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Offline Skipperooni

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R&D
« on: May 26, 2018, 02:13 »
Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and why I am here. My name is Skipperooni. I am 29 years old. I have graduated with a BS (Bull$**t) in chemistry and physics. I am currently a graduate student and research assistant in physics at some crappy state university. I will be done with a master's degree in physics by May of next year.

Here are the reasons why I am interested in the NuPOC program:

(1) I am qualified. I had a high cumulative GPA for my bachelor's degree in two relevant curricula. My graduate GPA is not high, but it's good enough. I have no doubt that I can successfully complete the NuPOC program.

(2) The Navy showed a lot of interest in me. The recruiter drove around 40 miles to speak to me the day after I applied. I had tried to speak to an Army and Air Force recruiter, but they took days to reply to my emails. When they did respond, they sent me a few links and didn't express any interest in me.

(3) I want to serve my country. I had been searching for careers in research and development for defense contractors before applying to the Navy for the same reason. The NuPOC program might not be related to research and development, but at least it is somewhat related to science and engineering.

(4) I want to join for the experience. I've been in school for the last seven some odd years. A lot of what I've read about being a nuclear submarine officer sounds terrible but other things sound cool and exciting. I really want to escape this nightmare that school has become. I want to experience something different. Even though I will have to attend school after getting into the NuPOC program, at least I will be making money, which brings me to my next reason.

(5) I need money. Being in school for seven some odd years has transmogrified me into some kind of weird and socially awkward adult child who is less financially stable than a 15 year old kid. The salary offered by the Navy for nuclear submarine officers are competitive with careers in physics and science research and development, even at the master's level. There is not a lot of money in science, unless you pursue a PhD in something applicable, but I really don't want to spend another five years in school trying to do that. There are not a lot of jobs in science, either. I know several people who received PhDs in chemistry or physics to only become an assistant professor at a community college. Success is not guaranteed in the physical sciences, no matter what your level of education is.

(6) I have practically no family or friends. Currently, I speak with my immediate family (mother and father) about once every few months, and I see them about once a year. Everyone else, I hardly speak to or come into contact with. I have no girlfriend or close friends. So, being away from family or relationships is not a problem for me.

(7) I don't really know what I am doing with my life.

( 8) I want to advance my career in science and engineering. I currently work in a lab for like 60 hours a week for around ten grand a year. It's absolutely miserable, but that's what being a graduate student is like. I would still like to work in research and development for a defense contractor or the department of energy in the future. I noticed that they give precedence to veterans. This brings me to my question.

Do you think after serving for 5 years that I would be a better candidate for jobs in research and development? From what I hear, the negatives of being a nuclear submarine officer far outweigh the positives, and most people do not make it a longterm career. Therefore, if I am unable to transition to another career that I'm interested in, than I could be wasting my time in the NuPOC program, and at 29 years old, that could be detrimental.

Another thing, is it really that bad? I work in a laboratory for around 60 hours a week for around ten grand a year. (If you are wondering how that is possible, half of your work in the lab is for your thesis, and you don't get paid for that. So, 20 hours for pay, 40 hours for "thesis work." That's graduate school.) A lot of what I do is monotonous and boring, too. All last week, I injected stuff into a tube repetitively over and over again for like ten hours a day. Today's Saturday, and they want me to come in and do the same thing. At least I am above the surface of the water and have fresh air, I suppose.

Sorry, I started to ramble.

Thank you for listening.Modified for language
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:15 by Nuclear NASCAR »

Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2018, 02:45 »
It is really that bad unless you like that type of thing.  I would finish my masters and put in for jobs all over the country until you get one.  Then use the experience gained from that job to get one you like better.  The Navy is a great place to get experience/training.  You already have it, so unless you just really want to be at the mercy of whatever command you happen to get stationed at, be your own master.  That is the issue in the Navy.  It is probably never going to be any better than good, but there are plenty of places to go that really suck, and you aren't allowed to quit.  The people in charge of you are the people that stayed in for whatever reason while everyone else got out.  Some of them are good but most of them kinda suck. It's like going to Vegas and putting down 100,000 $ you don't have on a bet that pays out 2:1 odds but has a 20% chance of winning.  You already have what you need to get a decent job.  Don't bet 6 years of your life for something you already have some of.

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2018, 03:47 »
I am currently having trouble finding a decent job. They start chemists out at around 30k salary, usually as a technician, which I don't think is decent enough, considering the amount of money I spent on my bachelor's degree. Physicists start out at around 40k salary, which is okay, but the number of jobs in physics is very low. With a masters degree, I might be able to start at around 50 to 60k, but the number of jobs is still very low. I've had zero luck trying to get a job with defense contractors and national labs. I have a feeling that I'm probably heading in the direction of professional student, which will be maybe around 30k a year, if I'm lucky, for the next 4 or 5 years. This Nuclear Navy thing was the highest salary position that has ever considered me.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 04:08 by Skipperooni »

Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2018, 04:10 »
I would just bite the bullet and finish that masters.  But I guess it wouldn't hurt to see if the Navy would cut you a good deal as an officer.  But with a Masters I would think you would be more marketable.  If you want to do ANYTHING but finish that masters because you are hating school then maybe the Navy would be good for you.  Unless the Navy guarantees you something good I'd just finish that master's.  I came right out of the Navy in 95 while working at a sampling firm making 10 bucks an hour.  But while doing that I was looking for something better.  I bet you if you are a good worker with that masters you might start some where at 15 bucks an hour but you could move up quick, especially if you are willing to move elsewhere, which you would be doing in the Navy for sure.  Always have those feelers out and be looking for something better if you are getting paid crap.  15 bucks an hour is ok for starters as long as you are getting experience and making contacts.  Then you can settle down where you want to be eventually with a good job

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2018, 04:12 »
I'm almost done with the master's degree. Even if I end up joining the Navy, I would still wait until I finish the masters. I guess a better question would be whether the Navy is a good plan B, just incase I don't land a job after graduation, and do you think it is likely that I will be able to transition after 5 years, if I decided to join?


Another dilemma is that I'm really not sure what I want to do longterm. I like math and science, but working in a lab tends to be mind-numbing and excruciatingly boring, more times than it's not. The recruiter made this Navy thing out to be my golden ticket, but after visiting the forum, it seems as though it may not be such a good deal.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 04:18 by Skipperooni »

Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2018, 04:23 »
Yes that is correct.  He will tell you about the good parts mostly.  It can be good for people who know what they are getting into or use it as a springboard to a better life eventually, or you might get very lucky.  There are alot of bad people in the Navy and they have almost total control of your life.  The Navy could be great but it depends who is in charge.  If you have one bad apple in your chain of command your life could be hell.   And at least one Bad apple is very common even if you aren't in the military.  Not a bad plan B if you have nothing else.

Offline GLW

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Re: R&D
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 05:53 »
Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and why I am here............


the USN may be just what you need for the next number of years,....

wanna know why?!?!?!?!?

this:




been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2018, 06:11 »
LOL

I'll look into it further.


Thanks for the input.


I appreciate it.


« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 06:11 by Skipperooni »

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 06:22 »
Those numbers are about what you'll make as an O-1, so you're not going to make much more in the navy. The benefits might be a little better, but long term you have better earning potential starting of as a chemist for $30k and work your way up.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 08:45 »
You got some urinals to clean mayonnaise....

Offline scotoma

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Re: R&D
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 10:06 »
Chemistry technicians in Nuke plants start much higher than $30K/yr.($50K-$80K), and then get pay raises for the next 3-4 yrs + the annual raises that everyone gets. The work is as mind numbing as anything else. After you get some time, you may be able to get a teaching certification which would get you more money. I know instructors that get big bucks and have taken jobs all over the world. But if you want to put your life on hold for 5 years, go Navy. You'll meet a lot of talented people and it'll open doors for you that you don't even know that they exist. Good luck!

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 10:38 »
I've seen a lot of teaching jobs in the 35k range. High school teachers where I am make around 35k. In the next town over, they make around 45k, I think. I applied to be a science teacher in Dubai. I heard they start out at 80k. That would have been sweet.

As a submarine officer, don't you have vacation time, and isn't it more or less like a typical job between deployments?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 10:43 by Skipperooni »

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 11:06 »
Chemistry technicians in Nuke plants start much higher than $30K/yr.($50K-$80K), and then get pay raises for the next 3-4 yrs + the annual raises that everyone gets. The work is as mind numbing as anything else. After you get some time, you may be able to get a teaching certification which would get you more money. I know instructors that get big bucks and have taken jobs all over the world. But if you want to put your life on hold for 5 years, go Navy. You'll meet a lot of talented people and it'll open doors for you that you don't even know that they exist. Good luck!

He's not talking about a school teacher. He's talking about being a chem tech instructor for a company. With the degrees plus some experience, that's a good path to decent money.

Offline spekkio

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Re: R&D
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2018, 04:03 »
Firstly, I would like to introduce myself and why I am here. My name is Skipperooni. I am 29 years old. I have graduated with a BS (Bull$**t) in chemistry and physics. I am currently a graduate student and research assistant in physics at some crappy state university. I will be done with a master's degree in physics by May of next year.
Your salesmanship needs a lot of work, particularly when you're selling yourself and your accomplishments. You call your degree bullshit and your university 'crappy,' yet you want someone to hire you? I mean, I know career counselors at colleges aren't always the brightest bulbs in the box but you have to do better than that.


So, start with that and you may have some more job openings come your way.


Anyway, onto your career questions...


NUPOC means jack and shit to anyone inside of academia. I had a buddy learn that the hard way when he thought NUPOC was going to boost his resume enough to get into an ivy league grad school. Turns out they treat your service just like the Marine who did a 4 year enlisted tour as an 0311 - that is to say, they don't know and don't care to know the details between someone who has attended nuclear power school and manages a nuclear plant and someone who shoots rifles for a living or anything inbetween.


R&D at a university doesn't incur a lot of money and if you are interested in a better paycheck, you need to become tenured faculty at a university. You become tenured by getting research published, which earns the school government funding for more research. But you don't get paid well for any of that really until you are tenured faculty. Everyone has to pay their dues and that's your career pipeline in research.


