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atomicarcheologist

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Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« on: May 08, 2018, 11:26 »

Although the 2018 Federal Tax Cuts for corporations are permanent and, at least PR-wise, to help increase wages, I have been hearing that Day and Zimmermann hasn't given any raises to the field employees. Is this true? 
How about Bartlett?


TVA

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2018, 07:26 »
Why would they?

TVA

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 01:37 »
Lol for a contractor?

Offline xobxnuke

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2018, 01:41 »
lol too easy

Offline hamsamich

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2018, 01:52 »
Trickle down economics works, right?

Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 01:52 »
   BossLady got a larger raise with the tax cut than any company raise she has gotten. That may change as the RCTs at Y-12 recently voted to go union. As for service companies passing along the rate cuts, they are on very thin profit margins in general and pay scales are set by each contract. It is very possible that the raise disappears in the next bid to compete for the contracts. Companies that produce a product have a different business model than staff augmentation. Job shoppers who choose not to wear the golden handcuffs of a utility or other brick and mortar facility are "At Will" employees and exchange company security for freedom and personal responsibility.


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TVA

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 03:37 »
Exactly. Completely negotiated with the buyer

TVA

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2018, 03:39 »
Dude deleted his post

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 09:10 »
Exactly. Completely negotiated with the buyer
From what I have read here, wages have been stagnate for over a decade.
Since contracts are in place, the companies are making 18% more than previously. Since their overhead shouldn't have increased more than what was built into their (awarded) bid, I can be relatively certain this extra 18% is profit.
To keep and attract the type of employees desired, a company usually offers better compensation than it's competitors. With windfall profit, it should be simple.
That brings me back to my original post on this thread.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 10:15 »
From what I have read here, wages have been stagnate for over a decade.
Since contracts are in place, the companies are making 18% more than previously. Since their overhead shouldn't have increased more than what was built into their (awarded) bid, I can be relatively certain this extra 18% is profit.
To keep and attract the type of employees desired, a company usually offers better compensation than it's competitors. With windfall profit, it should be simple.
That brings me back to my original post on this thread.

   Typically contractors do talk more about wage than pay package and contractors have been effectively declining on both counts for a long time. Contractors are laid off and rehired for each job and are typically locked into negotiated contracts. Brick and mortar employees may be able to count on pay raises while employed but I strongly suspect that job shoppers will only see an increase with new contracts and staffing which may appear in the bonuses paid or other compensation. YMMV

TVA

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 11:32 »
The point being DZ and others arent going to offer a wage raise. They negotiate with those who require their services. If DZ says hey we are going to hike or per hour 2 bucks an hour because....
The utility hires the company that didnt raise their rate. DZ isnt there for the individual they are there for DZ

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018, 12:17 »
   Typically contractors do talk more about wage than pay package and contractors have been effectively declining on both counts for a long time. Contractors are laid off and rehired for each job and are typically locked into negotiated contracts. Brick and mortar employees may be able to count on pay raises while employed but I strongly suspect that job shoppers will only see an increase with new contracts and staffing which may appear in the bonuses paid or other compensation. YMMV
Contractors are laid off and rehired for each job and are typically locked into negotiated contracts. Brick and mortar employees may be able to count on pay raises while employed but I strongly suspect that job shoppers will only see an increase with new contracts and staffing which may appear in the bonuses paid or other compensation. YMMV
I understand that NPP contracts are for a number of years, not a per project basis, which is my venue.

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2018, 12:21 »
The point being DZ and others arent going to offer a wage raise. They negotiate with those who require their services. If DZ says hey we are going to hike or per hour 2 bucks an hour because....
The utility hires the company that didnt raise their rate. DZ isnt there for the individual they are there for DZ
Existing contracts are in place for those BOP on the Wish List per company. Each company is in an additional 18% profit margin.
Perhaps those companies are too deep in the swamp.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2018, 01:48 »
Existing contracts are in place for those BOP on the Wish List per company. Each company is in an additional 18% profit margin.
Perhaps those companies are too deep in the swamp.

