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Xhelix

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What is an ELT?
« on: Jan 17, 2005, 09:42 »
I was just curious, I've seen several people refer to them yet no-one ever comes right out and says what an ELT is.

I am currently in the DEP and I'm leaning towards the MM rate.  ELT is somthing for MM's isn't it?  ..Anyways, whatever information you feel like sharing is appreciated.  Thanks.

merlin_the_wizard

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #1 on: Jan 17, 2005, 10:16 »
Engineering Laboratory Technician.  It's a specialized MM.  If you pursue ELT school, you will get picked up for it in Prototype.  Once finished with Prototype you continue on with about 3 months( I think) of ELT school.  ELT's work with the chemistry levels of the nuclear reactor

ramdog_1

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #2 on: Jan 17, 2005, 11:43 »
some times it stands out! at times ELT = F.O.B.
and let the good times begin!

Offline Roll Tide

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #3 on: Jan 17, 2005, 01:00 »
ELT= Extra Lazy Technician
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dbandcjs

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #4 on: Jan 17, 2005, 01:23 »
Why's everyone hatin the Smag's

Flooznie

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #5 on: Jan 17, 2005, 01:58 »
ELT - MM who they don't want being a mechanic,except if Machinery division is short handed, then ELTs are on 2 PMS schedules.

taterhead

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #6 on: Jan 17, 2005, 03:22 »
ELT - MM who they don't want being a mechanic,except if Machinery division is short handed, then ELTs are on 2 PMS schedules.

Wow.  I have never ever seen this on a carrier.

ex-SSN585

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #7 on: Jan 17, 2005, 03:31 »
(Copy of a reply to a personal message with slight modifications)

ELT is an acronym for Engineering Laboratory Technician.  An ELT is an MM with additional training in boiler water chemistry control and analysis and reactor plant water chemistry control and analysis.  

A pressurized water reactor plant (the only type currently in use in the Navy) has two independent loops.  One loop circulates water through the nuclear reactor to transfer the heat generated by the nuclear reaction to a heat exchanger.  The other loop runs through the heat exchanger, turns to steam, and runs the steam turbines.  The loops are independent because the loop running through the nuclear reactor becomes radioactive.  (Of course, that's a simplified explanation, but it will do for now.)

Things in contact with water tend to corrode (rust).   (That's also simplified.)  So, to minimize corrosion, we add chemicals to the water.  We control the water in the reactor loop (called the primary loop) differently than the water in the steam plant loop (called the secondary loop).  One of the jobs of the ELT is to know what chemicals to add and to periodically monitor the water to determine whether or not to add more water or more chemicals to the plant.

I said that the water in the primary loop becomes radioactive.  Ideally, the water in the secondary loop is not radioactive.  Another job of an ELT is to perform radiochemical analyses to determine the level of radioactivity and what isotopes are causing the radioactivity in the primary loop, and also to test the secondary loop to ensure none of the radioactive water has leaked from the primary side to the secondary side.

The third job of the ELT is to monitor the radioactivity released by the nuclear reactor plant.  This is done in two ways.  First is to monitor the radiation produced by the reactor plant.  This is by using instruments such as a geiger counter.  The second is to monitor the contamination that might have escaped from the primary plant.  (Radiation is like the heat given off, contamination is like dirt or dust which is left when water evaporates.)  This is done in a similar fashion, but with a more sensitive instrument.

Typically, these tasks are performed exclusively by ELTs.  In the fleet, non-ELT MMs can by trained by ELTs to perform boiler water analyses, but as I remember, the ELT must add the chemicals.  The MMs do this because it is part of their watchstanding duties.  MMs can also perform radiation and contamination surveys, but usually do not because, with a few exceptions, the surveys are not part of their watchstanding duties.  Primary plant analyses are only performed by ELTs (with some exceptions, such as supervisory watchstation qualifications).

Nuclear ratings in my time were MMs, ETs, EMs, and ICs.  Prior to my time there were more ratings.  Currently, there are no more ICs  (Interior communication electricians) since the EMs and ICs did the same job.

An important part of nuclear qualifications is cross rate training.  So, everyone will learn the theory behind what an ELT does (what chemicals are used, what the water specifications are, what the radiation and contamination levels mean), but generally, only the ELT will perform those tasks.

Hope this helps.  More detail is available on request.