You do have alternatives, one of which is to seek employment at pharmaceutical companies. My uncle does that and he makes quite a handsome salary.


If you want to go into the Navy then go for it, just understand that it's a diversion from your ultimate career path, not a progression toward it.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 04:10 by spekkio »

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 01:16 »
You didn’t read what I posted. I said I wanted to work for a defense contractor or for the department of energy, not for a shitty university. I also said that I want to get out of school, not go back to school. I don’t tell employers that my university sucks and that my degree is crap. I told this forum that, because it’s anynomous, and I can tell the truth. I’m not treating this post as a job interview.

The jobs I am applying to are at national labs, defense contractors or research centers outside of academia. So far, I’m not having any luck. I was wondering if becoming a veteran would make me more competetive at those kinds of places.

As far as I know, to work in pharmacueticals, you need a pharmacy degree, which would be about 5 more years of intense schooling and 2 years of residency. The chemists that work on nuke plants are more than likely chemical engineers and not chemists. Nuclear and chemical engineering are similar. However, they are different from chemistry. A chemist has zero education in reactors. Like I said in the OP, going to school until I’m 35 does not sound like a good plan to me.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 01:40 by Skipperooni »

Offline Sadawg04

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Re: R&D
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 02:16 »
Actually that is not true. I recently graduated with a two year degree in Nuclear Engineering Technology and was hired under Southern Nuclear Company. Chem techs are not chemical engineers. They are trained but they start from the bottom like im having to do. I also dont think chem takes make 30k a year. In a commercial Nuclear facility they make way more than 30k a year. I got hired as a nuke tech and im going to be making over 40k a year so there is no way a chem tech is taking 30k a year.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 06:05 by Sadawg04 »

Offline ComradeRed1308

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Re: R&D
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 07:19 »
While an O-1's salary is only 36k a year, you have to factor in BAH and BAS which will be at least an additional 15k untaxed income a year.   You get a a promotion  and time in service every 2 years which is a substantial increase in pay.  As an O-3 with over 4 years while living in Hawaii i was pulling in 100k after taxes.  That being said, I would not consider the financial aspect to be the major selling point for NUPOC unless you really want to make the Navy a career.  What it will do is set you up extremely well for a post Navy career, although more along a line of operations/management rather than engineering, research, or academia.  Although if you are trying to get in with defense contractors, anyone that works with the government will give preference to hiring veterans as they get government incentives to do so. 

As a submarine officer, yes you get 30 days of leave every year.  You will however be told that you can take it when you get to a shore duty after your at sea tour.  A typical JO sea tour is 3 years long with a 6 month deployment every 2 years, so you may go on one or two.  While not deployed, you will still go underway for various reasons and those underways usually last 2 or 3 weeks.  Unless you're in shipyard you'll likely spend about half of the time away from homeport (either deployed or underway).  In between underways you will likely be in 3 or 4 section duty which means you spend 24 straight hours on the boat every 3 or 4 days.  Towards the end of your tour you may get lucky and go 5 or 6 section if you have Department Heads that actually support the watchbill (hit or miss).  As you can see, a sea duty can be very stressful.  They try to balance that out by making shore duties (which last 2-3 years after your sea tour)  super easy.  Depending on the job you may make 6 figures working like 20-30 hours a week doing a really easy job (Not all are that cake though).  They last long enough to make you forget how crappy your sea tour was and convince you to sign a contract to go on another sea tour as a Dept Head.  After that you'll be like 11-12 years in going to another shore duty so they basically got you until 20 so you can collect retirement. 

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 07:50 »
Thank you,  ComardeRed. So, you get 30 days of leave after a 3 year long sea tour? Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you've written.

Chem techs don't make very much money. I've applied to some positions at universities and USA jobs, and they've all been around 30k.

Thank you everyone for your response.

Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 07:58 »
Nuclear Chemistry techs make from 60 to 110 thousand dollars a year without overtime.  I'm friends with 10 of them and I was one.  You would probably start at over 20 bucks an hour and quickly be past 30 and hour in a year or 2.  In the south the pay is on the low end depending on the plant.  Up north and out west you will top out near or over 50$ an hour.

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2018, 09:48 »
Thank you,  ComardeRed. So, you get 30 days of leave after a 3 year long sea tour? Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you've written.

Chem techs don't make very much money. I've applied to some positions at universities and USA jobs, and they've all been around 30k.

Thank you everyone for your response.
No, you earn 30 per year (2.5 days per month). You're allowed to carry over 30 days unless there are exceptional circumstances. Red wasn't clear on that part.

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2018, 11:47 »
I didn't know I could apply for a nuclear tech position with a degree in chemistry.

MMM, thanks for clearing that up.

Offline Sadawg04

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Re: R&D
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2018, 09:56 »
Of course you can. I know people with a business degree working at savannah river site. You can defiantly work in a nuclear power plant with a degree in chemistry. Chen techs in a Nuclear powerplant do make over 100 thousand a year.

Offline GLW

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Re: R&D
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2018, 10:13 »
...........You can defiantly work in a nuclear power plant with a degree in chemistry....

