to be cryptic to non-Navy and prospective Navy readers.)

[ELTsmag]

Only problem with people becoming ELTs after they finish their Junior Staff Instructor Tour at Prototype is that they are so very close to becoming 1st class and know almost nothing about ELT duties when they get out to the fleet, where as senior 2nd classes or junior 1st classes they will be expected to know their ELT stuff backwards and forwards.  Lets face it, considering the enormous amount of things to learn to become a proficient ELT, 3 months isn't near enough to learn it all-it took me about a year to get 90% of the stuff we do learned (you gotta do the procedure before you fully understand it, and there's ALOT of different procedures).
I have to admit I really love my job as an ELT and would fully recommend anybody considering it to give it a shot.  Don't listen to all those jealous fools, they are silly

[Xhelix]

Awesome, I really appreciate all the posts here.

Just some minor questions I failed to incorporate into my orginal post:

1.  How do you become an ELT? (After prototype, yes, but... how?  raise your hand and say "uh.. sir?  I was kinda... well, ya know.... god ****it make me an ELT!"?)

2. I guess thats really all I had, so for two, see one.

Thanks in advance!

[ex-SSN585]

For any special school or program, the standard answer is to run a special request chit.  You're likely to see these before it comes time when you'd request ELT school.  An example from years ago is that people had to submit a special request chit to wear civilian clothes after completing A school.

The second part is that for the special request to be received favorably, you should attempt to receive the highest class standing possible in your NPS and prototype class.  Don't feel the pressure that you have to be number one, but the top half would be nice, and top 10% or 25% should be enough.

Finally, the dreaded phrase, "Needs of the Navy".  This is the primary driving factor.  However, since the Nuclear Field seems to be severely undermanned, I wouldn't expect this to be an influence, except if you don't want to be an ELT.

[taterhead]

1.  How do you become an ELT? (After prototype, yes, but... how?  raise your hand and say "uh.. sir?  I was kinda... well, ya know.... god ****it make me an ELT!"?)

It will be very obvious to you when to make the request ie. they will put out the info to the group.

You will assigned a "Sea Dad" staff guy who will be your single point of contact for that kind of stuff.

[Roll Tide]

Awesome, I really appreciate all the posts here.

Just some minor questions I failed to incorporate into my orginal post:

1.  How do you become an ELT? (After prototype, yes, but... how?  raise your hand and say "uh.. sir?  I was kinda... well, ya know.... god ****it make me an ELT!"?)

2. I guess thats really all I had, so for two, see one.

Thanks in advance!

I would recommend having high (top 1/4 or so) class standing in NPS and NPTU, and qualifying early at NPTU. Go the extra mile and show you are willing to learn more than the minimum for your Chem/Radcon checkouts especially!

Don't be a kissup, but definitely get a reputation as a hard-charger!

[Xhelix]

Thanks for the advice.  Now I need to sort through all the information and see if I'd rather be an ELT or a weilder (Since its basically (is?) impossible to be both.

If anyone comes up with something else not mentioned here, feel free to add it.  I'm always looking for more information.

[dav8]

Speaking from experience, and I'm sure most on this site who are or were ELT's will agree, be an ELT.  You will see why when you get to prototype, and it isn't until about half way through prototype do you have to make your final decision.

[brockman_148]

i was pretty excited about getting picked up for ELT. "extra lazy technician" they'd say... i still love what i do. i just wished i didn't get orders to the enterprise. 43 years old, 8 rx, 32 s/g about a spill per day. exciting but busy...

[Beta_effect]

Don't let anyone kid you-ELT qual is the fastest ticket to a job as soon as you hit the street as far as working in a nuke plant. Even if life does bite a bit as far as short outages, the travel is no big deal when you are fresh out and the experience and money piles up-you don't have to do it forever. If you are smart you will work on getting a degree.

You can always just go work as an operator at a plant after you get out too. The initial starting salary is lower, but you will surpass any road tech salary once you get the RO quals and if you have a degree any caps to advancing further upward at the utility are removed. There appears to be some peeps on this board that have gone this route.

Don't let the doomsday talk about nuclear power slow you down either-we have no other options and you will certainly be in the window during your working career to see the revival.

Even if a revival never occurs, remediation work alone will keep you busy for years. The beauty of it is that you can go both ways when you get out after being an ELT-either into radcon as an HP or ops as an operator. The further beauty is that you can work radcon awhile and then switch to ops. Flexibility is the key, and ELT qual gives you the most flexibility. The second best way to get the RO experience is to qualify EWS. As far as M-div and ribbing goes, there are ELTs out there that know thier way around an engineroom just as well as any straight MM-the trick is in getting the L-div and M-div to cooperate so you don't have the unbalance in experience. Operationally, this can be difficult and makes for some very long days for the ELT.

Research reactors are also an option if you defer college till later as any ex-Navy nuke has a leg up as far as getting on staff (there you will most likely qualify RO/SRO). And if that doesn't work, out try to get on at the safety office. Most large universities will have RSO's and rad-techs as life does not necessarily revolve around nuclear power generation-lots of research involving ram is going on.

A little plug for medical physicists-there is a great shortage of these peeps. The job is very interesting and the salaries are high. It is not uncommon to find peeps with undergraduate derees in engineering or physics that have gone this route.

[Xhelix]

...EWS...

...SRO...
...RSO...

Could someone define those acronyms for me please?  Thanks

[ex-SSN585]

EWS - Engineering Watch Supervisor

The EWS is the senior enlisted watchstation on watch.  On a submarine, the nuclear watch section usually consists of the EOOW (Engineering Officer of the Watch), EWS, RO (reactor operator), EO (electrical operator), TO (throttle operator), ERS (engineroom supervisor), ERUL (engineroom upper level), ERLL (engineroom lower level), and AEA (auxiliary electrical operator).  Additionally, depending on the configuration of the ship, there is either an ERML (engineroom middle level) or AMS/AMR UL (auxiliary machinery space/room upper level), and an AMS/AMR LL (auxiliary machinery space/room lower level).  Finally there is the underway ELT.

The EWS is trained to know the job of every other watchstander.  Normally, the EWS makes periodic tours of the engineering spaces and reviews the operating logs (written records of equipment operating conditions/parameters).  The EWS and EOOW can exchange places as supervisor of the maneuvering room.  The EWS can substitute for any watchstander on a short term basis, except for the reactor operator.

The maneuvering room watchstanders are the RO, EO, TO, and EOOW.  The RO is the senior ET and the EO is the senior EM.  If I recall correctly, the RO must be stood by an ET.  Both ETs and EMs qualify as EO, but the EO is normally the senior EM.  The TO is almost always an EM.  These watchstations monitor and control a single panel and are not allowed to leave their position.  The RO has direct control of the nuclear reactor.  The EO controls the electrical generation and distribution.  The TO controls the speed of the ship.

The MO (mechanical operator or MM) watchstations are ERS, ERUL, ERLL and, where this space exists, the AMS/AMR LL.  I'm probably forgetting someone because I have blocked out the experience of serving on a 688i class submarine as much as possible.  The ERS is the senior MM and makes roving tours of the engineering spaces.  The ERUL, ERLL, and AMS/AMR LL are restricted to their level, but are allowed to wander the length of the space.

The ERML or AMS/AMR UL watch is another ET/EM watchstation normally stood by an ET.  This watch is restricted to the level, but is allowed to wander the length of the space.  (This might not be completely accurate for the ERML watch, I forget.

The AEA is another ET/EM watchstation normally stood by an EM.  The AEA is generally confined to the engineering spaces, but can possibly go anywhere on the boat.