   An 18 percent increase on a slim margin is not much of an increase. I don't know what today's margin is but it has been just 6 percent at times with which they take a profit and pay home staff, facilities upkeep and rent/mortgage. There may be some capital costs that can be caught up on if the company also provides other services. I would not expect much if any increase in wage. I have known companies to bid these contracts for cash flow as opposed to profit because there is a lot of money flowing but not much profit which is brought in by other contracts (deliverables) that are not staff augmentation.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 01:50 by Marlin »

TVA

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2018, 02:31 »
Private contract with a private company. No swamp

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2018, 08:00 »
grate thread!
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2018, 08:18 »
   An 18 percent increase on a slim margin is not much of an increase. I don't know what today's margin is but it has been just 6 percent at times with which they take a profit and pay home staff, facilities upkeep and rent/mortgage. There may be some capital costs that can be caught up on if the company also provides other services. I would not expect much if any increase in wage. I have known companies to bid these contracts for cash flow as opposed to profit because there is a lot of money flowing but not much profit which is brought in by other contracts (deliverables) that are not staff augmentation.

6% is slim, butt it is net.
"Profit margin usually refers to the percentage of revenue remaining after all costs, depreciation, interest, taxes, and other expenses have been deducted. The formula is:

(Total Sales - Total Expenses)/Total Sales = Profit Margin

Note that preferred stock dividends are typically included in the calculation, but common stock dividends are not."
http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/businesses-corporations/profit-margin-5116

n an 18% tax break on a contract yielding 6% profit wood bee sizeable, as it wood bee 18% of the gross, including the 6% profit. sew, eye sea >24% profit awn currant contracts.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2018, 09:00 »
6% is slim, butt it is net.
"Profit margin usually refers to the percentage of revenue remaining after all costs, depreciation, interest, taxes, and other expenses have been deducted. The formula is:

(Total Sales - Total Expenses)/Total Sales = Profit Margin

Note that preferred stock dividends are typically included in the calculation, but common stock dividends are not."
http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/businesses-corporations/profit-margin-5116

n an 18% tax break on a contract yielding 6% profit wood bee sizeable, as it wood bee 18% of the gross, including the 6% profit. sew, eye sea >24% profit awn currant contracts.

I disagree and >24 percent seems very high, typical small business companies make much less and traditionally these service companies are below that average, I suspect there would be more competition in the business and the larger vendors would be back in that part of the service industry as Westinghouse and Combustion Engineering were at one time. Though with shorter and fewer outages that may be what is needed to survive.

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2018, 10:50 »
I disagree and >24 percent seems very high, typical small business companies make much less and traditionally these service companies are below that average, I suspect there would be more competition in the business and the larger vendors would be back in that part of the service industry as Westinghouse and Combustion Engineering were at one time. Though with shorter and fewer outages that may be what is needed to survive.

hoe kay. two git my >24%, aye used yore 6% + 18% via the federal  corporate tacks cut. butt, eye erred, it ain't 18%, witch aye got from this thread, butt 14% making my estimate >20%.
sew, lettuce due sum math. using a rounded number of my home plant pay rate wit d$z of $40/our, and assuming that d$z pays well (caws they all weighs say they dew), aisle estimate there billing of $100/hr. you're 6% profit equals $6 if it was based on the $100, witch it isn't as it is based on the net after costs.
now, they're is a 14% cut in federal tacks. d$z won't pay $35 inn federal tacks, butt $21. now, the billing  is the same $100 per our, so theirs an extra $14 going to the company in a net fashion, witch fits the description of profit.
 now, that 6% was based on net after costs, and the costs decreased by $14, sew that $6 has increased due too less costs, plus the 14% = >20% profit.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 10:53 by SloGlo »
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

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Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2018, 11:12 »
hoe kay. two git my >24%, aye used yore 6% + 18% via the federal  corporate tacks cut. butt, eye erred, it ain't 18%, witch aye got from this thread, butt 14% making my estimate >20%.
sew, lettuce due sum math. using a rounded number of my home plant pay rate wit d$z of $40/our, and assuming that d$z pays well (caws they all weighs say they dew), aisle estimate there billing of $100/hr. you're 6% profit equals $6 if it was based on the $100, witch it isn't as it is based on the net after costs.
now, they're is a 14% cut in federal tacks. d$z won't pay $35 inn federal tacks, butt $21. now, the billing  is the same $100 per our, so theirs an extra $14 going to the company in a net fashion, witch fits the description of profit.
 now, that 6% was based on net after costs, and the costs decreased by $14, sew that $6 has increased due too less costs, plus the 14% = >20% profit.

