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joecool2567

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Star reenlisment
« on: Feb 07, 2005, 04:08 »
hey im an ELT straight out of prototype and about to hit my two year point i just wanted to here some pros and cons about star reenlisting and maybe some really good jobs in the ELT field i should be looking for when i get out.

JsonD13

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #1 on: Feb 07, 2005, 05:44 »
Re-enlist:  get out 6 years from when you re-up, get probably 30-some K for a bonus.  If your'e out at sea, no barganing chip to pick orders when  you rotate back for your shore tour (probably will be at prototype then).  From my point of view you would probably have a better chance at EWS before you get out if you re-enlist (not necessarily at your two year point).  Your CCC will tell you that it's best to re-up the day after your two year point because if you stay navy you will make more in bonuses that way.

Don't Re-enlist: Get out, get a job doing what you want to where you want to. 

The choice is yours.

P.S. Don't re-enlist for the money, have a good reason to do it.  From what I see on here you could easily make up for that bonus when you get out.

MM2 Hout

shayne

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #2 on: Feb 07, 2005, 04:13 »
Don't re-enlist for the money, have a good reason to do it.  From what I see on here you could easily make up for that bonus when you get out.

MM2 Hout

I second that. 

Don't forget to consider that the ship doesn't transfer you and you have to do the entire 6 years on the ship. 

What you don't make up in bonus when you get out, you make up in quality of life.  Imagine making exactly the same amount of money when you get out and you only work 40 hours, sleep at home, and not waisting your time shining your shoes.

Flooznie

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #3 on: Feb 07, 2005, 06:51 »
I thought Star Reenlisting was the best decision I've ever made in the Navy.  I did it at sea during Westpac in the gulf, so I got 45k tax free and a free promotion to E5.  This only added 2 1/2 years to my contract.  My wife got very ill, so I had to transfer off the boat, and so my last 3 years in the Navy were on shore duty, having the absolute time of my life.  Whatever price I paid on the boat, I got it all back on shore duty.  My EAOS ended up being at the time my 3 year shore tour would be up anyway.  If you get a chance to STAR and go to General shore duty, do it.  You can get your degree, spend time with your spouse and save money up.  Now, when you get out, you have a degree and something more to add to your resume that you didn't have before.

ET1 (SS)

Kern2712

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #4 on: Feb 07, 2005, 06:58 »
Alot of people will tell you right after you get to the boat that if you re-enlist, you will get off the boat faster.  Keep in mind that this is rarely true.  You will get off the boat when your division and the ship can afford to let you go, and whether you've re-enlisted or not does not factor in.  

Get some time in the pond before you decide to re-enlist.  What I mean by this is to spend a decent amount of time underway on your ship before you decide to extend your contract with the Navy.  Alot of people think that after they leave the ship and transfer somewhere like prototype that there is no chance of ever returning to sea.  Again, this is not true.  Guess what happens if you screw up at prototype?  You guessed it, another sea tour.

So spend some time on the boat and then decide if it is something you want to keep doing before you make any commitments.

cave_dog42

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #5 on: Feb 07, 2005, 08:51 »
does anyone know if it is common to do the STAR re-enlistment while at sea so you can get it tax free, or do they try to control it so you have to pay taxes?

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #6 on: Feb 07, 2005, 09:40 »
Reenlistment bonuses, like all pay, are tax-free ONLY if they are earned in a COMBAT ZONE.  Being at sea is not enough.  Do your homework before you give them not only two years of your life - but two years of your YOUTH!!!  You will never ever ever ever ever get them back at any price.
Money is the worst possible reason to reenlist.  If you do not absolutely love the Navy, you should not reenlist.
The reason they try to get you at the two year point is that the "new" hasn't worn off yet and you are probably broke too.  A year later, you may not like it so much or need the money either.  By then it's too late.
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shayne

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #7 on: Feb 07, 2005, 11:03 »
It wasn't uncommon for a person to STAR when they got to the ship.  6 years later they were getting out of the Navy from that same ship.  The command didn't allow them to transfer to a shore duty.  IF you could handle the ship life for this time and really enjoy the sea life, then it might be worth it to you to re-enlist.  However, just to re-enlist for the money or to gamble on an early rotation date is not smart.