The ELT can either be a dedicated individual who is on call at any time.  The ELT can also be an off-watch duty for an ELT trained mechanical operator.

Further descriptions of the operating spaces and equipment border on being classified information.  Plans and descriptions are available in books.  Actually, the equipment configuration is probably not classified except for certain equipment, but I don't have the governing instructions, so it is best to say nothing about the subject.

When the nuclear reactor is not operating, the manning is reduced.  There are as few as one shutdown reactor operator (SRO), one  shutdown electrical operator (SEO), and one  shutdown mechanical operator (engineroom roving watch).  The EWS stands duty as EDPO (engineering duty petty officer) and the EOOW becomes the EDO (engineering duty officer).  I'll stop at descriptions here because the SRO in most posts refers to a civilian position, senior reactor operator, which is completely different.

[dbandcjs]

Just a note, on a surface ship underway ELT doesn't exist.  There are so many ELT's.  that there is an ELT watchstation that follows the same rotation as the rest of the engineroom.  Most ELT's stand enough "ELT watch" to maintain ELT proficiency, the rest of the time they support mechanical watchbill.  This is the was it was on my CGN and the way I have heard it is on CVN's.

[dbandcjs]

Another note, in port on the surface, ELT is a 24 hour watchstation.  The duty ELT watch is just that, ELT. He/she can't stand any other watch.  So duty section ELT's rotate being either duty section ELT watch or supporting SRW or SMO on their duty days. 

[ex-SSN585]

Another note, in port on the surface, ELT is a 24 hour watchstation.  The duty ELT watch is just that, ELT. He/she can't stand any other watch.  So duty section ELT's rotate being either duty section ELT watch or supporting SRW or SMO on their duty days. 

Clarification:  This must mean for a surface ship in port, not a submarine "in port on the surface".  On every submarine I served on, the duty section ELT also stood watch.  That can make for a busy day if the mechanical watches are port and starboard.

[matthewmiller01]

Another note, in port on the surface, ELT is a 24 hour watchstation.  The duty ELT watch is just that, ELT. He/she can't stand any other watch.  So duty section ELT's rotate being either duty section ELT watch or supporting SRW or SMO on their duty days. 

On my boat (Trident-Kings Bay), the duty ELT could-and did-stand SRW (Shutdown Roving Watch) on his duty days.

[dbandcjs]

Sorry, I should have been more specific.  My post referred to surface ships (targets).  My brother was an ELT out of Bangor (USS Florida) and I was in Bremerton, at the same time, on the USS California.  As a surface ELT I had much easier duty days. 

[Roll Tide]

Clarification:  This must mean for a surface ship in port, not a submarine "in port on the surface".  On every submarine I served on, the duty section ELT also stood watch.  That can make for a busy day if the mechanical watches are port and starboard.

Not to be confused with a submarine in port submerged. 
(Sand Lance sailors were all smart alecks)

[ex-SSN585]

Actually, there is a place to be in port, submerged (200 feet), on shore power.  People were even allowed to call home and tell people where they were.  (Since I didn't make a phone call, I don't remember if we were cautioned about saying why we were there.  There is mention on-line by CHINFO about why some subs have been there, but I'll leave details for someone else.)  It is in Bangor and is used by submarines completing overhaul at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.

[Roll Tide]

Actually I was thinking of sinking at the pier, not nearly as well-planned!

[ex-SSN585]

Not to be confused with a submarine in port submerged. 
(Sand Lance sailors were all smart alecks)

Actually I was thinking of sinking at the pier, not nearly as well-planned!

OK! I finally understand your reference.

[ELTsmag]

As soon as you start your watchstanding portion of prototype, and only IF YOUR ARE A MECHANIC, inform the M-DIV Chief and M-DIV LPO as well as your advisor that you would like to be an ELT.  The ELT staff will probably rib on you a bit to size you up, and the MDIV staff will know to size you up while you stand watch.  Things they look for are professionalism, integrity, a pro-active attitude (see something not quite right immediately investigate and correct it) and personal initiative.

As an ELT you will not have a Watch Supervisor or Engineroom Supervisor riding your but to get your logs up to date or corrected, or fix problems on your watchstation; and you will be the sole expert of your job on the watch-team.  Even the Watch Officers are freakin clueless when it comes to Chemistry and Radcon so you will have nobody to turn to for advice when you walk by and see a RADCON tool laying around on a workbench without a watchstander in sight.  Because of this, those traits I mentioned above are a MUST and the staff will be evaluating you on these traits.  Perfection is key, strive for perfection, be a perfectionist, and you should have no problem becoming an ELT.

If MDIV thinks you'd make a good smoothie, then around week 16 or so you're advisor will fill out an ELT package (ELT packages are filled out at the same time as Staff Pickup packages are), they'll interview you, if they like you they'll make you seem godly, and you'll probably be in ELT school in a few months.

Word to the wise, if you don't want to be the front-man for all kinds of nubly mistakes (the first person to catch a stupid mistake you made will be a NRRO rep when auditing your logs, who then tells the Cap what a dolt of a watchteam he has, and it all comes rolling down onto you) and take the fall if something bad happens(radcon wise) -and it will happen I guarantee you-then don't even apply, because we don't want you.  When ORSE is performed, everybody wants to see the weakest ELT perform a Primary Analysis, or a Chloride Titration, and one small mistake will nail your butt (and no pressure, since there will likely be 5 high ranking officers one of which probably WROTE the procedure watching every move you make), there is alot more pressure than if you were just a nubly Lower Level mechanic with two supervisors to protect you from all the stupid things you do.  No love for the ELTs.

[Already Gone]

Another note, in port on the surface, ELT is a 24 hour watchstation.  The duty ELT watch is just that, ELT. He/she can't stand any other watch.  So duty section ELT's rotate being either duty section ELT watch or supporting SRW or SMO on their duty days. 

Yeah right.  And God didn't make little green apples.....
The duty ELT stands just as many SRW as any other MM in the section.  Sometimes you have to stand more because SRW's cannot do maintenance on watch.  If something big is broken, or a repair takes too long, you're going to take the watch for the guy who's doing it.

[taterhead]

Things they look for are professionalism, integrity, a pro-active attitude (see something not quite right immediately investigate and correct it) and personal initiative.

I am just trying to figure out what any of these traits have to do with being an ELT

[dbandcjs]

Beer Court,

By 'on the surface', I mean surface ships.  Surface EDORMS don't allow the duty ELT to stand any other watch, example SRW.  Besides, there are alot more mechanics on a surface ship and lot of chemistry and radcon on a duty day.

Chuck

[Rad Sponge]

, in port on the surface, ELT is a 24 hour watchstation. 

As opposed to in port submerged?

[Xhelix]

Awesome.  I recently finished NFAS and are now an MM3, and I'm starting NPS next week.

Before bootcamp I didn't really understand / was a little turned away from being an ELT by this thread.  But now that I've gotten a smidgen of experiance under my belt, it sounds great.

I finished third (out of 21) in my NFAS class with a 3.60 and I have high hopes for NPS.

Chemistry and physics are what I love, and I still have my sights set on becoming an ELT.

I know I didn't thank you all properly for all you're help before I left for bootcamp; so if you would, please accept this in it's stead:

I appreciate all the insight you've given me, and anything else you might want to add would be well recieved.

Thanks.

[visserjr]

By far some of the best descriptions out there...Ex-ssn585...whew man you guys are awesome.
 

