Newbie Navy Nuc Program Questions (DEP)

[20 Years Gone]

Well, maybe it's been said before, but I'm sure when I initially asked questions, people took the time to answer them, though they were answered elsewhere onsite.

So,

1.  Unless your mother lives in proximity to Charleston, Norfolk, San Diego, Groton or Bremerton, (or Hawaii or Guam) you're going to be a distance from her.  Upside is, when you're in port, you do get those 30 days of leave to go visit her.  Not too many jobs in the civilian sector give you 30 days of leave when starting out.  While in schooling, your leave will be at specified times... Between schools, mostly.  If you mom has a crises, and you want to go help, and you are in the middle of NPS, there is a good chance that she'll have to deal with it on her own.  So far as staying in contact with her, surface is definitely better.  They now have e-mail for all, and if you're willing to buy a phone card for a buck a minute (Probably less nowadays) you can talk to her from almost anywhere in the world.  Sea time is up to the luck of the draw.  I did 2 deployments in 3 years on my first ship, and countless at-sea workup days.  Other guys from my NPS class went to a ship going into the yards, and never saw a day at sea in their 4 year tours.  Unless you get picked up staff for a proto-type tour, you wont be doing shore duty in a 6 year hitch.  And proto-type is arduous.  NPS/NFAS is much more like a time to get to know your family and do the whole dad/husband thing.  Proto-type less so. Those are your choices for shore duty.  If you do a full 5 year tour at sea, or maybe 4, you might be able to go recruiting, or go to a SIMA.  (Don't get dancing hula girls on your arms, or recruiting will not be an option).  I would have to opinion that the benefits of doing 6 as a navy nuke will make your mom proud, and certainly not waste her efforts on you.

2.    Well the first 2 years will probably tell.  Imagine you headed off to college for 2 years, and could come home and visit her from time to time.  Would the relationship last?  See answer 1, and substitute the word girlfriend for mom.

3.   Not in the nuke world.  At least, not in the surface nuke world.  Black, Korean, or gay...My experience was don't throw your personal agenda/racial views into other peoples face or space, do your job, and pull your share of the load, and they pretty much don't care what age/sex/religion/color you are.  But if you're a slacker/bagger, you could be a poster for the great american boy next door, and people will still rip you when the chance is there.  We had some supremacist types on my last ship.  Most never brought it to work.  One, however, wasn't to bright, and showed up on the news marching around with his arm in a hitler salute...   Not a wise career move.

4.  Navy nukes are mostly a great bunch of guys, who survive difficult times by whining a lot in creative ways, and making a joke about almost anything.  (Nothing is sacred)  When the work is accepted by them, they will be smart and innovative and dedicated.  If they think the job is just more BS work, they'll spend ten times more effort in avoiding the job then the effort it would have taken to do it in the first place.  They are patriotic, but overall dislike the navy while they are in, yet remember it fondly after they are out.  They hold most non-nukes in contempt, besides those they know personally.  If they didn't have a good work ethic going into the service, A school and NPS and Prototype, along with seas duty, gives them one.  You get the confidence and ability to match your intelligence, and that's a great combination.

   That's about all I have to say about that.

   Good luck with your decision.
 
   Bill

[js.park]

Thank you for your response and I am sorry if I came back sounding like a smart a$$. I just felt that my concerns are my own and even though similar questions are asked elsewhere and answered, that those situations are not the same as mine. Either it is arrogance or stupidity I wont say but I do appreciate all comments. Thanks again.

[spew]

i'm not sure where i stand here.
Please refrain from making defamatory comments.  i know i screwed up.   i'm scared for my future now.
I enlisted in March as a nuclear recruit for DEP.
i was working in june for a moving company in New York.
So i went to Ottowa Canada for a weekend, and was arrested at the border for possession of marijuana.  My friend had hidden the stash in the car and forgotten about it.  He didn't step up and i was charged as the owner of the car.
So the charges were dismissed.   This means i have no criminal record of the crime.
HOWEVER...  i went on another trip out of the country and when i came through customs the June incident came up.   
I explained this to my recruiter.   He told me i have nothing to worry about.   I breathed a sigh, but i'm still shaking in my civilian little booties.   Anyone know what might happen, what i might do?
should i do a background check on myself?
my 30 day drug and IFA test is in about 15 days, i am perfectly prepared for it, but the June incident has me scared.
thanks guys.