I'm thinking that defiant stuff would be at odds with slides #28 and #30 below:

https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.naecp.net/resource/resmgr/imported/Rail_Houghton_WorkEnvironment.pdf

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2018, 05:57 »
I'm surprised no one mentioned this during my years as a chemistry student. All anyone ever told me was to take the GED and go to grad school. (LOL) Or they'd give me the classic response, "You can do anything you want!" Top notch advice.

If my plan was to become a nuclear technician, then wouldnt't the NuPOC program be a good idea? I still like the idea of serving our country.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 05:58 by Skipperooni »

Offline Sadawg04

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Re: R&D
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2018, 09:48 »
If you want to serve your country then I would encourage you go to the navy. Honestly though if you know where you want to work then wait for a chem tech position to open up and apply to it. They will make you take the pre employment test to show that you can be trained. Once you pass and your interview comes around just sell yourself in the interview and you can have a great paying job. In other words you don't need the navy to get your career started.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 09:57 by Sadawg04 »

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2018, 10:33 »
Even after hearing about the cons of the Navy, it still sounds better than being a grad student at this piece of crap univerisity.

Offline GLW

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Re: R&D
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2018, 11:00 »
Even after hearing about the cons of the Navy,.....

there are no cons in the Navy,....

an informed decision includes understanding there is the worst deal scenario for a nuke,...

and everything other than that is a better deal,...

so, make your informed decision based on the worst deal scenario being acceptable,....

and things can only get better from there,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Marlin

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Re: R&D
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2018, 11:21 »
I guess I could say the grass is greener but:



   The Navy is a service organization and the "needs of the Navy" will always trump the individuals. College life is much more flexible for someone not sure where they are going. When I took my daughter to our first counseling session for college I was told to expect her to change her major, perhaps more than once. The Navy is not flexible but if service is what you want it is a good place to gain leadership skills and focus. Are you thinking 'one and out' or a career? I was surprised by my shipmates that chose to end it after the first hitch and those who chose to make it a career so YMMV. On the other hand in a commercial plant your entry level position need not be your ending point, transfer to other disciplines are possible. Getting a foot in the door would be the important goalpost to move up and to get a first hand look at where you can go. You probably would be a better fit for one of the DOE labs from what I have read in your posts but they tend to be degree happy so I suggest you finish your sh#$%y graduate degree first.

My  [2cents]

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2018, 11:31 »
I plan on finishing my sh#$%y degree. It is indeed sh#$%y, and it does mostly suck.  However, I'm almost done with it. All I have to do is pass the qualifying and oral exams, but they aren't offered until the end of this year and early next year. I don't have to take anymore classes, but I want to make my sh#$%y degree look a little less sh#$%y, and I have to register for 9 credits, or I lose my sh#$%y job as an RA.

What is the worst case scenario for a nuke? So far, all I can tell is that the hours tend to be long, the work tends to be monotonous and being stuck in a submarine tends to be unpleasant. I'm not sure what the worst case scenario would entail.Modified for language
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2018, 12:42 by Nuclear NASCAR »

Offline scotoma

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Re: R&D
« Reply #29 on: Jun 01, 2018, 07:33 »
Any degree is good. It's your attitude that is sh#$%y. If you continue with this attitude, then you will reap what you sow, and it won't be good. Be proud of your accomplishments and put forth a positive attitude and doors will open. There will be enough people in this world that will judge you harshly, many unfairly. Don't give them any ammunition.Modified for language
« Last Edit: Jun 03, 2018, 12:43 by Nuclear NASCAR »

Offline GLW

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Re: R&D
« Reply #30 on: Jun 01, 2018, 10:19 »
.....I'm not sure what the worst case scenario would entail.

you're going in as an officer,...

you should probably ask spekkio,...

politely,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #31 on: Jun 02, 2018, 09:23 »
I don't think I would have the same attitude if I had more respect for the university. I should have applied to a better university as a plan B. Instead, I moped around after not getting a few dozen jobs and lost a lot of motivation to do anything. That was a mistake. So, I ended up here. The bright side is that the classes are most likely not as demanding as they would be at other schools, and at least it's ABET accredited. Actually, the engineering department isn't bad here, from what I know and have heard. A NASA facility is close by, which is cool, but I wouldn't want to live here permanently. Maybe I just hate graduate school. Maybe this is what it's like everywhere, a bunch of 30 year old men living in poverty and going to school like they're still children. I digress.

In any case, I appreciate everyone's response, and I agree that I do need to adopt a more positive attitude no matter what my situation is. There is no sense in complaining about it. After all, I got myself in this situation. I really do need to start working harder and acting more like a professional.


Thanks.
« Last Edit: Jun 02, 2018, 09:40 by Skipperooni »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: R&D
« Reply #32 on: Jun 02, 2018, 09:40 »
sounds like yew knead too turn off the lites awn you're pity party.  finish whatcha started, pick a path n go.
« Last Edit: Jun 05, 2018, 12:03 by SloGlo »
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #33 on: Jun 02, 2018, 09:41 »
Indeed.