[shovelheadred]

...back in the day...we had some EM/ELT's, do they still allow this?..CVN-68...ELT's had an easy life...5 hours on 35 hours off...duty day(3 section) only in the yard for 18 months in Newport News.....using the Nuke Shack for every illegal activity that needed to be done...no MM watch stations unless you wanted to qualify EWS, but they were on 5 on and 20 off, so we had better duty..........on the outside..ELT's have an advantage, because of the training, most start out as RP's, but I know ex-ELT's that are in OPS, Refuelers, electricians, Managers...none in chemistry.a couple bar owners, and one doing time in South Carolina...these posts cover about all an ELT is...But from the subject line"what is an ELT?".........."COOL...thats right,,,COOL...even the ELT nerd, was cool in the fleet...cause the chemistry was magic..the hours short..and they still issued 180 proof liquor to decon equipment...any of you remember those days?...I know you do Rumrunner, cause we wuz there together.............Red

[darkmatter]

By all means, Xhelix, be an ELT if you can. I've thought it has been worth it, I was an ELT over 20 years ago and have found it most usefull during my career. Didn't hurt me none anyway (unless you ask my co-workers who think I'm a bit brain damaged)
I've been laughed at cause I'm different, I'm laughing cause they're all the same type of losers.

[hutch]

working in a shipyard that deals with subs i can tell you an ELT is pretty much a RCT without as much training and they know how to do chemistry.  I can tell you it seems like they get the short end while in port for overhaul/repair.  They cant work in GB's w/o training and then all the trainers give them is a 3hr course(we have guys whive been qualed for years and cant work in a GB for crap) so its kind of funny.  But what i will tell you is that most of them are great guys and i love working with them.  Of course there is always exceptions like the guy that got picked up for NR...what a jerk cant wait to see him on the deck plates.  They always need bags, rad rope, and tape,  the meters they use suck, and remember they NEVER EVER eat or drink in the lab, especially while doing primaries .  So, i really enjoy working with them and they can pretty much get whatever you need while on board, so if you go ELT, remember when you get to the shipyard be nice to your RCT buddies, they can get you all sorts of stuff and get you out of alot of trouble.....

[Fermi2]

There are some who say an ELT is a Godlike creature who walks the earth.

Mike

[hamsamich]

I was an ELT for the 91 DMP in Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in New Hampshire on my Fast Attack (714)....the Radcon guys were cool at the shipyard, plus some of the girls were nice...It was hell working there, but the shipyard RCTs made it better.  But talk about culture shock, we tag everything with tracking tags and log it in a book, they just tag SOME things and then forged aboud it, sorta like working in commercial.  Took me a while to get used to it, but it is so much easier...

[M1Ark]

There are some who say an ELT is a Godlike creature who walks the earth.

I am one who'll never say that, LOL.  I was a real mechanic and if I could do it over again I wouldn't change a thing.  I understand the ELT bias on this forum and have tried to abstain.  Broadzilla, you weren't selected as an ELT.  On reviewing your post you were a SPU who re-enlisted to get a 'C' school right after your SPU tour. You then went the fleet as an ELT.  The only thing separating you from me is that I was smart enough to not re-enlist after prototype and went to the fleet as a mechanic and enjoyed every minute of it.  ELT's are no better or worse than their counterparts.  There are good ELT's and lousy ones.  Let's not tell these kids that ELT is the bomb... because it's not.  Being an ELT doesn't give you more career options because it does not.

Sorry for ranting on you but tell these kids the straight scoop and that your rating has less to do with your nuclear success as your own drive and initiative.

[Fermi2]

LOL I was being sarcastic. I was a mechanic for my first 4 years in the Navy prior to becoming an ELT. I was a DAMN good mechanic and still am. I didn't reenlist to become an ELT, when I was getting ready to leave prototype I was offered either SPU Duty or ELT. Since I was dating an Idaho Falls girl I decided to be a SPU. Later I did reenlist, I was already a second class, I earned thatg on my own, one of three mechanics that year to get promoted from E4 to E5 based on the test and not because I was a Star Baby. When I got married I viewed the reenlistment bonus as a good thing to allow me to get some stuff for my wife. To be honest I didn't want to be an ELT, I don't view it as a really skilled position, anyone can do chemistry and rad con, it's not that tough. At prototype once we started shift work I qualified ELT in 9 days. Again it wasn't that tough.

On the SSN 687 you were an MM first an ELT second, trust me, when MMCS Dix was the Leading Chief you couldn't be an ELT unless you were a proficient Mechanic First. In fact you couldn't even do your ELT card until you completed at least two MM cards plus SRW.

Overall going to ELT School gave me a better paper background but it didn't really teach me any skills I didn't already have as I was a chemist prior to entering the Navy. And as for taking surveys....

In the end, I broke both my elbows and got out of the Navy just 1 month after my initial EAOS. I kept my reenlistment bonus, got paid the rest of my bonus, got 20K in severance pay, get 275 a month in disability, and I have a well over 6 figure job. None of it had anything to do with being an ELT

Mike

[hamsamich]

""Being an ELT doesn't give you more career options because it does not.""

what does this mean, and, of course you have more career options as an ELT, it opens up opportunity to be an HP, dosimetry, chem tech, work in waste water treatment plants and a bunch of other stuff. and if you want to you can still do the mechanic stuff.  Case in point: I was asked to interview for a job as a nuclear mechanic based on me being a mechanic, even though I wasn't heavy as a mechanic.  I didn't want to be a mechanic, so i didn't bother, but I was recruited.   Maybe they wouldn't of hired me, but I was qualified for the interview by resume only.

[shayne]

There are good ELT's and lousy ones. 

This could be said of all the Nuclear Navy Rates. 

[Rad Sponge]

I agree 1199% with Hamsamich.

The ELT sets you up for everything post-Navy in Nuclear Power except for I an C.

Chemistry: Operations, Waste Treatment, HAZMAT

HP: Operations, Dosimetry, ALARA, Rad Engineeering

Mechanical: Operations, Maintenance, Repair

And move on up into RO/SRO if you wish.

And get a degree...then you will be never w/o a job.


Its up to you to decide how much of a Mechanic you want to be. As I have stated elsewhere, if you plant going past 8, you better get involved with M-Div.

To disagree with those that say ELTs are picked out of groups of guys not good at being Mechanics....BS, because up until I was selected for ELT, I was a class honorman and had stellar Mechanical grades. Some of the best Mechanics I knew were ELTs. Some of the worst Mechanics I knew were Mechanics.

[taterhead]

Well, here is my take...

Being chosen to be an ELT is 33.3% needs of the Navy, 33.3% grades, and 33.4% popularity contest, or at least it was in 1998.

In my class, they only took a few ELTs.  They took even fewer SPUs.  I had high scores, but I do not remember if I put a package in for ELT or SPU, honestly.

As soon as we got to prototype, we got the word to cozy up to the ELT staff guys if we wanted to be ELTs, and get in tight with the real MMs if we wanted to be SPU MMs.  Alot of this unfortunately came down to off duty interaction (not allowed, by the way) and how many smokes/how much dip you could carry with you to dole out in the to staff in the cubes.  I was married, didn't smoke or chew, and was a little too old to kiss ass, so off to the fleet I went.

I don't envy ELTs, nor do I wish to be one.  We need ELTs, just like we need regular mechanics.  Did I get nervous on my first actual Chief Reactor Watch when I came down to find that it was ELT proficiency night, so ELTs were on all mechanical watchstations?  Well, yes, luckily we were steady state steaming .  However, I would have been equally nervous to have to draw a primary sample under the watchful eye of NRRO.