[BuddyThePug]

I'm pretty sure they will let you go to bootcamp when you pass your urine test, and denuke you in bootcamp when the background check gets started. Not going to court doesn't mean there isnt a record.

[nukestar select]

i second that. i saw it happen in boot camp.  the other option is that they won't find out until 'A' school and then you will be stuck doing janitorial work for two years, (no opportunity to take college courses) while you wait for your clearance.

[spew]

should i try to get it waivered before i get into boot?
or will it matter?

[navnukejkl]

Take it from someone who this happened to, get EVERY LITTLE THING taken care of before you go.  If you even make it to Charleston, you will be on T-Track which is career suicide.  I can't advance, take college classes or do anything related to the nuclear field. I am a Machinist's Mate/ Janitor.  Good luck.

[Rad Sponge]

You are still a civilian. You may be in DEP, but thats about as close to being in the military as having seen Hunt for Red October makes you a submariner.

Fix your stuff now! Get everything in a contract saying you can still be a nuke. If no contract, do not ship. Let me repeat that, DO NOT JOIN THE NAVY unless you are guarteed, in writing, and notarized, and legal legal that your background does not prevent you from being CLASSIFIED as a NUKE TRAINEE.

If it does not work out, so  sorry, get less stupid friends and chalk it up to experience, then go get a tech degree and become a nuke officer 5 years from now. It may be possible.

If you ship w/o a binding status, you are f-ing yourself, without lubricant, without drinks, without dancing, fllowers, a next day phone call, more flowers, and anything else that would make it nicer.

That's the truth.

Good Luck,

Former MM1(SS)/Nuke LELT

[joephys]

1.  If you mom lives near a base that has subs or carriers you can see her all the time if you are in port.  Other than that you have to take leave.  Subs need to be near the surface to have contact with the rest of the world.  On a carrier we had email all the time.  My LPO had a buddy that was an IC so he had a phone line with and San Diego area code set up in our shop.  A lot of people shared that phone line, but as long as a calling card was used, no one cared.  (If the ship got a phone bill though all sorts of shit would go down, so it is a risky thing to do.)

2.  The navy cares if you have a wife.  The navy does not care if you have a girlfriend.  If you are married, the navy will move your wife to be with you.  If there is an emergency they can send you back to your wife.  The navy will let you move off the ship to live with your wife.  If its your girlfriend, the navy will not care at all about her, or your relationship.

3.  The navy is about the most un-racist place I have ever been.

[Already Gone]

The last post seemed to recommend that you marry your girlfriend because the Navy looks more favorably on married couples than unmarried ones.  This is absolutely untrue.
All of the points are technically true.  They do allow married sailors to live with their wives... etc.  A wife does have legal standing and rights that a girlfriend does not have.  She can go to a Navy hospital and give birth for absolutely zero money (except she will have to pay for her meals at the BAS rate for the time she is admitted).  She can shop at the exchange, inherit your property.  yada yada yada.
But a Navy wife has absolutely no way of getting you home if she has a problem.  Unless she is dying or giving birth to your child (and there are no absolute guarantees there) they won't cut you loose to be at her side either.  If your wife has a serious problem that is not life-threatening, and your command can't spare you, you are likely to hear the old standby, "the Navy did not issue you a wife." 

My point is this:  the military unintentionally gives the impression that marriage is the better choice for everyone.  The command structure is considerably older than the average recruit.  They are ALL on their second or third marriage unless they have wives who are solid as a rock, understanding, independent, patriotic, and able to keep themselves busy.  Most of these folks are the exception to the rule.  They have a level of maturity that most people do not attain untill well into their thirties.  For every Chief or Lieutenant Commander who has managed to stay married, there are five who are divorced, ten more who got out before they got that far, and three who got divorced AND got out.  If you ask anyone who is married and been in for ten or more years, most of them will tell you that their current marriage is less than five years old.

My advice to you is this:  1. Do not marry until you have about one year of sea duty left.  2. If you are married, do not (no matter how much money they wave under your impoverished nose) reenlist unless your marriage has survived the entire year of sea duty AND she is willing to put up with more of the same.  3. Save lots of money (at least half a year's pay) before you get married.  4. Before you wave to your wife from a ship that is going to sea, make sure that you have a financial plan for the time you are gone, a dependable car for her to drive, an emergency fund in case she needs it and (most important) the temperament to be understanding if she ignores the plan, wrecks the car and spends the money.  5. Only marry a woman who will be understanding when YOU ignore the budget, wreck your car, and blow all your savings - because young men do these things.
If you are meant to be together for life, you will be still after five more years.  If you absolutely cannot live without each other, one of you cannot be in the navy - period.  When you are both mature enough, and unselfish enough to put up with the low pay, prolonged separation, long work hours, and moving every two to five years; then you are ready to get married.