In reply to some other comments:

At times, prototypes have involuntarily assigned graduating MMs to ELT school.  In particular, I had one in my division who finished highly ranked in his class and had his heart set on being a welder.  (The two additional schools available to MMs who have successfully completed prototype training are ELT and Nuclear-grade welder.  These welders usually perform emergency repairs only.  Routine welding on both nuclear and non-nuclear systems is performed by the Hull Technician (HT) rating.)  So, some ELTs really would prefer to work as MMs most of the time.

I think I recall a case where a person was able to convince his detailer to get ELT school as his C school.

Some ELTs are picked up after prototype for staff instructor duty.  Also, some MMs who have completed staff instructor duty get ELT school before being sent to the fleet.  (Unfortunately, in my experience, they come to the fleet with a totally different attitude than one who has been trained initially as an ELT.)

taterhead

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #8 on: Jan 17, 2005, 07:51 »
(Copy of a reply to a personal message with slight modifications)

A pressurized water reactor plant (the only type currently in use in the Navy) has two independent loops.  

Wow.  Thorough reply.

In the interst of accuracy, an A4W reactor plant (Nimitz class carriers)  has 4 loops.

Offline sefrick

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #9 on: Jan 18, 2005, 05:27 »
Wow, what a reply!! I would have just said , Easy Living Tech. It's a pretty good path for MM's who plan on doing 6 and out, simply because they spend little time working with M-div, but they have the opportunity for additional training and they still learn to operate the plant.

I recommend that any ELT who intends to spend 20 years in the Nuclear Navy, be a proactive member in M-div as a MECHANIC. Reason being, once a  ELT  makes Chief, the only sea billet for them is M-Div LCPO (Leading Chief Petty Officer). If they are at that point in thier career and never worked as a mechanic, writing packages,  becoming familiar with tech manuals, perfoming PMS, etc, they may have a difficult time as an M-Div LCPO, unless they have a strong 1st Class under them.

Also, it's usually it's the Chief's job to train the MPA, (Main Propulsion Assistant - the Division Officer). If the Chief doesn't have the knowlege to pass on, your division will wind up having a moron making reports to the Eng and Skipper, putting your division in a negative lime light.
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ex-SSN585

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #10 on: Jan 18, 2005, 06:52 »
Hey, I have to ask, is it just a sub versus surface thing where ELTs have the reputation of living in some hole?

After taking two boats through the last half of a shipyard overhaul, I can't remember any of my people who weren't accompliished mechanics.  I can see what you mean to a certain extent on my third boat, a 688, which was not in overhaul.

I always encouraged my guys to read the tech manuals and NSTMs, especially those who weren't advanced by STAR, because it helped them with the rate training exams.  (Of course, by reading other threads here, it looks like that wouldn't help them as much these days.)

On the "S-boats" the diesel was in AMSLL, a natural ELT watchstation, and the nukes maintained the diesel.  Too bad those boats are gone.  I thought it was a good experience.

Plus, for some reason, on my boats, M-Div didn't maintain many QAIs and I was always involved in package work.

I usually worked really well with the leading 1st, but usually had conflicts with the M-Div chiefs because even if they were overmanned, they always wanted more bodies.  One of my worst experiences was with an ELT trained M-Div Chief who was more overbearing than most.

Then again, I'm a 5' tall wimp with coke-bottle glasses and a quiet, squeaky voice.

My worst experience with being labelled as an ELT was transferring to a new boat.  I'd been standing EWS/EDPO for about two years and the Engineer on the new boat refused to qualify me because he had never seen an EWS ELT.  (Of course, this Engineer was a former ELT himself.)  I finally qualified after some personnel losses when, during Christmas standdown, I was needed to support three section EDPO and port/stbd ELT, concurrently.

Speaking of ELTs and M-Div, I think both would gain something by qualifying Throttleman.  I know ERUL/ERS get to warm up the main engines and that TO is an E-Div watchstation, but standing watch as TO when E-Div was shorthanded helped that much more on rate training exams (again, maybe not, but when we took the same exams as the conventionals).  Plus, it was fun, as a change of pace.
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2005, 11:51 by ex-SSN585 »

Mike Raymond

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #11 on: Jan 18, 2005, 09:54 »
Additionally, on the outside, ELT's are usually the most well rounded people for hiring.  If they remember their reactor theory it's a big plus.  ELT's are "hirable" in Chemistry, Rad Protection, Operations, and Mechanical Maintenance.  With some extra quals while in the Navy, they can also end up in training and QA. 

Good choice for those looking to stay in or get out.

dbandcjs

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #12 on: Jan 18, 2005, 10:31 »
 Reason being, once a  ELT  makes Chief, the only sea billet for them is M-Div LCPO (Leading Chief Petty Officer).

