Career Path > Navy Nuke
Starting mm a-school with Pregnant fiancé. Looking for advice
hamsamich:
good call..got caught up in a moment of reality....
spekkio:
--- Quote from: GLW on Jul 28, 2019, 02:12 ---it was not leadership, it was manning,....
building to a 600 ship Navy and going to sea constantly (1263 days underway on nuclear power in a 5 year sea tour over two different commands) to rattle sabers at the Soviets,...
if the Navy is more laid back and accommodating nowadays well then so much the better for sailors serving in a salad days Navy,...
--- End quote ---
The SORM now requires ISIC to be notified if the ship can't man a 4-section in-port watchbill. Submarines are manned enough to go 5 or 6-section in-port in the ER (recognizing that is infeasible because it takes a while for people to qualify and then others rotate). If they aren't actually 4-section, it's because the leadership is not properly prioritizing and managing their Sailors' qualifications.
I don't have data from the late 90s/early 00s, but if you're trying to convince me that the manning allocation ca. 2010-2019 is different than 1990-2000, I don't believe you.
--- Quote ---I am intrigued that the Navy looks upon sailors as "employees",...
--- End quote ---
You're missing the point. The point is that people need to be managed, and that includes any personal issues. Military, civilian...makes no difference.
--- Quote ---understanding it's the Navy that defines important,...
--- End quote ---
The CO ultimately decides what's important. He's the only one who can deny special liberty or leave. Quite frankly, I never had a Sailor get that far because every "I'm sending [person] home to take care of [personal issue] was just a 'very well' from me.
--- Quote ---and I believe that missing movement is still punishable under the UCMJ,...
there are consequences for "missing movement" in CIVLANT, but not punishment, not forfeiture of liberty to come and go,...
and the OP still needs to understand the seriousness of that bottom line in the USN,...
and a fiancee and a child may very well have to take a back seat to duty,...
it goes with the uniform,....
if you say it doesn't, then the Navy has changed,...
--- End quote ---
I take issue with how you describe the Navy as unique in that you can be punished for not showing up to work and that sometimes your job will have to take precedence over family. Last I checked, playing hookie with work in CIVLANT will get you a pink slip.
--- Quote from: GLW on Jul 28, 2019, 02:38 ---but the perspective and the USN experience between enlisted and officer is real,...
I mean, unless things have really changed I imagine Officers still sit in a wardroom and still have their meal served to them on the ship's service china,...
not quite the same as standing in line and eating off of pyrex,...
--- End quote ---
Appreciate the sleight. I'm not sure what dining culture has to do with this topic, but okay.
One thing you hit on is that we can't account for every asshole 1st class petty officer and chief petty officer who filters out a request to go take care of family issues. Best we can do is to continue to put out that's not the standard so that the Sailors feel empowered enough to speak up when they meet resistance. But again, my experience has been that 'resistance' is almost always self imposed.
--- Quote ---I cannot remember the last enlisted man who was sent to earn a master's degree as part of his service term to the nation,...
no matter how smart he or she was,....
but I know a few and know of many officers who did,....
--- End quote ---
Again, not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand, but if it makes you feel any better ...
1) I personally think it's a shame that the Navy doesn't have a program for enlisted Sailors to earn a bachelor's degree and stay enlisted.
2) NPS has residence master's programs for enlisted E-6 and above who have bachelor's degrees, although they are not well advertised.
--- Quote ---it's a different world for the two types of service, I'm pretty sure that carries over to the Officer compensation package, including the Fleet and Family support programs,....maybe I'm wrong,...
--- End quote ---
You are wrong on the Fleet and Family support programs. They are open to everyone regardless of rank.
hamsamich:
It can get you a pink slip....but not a big chicken dinner....and it takes ALOT to get that pink slip at most places. Our leading ELT was giving us day after duty at 1200 hours if all the work was done. The Mdiv chief found out and "told on us". So that stopped after a week. Would have loved to be part of the Navy you are talking about....never saw it that good.
GLW:
we're gettin' circular, but since you took the time,...
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 08:47 --- The SORM now requires ISIC to be notified if the ship can't man a 4-section in-port watchbill. Submarines are manned enough to go 5 or 6-section in-port in the ER (recognizing that is infeasible because it takes a while for people to qualify and then others rotate). If they aren't actually 4-section, it's because the leadership is not properly prioritizing and managing their Sailors' qualifications.
I don't have data from the late 90s/early 00s, but if you're trying to convince me that the manning allocation ca. 2010-2019 is different than 1990-2000, I don't believe you.
--- End quote ---
I was 1980 to 1988,...
manning was tight,...
it's why a lot of us did five year sea tours,...and more,...