[jarad2002]

I am a MMC/SS USN/RET.   The Navy is not racist at all, I am not sure where the rumors are from, but trust me, everyone, especially in the nuclear field is treated the same, 25/7 (if you know what I mean).  If there is even a hint of racism, then it is dealt with swiftly.  There is a considerable effort at providing equal opportunity training on a continuous basis.  If you join the Navy Nuclear Power Program, then do it for the right reasons and expect a lot of hard work, a lot of time away from family and friends.  Find yourself a mentor (ie SeaDad) and follow his lead and advise.  Choose a mentor carefully, talk to your division chief when deciding what your career path will be.   Go in the Nuke Program informed, and also have a good attitude so it will be reflected in your work and you won't regret it.  The advice of Beer Court cannot be stressed enough, it is all accurate. I just want to also add that relationships will change over time, and must constantly be worked at, regardless of the career path you select.  Good luck to you.

[joephys]

I didn't mean to suggest that you should go out and get married if you join the navy.  I was just trying to point out the technical aspects of being married vs. not being married.  (Although in my experience the navy does prefer married people because they are less likely to get out since they have to provide for their families.)

Don't take what I said as reasoning to get married.  Beer Court is right, there are a lot of dysfunctional relationships in the navy because people rush to get married.

[Already Gone]

Of course, I didn't mean that josephys was suggesting marriage.  The bare facts contained within his post could, however, be seen as persuasive evidence that marriage is better.
It is totally true that the Navy treats married people better.  They give free healthcare to spouses, but nopt girlfriends.  They give you more money in the form of housing allowances, and they give more freedom in the choice to live off-base - a choice not always available to single sailors even at their own expense.
All these things tend to make young sailors (like a young MM3 Bierkortte) to go off and get married.  They never told me how much stress the Navy would put on a new marriage between two young people.  Not that the young ones are the only ones vulnerable.  PUHLENNNTTTY of Chiefs and others at or near retirement were finding themselves in divorce court when the wife had finally decided that she had put up with enough.  When Congress passed the law giving ex-wives the right to half of a retired sailor's pension, lots of guys got out with 18 years in, rather than let her have anything.  Some say that they were stupid, but two years of civilian pay made up most of the loss of half of a pension.
Lots of drama and recriminations .. like any divorce.  Lots of guys realized too late that they had asked far too much from a young woman.   Lots of us realized far too late that the decision to marry was more from convenience than from a committment to each other.

On the back of the coin, there are many military marriages that do last.  Almost half of them, I would guess.  Those people have something going for them, no telling what it is, but they make it where others fail.  Without the ability to predict the future, all you can do is play the odds.  Your best chance of having a successful marriage in the military is to take the time to learn about each other and the unusual lifestyle of a military couple.  That way neither one of you is going to be shocked, surprised or dismayed enough to give up.  Telling her that it is going to be a hard life is not enough.  She's going to have to see it for herself before she can make an informed decision to endure it as your wife.

At your age, you can't stifle your ambitions and expect to be happy later.  If the Navy is the way you want to go, if you are being drawn toward that or any other career, you should follow your own dreams and hopefully your young lady will follow with you.  If you listen to all my warnings and decide to stay out of the Navy because you want to be with this woman, you will only grow to resent her for holding you back.  It IS totally possible for you tio have both.  You can be a Navy nuke and be happily married.  Maybe you can't do both at the same time, or maybe you can.  It all depends on your level of patience, maturity, and commitment.  That goes for both of you.  Just take your time, do it right, and do it for the right reasons ... not because the Navy gives you things for being married.
Good luck to you.

[js.park]

Wow, I mean Wow
Thanks for the responses guys. Thanks BeerCourt I really do mean that. I never really expected responses like those. Although I do find it sort of ironic because my orginal post was more about family and relationships and not marriage. But the insights and opionions posted here are extrememly informative and gives me a much broader perspective on my situation. I am still young and I know I still have plenty of time to look for a career and stuff. I do need to take my time with this decision and I really do appreciate everything you guys have said. As of now I am still leaning towards Nuke. Although I do have a degree in Recording Arts and Broadcasting. Maybe I will look into that again. I have no idea I am just babbling now. But thanks agian and I will keep you guys updated. Please continue to share opinions and experiences I always enjoy getting more knowledge.