This is true in the SSN world.  But on the surface an ELT is an ELT until he becomes BULL or enter another program. CMC, LDO, CWO.  MELT (Master ELT) billets exist on all carriers, and used to be cruisers.  RL is a big division on a suface ship.  I had one Chief go to M-Div, but that was because we had one of our M-Div chiefs leave the deployment early, and this particular ELT chief has just been med-disqualed subs and his last billet was as an M-Div CPO on a boat.

matthewmiller01

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #13 on: Jan 18, 2005, 10:57 »
ELT - MM who they don't want being a mechanic,except if Machinery division is short handed, then ELTs are on 2 PMS schedules.

This only happened if the LELT was a pushover and wouldn't (or couldn't) stand up for his guys. 
Don't forget SMAG=Superior Mechanic And God! ;)

mattrev

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 18, 2005, 05:51 »


This only happened if the LELT was a pushover and wouldn't (or couldn't) stand up for his guys. 
Don't forget SMAG=Superior Mechanic And God! ;)

Not when I was LELT.  My guys were some of the most senior/qualified guys in M-Div.  Underway, there wasn't really much in the way on PM's for either group to do so we tended to stick to our own thing, but if a piece of equipment broke down,  we were there too. During refits, everybody who wasn't "The ELT", stood rover, cept me after I qualified EDPO. :-) Loved that 8-section duty...
And we were there at 0300 standing over the hydro pumps or in the condenser changing zincs. It had more to do with the LELT I relieved having that philosophy (that being an ELT was an extra duty like a welder) than anything else.



Fermi2

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 18, 2005, 09:13 »
Look for the really cool looking dude who is surrounded by all the really hot women. That guy will be the ELT.

By the way ELTs have no real preference for being hired outside the Navy. As a whole the % of ELTs in commercial plants is just about the same as in the Navy Program. I'm an ex ELT and no one really cared, except to give me crap.

Mike

taterhead

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 18, 2005, 10:09 »
For some reason, ELTs seemed to have more money than regular mechanics, but they sucked at poker, which meant that they ended up giving it to us anyway.

Offline johnigma

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 19, 2005, 03:42 »
I'm pretty nubly but I've noticed something about ELT's already.  They never want you to know what they're up to but they always want to know why you want to know.

For example, something as simple as asking for tape:
Me- "Hey man, can I have some tape."
ELT- "Why?  What do you need tape for?"
Me- "Taping something.  Are you using it."
ELT- "Maybe."
Me- "So can I have some?"
ELT- ".... Why?"

This can go on for hours.  What's up with that?

I'm an RO btw.
girls are pretty

ex-SSN585

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 19, 2005, 04:51 »
ELT - "Yeah, but why do you NEED it?"
YOU - "Because I need to TAPE SOMETHING!"
ELT - "EB Green?"
YOU - "Okay."
ELT - "  'cause EB Green is hard to remove and leaves a residue."
YOU - "I just need some tape."
ELT - "Well, if you just need tape, EB Green is on the COSAL and we only have a few rolls."
YOU - "So?"
ELT - "The ENG has caught people making tape balls."
YOU - "I just need to tape something."
ELT - "Are you helping E-DIV?"
YOU - "Maybe."
ELT - " 'cause if you're bagging light bulbs you need the red stuff."
YOU - "That will do."
ELT - "Well, we don't have any.  Maybe the yard workers have some."
YOU - "What's in that bag?"
ELT - "Tape."
YOU - "I just need a little."
ELT - "That's RADCON tape."
YOU - "oh"
ELT - 'Why, what are you hiding?"
YOU - "Nothing ... "
ELT - "What did you guys do?"
YOU - "NOTHING!"
ELT - "EWS! EOOW! ENGINEER! The ROs are hiding something!"
YOU - "We aren't doing anything!  I just need some tape. T-A-P-E. tape."
ELT - "Why, what do you need tape for?"