Offline Marlin

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Re: R&D
« Reply #34 on: Jun 02, 2018, 10:19 »
sounds like tee knead too turn off the lites awn you're pity party.

Indeed.



Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #35 on: Jun 05, 2018, 01:34 »
Personal responsibility

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #36 on: Jun 05, 2018, 07:59 »
I don't think I would have the same attitude if I had...

Until you stop looking at what you missed out on you're probably going to have the same attitude. The attitude will lead to more disappointments, as people will not likely want to hire you. You will then continue with the same attitude saying whatever school or job you do end up in is either crap or beneath you, leading to more problems.

Basically, you need to break your attitude cycle. First step: Stop referring to whatever school you went to and are going to as shitty.

Offline scotoma

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Re: R&D
« Reply #37 on: Jun 05, 2018, 09:44 »
Happiness is not having what you want, it is wanting what you have. So, want what you have, and convince others that it is good.

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Re: R&D
« Reply #38 on: Jun 11, 2018, 03:18 »
Thank you. You guys are right.

However, I don’t like or value shool, anymore, and I never really liked doing my research. It’s just a job for me. It’s not something I want to make a career out of, which makes me wonder why I am still doing it.

I am looking for a way out. I could probably get into a much better school next year, and maybe I will like it more, but I’ve no idea. I’m not really sure what specialty to go into. I always liked spectroscopy. I thought working for LANL to study nuclear fusion with spectrometric analysis sounded like the coolest job ever, but chances are pretty low that I will get a job like that. I applied to the internship, but got nowhere. I’ve applied to other jobs in R&D that sounded a lot more interesting than what I’m doing now, but I’ve been denied by all of them.

The Navy sounded like a cool way to get out of academia and do something different, and maybe come back to R&D if I wanted to, maybe with a better chance of getting into something that I like. Unfortunately, I’ll be 35 by the time I get out, and I’m assuming that isn’t a good age to be looking for entry level jobs. Damn.

It still sounds cool to be a naval officer. If they accept me, I am more than likely going to do it. It still sounds more like an opportunity to me than a scam or a crappy deal. It would be totally different from what I’m doing now. I dread becoming a lab tech after all this work and education and get stuck injecting stuff into a tube and plotting data in excel for 60 hours a week at 30k a year. That’s my ultimate nightmare, even though it is a step up from what I am currently doing.
« Last Edit: Jun 11, 2018, 03:35 by Skipperooni »

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #39 on: Jun 11, 2018, 08:24 »
Based on all your comments, you have a terrible attitude and tend toward defeatist behavior, so your chances of success as a nuke are really slim and your chances of becoming an officer are slimmer.

Offline SloGlo

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Re: R&D
« Reply #40 on: Jun 11, 2018, 08:53 »
.... I dread becoming a lab tech after all this work and education and get stuck injecting stuff into a tube and plotting data in excel for 60 hours a week at 30k a year.
nuke tex make a lot moor than $30k/60hrs/52weeks. A helluva lot moor. yew batter learn watt yore talking a bout bee four yew open that mouth.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

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Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #41 on: Jun 11, 2018, 09:51 »
everything starts to get redundant.  research that created the coolest things in the world was due to over and over again trail and error.  so how cool and exciting do you think operating an engineroom will be after a few months?  you might need to change your attitude.

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Re: R&D
« Reply #42 on: Jun 13, 2018, 01:24 »
A typical lab technician gets paid around 30k per year. Indeed. A nuclear technician gets paid a lot more than that. A typical post doctoral position is around 45k per year. A nuclear technician gets paid a lot more than that, too.

I was mostly doing quality control and assurance. There wasn't much research involved, though it was in a research lab. I suppose I could apply to a nuclear tech position, but everyone seems to be saying that it's a monotonous and boring job. It sounds a lot like what I'm doing now, except I'd be getting paid about eight times as much for it.
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2018, 01:32 by Skipperooni »

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #43 on: Jun 13, 2018, 05:27 »
You don't seem to have much life experience. Every job is monotonous (except maybe SPECOPS). While the specific details might change from day to day, overall it's the same stuff. It's your attitude that makes it suck for you. Quit your whining.


(Standing by for warning about being respectful...)

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Re: R&D
« Reply #44 on: Jun 13, 2018, 12:49 »
yew knead to learn what is out side of school.

"There is not a lot of money in science,"

aye think yew reely got to state what is a lot of money.

" There are not a lot of jobs in science, either."

witch contradicts s.t.e.m. educational statements re: employment.

"Success is not guaranteed in the physical sciences, no matter what your level of education is."

ain't know guarantees in life except death.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #45 on: Jun 13, 2018, 01:16 »
I would say that a salary of around 30k is not a lot of money. That's what I would be making as an entry level chemist. I almost got a job as a fuel chemist, which would have been 30k but with medical and dental insurance. An entry level physicist position can be around 50k, which I think is a good amount, but there really aren't a lot of physics positions available. From what I know, a grad in the physical sciences is better off if they know how to program or, by some other means, can get into an engineering field. The biological sciences are about the same as chemistry in terms of salary and job opportunities. Otherwise, we are probably a priority for sales positions and things like that, from what I've heard.