Thanks everyone!

Joe

[Already Gone]

Did you talk to the officer recruiter?  Having a degree gives you that option too.  Look into AFRTS (Armed Forces Radio and Television Services) or any of the dozens of broadcasting or audio visual arts opportunities?  Did you know that large ships like Aircraft Carriers have their own television stations?    Most bases do too, especially the ones in other countries.  You could get stuck as a public information officer in some swamp like France, Greece or Italy.  Now, that would be a hardship.

[js.park]

Well I only have an AA in Recording Arts. So officer is not really going to happen. But the AFRTS definitely sounds interesting. That is something that I have never heard of. Is that a general service in the military or is that a rating of some sort? I will do some research but any additional info you can provide is always appreciated. Thanks

[Already Gone]

Try this link
http://www.afrts.osd.mil/

[chuckhallett]

I would like to weigh in on your career choices.  I'm on my third wife (already a mistake) so I'm not going to say anything on that subject other than "Rent, don't buy"

I went into the Naval Nuclear Propulsion Program three days after graduating from high school (North Phoenix '70) because I had farted around all buy my last year in school and blown any chance at scholarships.  My dad and I lived together and our family car was a Yamaha 90 scooter, so I wasn't going to get tuition out of Pops.

I had some exposure to the Radio/TV world as my dad worked as the staff photographer for KTVK and KPHO.  I spent a lot of time at the station and even interned one summer.  It was a lot of fun, but I could see it was probably not ever going to be a high paying career.

To shorten a long story, I joined the navy and went nuke.  It was a wake-up call for me academically, but I handled it and graduated in the top ten percent of my class.  I enjoyed the navy until I got married, and went on two nine-month deployments aboard the Big E (Tunaprise, aka CVAN-65 [yes it had an A in it back then]).

Now to the real point I'm trying to make, which is career.  I'm 53 years old now and I've spent all but about three years of my adult life working in nuclear power.  I did seven in the canoe club, go out and went to school for about a year and then did some other stuff, but was back in the commercial nuclear world in 1980 at a really exciting growth time.  It is about to be 1980 all over again with the passage of the energy bill, many utilities are making plans to build new nuclear plants.  Problem is the average worker at a nuclear plant is about 55 years old!  I've seen a guy here where I work pushing a walker down the turbine bay!!!  New blood is needed.  The reasons for the lack of new blood generally can be traced to the historical belief that the nuclear industry was dying a long, but sure death, and few young workers wanted to make a career in an industry which was both downsizing and suffocating. 

Then, a rebirth which is happening as I type.  Construction on these new plants will just be starting when you finish your six year hitch, and believe me they will be recruiting you to work at them.  The utilities actually sued each other in the late seventies and early sixites for setting up and recruiting one another's employees to staff their new plants.  That is good for you!

Their can and will be some long hours, but unlike the navy, you will get paid for every hour of OT you work; possibly time and one-half.  I'd look at the navy as an apprenticeship/school.  It can be a bitch; one poster alluded to how sailors hate while in and think fondly of it when out.  I'm not going to admit to looking fondly on it, but it does now at least look like it was worth the effort.

When I went in, at the height of Viet Nam, I had many people try to discourage me from enlisting.  I was at an outdoor rodeo recently, and the annoncer was praising our troops.  Then he asked that all members of the large audience who had served in our nations armed forces during a time of conflict to stand.  I was surprised at how few there were who stood.  I was proud to do so, and for the first time experienced a deep satisfaction that the sacrifices I and others had made to serve.  Even though the vast majority of my generation either turned their back on service or never thought of it as a duty, I was glad that I could stand and perhaps realize that I had given something back to this nation that most only take for granted.

Finally, I want to make the point which made me respond to your post in the first place, and it has to do with career satisfaction.  I work with a lot of above average people.  You have to be above average to work in the commercial nuclear power industry; I do not work with people who off their tree, abusers of drugs or drink and not likely to miss lots of work, or show up with a weapon.  For a time I tried working in the general population selling cars in between nuclear contracts and what a wake up call that was!  To me, being forced to work in retail, or any other "public" job would be akin to being sentenced to community service.  The world is full of really stupid people, and I don't have to deal with them where I work.  If that rings a bell with what might await you in your chosen field, then I'd add another check mark under the PRO column for the Navy/Nuclear field.