I did re-enlist for 4 years, but only after I had orders to Ballston Spa, NY.  I had only 3 years of sea time when I got my orders too.  I enjoyed my shore duty, all 47 months of it.  I did get my Bachelors degree there and when my tour was up, I got out.

cave_dog42

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #8 on: Feb 07, 2005, 11:48 »
so would my chances of getting shore duty increase if i didn't do the STAR? I think I will enjoy ship life but I dont know about being assigned to a ship for 6 years. Would I rotate to shore duty if I re-enlisted again after the STAR re-enlistment? or would that be up to the command? I'm not thinking of re-enlisting for the money, right now I havent experienced any aspects of Navy life outside of my recruiting station but if I were to re-enlist it would be beacuse I love the Navy, the money would only be what it is...a bonus for serving  my country and doing what I love, that is if I have a good experience which I hope I will.

shayne

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #9 on: Feb 08, 2005, 12:16 »
Your chances of getting rotated doesn't really have anything to do with how and when you re-enlist.  PRD for Nukes is 5 yrs sea, 2 yrs shore.  If you rotate to a nuclear pipeline training shore duty, they extend your rotation to 5/3.  Depending on the needs of the Navy, ships manning, your A school, Power school, and Prototype grades, and the desire of the ship to allow you to transfer will dictate if you are transfered.  I believe you will also need waivers to get transfered to any of the nuclear pipeline schools for instructor duty if you were not in the top 50%. 

I was transfered off the ship early because prototype was in need of bodies and the USS California had enough if not too many EM's.  I submitted the paperwork to transfer (1306?), the ship approved it, and when my orders were recieved, I re-enlisted to cover the new orders. 

Not to convince you that STAR is not good, you just may want to thing about this aspect of it.  I saw too many people get the ship, STAR, Qualify, then find out the needs of the Navy has them stay on the ship.  Most of them looked forward to rotating around the 3 or 4 year mark to finish their career on shore to find out that the Navy needs them at sea.  A guy (STAR re-enlistment) on my ship wanted to transfer to prototype at his 4 year mark, but the ship didn't think he was instructor material and he ended up doing the full 6 on the ship.  Also a lot of STAR guys found out that when they qualified and had to stand watch or do maintenance, being at sea was no longer as fun as it seemed in RT division watching movies and playing cards.
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2005, 07:09 by Shayne »

taterhead

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #10 on: Feb 08, 2005, 01:59 »
I am not sure what everyone's background is here, but here is my experience on surface ships:

Detailers would give up to 24 months sea duty credit for taking orders to prototype.  Most folks could get off the ship between their 3-4 yr point of sea time to go to prototype.  Realize that if your 3 yr point happens to be right in the middle of a work up to deployment or ORSE, you may have to wait until it is over to leave.

In case there is any confusion on this, there is NO opportunity to transfer to a shore duty while serving a 6 yr enlistment.  You must reenlist at least once to get the opportunity to to somewhere else.

Echo what most others here said-think it over.  Reenlisting is a personal decision.  You have to serve out the contract, not your CCC, LCPO, or your LPO.  They will provide you with the facts, but the decision to reenlist is yours and yours alone.  If you decide to reenlist, check any FTN attitude you may have had at the brow.  The first time you sign the contract, you may have been in the dark.  We all were.   The second time, however, there is no excuse.  You know what you are getting into this time.  Nothing angers me more than folks who take the money and promotion, then continue to be a bastion of hate and discontent-

FWIW-
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2005, 02:08 by taterhead »

shayne

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #11 on: Feb 08, 2005, 03:30 »
  Nothing angers me more than folks who take the money and promotion, then continue to be a bastion of hate and discontent-

Well said.



In case there is any confusion on this, there is NO opportunity to transfer to a shore duty while serving a 6 yr enlistment.


I wished Vegas worked this way.  Check out the cards, if your hand is dealt then lay down your money.
Quote
I was transfered off the ship early because prototype was in need of bodies and the USS California had enough if not too many EM's.  I submitted the paperwork to transfer (1306?), the ship approved it, and when my orders were recieved, I re-enlisted to cover the new orders.
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2005, 07:12 by Shayne »

taterhead

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #12 on: Feb 08, 2005, 01:22 »
Of course, there is the SUPER UBER RARE EXCEPTION to the rule.

 ;)

 

RCLCPO

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #13 on: Feb 09, 2005, 02:35 »

Don't forget to consider that the ship doesn't transfer you and you have to do the entire 6 years on the ship. 

Whoa!  If you ever saw anyone not be allowed to transfer once their sea duty tour (now 4 and a half years) was completed, then I can only conclude a few things: 1) his chief was spineless, or 2) he was above body fat standards to be able to transfer, or 3) he was lied to.

Just because someone takes the option to STAR does NOT mean they spend any more time at sea.  It does mean, though, that at the end of their sea tour they may have time left on their contract.  If the shore duty they're looking for requires even more time, then they will need to sign an extension to obligate the time necessary (obliserve) to get that shore duty, or re-enlist again.  As a former career counselor, I can tell you I would certainly try to convince someone that it is in their best interest to make such an extension and obliserve for the desired orders, vice stay on board until their contract runs out.  Shore duty--real shore duty, not as a student-- is one of the best jobs in the world.  To be an instructor was, even while teaching an assigned class, the best of part-time Navy imaginable.