My job is boring, but that's not the only reason why I don't like it. It's the lack of job security and pay. It's not a real job. It's like a training position. So, the low salary and zero benefits are justified, because I'm not considered a professional. Not only that, but I don't find it rewarding or meaningful. The military attracted me, because it seemed more meaningful and rewarding.

I have been trying to get into other things, but it hasn’t been easy. I suppose I was also attracted to the “guaranteed job,” as the recruiters refered it to. I will have to make an informed decision for myself.
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2018, 02:13 by Skipperooni »

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Re: R&D
« Reply #46 on: Jun 13, 2018, 02:20 »
I suppose I was expecting affirmation from the forum with my application to the Navy. I met the opposite opinion with some conflict. Everyone else I spoke with encouraged me to do it, and I was starting to think that this was going to be my career for next five years. Now, I suppose I should think about it a little more.

Thank you for the advice.
« Last Edit: Jun 13, 2018, 02:21 by Skipperooni »

Offline RDTroja

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Re: R&D
« Reply #47 on: Jun 14, 2018, 06:06 »
Well, at least you have shown that you are potentially trainable.
"I won't eat anything that has intelligent life, but I'd gladly eat a network executive or a politician."

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Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #48 on: Jun 16, 2018, 11:30 »
I understand now that it’s not all what it’s made out to be, but I can’t think of a better way to serve the country. If I do want to serve the country, is there a better program than NuPOC? The pay is competitive and at least you are getting some science/engineering training, even though you most likely won’t be using a lot of it as an operator, from what I’ve been reading, and transitionin into R&D would probably be easier out of an applicable doctoral program, if you have a good advisor and attend a university in which you can develop networks in the industry that you want, than out of the Navy, but doctoral programs tend to suck and you have to sacrifice a lot of time and freedom either way. I might try to get into a decent PhD program. I've heard of ones that pay up to 45k while you're going to school. Mine is around 10, which is the worst it could possible be, so please forgive me for bitching about it.

In conclusion, I thought that the NuPOC program would give me a competitive edge when applying to defense contractors and national labs. I thought that it might be an alternate route to getting into a high tech job, instead of taking more education and low paying assistantships. It turns out that this is not true, but it still seems like a decent option if my goal is to serve the commander and chief Donald Trump or branch out into some kind of management or operations position.
« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2018, 12:17 by Skipperooni »

Offline hamsamich

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Re: R&D
« Reply #49 on: Jun 16, 2018, 01:58 »
It's good people here didn't blow sunshine up ur keester.  Now you can make an informed decision.  Sounds like you are taking in the different opinions as they were meant to be...helpful.  I think if you get that PHD and get some experience and make some contacts the world will probably open up for you, especially if you are willing to go anywhere.  There are plenty of guys who got their Navy Nuke and didn't do squat, and plenty who did.  I'm guessing your ceiling will be higher with the PhD.  It really is all up to you once you get your ticket stamped, whether it be PhD, Masters or Navy Nuke.

Offline Imaginos

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Re: R&D
« Reply #50 on: Jun 17, 2018, 01:05 »
I would say that a salary of around 30k is not a lot of money. That's what I would be making as an entry level chemist. I almost got a job as a fuel chemist, which would have been 30k but with medical and dental insurance. An entry level physicist position can be around 50k, which I think is a good amount, but there really aren't a lot of physics positions available.

With just the BS in chemistry/physics and no experience in commercial nuclear power, a certain nuke plant out west, based on recent hires, would start you in an entry level chemistry technician position at about $60K...for a 40 hour week.
"I'm not quiet; I just don't demand to be heard." ---George Harrison

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Re: R&D
« Reply #51 on: Jun 17, 2018, 02:31 »
A PhD may or may not be helpful. From what I hear, jobs are lot more competitive at the PhD level. I know a few PhD graduates who ended up teaching at community colleges. From what I've heard, and by the sound of it, it's a pretty crappy job. I wanted to try an get into industry with a masters, and then pursue a PhD afterward so that I would have a good job waiting for me and wouldn't have to struggle financially throughout it. A lot of R&D companies will pay you to get a PhD in exchange for a contract of like 4 or 5 years working for them. If I can't do that, at the very least, I should try to get into a better school for a PhD program. There's no way I am sticking around here for another five years. I'd rather join the Navy if it came down to that. Nuclear technician could be another option.
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2018, 02:32 by Skipperooni »

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Re: R&D
« Reply #52 on: Jul 15, 2018, 04:55 »
Sorry for the double post, but I have another question and I don't think I should make another thread. I could never really afford to see a doctor. So, if I wanted to see a doctor for any reason, I would go to the emergency room. Now, I realize that this could be a problem. I remember once I went to the emergency room for a panic attack. This was maybe five years ago ... I'm wondering if little things like this could disqualify me for not just the NuPOC program, but any officer program in the military.