I really don't understand the debate.  Is being an ELT good?  Sure, why turn down more school?  As far as Navy advancement goes, I do not think it is a any advantage to be one or the other.  The CPO exam is no different for ELT/non ELT, and the test is much more mechanically heavy than it is chemistry/radcon heavy.  ELTs who do not bother really learning the mechanical side are at a distinct disadvantage, however.  As JMK said, if someone wants to make Chief, or even LDO, the EWS/PPWS qual is almost "required", and you had better be heavy on the mechanical side of the plant, since that is about 70% of the qual.  Career minded ELTs who do not bother getting out of nucleonics to learn the plants are not making good career decisions.

I will say that ELT shore duty, at least in the shipyard, is a little bit of a raw deal.  ELTs are almost exclusively RCTs, and from what I can tell, that is a pretty crappy job (shift work, uber-controls, high visibility, etc).  This makes off duty college a bit challenging.

There are good ELTs, and there are earthsack ELTs.  The same can be said for almost any category of people in the world.  We tease ELTs on the ship, but part of it is jealousy and the other part is that we aren't quite sure what they do in nucleonics, but we are sure that only 1/2 of it is legal.

Post Navy, I want to teach history in a military school/academy.  To be honest, not much about the technical side of my job will help me then, anyway.

Oh, what was the original question again?

[visserjr]

Taterhead said it all, as with JMK on making MMC. From my limited shore duty experience(1st Shore duty was at my 11 year point) I am a Nuc planner at TRF KB. We write the procedures for nuc valve repairs and resin discharges. The ELTs in the code mostly work as repair mechanics or rcts. I have to say when there is not much work it seems to be ok. However, when we do get a job or two or ten going, those guys are hurtin bad. A good portion were hard chargers at sea, got to be a navy rct and decided it was time to get out. I personally feel that life is 10% of what happens to you, and 90% how you choose to react to it.

John

[M1Ark]

JMK/Hamsamich

If you're a navy nuke... you WILL get a job after the canoe club.  I spent six years in the navy and maximized my time (SPU, E-6 in 4 years w/o re-enlisting). I have spent the last 12 years in civilian nuclear power and I have hired, worked with, worked for, and supervised all of the rates including O-gangers and they are fundamentally equal in my mind. 

As a lowly mechanic I think I could have landed a job in "HP, dosimetry, chem tech, work in waste water treatment plants and a bunch of other stuff."  Although, I don't think I would have wanted a job in a waste water plant.

My only point is that Nuke Depper's scan these forums for what they want to be when they grow up and we have to try not to be biased.  It pains me to say this and will forever be disowned by my fellow snipes... But I'm not sure that EM wouldn't be the way to go for complete job marketability post-navy and not ELT.  There... I said it.

[shayne]

It pains me to say this and will forever be disowned by my fellow snipes... But I'm not sure that EM wouldn't be the way to go for complete job marketability post-navy and not ELT.  There... I said it.

I'll be the first to disown you... (No hard feelings though)  I have had no problems with my Navy Nuclear EM background.  But it could be said that maybe being an EM gives them more of an advantage in other fields, such as automation, PLCs, or during field service jobs on UPS systems, low, medium, and high voltage equipment.

If you're a navy nuke... you WILL get a job after the canoe club.  I spent six years in the navy and maximized my time (SPU, E-6 in 4 years w/o re-enlisting).

Very true, Most Navy Nuclear should have no problems finding a decent job after 6 years.

[hamsamich]

I'm only talking what you are qualified to do without bull$hiting about what types of jobs you "could" land.  I've seen people land all kinds of jobs they were more or less qualified to do, but hey, an ELT did Radcon, chemistry, mechanics, and operated.  Could an EM or MM be an HP, sure, but an ELT was qualified to do it and DID it in the navy, usually.  I think if a hospital was looking at 2 guys to run a dosimitry program and it was between a mechanic and an ELT, the ELT would be more apt to get the job.  I   don't think I understand M1ARK's post about a mechanic being qualified to be a dosimetry guy.  Is this a conversation about the capabilities of a mechanic vs. ELT or are we letting guys who want to be nukes know what they are qualified to do after doing a 6 or 8 year stint?  I think nukes CAN do alot of things, but being a mechanic in the navy does not qualify you to be an HP on the outside, and you will have a much harder row to hoe than an ELT unless you can get RCM school if you want to be an HP.

I just meant an ELT (in general ONLY, not the case for everyone) has more job opportunities then a MECHANIC because he has been an ELT.  That's all, by virtue of his qualification.  But arguably, it seems an ELT does have a small percentage chance of getting more jobs then any other NEC in the NUCLEAR field. 

EO - qualified to be I+C and Operator?
RO - qualified to be I+C and Operator?
MM - qualified to be Mechanic and Operator?
ELT - qualifed to be HP, Chem tech, Operator, Mechanic.

Of course this list is not all encompassing, and many people don't fit the exact prototype.  For instance, EWS, EOOW, some SROs can be instant SROs right out of the NAVY.  But any nuclear rate can be an EWS, so this gives no catagory any "bump up."  EOOW I think is more slanted torwards ROs maybe?  But your average run of the mill nuke, like I was and alot of other guys were, fall into the 4 catagories up there.  ELT opens you up for 4 major jobs at a nuc power plant, while EO, RO, MM seem to give you 2, although RO probably makes it easier to get to the control room in a commercial nuc, while straight MM (no ELT attatch) makes it more likely you will get a nuclear mechanic job vs ELT?  Could I be an I+C tech if I wanted to move over to that job?  Maybe after getting my foot in the door and making some friends.  I'm just talking about types of NUCLEAR jobs here, maybe EMs are the most marketable outside of nuclear, i don't know.  If you want to come out of the navy and be a contractor without much extra training, I think one of the easiest ways is to be an ELT, or get to R-5 and qualify RCM. 

Looking at it with the point of view as being straight out of the Navy with no extras but qualifying your senior watchstation and trying to get a NUCLEAR job based on being an RO, EO, MM or ELT, it seems to me it is obvious the ELT has a small advantage on the number of TYPES of jobs to do without extra training or college.  Let's try to give these guys the straight poop instead of being jealous we didn't get ELT or RO or whatever.  I don't know if that's the motivation here, but some of the posts here belong in the "my rate is better than yours because" or "I can do what you can do so nah nah nah" catagory.

ps, I didn't mention QA, but all nucs could do that one, huh?

[Xhelix]

Well guys, its months later.  Months and months and months.

I'm in Prototype now ... in Milton (for those of you in the know; you know.)

Reading some of the posts I made on this site from years gone by, makes me hate myself for being so stupid!  , I know much better now, questions that were so big to me then are nothing.

Thanks for all the stories, they helped keep me focused through Power School, helped remind me why I wanted mechanic.

Well, I've got some qualifying to ... do?

[M1Ark]

XHelix,

Have you figured out what an ELT is?

MM1

[Xhelix]

Hahaha... It's almost over.

I'm almost there.

Just one more thing left to do.

It's been 33 months since I started this thread, and almost 14 *thousand* views.

I really appreciate the guidance, the stories, and the opinions (the rants too, if I have to).

I'm getting this "Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 90 days... blah blah blah"  but I feel like I really should provide some closure to try to justify the 14 000 clicks made to read what I started.

On Thursday; September 6, 2007 at 0830 I'll be in my Final Oral Board for my ELT qualification.  It's funny really.  Every day I go into work and say to anyone who'll listen "Did I tell you lately just how happy I am to be an ELT?"  After seeing how the mechanics are and what they do, I can't help but know I made the right choice by wanting this.  Now anytime a mechanic student asks me "Is it worth the extra work to be an ELT?" I answer "Do you *really* want to be a mechanic?!"