While serving on four subs I have seen only one example of someone stuck on board and unable to transfer to shore duty, and that was because he was over the body fat standards.  If he had lost the weight, he could have transferred.

Like a lot of 20+ year sailors on this site, every enlistment of mine was going to be my last.  When good reasons are there, and the decision is carefully weighed regarding all the pros and cons, re-enlisting can set you up for life.  As it happened, each time I re-enlisted is was for a good reason, and in retrospect, I should have STAR'd when I had the chance.

shayne

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Re: Star reenlistment
« Reply #14 on: Feb 09, 2005, 07:36 »
That may be the reason so many of them stayed on the ship.  They didn't manage to get a transfer at the 3 or 4 year mark and near the end of 5 years with 1 year left, choose to finish their time. 

ELT straight out of prototype and about to hit my two year point i just wanted to here some pros and cons about star reenlisting

I'm not saying that STAR or staying in the Navy is not a good idea, just that it has to appeal to the individual.  The STAR program is very good program, you will get E-5, 'C' school, 6 year bonus for approx additional 2 years, and a 3 year PRD.  (1993-2000 as I remember it)  However, based on my experience, I saw too many Nukes right out of Prototype get to the ship and STAR before they qualified or did any time at sea.  Then year or so later when deployed they are standing watch, performing maintenance, and cleaning, they figure out that they don't like the job and wish they didn't STAR.

So my best advice is to qualify, do some time at sea, and figure out if you like working in the Navy.  If so then re-enlist.  I myself thought about STAR when I got to the ship, however I found I didn't like being at Sea.  It wasn't for me.  However I had a great time as an instructor in NY.  If the Navy would have let me stay there vice going back to sea, I might have stayed in the Navy.

joecool2567

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #15 on: Feb 09, 2005, 05:31 »
thank you all for your opinions it helps to have so input from people that have been in and got out other than from people that are still in.

Steel Shark

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #16 on: Feb 12, 2005, 01:41 »
I highly recommend the reenlistment, and contrary to many above ... do it for the money.  You don't necessarily need to STAR reenlist.  Two questions: Are you an E-5 yet?  Do you have a college degree?

The first question is to offer realistic advice on when to reenlist.  The biggest bennie to STAR is the auto E-5.  If you're already there, it is generally better to wait (my opinion) if you are ONLY going to reenlist once.  Few people know at the two year point if they want to make the NAVY a career, so again better to wait.  If you are an E-4 however, you benefit by the advancement and your time in rate for E-6 starts immediately.

The second question kind of ties into the first, but your 6 year enlistment is largely school and sea time.  Granted, we get paid fairly well nowadays, but at the end of that, go to shore duty and get at least a Bachelor's degree.  That makes a difference in the civilian force.  The Navy pays 100% tuition.  Plus you can then use the GI bill for your Master's when you get out.

Whatever you do, do not go past the 4 year point.  Your current two year extension is canceled when you reenlist before it takes effect, and counts to your bonus.  So if you reenlist STAR the day before you go over 4 years, you get 6 years of SRB, the day after you go over 4 years, you get 4 years of SRB.

Keep in mind that to get SRB, you have to go two years beyond your current contract.  You need to look at your PRD and then look at the tour length if you go to shore duty (NFAS and NPS are 36 months) and I think prototype is 34 (not sure though).  Detailers can waive sea time for prototype, but don't count on it.  The win-win, if your not making the Navy a career, is to reenlist to get just enough time to get that 3 year shore billet, get your degree and say Aloha Navy.   So you get a bonus, get the degree and are more competitive in the civilian force, all while having some time to regain sanity after that sea tour.  ;')

   
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2005, 01:22 by Steel Shark »

ex-SSN585

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #17 on: Feb 13, 2005, 05:00 »
Just another opinion from an ex-lifer:

As an ELT, I would wait until you have experienced the fleet, expecially if you are a submarine ELT going to a fast attack.

By this time, you've experienced advancement exams.  In my opinion, the only reason to consider automatic advancement as the incentive is if you don't feel comfortable with Navy testing.  On my three boats, I only remember one ELT who had trouble with an E-5 test, and that was only before I knew he needed some advice about how to prepare for the exam.

I don't think getting a C school is an advantage for you.  In fact, I was looking at what I assume to be the current instruction the other day to answer someone else's question, and I didn't see any authorized C schools for ELT NECs.  I didn't even see the Advanced Aux package that used to be available for MMs.  I STAR reellisted just before the four year point, but never requested my C school.  (I would have waived it to get back to sea, but that never came up when talking to a detailer.)  I never met any E-6 and below ELT who STAR reenlisted and went to a C school, although now that I've said that, I'd guess someone will give their experience as a reply.  (I say E-6 and below because although I knew some E-7s and above, the subject never came up.)