Offline MMM

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Re: R&D
« Reply #53 on: Jul 15, 2018, 06:50 »
I wonder if anyone else has had questions about whether panic attacks would disqualify someone from NUPOC/military officer programs. If only I were interested in research I could probably look into it.  :P

Offline GLW

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Re: R&D
« Reply #54 on: Jul 20, 2018, 12:15 »
Sorry for the double post, but I have another question and I don't think I should make another thread. I could never really afford to see a doctor. So, if I wanted to see a doctor for any reason, I would go to the emergency room. Now, I realize that this could be a problem. I remember once I went to the emergency room for a panic attack. This was maybe five years ago ... I'm wondering if little things like this could disqualify me for not just the NuPOC program, but any officer program in the military.

really?!?!?!

the ACA has been in effect for 8 years,....

you should have been on your parents insurance until 2015,...

since 2015, you being in college, the vast majority of colleges offer heavily subsidized healthcare to students at rates progressive with ability to pay,...

AND, most importantly, under the ACA, having health insurance is obligatory under the law,...

and the ACA makes mental and behavioral health treatment one of 10 essential benefits required in new insurance policies,...

I'm just saying,...

been there, dun that,... the doormat to hell does not read "welcome", the doormat to hell reads "it's just business"

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #55 on: Aug 05, 2018, 05:19 »
Trump made it not mandatory, anymore, which I think is a good thing. I don't like being forced to pay for healthcare. My parents also did not put me on their insurance. They have a "do it yourself" attitude toward most things. I think I was able to use their healthcare until I turned 24. Honestly, I don't even know if my parents have healthcare, at the moment. My school also does not offer any healthcare to students. But, O well. I was younger and stupid. I thought that going to the emergency room was what you did to see a doctor.

The problem I'm having right now is that I can't get the hospitals to send my medical records in a timely manner. I've been trying to get this hospital to send them for about a month and half now. They don't even answer the phone. I have to call about a hundred times before I can speak to someone. I took a day off work so I could go over there. I signed the release forms, gave them my license and they told me it will take at least two weeks. A month later, after calling about 500 times, they told me that I never made the request. I had to fill out another request.


My application is on hold until they send the recruiter my medical records, but the people at this hospital are incompetent. I wonder whether they will ever get around to sending them. If this continues, I might have to take legal action, or something. It's got to be against some policy to withhold my medical records when I am requesting them. I'm not sure what to do. The recruiter is telling me that he needs my records. I am applying to jobs in the meantime, as a plan B.
« Last Edit: Aug 05, 2018, 05:32 by Skipperooni »

Offline SloGlo

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Re: R&D
« Reply #56 on: Aug 05, 2018, 07:09 »
gall lee! a plan bee. yins bin having a reed of employment manuals?
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline wilkinakkk

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Re: R&D
« Reply #57 on: Aug 18, 2018, 10:11 »

I think I'm probably as close to your career path as any one - BS in Chem, SWO-N (NUPOC after graduation), 5 & out to NAVSEA/DoD contractor.

You talk of doing R&D work for DoD.  I'm not sure what you have in mind.  I've worked for a shipyard, I work for one of the NAVSEA surface warfare centers, I've worked in acquistion for the last 15 years.  They do as little R&D as possible.  It costs money no one wants to spend.  If you want to go that route, apply now as a new PhD.  Navy experience isn't that great of an advantage for that field.  The shipbuilders are run by engineers and want engineers (degree, not operational).  Nuke school is nice, but they don't want to pay for it.  I took a 25% pay cut my first year out of the Navy, from LT pay because I don't have an engineering degree.  Beltway Bandits have, or make, more leeway for paying veterans for experience.  None of the people I work with who do actual testing have any shipboard experience.

If you still want to go the Navy -> contractor/testing route, consider going SWO instead of subs.  The Navy builds more ships than submarines.  If you go surface, if you have never been in a boat, find yourself one.  Seriously.  You will have no problem with power school/prototype.  If you have never been on the water in any form or fashion, that will be more challenging.  The Navy shipdriver program is being overhauled, so you will benefit from that.  I got the just prior to SWOS-in-a-Box training which stunk.  Growing up in sailboats and power boats helped a lot with relative motion and just driving a boat.

The other thing I'd recommend, which it sound like you're too late for, is 6-18 months working at McDonalds.  Seriously.  You need to learn how to work with people.  Probably my biggest advantage, besides wearing a skirt, was the 4-5 years I had working retail AT THE SAME PLACE, throughout college.  While I wasn't the brightest bulb on the tree, I knew how to work, show up on time, do stupid mind-numbing work, and deal with difficult people.

I followed the advice of my RO years before I met him: There are 2 ways to get ahead.  Be the smartest person in the room, or be willing to do the work no one else will.  As a result of years of scut work, I now am running a ship trial with a $14M budget.  The bonus is I get to make Sailors cry.

Nuke school is a small part of being an officer.  You will be a division officer, AKA people manager doing HR crap.  Sub or surface, you will have to deal with unmotivated people, any number of marital problems (e.g. the "is my husband/wife cheating with MM2?"), legal issues (first met a guy in my first division on the steps of the VABeach courthouse) and other random fun things.  The time I spent at JCPenny's explaining politely, but firmly, that no I was not giving a refund on merchandise we did not sell was a valuable as any time spent in a college lab.  Same thing for post Navy contracting work.  I don't the the HR crap, but I have been in several meetings that were just about knock-down, drag out brawls with DOT&E types.  Being able to mediate & soothe egos is a valuable skill.  As is being able to speak your mind without being a jerk.  I know many who topped out at LCDR because the wouldn't "bend to The Man" or kiss @ss.  Being polite is not sucking up, it's just being polite.