After more than a year here I'm leaving in 9 days.  Nine days to find some sort of closure with this place, to pack my things, and to leave with the knowledge that I may never see another D1G-alanche.  Then again, I don't have any orders yet (or bonus for that matter!). 

I don't know what else to say, theres so much I want to know about but I have a feeling that I'll be best off just to go experience it myself.

Thanks again guys, sincerely.

--Chris "Xhelix"

(Edit: Typos)

[shovelheadred]

The ELT sets you up for everything post-Navy in Nuclear Power except for I an C.
this was a post from Jason...

...you must be new school brother, because in the late 70's and 80's we had EM/ELT's and I do belive an EM can and did I&C work.....also, most nukes are trainable,well 99% are and there are puhlenty of avenues for getting the required I&C knowledge, while you are at sea......red

[hamsamich]

I was always proud, happy and glad I had made the choice to be an ELT.  I do wish I had embraced the mechanic side of things more.  We had a piece of crap MMC m-div LCPO who was horrible, so I tried to stay as far away from M-Div as I could mainly because of this guy.  This ended up being to my detriment; today, if I had done more of the M-div stuff, I would feel good about applying for some jobs on RoadTechs that I don't feel I am quite qualified for because of my lack of M-divishness.  There are other reasons too I wish I would have done more m-div stuff.  Go help with that reduction gear inspection, it is kinda cool, get involved if you can, especially if M-Div seems like a good one.  Good luck.

[Marvin]

I knew an ELT who was an ELT before there were ELT's.  His name was Gene J. and he was a corpsman in the Navy working with medical radioisotopes when Rickover decided that he needed specialists on the USS Nautilus to obtain and analyze reactor coolant samples.  So Gene volunteered and was selected, since he had experience with radioactive samples and all.  Then Rickover flew this little group to colleges all over the USA learning about engineering things.  The rest is history.

Gene was one of the most knowledgeable nukes I have ever met.  He had forgot more about things nuclear than most of us will ever know, especially me.

Gene still had his "nuke school notes" when he passed away.  I still think of Gene and will always remember him fondly.

Marvin

[Xhelix]

Thats right, I'm done.  D, U, N, dun.   

I hardly know what to think, the entire board felt like I was watching it through someone else's eyes (which would explain why I did so damn poorly...)

I think it's kind of funny that I'd end up sticking with this post to the end.  If you look at the dates theres some huge gaps there when I went to boot camp, was in A and powerschool, went to prototype, ect... But finally; from going to "Derrr, ELT good... right?" to "F*** yes ELT good." you can trace my ignorance from the start.

Now for my favorite part:

I got orders to the USS Topeka (SSN-754) out of San Diego, which was my first homeport choice!

For a while there I had given up on San Diego and decided to settle (haha... settle) for Pearl.  So I had mixed feelings when I heard I got San Diego after all ... I was so PUMPED to go to Pearl too.

I have a bud who got Pearl and wants to switch orders and I'm tempted but I think I'm gonna pass.

1.  I have family near San Diego, it's where my grandmother grew up and where my grandfather was stationed for quite some time.

2.  The Topeka is 754 and his is 701 the La Jolla.  Thats 13 years difference people, and I don't think I want to mess with  an old boat.

and 3.  This way I get to take a nice road trip across the US while I'm on leave.

HAHAHAHA! Free!! (Kind of but not really in a twisted sort of way)  Now I get to wake up tonight and really mean it when I say "I'm finally done with this place!"

 

 

Note: Edited by moderator for language.

[hamsamich]

there was a guy who worked at North Anna with us earlier this year who worked at Naval Reactors Facility very early (early 50's, I believe 1952).  He was 78 years old I believe and still working as a Senior Tech!  very cool.  anyway, if i have the story right, he was one of or even THE ORIGINAL guy who qualified ELT at NRF in the early fifties and then qualified navy guys.  He was not in the navy but had to qualify ELT/help develop the quals then qualify navy guys.

I can't remember his name but he was a very neat guy, not full of it.  I'm pretty sure he qualified ELTs to go on the Nautilus but not 100% sure now.  If I could've made it happen i was going to interview him and write down his story, but North Anna was very draining so I didn't get around to it, my mistake!  i'll try to remember his name. somebody from north anna help me.

[Roll Tide]

Thats right, I'm done. 

Congratulations!
And thanks for your service. Whether you decide 6 is enough, STAR baby is your route, an extra enlistment, or stay in long enough to retire, your service is appreciated. It's a sacrifice, but there is a ton that you can do while you are in and much more when you get out.

Don't get lazy: go for the extra distance to excel in every assigned task. It will pay back.

[JustinHEMI05]

What plant were you at? Oh and congrats. I never wanted to be an ELT but had it shoved on my anyway. Although I preferred being a mechanic, I didn't mind the lack of work to do on a friday either. I was really good at both and got to write some things for the fleet, which was cool. I was happy when I got to say goodbye to all of it though when I qualified EOOW at MARF. ELTs hated it though because I busted them on everything and saw through their lies. Enjoy!

Justin

[maxparity]

Having served as an ELT many moons ago, I was curious as to just what were the lies that your superior vision afforded you the ability to see through, and could you somehow enlighten us mortals as to what were some of the basic components that entailed the "everything" that you busted the ELTs on. As an obviously Khan-like being as illustrated by how "good"  you lay claim to being in both the mechanical and chem/rad con realms as well as being a cool writer for the fleet, and by no means last nor least the finest EOOW in the many EFPH burned at the MARF facility, one quick question seems to shine as bright as the sun setting off the coast of Naples-did your anyway suffer any damage when the ELT was shoved upon it ?  BOHICA. USS NIMITZ CVN-68 1980-1984  MM2/ELT.

[JustinHEMI05]

Having served as an ELT many moons ago, I was curious as to just what were the lies that your superior vision afforded you the ability to see through, and could you somehow enlighten us mortals as to what were some of the basic components that entailed the "everything" that you busted the ELTs on. As an obviously Khan-like being as illustrated by how "good"  you lay claim to being in both the mechanical and chem/rad con realms as well as being a cool writer for the fleet, and by no means last nor least the finest EOOW in the many EFPH burned at the MARF facility, one quick question seems to shine as bright as the sun setting off the coast of Naples-did your anyway suffer any damage when the ELT was shoved upon it ?  BOHICA. USS NIMITZ CVN-68 1980-1984  MM2/ELT.

Did you miss the smiley face?

In case you didn't but ignored the jest that the post was written in any way... lets start with; (ELT to ME)

"Phosphates went down more than normal because of a phosphate leak to the primary."

"Hydrogen went down and gases went up because the hydrogen is at equilibrium."

"pH in condensate went down because of CO2 absorption."

"Yes I surveyed that." ME... "But on my tour, I didn't see that poly bottle there." ELT... "Ah, oh ummm..." ME... "So is the poly bottle there or not?" ELT... "They might have moved it I will go check." ME... "right."

"Its within the accuracy of the analysis."

I could go on and on if you would like, but I have other things to do tonight.

As for my claims, I didn't claim anything. They were statements of fact. How good I was as a navy nuke operator is well documented in ORSE reports, awards, letters, student end of course critiques, and yellow stickies of appreciation. There are even people here that would attest to it. You added the assertion that I was the finest EOOW at MARF, and you are absolutely correct. I am not sure how the place operates without me.

