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Author Topic: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks  (Read 4657 times)

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Offline Marlin

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Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« on: Aug 17, 2016, 10:48 »
Tree-rings reveal secret clocks that could reset key dates across the ancient world

"...the unusually high levels of the radioactive isotope carbon-14 found in tree-rings laid down during the radiation bursts could help reliably pinpoint dates. The distinct spikes act as time-markers like secret clocks contained in timber, papyri, baskets made from living plants or other organic materials, says the paper published in the Royal Society Journal Proceedings A."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-08/uoo-trs081616.php

Offline GLW

Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #1 on: Aug 17, 2016, 11:25 »
Tree-rings reveal secret clocks that could reset key dates across the ancient world

"...the unusually high levels of the radioactive isotope carbon-14 found in tree-rings laid down during the radiation bursts could help reliably pinpoint dates. The distinct spikes act as time-markers like secret clocks contained in timber, papyri, baskets made from living plants or other organic materials, says the paper published in the Royal Society Journal Proceedings A."

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-08/uoo-trs081616.php

interesting but hardly new news,...

c'mon really?!?!?,...

1996

http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/31/060/31060707.pdf

1990

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/x90-033?journalCode=cjfr#.V7SBExIYGPI

1976

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/JC081i021p03688/abstract

1968

https://www.ganino.com/games/Science/science%20magazine%201968-1969/root/data/Science%201968-1969/pdf/1969_v165_n3898/1727330.pdf

and so on and so forth,...

the newsbot drudge shotgun effect is okay, it does seem to fill up a lot of bandwidth with trivia and junk mail,...

I'm just saying,....

don't hate it, don't like it either, must be one of those greater good things,... :-\

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Chimera

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #2 on: Aug 17, 2016, 01:25 »
How many trees do we have that go back over 2,000 years?

Offline GLW

Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #3 on: Aug 17, 2016, 01:33 »
How many trees do we have that go back over 2,000 years?

last time I counted: 38


doofass qwerty taps,...
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2016, 01:34 by GLW »

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Marlin

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #4 on: Aug 17, 2016, 02:14 »
interesting but hardly new news,...

c'mon really?!?!?,...


 ::)

Really, Really, this is a current paper linking specific solar activity to dating more precisely in a newly published paper. Yes carbon dating of charcoal and any other carbon bearing source is old news but this is new The paper, 'Anchoring historical sequences using a new source of astro-chronological tie-points', is published in the journal, Proceedings of the Royal Society A.

1996

http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/31/060/31060707.pdf


C14 produced in nuclear fuel cycle... nothing to do with dating with tree rings based on solar activity.


1990

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/x90-033?journalCode=cjfr#.V7SBExIYGPI


C14 in tree rings due to fallout in the 20th century


1976

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/JC081i021p03688/abstract


More C14 research for the bomb.


1968

https://www.ganino.com/games/Science/science%20magazine%201968-1969/root/data/Science%201968-1969/pdf/1969_v165_n3898/1727330.pdf


Comparison of Pantagonian trees to trees in the northern hemisphere.


How many trees do we have that go back over 2,000 years?

Since the article deals with construction material that would be irrelevant.




   Come on guys apples and oranges, these guys are linking solar/cosmic radiation to narrow the current carbon dating techniques. I will grant you that carbon dating is not new but astro-chronological tie-points is. Beyond dating there is a potential to use this to better track solar activity coming back from the other direction.

   It is posted in trivia  :P

 [coffee]

chuckdhuff

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #5 on: Aug 17, 2016, 02:25 »
last time I counted: 38


doofass qwerty taps,...



I know it's Wikipedia, but according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_trees



 looks like the number is 15 confirmed and 27 estimated with a total of 42. I'm positive this is the first time I have ever wondered what the number was.
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2016, 02:26 by ksheed12 »

Offline GLW

Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #6 on: Aug 17, 2016, 02:27 »

......................
   It is posted in trivia  :P
.............
 


well yeah, valid point,...

belay the last,... :D

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline GLW

Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #7 on: Aug 17, 2016, 04:05 »
...... I'm positive this is the first time I have ever wondered what the number was.

well, 38 or 42, let's just leave it at that, I'm too tired to care further,... :P ;) :) 8)



been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Rennhack

Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #8 on: Aug 17, 2016, 05:17 »
Oh my Goodness... that Argument skit drove me nuts when I was a kid.

Offline Rennhack

Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #9 on: Aug 17, 2016, 05:51 »
What about Clonal trees?

42?  And no Douglas Adams emoji?  [hitchhiker] [42]

[/youtube]

« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2016, 05:59 by Rennhack »

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #10 on: Aug 17, 2016, 09:34 »
Speaking of wikipedia, I've fact checked it time and time again and it hasn't been wrong about items that aren't too controversial.  Great place to get a baseline of data, in depth not so much...

Chimera

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #11 on: Aug 18, 2016, 10:20 »

Since the article deals with construction material that would be irrelevant.


What???  The primary article at the beginning of this thread talks about using C-14 in tree rings for a more accurate dating of ancient civilizations.  What are you talking about with "construction materials"?  My original question still stands:  How many trees greater than 2000 years old do we have to make this a viable supposition?  As far as that goes, they would have to be trees in the general location of the ancient civilization under question to allow for global variances in the production of C-14 from cosmic rays.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #12 on: Aug 18, 2016, 10:46 »
What???  The primary article at the beginning of this thread talks about using C-14 in tree rings for a more accurate dating of ancient civilizations.  What are you talking about with "construction materials"?  My original question still stands:  How many trees greater than 2000 years old do we have to make this a viable supposition?  As far as that goes, they would have to be trees in the general location of the ancient civilization under question to allow for global variances in the production of C-14 from cosmic rays.

Planks and boards are construction materials.


The crucial point is that the time-markers will also be present in every living plant or tree that grew at the time of a radiation surge, including in the timber used in ancient buildings or other artefacts fashioned from the plants.
« Last Edit: Aug 18, 2016, 10:48 by Marlin »

Offline Marlin

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Re: Tree-rings reveal secret clocks
« Reply #13 on: Aug 18, 2016, 12:33 »
As far as that goes, they would have to be trees in the general location of the ancient civilization under question to allow for global variances in the production of C-14 from cosmic rays.

  I am speculating here but with my experience with plumes and distribution would seem to make C-14 disribution global not local at least in the latitudes of the air streams. Emergency planning and volcanic activity would seem to give us  a foundation for my assumption. Each of these like any other terrestrial event has a point source and a high local deposition. The material from an event that is airborne and ejected into the upper atmosphere travels the world, at a plant I was working we saw activity increase (very small) every time the cloud from Chernobyl circled the globe. Now change the source to one quarter to half the planet in the upper atmosphere I suspect that the fallout from that kind of event would not be localized.

   Just a little RadCon math I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

 


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