   Your posts normally take a bit to decipher (not complaining I do find them amusing) but mixing SloGloese and word math problems are a problem (pun intended). If they are bidding $100/hr for a $40/hr service business models have changed drastically that is a jewelers margin. I can't follow your reasoning maybe there is a SloGloese math as well. 8)  But at our age I think we can Stretch our RacCon math as far as we like.  :P


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Offline SloGlo

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2018, 11:43 »
back inna day, eye had a corporate manager explain two me that if won was able to make 40% of billing rate, that person wood be gitting paid well.

a billing rate must include awl costs two bee practical. costs mayinclude overtime, weather paid oar knot, unless a separate billing is contracted fore o.t.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 11:48 by SloGlo »
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Offline hamsamich

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2018, 12:46 »
I actually saw the bill SRS was getting 2010 thru 2012 and it was about 70%.  It was billed as an hourly rate with an extra 200 hours for OT allowed.  It was all hourly and not a hard annual contract.

Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2018, 08:58 »
I actually saw the bill SRS was getting 2010 thru 2012 and it was about 70%.  It was billed as an hourly rate with an extra 200 hours for OT allowed.  It was all hourly and not a hard annual contract.

Per diem, insurance, etc compensated or paid through the hourly? This will be a government service contract at SRS that requires the vendor to comply with a set of rules and is different from a commercial power plant. Each DOE site has a contract management group due to the complexity of government contracts. The site operators are prime contractors that hire subcontractors for specific functions.

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2018, 04:06 »
all I remember is i was shown a receipt/invoice that had my hourly rate on it for what I was billed.  I didn't have any insurance offfered to me thru the company.  it was about 70% after per diem was taken out.  the rate included per diem.  so I treated per diem as a pass thru and calculated my hourly rate minus the per diem.  It was about 30% higher than my hourly rate.  my company told me my travel home every month came out of a different pot of money...I didn't see the sheet on that part of it. 

Offline Marlin

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2018, 05:10 »
all I remember is i was shown a receipt/invoice that had my hourly rate on it for what I was billed.  I didn't have any insurance offfered to me thru the company.  it was about 70% after per diem was taken out.  the rate included per diem.  so I treated per diem as a pass thru and calculated my hourly rate minus the per diem.  It was about 30% higher than my hourly rate.  my company told me my travel home every month came out of a different pot of money...I didn't see the sheet on that part of it. 

Was it a short term contract supporting a project? Staff augmentation tends to be under the Service Contractors Act in DOE that clearly is not. To stay on topic contractors are paid by contract and "a" contract does not really represent the companies bottom line as they probably have a number of them and pay will likely follow new/renewed contracts.

YMMV  [2cents]

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2018, 10:58 »
all I remember is i was shown a receipt/invoice that had my hourly rate on it for what I was billed.  I didn't have any insurance offfered to me thru the company.  it was about 70% after per diem was taken out.  the rate included per diem.  so I treated per diem as a pass thru and calculated my hourly rate minus the per diem.  It was about 30% higher than my hourly rate.  my company told me my travel home every month came out of a different pot of money...I didn't see the sheet on that part of it. 
sew, yore put my rate was 40% of the billing.
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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2018, 12:11 »
It was just part of the ObamaBux normal 2-year contracts SRS got pre-2012.  They had so many RP techs out there it was crazy.  As usual I have no idea what SloGlo is talking about. After you took out the per diem it was about 70%.  About 4 of us sat around and calculated it...we were all getting about the same rate.  We just subtracted out the per diem and calculated what was left.  There was a statement about OT that was seperate from the PD/hourly rate...I worked so little OT I never focused on that part of it.  This is all while ago so I'm just giving you the gist.  Multiply what I was getting by 1.3 and that was about what the subcontract company was getting.

Offline GLW

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2018, 07:41 »
why do you guys care?!?!?!?!

this is the amongst the most mundane, assinine discussions that ever occur on these forums,...

you, me, we get what we agree to work for,...

what the contract company gets above and beyond that should never be your, mine or other's issue,...

if you're curious about an eye opener, set yourself up and go in as a 1099 and get yourself a huge pile of money for your time,...


and then spend the precious hours of your life being sure Uncle Sam and Aunty Arizona get their cut and they're happy with it (aka  - no audit this year),...


yeah, as long as I am content with what I agreed to perform with how much I agreed to be compensated,...


I could not give a rat's ass if they billed at 5X my compensation rate,...


as I do have personal knowledge of some of the books at some of the places at one time or another,...


why do you guys care?!?!?!?!?



been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline GLW

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2018, 07:48 »
BOT,....


after all typical increases in COL (health care hikes, inflation, etc.),...