Did you see that smiley face?

If not, I don't give a crap. I don't owe you any explanations or proof of anything.

If you did see it, then lighten up and relax, you will be happier at the end of the day.

Peace.

Justin

[mlslstephens]

... then lighten up and relax, you will be happier at the end of the day.

Peace.

Justin

Lighten up???  Your signature is a word for word dialogue of a PMC to you and here is another word for word dialogue about another "day in the navy".  After searching most of your posts, it seems as though you need to let go of some of your navy hatred, or maybe just hatred, and you too will experience happiness and peace.   

I put a smiley face so that makes it all better.

Peace.

[Fermi2]

Ok I was a Mechanic, then an ELT and have probably forgotten more about Nuclear Power than young Justin there will ever know.

So given I've seen both sides of the equation here's a few items I had to correct from senior mechanics aka blue shirt types..

1: Mike that I adjusted the packing and the leak didn't stop. Careful inspection showed it was a body to bonnet leak. Wait NOT so careful as I could see that from almost 20 feet away.

2: Why yes I took an accurate set of readings Mike. Even as I reviewed the watch sheets and noticed 1000# Discharge pressure logged for 3 straight hours on a Pump that had been shutdown for 4 hours.

3: Slip in a Positive Displacement Pump is due to to the Pistons not moving as fast at High Discharge Pressures.

4: Me to  another EOOW qualified Mechanic: What will happen if you open that Steam Generator valve at power if there is no cooling water lined up to the sample cooler? What do you mean Mike? Well what phase will the sample be? Mike what do you mean by phase?

5: Part two of the conversation above? Well will it be water or steam or what?
Well Mike water of course.
Why?
Well Mike I'm surprised you don't know this but we ARE we take water samples on the steam generators, not steam.
At this point Mike raised his hands and walked away. This by the way was from an MM1 who always did well on the exams.

I think my point is made. There are very good ELTs, there are very good Mechanics. If you're wired to lie or make stuff up you will do so regardless of rating. I can tell you there's nothing more dangerous than an Operations Instructor who has never Operated a commercial plant. That's 100% true.

Mike

[hamsamich]

Broad and NAVLI4 i'd give you karma if I could.  Justine, you all right man maybe a little young.  I like the smiley face comment the best NAV, sort of like naming the patriot act the patriot act.  Not that i am for or against everything the patriot act has inside of it.  But why put a spin on something, just say what you mean in the meat of it, not the condiments?

I was down in ERF on the fast attack talking to a buddy about what appeared to be a SMALL good deal we might get in spite of a bunch of bad stuff that our command was laying on us....my LELT was listening (who was cool as $hit in almost all blueshirt eyes (Woodman)).  He said "James, those guys gave you a $hit sandwich earlier and now they are just putting a little bit of condiments on it so you will eat it up with a smile on your face, even though you know it's $hit the whole time."  He was right, that command really seemed to take pleasure in that sort of thing.  Our engineer even admitted it (that he liked to see [blueshirts] us in pain). 

The Navy can be good at times, but while I was in it I mostly hated it.  I think what really made me decide to get out was that "they" always had that power to screw you, and even when things were good (which was unusual for my 7.4years), you knew that things would get worse soon, and if they got so bad that most sane people would move on, there was nothing you could do about it.  And if it would have been bad because it just had to be that would have been allright, but so many times I felt it was bad when it could have been good if our command would have just opened eyes.  Wish I could have experienced Nav life the way NAV obviously did, but never got to.

[mlslstephens]

The Navy can be good at times, but while I was in it I mostly hated it.  ... Wish I could have experienced Nav life the way NAV obviously did, but never got to.

Samich, I like your point.  Like any job/career, there are good times and bad.  Fortunately for me, I've learned to forget and move past all the bad times I've had in the Navy.  I try to live my life focusing on the good times and good friends I've managed to spend my 21 years with.

Broad you are right on track with your post.  The rating badge has nothing to do with BS.

For anyone that knows me, they can testify that yes, the Navy has been good to me and my family.  However, it isn't the best choice for everyone.  By very best friend and shipmate who served with me on the Tennessee in the late 80s decided to leave the Navy and go to work in the industry.  It was the right move for him.  I decided to stay in.  That was the right choice for me.  Everyone has their own story to tell and most stories are enjoyable.  It's the guy who can never find the silver lining in the proverbial dark cloud that after a while isn't that fun to be around. 

Justin, here is my point...not that you care, but that is the beauty of the forum format.  Your signature details the story about a PMC "busting" on you and then you tell a story of your infamous watchstanding where you "bust" on some "much less intelligent ELT".  Maybe it's time to forgive that bad old PMC and who knows, maybe those dumb old ELTs will forgive you. 

[JustinHEMI05]

Lighten up???  Your signature is a word for word dialogue of a PMC to you and here is another word for word dialogue about another "day in the navy".  After searching most of your posts, it seems as though you need to let go of some of your navy hatred, or maybe just hatred, and you too will experience happiness and peace.   

I put a smiley face so that makes it all better.

Peace.

You're right and the further I get away I am getting happier I will tone down the navy hatred... I am starting to annoy myself with it.

Justin

[landlubber]

I would like to step in to say that Justin was a good student (back in the day) and a good nuke at MARF. I know Mike has mentioned in past posts that EOOW in the Navy is not worth much, and he may be right, but just being selected to qualify EOOW at MARF as a PO1 in the early 2000's means that you had to have a good attitude, good work ethic, and be smarter than the average bear. You also had to be a little bit of a kiss @##, or I wouldn't sign your chit!

[Imaginos]

Broad and NAVLI4 i'd give you karma if I could..

For less than two hours' pay you could, for an entire year! 

Justin, you all right man maybe a little young.

He's a whole 8.5% younger than you, Grampa... 

Getting back on topic (more or less), there are perhaps 5 chemistry technicians at my plant that weren't ELTs...

[Marlin]

I am not a moderator

Thanx for the help, good job. Hamsamich is right the Gold membership is very reasonable.

[hamsamich]

true, true, 8.5%.  I guess I mean time out of the navy, which I have much more of.  after some time out of the Navy, attitude changes.

but what I am saying Nav4, is the Navy ISN'T just like any other job, because you are stuck there, that is a very important fact to distinguish.

[mlslstephens]

but what I am saying Nav4, is the Navy ISN'T just like any other job, because you are stuck there, that is a very important fact to distinguish.

You know hamsamich, you are exactly right.  I, however, would have used a different word than "stuck", but either way you're right.  Several of us Navy guys are going through the transition right now and we are beginning the interview process.  Several plants have asked the question, "What are your plans after you get your license?"  At first, I didn't understand that line of questioning, what do you mean...what are my plans?  But now it is starting to sink in, after you leave the Navy, you actualy have a choice where you go.  Hmmm, interesting, a choice. 

Oh, back on the topic of the post...What is an ELT??? Anything he/she wants to be.

[wms291]

I was an ELT for the 91 DMP in Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in New Hampshire on my Fast Attack (714)....the Radcon guys were cool at the shipyard, plus some of the girls were nice...It was hell working there, but the shipyard RCTs made it better.  But talk about culture shock, we tag everything with tracking tags and log it in a book, they just tag SOME things and then forged aboud it, sorta like working in commercial.  Took me a while to get used to it, but it is so much easier...

