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Author Topic: A failed ontology: The Linear No-Threshold model of radiogenic cancer  (Read 4486 times)

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Online Marlin

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Interesting piece. But we all suspected.


http://www.neimagazine.com/features/featurea-failed-ontology-linear-no-threshold-model-of-radiogenic-cancer-5874271/#.WW7eSpQmpq4.linkedin

Thanx, good article, I picked up a new word for my lexicon:

Epistemology

Epistemology is a word first used by the Scottish philosopher James Frederick Ferrier to describe the branch of philosophy concerned with the theory of knowledge. It examines the nature of knowledge and how one can acquire it.

Offline RDTroja

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Hmmm... Without resurrecting dead threads, I still remember being ridiculed for espousing this belief a few years ago.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

                                  -Marty Feldman

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
                                  -Ronald Reagan

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

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Offline GLW

Hmmm... Without resurrecting dead threads, I still remember being ridiculed for espousing this belief a few years ago.

yeah well, fast forward the below video to 46:45,...

then patiently wait for it until 47:05,....

if any statement ever needed to be ridiculed,....


been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Bonds 25

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Everybody knows "natural" alphas are harmless.....it's those "man made" alphas that are deadly.
"But I Dont Wanna Be A Pirate" - Jerry Seinfeld

Offline SloGlo

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Everybody knows "natural" alphas are harmless.....it's those "man made" alphas that are deadly.
radium comes two mind...
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Bonds 25

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What's more toxic on the body, alpha radiation exposure or heavy metal poisoning from, let's say Pu-239?
"But I Dont Wanna Be A Pirate" - Jerry Seinfeld

Offline SloGlo

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What's more toxic on the body, alpha radiation exposure or heavy metal poisoning from, let's say Pu-239?
that wod bee dependant awn the dosages.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Bonds 25

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Which is more toxic first? Alpha exposure or heavy metal poisoning? The Radium girls, they suffered from radiation poisoning or heavy metal poisoning?
"But I Dont Wanna Be A Pirate" - Jerry Seinfeld

Online Marlin

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that wod bee dependant awn the dosages.

...meaning chemical makeup and solubility. I suspect a slug of uranium from an A-10 would be a lethal dose  :P and a radon mine would be good for you according to the brochure. Have we mentioned hormesis yet I suspect that is what RDTroja was referring to, we have had a number of discussions on that as it relates to LNT.

Online Marlin

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Which is more toxic first? Alpha exposure or heavy metal poisoning? The Radium girls, they suffered from radiation poisoning or heavy metal poisoning?

Radium is a bone seeker it was the radiation. Non-soluble uranium is more chemically toxic than radiological.  Po-210 was quickly lethal to Alexander Litvinenko delivering acute radiation sickness and that was delivered in his tea.

Offline GLW

it's all about the acronyms/initialisms,....

NORM - TENORM - SNM - GTCC - LLRW - HLW,...

et al,....

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

BetaAnt

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You cannot forget the 30 mm DU rounds fired at Iraqi tanks. Was that bone seeking heavy metal poisoning? The article addresses whole body gamma exposure. Don't get into the weeds. QFs will differ with particle energies. To further obfuscate, throw in various chemical molecules that can have a synergistic effect with particle energies and cell metabolism. We can measure a dose rate, estimate the dose, and theorize the overall hazard and subsequent damage. When it comes to chemical or toxin exposure, all bets and guesses are off. Chemicals are the culprit in most cancers. The damage is genetic and mostly untraceable. Throw in a time frame study and the statistics become a problem.
If group of individuals are exposed to a neurotoxin, drug, hazardous chemical or uniform radiation dose, each will exhibit varying degrees of symptomology. Studies are developed to statistically determine risk and hazard within a specific time frame. As an example, I am in Chicago. If I choose to travel the west side of Chicago (Austin and Garfield Park) at night, my chances of suffering lead poisoning (getting shot) increases dramatically after midnight. Daylight and early evening are relatively safe. That is an example of the threshold dose model. The LNT dose model would indicate a certain level of lead poisoning with any time spent in west Chicago.
It's statistical modeling.
Radiation hormesis would require extensive statistical analysis and modeling.

Online Marlin

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The article addresses whole body gamma exposure. Don't get into the weeds.

The article only mentions dose not radiation type.

Radiation hormesis would require extensive statistical analysis and modeling.


An Introduction to Radiation Hormesis

Conclusion

Our radiation protection policy is based on linear extrapolation from the dose-response data of high doses of ionizing radiation. According to the results of many worldwide studies, this assumption is not compatible with observed health effects of  low levels of radiation. Obviously LNT and current radiation protection regulations exaggerate the risk of low level ionizing radiation (in the range of 1-50 cGy) and cause radiophobia (Yalow RS 1990). It is concluded that according to new findings, the existence of radiation hormesis and adaptive response are not deniable and abandoning the LNT theory in low dose risk estimations will be a real nessecity in the near future.



http://www.angelfire.com/mo/radioadaptive/inthorm.html



HPS does not endorse LNT per se as it says there is little or no radiation effects below 50 mSv/Yr or 100mSv/lifetime, they do seem to stop short of endorsing Hormesis.


"I want to believe" Fox Mulder  8)
« Last Edit: Jul 25, 2017, 04:47 by Marlin »

Offline RDTroja

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Full endorsement won't happen until there is overwhelming evidence which isn't coming soon. Better to be conservative than correct.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

                                  -Marty Feldman

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
                                  -Ronald Reagan

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

                                  - Voltaire

Offline SloGlo

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Full endorsement won't happen until there is overwhelming evidence which isn't coming soon. Better to be conservative than correct.
oar we mite generate a scientific consensus of opinion..
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

 


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