STAR C schools for nuclear trained personnel can be found here:
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/MILPERS/Articles/1510-020.PDF

It would be great if you could plan your career, as others have mentioned, to have shore duty for your last years in the Navy.  You must consider that, just as the exceptions mentioned where the circumstances were particularly favorable, there are other things that could happen.  Instead of getting tender duty, instructor duty, or being picked up for a degree completion program, you could get some needs-of-the-Navy, CNO-priority billet, like recruiting.

I'll mention this with the emphasis that I consider it to be an exception and not what the average sailor today would expect:  I had finished my first five year sea tour and was deployed in the middle of a followup three year tour.  At the two year point, I ended up with orders to recruiting duty to report a week after returning from WESTPAC.

(OK, now for the circumstances that are not typical and are explained in more detail for those who might think they are improbable.  I might not have been on the detailer's good side because I had turned down instructor duty in Hawaii to go back to sea.  Oh, never get on your detailer's bad side.  When I turned down shore duty, my 1306 said "any boat not in the shipyard", so guess where he sent me?  For some reason, PRDs were advanced Navy-wide by six months in 1988.  My boat had received my orders in the middle of deployment, but had never told me because they were trying to get the orders cancelled or modified, apparently not wanting to have to replace the LELT and an EWS with short notice.  At least that's what I a junior yeoman and radioman confided to me while I was trying to figure out why I had gotten a Welcome Aboard Package from Navy Recruiting in the sacks of mail waiting for us on the pier.  I never got an official story since everyone was on standdown and had maybe one duty day on board before I left. In retrospect, I cannot believe that any other command would do something like that these days.)

Anyway, as unlikely as that scenario is, it is just to illustrate that there is always some uncertainty, so unless you are sure you want to be committed to the Navy, as opposed to just considering primarily the incentives for reenlistment.  If you are looking at long term (8 to 20 years) the advantage I see is getting rid of that two year extension and having the time count toward the bonus.
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2005, 06:29 by ex-SSN585 »

shayne

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #18 on: Feb 23, 2005, 06:26 »

I don't think getting a C school is an advantage for you.  In fact, I was looking at what I assume to be the current instruction the other day to answer someone else's question, and I didn't see any authorized C schools for ELT NECs.  I didn't even see the Advanced Aux package that used to be available for MMs. 

STAR C schools for nuclear trained personnel can be found here:
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/MILPERS/Articles/1510-020.PDF


Looking at the available C schools, It is my opinion, the Nuclear Planner is the best option out there.  I don't know how useful that would be for the Navy, maybe a Work Center Supervisor, LPO, or CPO could use it, but I think it would be good to have after your Navy Career.  Help you get into a Project Management type job.

ex-SSN585

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #19 on: Feb 23, 2005, 04:55 »
I can't say for sure, since I never went to Nuclear Planner school.  It might look good on a resume or count for college credit.  A related civilian job would be "Technical Writer" (although from what I've seen,  employers usually look for someone with a degree).

I was a non-Nuclear planner for 5 years, after being qualified a QA inspector for about 10 years previous and a QA supervisor for a couple of years.  I would guess that the Nuclear Planner school is more of the same, concentrating on the use of Q points and R points.  I had already written procedures as an LPO/WCS, so writing procedures as a primary job wasn't unfamiliar territory for me.  Repair facility procedures tend to be much more in-depth than procedures written on the boats.

Just for some background, the Nuclear Planner school is for planners in the nuclear repair departments of tenders or shore facilities.  Repair procedures are written by a separate division from the repair shops.  After the procedures are written they are reviewed by the repair shops and by the QA division.  Generally, the planners also order the parts required for repair jobs.

nadus9

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #20 on: Mar 01, 2005, 04:51 »
actually an idea im toying with right now(not star, but just a 5 yr reenlistment)....im frocked second,  i get paid 3 days after my 3 yr point and ill max out and prolly be in the gulf (westpac 2005- this is so gonna suck) so if i do this i could possibly get out of our next deployment, reguardless, i kinda wanna stay in cali and go to school and when i go back to illinois use the veterans grant to get my masters so not gettin shore duty wouldnt be that bad...im still having trouble with coming to terms with the idea of giving the navy 2 more years....lets face it, life in the fleet isnt that bad, but just the idea of selling my soul makes me want to disspel the cheap wine ive been drinking all night onto my keyboard...if any one has anyone has some further advice, it is very welcome......

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Re: Star reenlisment
« Reply #21 on: Mar 01, 2005, 11:01 »
Eons ago, only a STAR reenlistment cancelled your other 2 years obliserv. If you don't have a great CCC onboard, go see the squadron CCC! Don't make a stupid mistake by doing something no one else does and assuming it will be the same as every one else's.

(It took many months to cancel my re-enlistment that didn't quite fit the mold. I didn't receive a Bonus! CCC reverted to HT because he was so disgusted. I did get it cancelled and reenlisted with a bonus later (Tax-free in war zone!)
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