Ha. I was an ELT for the 91 DMP in Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, VA. on my Fast Attack (709).  The 714 was the Menopause?  I was told we were supposed to go the N.H. and you guys were to stay in Norfolk.  Back on topic.  I currently work at a commercial plant and ELT got me the job in Chemistry.  We have an other ELT in the department newly hired after 6 years in.  I enjoyed my time as a Sub ELT.  Underway ELT set my own hours.  Got in line to eat first and helped with the meal so I could shoot the s**t with everyone.  Worked out when I wanted so as not to screw others.  Watched many movies.  Also allowed me to go to shore duty at the Nautilus which bought me Radcon Maintenance School.  Overall no regrets.

[LaFeet]

""Being an ELT doesn't give you more career options because it does not.""

what does this mean, and, of course you have more career options as an ELT, it opens up opportunity to be an HP, dosimetry, chem tech, work in waste water treatment plants and a bunch of other stuff. and if you want to you can still do the mechanic stuff.  Case in point: I was asked to interview for a job as a nuclear mechanic based on me being a mechanic, even though I wasn't heavy as a mechanic.  I didn't want to be a mechanic, so i didn't bother, but I was recruited.   Maybe they wouldn't of hired me, but I was qualified for the interview by resume only.

It means that anyone can become a HP.....I was not an ELT and I managed to get into this circus.....was even lined up for Sr RCT prior to retiring.  I  no longer saught the tiresome duty of sitting in front of the panel....or roving the spaces.  I have interviewed for numerous "chemistry positions" as well as many others not mentioned.  I have made my choices  based on family needs and that is that.

 Either way... I have worked with a number of GREAT ELTs (all the Narwhal guys were superior) Excellent Mau Maus and Super Tricians.   I also have the pleasure and fortune to work with a number of outstanding HPs like yourself  Sparky

[Joe Mama]

ex-ELT here....

Back in the day....

Boot Camp in Orlando Florida....1980
A-School in Great Lakes Illinois....1980
Nuclear Power School in Orlando Florida 1981....Section Leader 12 in Class 8105....The Rocks started in Section 1 ending up with the Braniacs in Section 13.
MM Training at S8G Prototype in Balston Spa New York....PARTY CITY!....once you ignore the cold winter....
ELT Training at S8G Prototype in Balston Spay New York....Summer of 1982....More Partying....
New Construction USS Florida SSBN 728 Blue Crew....took boat to Bangor Washington....
Transferred to USS Ohio SSBN 726....The Prima Donna A-hole factor registered an 11 on a scale of 5....
Started the Commerical Sr Rad Tech at Indian Point II in 1986....
Finished up in 1994 at Maine Yankee....
Currently working as a Software Developer for the last 12 years....

[Fermi2]

ELT, Hot Models want to be with them and men want to be them.

[jams723]

ELT, Hot Models want to be with them and men want to be them.

... they also have large ego's and like to sleep....... 

[GLW]

ELT, Hot Models want to be with them and men want to be them.

Look for the really cool looking dude who is surrounded by all the really hot women. That guy will be the ELT....

" Don't know, what's the spec and what do you want it to be?"

It's an easy extrapolation,...

Hot woman: "What kind of night are we having tonight?"

ELT: "Don't know, what kind of night do you want it to be?"

Hot Woman: "How am I supposed to know?"

ELT: "Tell me what you want, and I'll give you what you need."

Of course, it helps if you were listening to radio in 1974, and applied leisure time observations to the innate skills the USN ELT specialty helped you develop,...

c'mon Troja, I know you know the angle here,....

[HydroDave63]

Of course, it helps if you were listening to radio in 1974, and applied leisure time observations to the innate skills the USN ELT specialty helped you develop,...

Such as being able to "know" what S?G chemistry looked like from Nucleonics.

 I think they called that "radio-chemistry"   

[GLW]

Such as being able to "know" what S?G chemistry looked like from Nucleonics.

 I think they called that "radio-chemistry"   

funny man, I never had that issue,..

on 637's and 616's the AMR2LL was the place where nub ELT's stood watch, good ELT's stood battlestations, and S/G chemistry was analyzed,...

whenever the occasional proficiency watch by an M-Div Basic was being stood the underway ELT just jumped down and handled the two to three samples expected on any given watch,...

it was a good way to catch up on how things were going with your M-Div brother as proficiency watches were typically stood during SpecOp, transit or on-station periods and the six hour watch was going to be pretty quiet for all the engineering spaces,...

Although one fella coming back off West Pac somehow managed to slip through the cracks and was forced to stand his AMR2LL proficiency on maneuvering watch coming back into PH,...

The SPM is not a difficult piece of machinery to manipulate, if you can remember what SPM is an acronym for and where it is,...heheheheheheh,...

 

[Higgs]

I was told that getting an SRO license would get me hot chicks. While it is an ice breaker, they always say "Yeah, that's nice, but were you an ELT?"

So, there's that.

[GLW]

I was told that getting an SRO license would get me hot chicks. While it is an ice breaker, they always say "Yeah, that's nice, but were you an ELT?"

So, there's that.

  I hope the rest of your day is cool beans. (RFS)

[Fermi2]

I was told that getting an SRO license would get me hot chicks. While it is an ice breaker, they always say "Yeah, that's nice, but were you an ELT?"

So, there's that.

Yep, have you ever had women just come up and ask you to say the ELT NEC in a deep voice? Happens to me all the time.

[HydroDave63]

Yep, have you ever had women just come up and ask you to say the ELT NEC in a deep voice? Happens to me all the time.

How deep was "her" voice? Pre- or post-op?   

[Fermi2]

Hey Mr. I'm certain Bar Rafaeli and Kate Upton did NOT have an operation!

[jams723]

Hey Mr. I'm certain Bar Rafaeli and Kate Upton did NOT have an operation!

This just reinforces my they like to sleep comment..... Mike is dreaming again....

[HydroDave63]

Yep, have you ever had women just come up and ask you to say the ELT NEC in a deep voice? Happens to me all the time.

[Fermi2]

Keep in mind The Worlds Most Interesting Man did not pass ELT school so he is really The Worlds Most Interesting Man Who Is Not An ELT.

[Fermi2]

This just reinforces my they like to sleep comment..... Mike is dreaming again....

Listen Mr. Just bow to the power.

[jams723]

Listen Mr. Just bow to the power.

Ohhhhhh We're not worthy....we're not worthy.... LOL

[Fermi2]

We all know when an international crisis rears it's ugly head the first thing the President asks is "Where are the ELTS?"

[HydroDave63]

We all know when an international crisis rears it's ugly head the first thing the President asks is "Where are the ELTS?"

" and WHY are they not field-daying?!? "

[hamsamich]

Insert "ELT" for "Chuck Norris"

[Fermi2]

" and WHY are they not field-daying?!? "

NO!!! "And what do they advise about this situation?!"

[jams723]

NO!!! "And what do they advise about this situation?!"

Usually the profound ELT will scratch his head and think.... "what would Mcgyver do?"

[Fermi2]

Wait usually McGyver scratches his head and says What would an ELT do.?

[Fermi2]

Here is how your basic ELT answers when the EOOW wants to know what Steam Generator Chemistry really is!!

[drayer54]

I guess I remember ELT's a bit differently....

[Fermi2]

Huh? I've never thought you were all that bright but that makes zero sense son.

[jams723]

Huh? I've never thought you were all that bright but that makes zero sense son.

Mike, where did he get that video of you field daying on the 687?

[Higgs]

I guess I remember ELT's a bit differently....

Derek, you're jealousy is ugly. 

[Joe Mama]

When I was on the SSBN 726 and SSBN 728 the RL Lab was in the Engine Room on the Starboard Side.   And for the 4 times I was underway, I was always the Underway ELT.   Those two boats are now special ops boats.  They don't carry nuke missiles anymore from my understanding...  I was was given ELT school after prototype because I let it be known that I would be requesting it as a C school anyways.   