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 08:47 ---
You're missing the point. The point is that people need to be managed, and that includes any personal issues. Military, civilian...makes no difference.
The CO ultimately decides what's important. He's the only one who can deny special liberty or leave. Quite frankly, I never had a Sailor get that far because every "I'm sending [person] home to take care of [personal issue] was just a 'very well' from me.
I take issue with how you describe the Navy as unique in that you can be punished for not showing up to work and that sometimes your job will have to take precedence over family. Last I checked, playing hookie with work in CIVLANT will get you a pink slip.
--- End quote ---
the point is in CIVLANT you cannot be confined to base or a ship for playing hookie with work,...
a pink slip is as bad as it can get,...
and pink slips come really quick and easy and painless,...
the Navy equivalent of a pink slip is only rarely quick and easy and painless (if ever),...
consequences are not the same as pain in this point - counterpoint,...
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 08:47 ---
Appreciate the sleight. I'm not sure what dining culture has to do with this topic, but okay.
--- End quote ---
it's the USN culture (inherited from the Royal Navy and other european models),...
those who live before the mast have a much different Navy experience than the officers,...
including the little "extras" that make the married officer's experience very different from the married enlisted's,...
just ask any zoomie,....
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 08:47 ---
One thing you hit on is that we can't account for every asshole 1st class petty officer and chief petty officer who filters out a request to go take care of family issues. Best we can do is to continue to put out that's not the standard so that the Sailors feel empowered enough to speak up when they meet resistance. But again, my experience has been that 'resistance' is almost always self imposed.
Again, not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand, but if it makes you feel any better ...
--- End quote ---
this is a trickier one as "resistance" is self-imposed because of "peer pressure",....
you see, if Sailor A requests to be left home for some personal issue and the wardroom lets him stay home then the "pressure" from everybody else (enlisted) who goes port and starboard or even 3 section is painful,....
we had a guy like that, and his wife was "buds" with the OMBUDSMAN and was even cozy with the XO's spouse,...
yep, and he was always putting in chits for schools, and other sundry needs, and we pretty much hated his ass,...
now you might say he was doing really well at taking of number one at the expense of a bunch of lunkheads who he was only going to know for maybe two years (at the most) in a twenty year career,...
until that day he radioed a log,...
and a certain MMC kinda knew he was doing it, and kinda didn't "coach" him on how that's an unacceptable habit, and pretty much set him up for mast, and reduction in rate, and loss of NEC, and loss of SS designator,...
and as a witness at his mast, I was observant at how not one enlisted person in his C of C had anything really positive to say, no one said anything really negative either, just nothing positive,....
and he was gone,....
you see, bunking before the mast, it's a different experience,...
the blueshirts don't hate it when the command notices a "problem" and the command steps in and imposes the scenario which causes the port and stbd yadda, yadda, yadda,...
but if the blueshirt initiates the "kinder, gentler" management approach, well, that's a different story,...
don't get me wrong, in scenarios of great duress even if the blueshirt does initiate the request and he gets turned down his buds will commiserate and protest they could have easily gone port and stbd for their shipmate,...
it's a tricky wicket to thread, those blueshirt sensibilities, I frankly understand why many careerists just give up and blurt out "We didn't issue you a family in your seabag!!!",....
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 08:47 ---
1) I personally think it's a shame that the Navy doesn't have a program for enlisted Sailors to earn a bachelor's degree and stay enlisted.
2) NPS has residence master's programs for enlisted E-6 and above who have bachelor's degrees, although they are not well advertised.
--- End quote ---
understand I don't begrudge the USN Officer paradigm, it's part of the deal, when submarines skip their keel off the top of a submerged mountain that nobody ever knew was there it still falls on the CO (at least), and ofttimes it falls really hard,...
no E-5 in the engine room will be called to courts-martial for that bit of bad luck and endure a 16 to 20 year career tossed aside like yesterday's TDU cans,...
but yeah, the education thing, those Masters Programs and all the War College benefits really put the lie to "If you can go officer, why wouldn't you?!?!?!?!",....
--- Quote from: spekkio on Jul 28, 2019, 08:47 ---
You are wrong on the Fleet and Family support programs. They are open to everyone regardless of rank.
--- End quote ---
yep well, sometimes I'm wrong, not often, but sometimes,....
scotoma:
Your most important task is to meet your Naval obligations slucessfully. Your most immediate task will to meet your family needs. Your fiancé/wife may say that she understands the demands of the Navy, but in her heart she may feel differently. You will have to be sensitive to her needs and still do your job effectively. It will require a lot of work and sacrifice.
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