Offline metalman40

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #19 on: Jan 19, 2005, 05:32 »
It was a brisk Saturday in late November at New London and the Local NRRO rep had decided to do a monitor watch on a certain S5W class boat. He went down to the dock crossed the brow and headed to the wardroom to pay his respects to the SDO. He then headed aft and entered manuvering. He spent hi two hours silently watching the SRO push the button. At the end of his  two hours he got up to leave but shocked the SRO by clearing his throat and beginning to speak. "SRO what is 2 plus 2?" is what he said. The SRO whipped out his reverse polish notation HP calculator and plugged in his data whereupon he stated "That would be 4.00 sir." "Very Well" said the NRRO Rep. He then turned his gaze upon the SEO and asked "SEO what is 2 plus 2?" "Well let's see. That would be somewhere between 3.5 and 4.5 let's call it 4.0." "Very well " said the NRRO man as he exited manuvering. He then proceeded to tour the engineering spaces. He eventually found the SRW filling out his logs in AMR2LL and asked him this same inane question. The SRW gave him a short blank stare and replied "Uh, that's 4 sir." "Very Well." the NRRO Rep replied.  He then headed forward to make his report to the SDO and leave the boat. As he was walking past nucleonics he noticed the ELT sitting inside with the door cracked fevorishily filling out his primary chem logs. He opened the door and asked "ELT what is 2 plus 2?" The ELT after almost falling out of his chair looked at the NRRO guy then stuck his head out into the passageway looking left and right. After making sure no one else was around he replied " Don't know, what's the spec and what do you want it to be?"
Sometimes you just want to say dilligaf and go dfr.

Flooznie

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #20 on: Jan 19, 2005, 11:17 »
ROFLMAO!!!!!  That is awesome!   Ahh, boat memories!!!

ET1 (SS)

ex-SSN585

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 19, 2005, 04:44 »
You must admit that (submarine) ELTs are have gradually been more and more accepted into the general nuke community.

In the "S-boats", nucleonics (the space where the ELTs perform their radiochemical analyses) was in the forward, starboard corner of enlisted berthing (OPSLL).  (OPS is the operations compartment.  The earlier submarines were partitioned into the torpedo room, operations compartment, reactor compartment, auxiliary machinery room, and engineroom.)
(S-boats:  Skipjack or 585 class in which all names began with the letter S.)

Then nucleonics moved to the OSPUL passageway, within sight of the reactor compartment door.  We were opposite the radio room and most of our counter space was occupied by the infamous 70mm film developing machine.
(Sturgeon or 637 class:  While Sturgeon also begins with the letter S, that is just a coincidence and there was another class ... Thresher, renamed Permit or 594 class ... between the Skipjacks and the Sturgeons.  Same arrangement as above, but the auxiliary machinery room was referred to as the auxiliary machinery space, AMS)

Now we work in the engineroom, along with everyone else.  (Now submarines have a single watertight door, separating the engineroom from the forward compartment.)
(Los Angeles or 688 class, and the unique Tullibee SSN-597)

(Explanations provided so as not to be cryptic to non-Navy and prospective Navy readers.)

ELTsmag

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 20, 2005, 12:49 »
Only problem with people becoming ELTs after they finish their Junior Staff Instructor Tour at Prototype is that they are so very close to becoming 1st class and know almost nothing about ELT duties when they get out to the fleet, where as senior 2nd classes or junior 1st classes they will be expected to know their ELT stuff backwards and forwards.  Lets face it, considering the enormous amount of things to learn to become a proficient ELT, 3 months isn't near enough to learn it all-it took me about a year to get 90% of the stuff we do learned (you gotta do the procedure before you fully understand it, and there's ALOT of different procedures).
I have to admit I really love my job as an ELT and would fully recommend anybody considering it to give it a shot.  Don't listen to all those jealous fools, they are silly

Xhelix

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 20, 2005, 02:44 »
Awesome, I really appreciate all the posts here.

Just some minor questions I failed to incorporate into my orginal post:

1.  How do you become an ELT? (After prototype, yes, but... how?  raise your hand and say "uh.. sir?  I was kinda... well, ya know.... god ****it make me an ELT!"?)

2. I guess thats really all I had, so for two, see one.

Thanks in advance!

ex-SSN585

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Re: What is an ELT?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 20, 2005, 04:52 »
For any special school or program, the standard answer is to run a special request chit.  You're likely to see these before it comes time when you'd request ELT school.  An example from years ago is that people had to submit a special request chit to wear civilian clothes after completing A school.

The second part is that for the special request to be received favorably, you should attempt to receive the highest class standing possible in your NPS and prototype class.  Don't feel the pressure that you have to be number one, but the top half would be nice, and top 10% or 25% should be enough.

Finally, the dreaded phrase, "Needs of the Navy".  This is the primary driving factor.  However, since the Nuclear Field seems to be severely undermanned, I wouldn't expect this to be an influence, except if you don't want to be an ELT.

 


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