[Zuten]

This post is getting way off course.
What Is an ELT.

I responded in 2006, and I stand by my post! as MaxParity will attest!

What is an ELT? COOL!! A one word explanation .

MM2/ELT USS Nimitz CVN-68 1980-1985. Haze Grey and Underway. 4 Turning, 2 Burning, No OOS, No Problems. HAZE GREY AND UNDERWAY!

[ipregen]

our ELT turnover was a little briefer on the Bainbridge CGN-25, "Split/crit, same ol' sh*t"

[shehane]

Usually a really sneaky ba*#$rd!!!

[ISOCS]

Being an ELT has created many opportunities. Something about seeing the Honorable Discharge DD-214 and it stating "Submarine Nuclear Propulsion Plant Operator, Engineering Laboratory Technician" stands out. 

[Marlin]

[Marlin]

Not a criticism just amusing that we keep taking a swing at this pinata.

[Rad_Owl_2]

For what's worth... I've seen more than a few ELTs crying for their mama and swearing to never work commercial nuclear power ever again after one trip into the sub-pile room of a 70s / early 80s BWR sub-pile room to do an update survey.  Jest sayin'

[Marlin]

For what's worth... I've seen more than a few ELTs crying for their mama and swearing to never work commercial nuclear power ever again after one trip into the sub-pile room of a 70s / early 80s BWR sub-pile room to do an update survey.  Jest sayin'

 I was an ex-ELT in the reactor sump with the incores in the withdrawn position in the 70s and 80s and found it a lot of fun to be working just outside the the beam that pegged my teletector.  I guess it depends on your confirmation bias as I saw instant RadTechs the ones who had ANSI quals until they had ANSI quals on their resume in that time frame due to a rapid increase in demand due to TMI who had no clue what they were doing that had the fear you speak of.

[Rad_Owl_2]

LOL Marlin. I assume your emoticon expresses that I am idiot because I was not an ELT.  That is smug of you and entirely unnecessary.  It is easy to scorn those who were not Navy Trained but many who formed and supported this business over the past 40+ years were trained by real-world RP techs who learned by doing and seeing the worst it can be.  I was the offered the job that would have made me your supervisor in 1985.  I have worked with you periodically throughout the years and my brother (whom I introduced into the business) worked right next to you for many years.  So, I stand by my previous post.

[Marlin]

LOL Marlin. I assume your emoticon expresses that I am idiot because I was not an ELT. 

What emoticon???

That is smug of you and entirely unnecessary.  It is easy to scorn those who were not Navy Trained but many who formed and supported this business over the past 40+ years were trained by real-world RP techs who learned by doing and seeing the worst it can be. 

No scorn just another perspective to yours. I personally did not see any ex ELTs with that attitude in that timeframe. I might add that there were not 40 year plus techs at that time and I taught a lot of the "real world" techs you speak of shortly after leaving the Navy.

  I was the offered the job that would have made me your supervisor in 1985.  I have worked with you periodically throughout the years and my brother (whom I introduced into the business) worked right next to you for many years.  So, I stand by my previous post.

Really you were offered a job in Outage Management where I went from RP in that time frame. Knowing who the RPM that hired me in as a supervisor I have some doubt to that job offer as they were not looking for new management until after I left RP.

Just sayin'   

[Rad_Owl_2]

Well I could be wrong. I thought that you were at Fermi in 1985.  If that is not the case my bad.  But I was offered the Gen Supervisor job at that facility , which I turned down (re: John Bobba) due to an accepted permanent position at another NPP at the same time.  I have never worked in outage management but have filled all NPP RP positions below RPM.  As for the emoticon, it appears in your signature line.  If it is not meant to be an opinion of responders to your posts maybe you should delete it.  In closing, I also taught many RP techs new to the business.  I was not trained by the government, but I learned my craft by studying the available texts and listening to people who were experienced.

Look we could both compare lifetime dose, training and experience, awards and certificates, or we could just unzip and compare - if that's your preference. But my original post was actually geared to the fact that ELT (navy) training does not relate the commercial nuclear work as much as one may imagine.  Can ELTs hack in it the commercial arena?  Yes, but not all.  Truth be told, When I'm a Supervisor at an outage, I assign a good Junior RP tech to work with a new ex-navy/DOE tech to keep him out of trouble until he/she has my confidence.  "Trust but Verify"

[Marlin]

Well I could be wrong. I thought that you were at Fermi in 1985.  If that is not the case my bad. 

Illinois Power

As for the emoticon, it appears in your signature line.  If it is not meant to be an opinion of responders to your posts maybe you should delete it.

A reminder to myself but not bad advice for those who deal with Trolls.

Look we could both compare lifetime dose, training and experience, awards and certificates, or we could just unzip and compare - if that's your preference. But my original post was actually geared to the fact that ELT (navy) training does not relate the commercial nuclear work as much as one may imagine.  Can ELTs hack in it the commercial arena?  Yes, but not all.  Truth be told, When I'm a Supervisor at an outage, I assign a good Junior RP tech to work with a new ex-navy/DOE tech to keep him out of trouble until he/she has my confidence.  "Trust but Verify"

Also not a bad idea for someone who is working in a plant not in his experience moving to a boiler from PWR and vice-a-versa. Would apply to someone from commercial power moving to a DOE site with transuranics  or criticality issues not dealt with in commercial etc.


 

[GLW]

.........But my original post was actually geared to the fact that ELT (navy) training does not relate the commercial nuclear work as much as one may imagine...........

which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread but hey ?!?!?!?,...

you got to hear yourself type and brag about how frickin bad ass you are compared to those who are government trained,...

and truth be told, it's been a dam long time since any supervisor I coordinate with has assigned a junior to monitor a Sr. Tech regardless of where that senior tech earned their spurs,...

commercial power is just not done that way anymore, and has not been for a dam long time,...

hell, a junior is lucky if they can make senior within 8 years,...

and, when that senior fails and your answer to management is that you had a junior babysitting 'em?!?!?!?!

Well, not at an INPO 1 plant pal,...

maybe where you hang your hat,...

in the meantime, if you want to rip the "government trained",.... go start your own thread and have at it,...

oh yeah, Marlin's a nice fella,...

not me,...

[Rad_Owl_2]

Yada Yada Yada 

[hamsamich]

Plenty of bad techs who were ELTS.  And plenty who were not.

[ipregen]

I don't see how anyone can judge government training (Navy) unless they have been though it.  Can you tell us what medical school was like because you met a doctor? You must have special insight.

[SloGlo]

e.l.t.
e lectro therapist
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/electrotherapist

[GLW]

e.l.t.
e lectro therapist
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/electrotherapist

[MrHazmat]

From what I have read and heard, I thought they were almost GODS among humans.....................

[SloGlo]

g.o.d.s.
goofy often deranged subjects.

[GLW]

g.o.d.s.
goofy often deranged subjects.

that one's kinda clever,...too long, but clever,...

[SloGlo]

eye could have used dumb in lieu of deranged, butt it mite bee considered inflammatory, see aye did knot.
considered dorky all sew, butt felt it only related too a small subsection of the group.

[fiveeleven]

Exemplary Legendary Technocrats. Anointed by the Admiral in RCS H20, besieged by the many who wanted to be, but could not. Mythical Envied Nobility. ELT MEN. MM2/ELT USS NIMITZ CVN-68. 80-84.BOHICA