Sorry for the rambling.  Good luck to you in whatever you choose to do.

[Cannon]

Hi guys my name is cannon and i have been enlisted in the navy for 2 months now and just now found this site. I would really like to go to USNA but dont have the grades i figured enlisting in a good field was my next best bet. basically what I am saying is what process will i go through to go from bootcamp to USNA. I am well aware that entrance into USNA is not guarenteed and am excited about working as a nuke if i dont get in.

[visserjr]

There are varying different ways to get there. The best bet is to work hard, and communicate to your supervisors your long term goal, and what you can do to get there. Alos, don't kiss tail, but perform. Look for answers to problems vice bitching about them. Check out the NAVY.com website. It has alot of specifics about each officer program. Also speak with your chief. It is my experience there is nothing a great chief can't help you with. Bad thing is though for the Naval Academy specifically, there are a large number of applicants and few spots, so something like poor HS grades may hinder you there. But, keep your chin up you can get into an officer program with a 1.8 HS GPA. Best of Luck.

John

[navystang5o]

well for one the best way to get anywhere in the navy from my experience is to show up on time in a good looking uniform and work hard but to get picked up for USNA you need to do more maintain your gpa in both A school and Power school as high as possible which is harder then you might think and when you first get to A school your slpo will ask if any one wants to volunteer for class leader do that its a leadership position take every opportunity to shine that you can and shine make it known to your slpo that you want officer he/she will be your new best friend and a pain in your ass but do what your told when your told dont ask why keep a clean room and uniform and prove that your worth the time and money

[Bighouz107501]

Hey everyone, my name is Dennis. I joined in late august and still have questions that I would like answered.

1. Will scoring the highest on my electrical and math parts help them decide that ET will be best for me.

2. How rigorous are the classes truely. I spoke with many people and were given many example study sheets and it doesn't sem to be more extensive than my precalc, trig, and chemistry classes.

3. Is the civilian outlook really that great? I want the straigh truth haha.

Thank you all for your time, and any advice you can offer will help a ton.

[Rad Sponge]

Hey everyone, my name is Dennis. I joined in late august and still have questions that I would like answered.

1. Will scoring the highest on my electrical and math parts help them decide that ET will be best for me.

Wouldn't hurt

2. How rigorous are the classes truely. I spoke with many people and were given many example study sheets and it doesn't sem to be more extensive than my precalc, trig, and chemistry classes.

The basics are no different than civilian mathematical and science classes, but the applications, analysis, and rote memorization of applied principles make it completely different than anything you can conceive. I had a friend that had a B.S in Mathematics. He breezed through Math, Physics 1,2 (they are all equations). He finished the first 5 weeks with a 3.8 something. Then Week 6 hit. Good bye basic math and physics equations, hello memorizing pages of text and definitions and sketches and system diagrams and graphs.........Bye Bye 3.8. He graduated with around a 2.8 something.

Me? I finished the 5 weeks with a 2.9 ish and graduated w/ a 3.5

What does is all mean? It means that just because you are good at math etc, does not mean diddly.

3. Is the civilian outlook really that great? I want the straigh truth haha.

Yes. A nuke, with a honorable discharge, with supervisor credentials, and a degree will have absolutely no problems finding a god job somewhere in the US. A degree is not necessay, but if you get out of today's Navy without a degree, you wasted your time.

Thank you all for your time, and any advice you can offer will help a ton.

See every other post pertaining to your subject heading.

[JsonD13]

1) I have no clue, just score well, half of it I'm sure depends on the "needs of the Navy" (you'll learn what that means soon enough).

2) The courses aren't too bad if you have been exposed to that kind of thing before. The toughest part for me was doing it the "Navy way".  Other than that, think of covering the most important parts of Calc I in a month.

3)  From the colleges that I have talked to about advanced degrees (MS and higher) to the postings on here, the outlook is excellent.  Most people I know that get out start around 60K a year and they rapidly move up the scale.

Any more questions, just go ahead and ask.

[Bighouz107501]

thank you guys for the responses...do u kno how close to a BS you are after NPS? Also how do people become instructors at NPS or prototype?