I would not get a lawyer involved in your medical record fight.  You shouldn't need to.  Think of this as your first test of dealing with bureaucrats.  If you can't get this done, expect your household goods to be shipped from Charleston to Groton via Dijbouti. :-)   Really.  You need to learn how to work bureaucratic drones.  You will go nowhere in the Navy, as a govvie or Beltway Bandit if you don't.

Keep a paper trail of who you've talked to.  Write down names, ask for supervisors.  Beg, plead, cajole or if worse comes to worse, threaten to call you local TV station.  What hospital wants to be called out on the 5 pm news for impeding some young patriot's dream of being a Navy officer?  Maintenance wasn't hard to get approved after the 3M chief thought it was a good plan to hit on me at liberty port.  Remember why that drink ended up in your shorts Chief?  ;-) You have to play the hand you're dealt.

Whatever reputation you have in the Navy will follow you if you go into the NAVSEA world, good or bad.  I'm interviewing a guy next week, who unless he's a total jack_ss has the job & we'll give him the moon, based on word of mouth reviews.  If he's half a jerk, he'll still get the job.  The Navy is not a large world & nukedom is like playing 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon.  It's not hard to find someone who knows you.  Keep working on your attitude.

Offline wilkinakkk

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Re: R&D
« Reply #58 on: Aug 18, 2018, 10:21 »
By the way, you need to readjust what you think you are worth as a hire with no experience.  It isn't much.  It isn't much because you really aren't bringing much to the table.  It takes most new grads 6-12 months before they are truly useful. As entry level anything, you are looking at between $30K to $50K.  New grads where I work, in a high cost of living area, make ~$45-$50K.  They know how to do textbook work, not real work.  That's life.  Pay doesn't go up until you have something to actually offer.

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #59 on: Aug 29, 2018, 04:18 »
Weird... I edited this post. I made it a lot shorter and made my response a lot better, but it didn't save ...

I'm not going to write all that again ... darn it.
« Last Edit: Sep 04, 2018, 06:11 by Skipperooni »

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #60 on: Sep 11, 2018, 07:31 »
I'm not sure why some people freak out when I say that a 30k salary is not very much. I told my family that, and they acted as though I was a spoiled brat who wouldn't accept a job unless it was 6 figures. I would still accept a job for 30k, if it was offered to me, but it's really not a good salary, even for someone just coming out of college with a few years of applicable work experience. I don't know anyone who goes to school without working on the side. I've accrued about four years of research experience, albeit on and off due to limited funding and course overloads, which is defined as taking over 18 credit hours. I've also worked minimum wage jobs, such as the graveyard shift at Walmart, Burger King, as a dishwasher, etc. I'm looking for something better. If I have to settle for something worse, so be it, but I have the right to bitch about it.
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2018, 07:46 by Skipperooni »

Offline Marlin

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Re: R&D
« Reply #61 on: Sep 11, 2018, 07:55 »
Weird... I edited this post. I made it a lot shorter and made my response a lot better, but it didn't save ...

I'm not going to write all that again ... darn it.

"Less is more, in prose as in architecture."

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Re: R&D
« Reply #62 on: Sep 12, 2018, 10:48 »
The computer ate my homework

Offline SloGlo

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Re: R&D
« Reply #63 on: Sep 12, 2018, 10:57 »
da dawg went pea awn it.
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #64 on: Sep 14, 2018, 11:08 »
👍

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Re: R&D
« Reply #65 on: Sep 17, 2018, 03:58 »
New grads where I work, in a high cost of living area, make ~$45-$50K.  They know how to do textbook work, not real work.

So very true. In about half the counties in the country $45k is above the median income level. $30k is well into the 40th percentile. Its always a balance between employment availability, individual skill level/experience, & geographical cost of living. Sadly, many leave college with a debt burden and wish to live in high COL areas. The decision making process leads to all kinds of lamentations.

D

Offline Skipperooni

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Re: R&D
« Reply #66 on: Sep 18, 2018, 03:52 »

45 to 50 is pretty good.


I became an RA and just found out that we get paid 30% less than TAs ...


That 15k was lavish.


I'm still trying to figure what I can do with a master's in physics 🤔.
I want to get into programming, machine learning and data science, but I am only just now learning the basics of Python.
I should have studied computer science.
I only came for the 15 stacks.
I stayed for the ten.


Maybe, 30k is alright. I’ve never actually made that much money before. I just saw that it’s how much receptionists where I live make,where the cost of living is dirt cheap, and comparing it to what engineers and computer science majors start making right out of college, it doesn’t seem like much. I applied to a 30k chem job last weekend, but even those seem to be competitive.
« Last Edit: Sep 18, 2018, 04:35 by Skipperooni »

 


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