I realized a net 2.7% bigger paycheck,...


so,....


compared to 2017,...


my SIRIUS XM is effectively free this year,...


plus I get about ten car payments for my better half's new car effectively free this year,...


good deal,....


for as long as it lasts,... :P ;) :) 8)

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline scotoma

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2018, 08:38 »
Employee business expenses are no longer deductible. Make sure that your per diem covers your expenses.

Offline GLW

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2018, 05:06 »
Employee business expenses are no longer deductible. Make sure that your per diem covers your expenses.

"Employee business expenses" is a broad term, and to state they (as in all of them, in all the various distinctions) are no longer deductible is simply not true,...

and to mix per diem into that statement, without the distinctions of temporary versus indefinite employment, only misleads the reader down the road of taxation perdition,...

Publication 529 and Form 2016 are a start,...

OR,...

as always recommended when things get complicated,....

get a good CPA to help you with your tax liabilities,....

and talk to that CPA and pay that CPA now,...

and get ahead of the bow wave now....

not in March of 2019,.... 8)

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2018, 07:33 »
why do you guys care?!?!?!?!

this is the amongst the most mundane, assinine discussions that ever occur on these forums,...

you, me, we get what we agree to work for,...

what the contract company gets above and beyond that should never be your, mine or other's issue,...

if you're curious about an eye opener, set yourself up and go in as a 1099 and get yourself a huge pile of money for your time,...


and then spend the precious hours of your life being sure Uncle Sam and Aunty Arizona get their cut and they're happy with it (aka  - no audit this year),...


yeah, as long as I am content with what I agreed to perform with how much I agreed to be compensated,...


I could no
t give a rat's ass if they billed at 5X my compensation rate,...


as I do have personal knowledge of some of the books at some of the places at one time or another,...


why do you guys care?!?!?!?!?



I didn't start this thread to discuss corporate profit. I started it to find out whether the companies were in line with the spirit of the tax cut.
Perhaps I should have inquired if any of the nuclear personnel vendors are giving raises tied to the tax break as major hi tech corporations have.

Offline GLW

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2018, 10:47 »
I didn't start this thread to discuss corporate profit. I started it to find out whether the companies were in line with the spirit of the tax cut.
Perhaps I should have inquired if any of the nuclear personnel vendors are giving raises tied to the tax break as major hi tech corporations have.

ahhhhh,...

well, all I can posit is this:

BZ's general observation on Internet forums/threads etal, By the 5th post in any thread it starts drifting off topic. By 12 to 15 it has nothing to do with the original topic and if it surives to 30 or so it magically gets back on topic. This applies almost everywhere.

Mike

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline GLW

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2018, 10:57 »
I didn't start this thread to discuss corporate profit. I started it to find out whether the companies were in line with the spirit of the tax cut.
Perhaps I should have inquired if any of the nuclear personnel vendors are giving raises tied to the tax break as major hi tech corporations have.

plus,...

in case you missed (it),...

I tried to help you out there,...

BOT,....


after all typical increases,.....


BOT is shorthand for "Back On Topic",...

Enjoy the Day!!!!!


 :P ;) :) 8)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 11:00 by GLW »

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline GLW

Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2018, 11:20 »
....Is this true? 

short answer - yes


How about Bartlett?


short answer - ditto

thread done,....

because:

I didn't start this thread to discuss corporate profit......

and:

....I started it to find out whether the companies were in line with the spirit of the tax cut....

apparently not,...

thread over and done,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

atomicarcheologist

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2018, 02:42 »


thread over and done,...

That's a shame, when  I had just posited


Perhaps I should have inquired if any of the nuclear personnel vendors are giving raises tied to the tax break as major hi tech corporations have.

Offline ejones73

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Re: Wage Raises Due To Tax Cuts
« Reply #36 on: Jun 27, 2018, 10:59 »
My experience working for a small consulting firm was that billing rates were 2-3x higher than the actual pay the worker received. The billing rate needs to include all overhead (office space, management staff salaries, health care, insurance coverages, social security and Medicare taxes, workers compensation insurance, etc.) plus some profit to float the company between contracts. Generally speaking, the smaller the company, the higher the overhead is as a percentage of total company cash flows.
Eric Jones
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20 years in nuclear consulting, now financial advising
www.bowkerjones.com

 


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