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WXMel

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B.S. While in Navy
« on: Jan 11, 2005, 05:53 »
My boyfriend is in week 6 of boot camp up in Great Lakes.  I have browsed these forums a little bit and I noticed that some of you have mentioned being able to get a B.S. degree while serving your 6 years in the Navy.  I was wondering if someone could tell me a little more about it.  What did you have to do to get a B.S. degree while in the Navy?

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #1 on: Jan 11, 2005, 06:27 »
I'm assuming he's a nuke.  Nuclear Power School, Prototype, A School, and even Boot Camp are worth college credit.  When I finished my six years, I was MM1 (more college credits there too) nuke.  Including the two  CLEP general exams I took the day after NPS,  I had over 90 semester hours of credit without ever having entered a college class room.
On board Aircraft carriers, sailors can take courses the same as any person on land.  There are actual college instructors on board.  Combine that with a few more CLEP exams (cheap and easy to pass) and VOILA!  You  can be done like that.
All those credits can be tracked, and degrees awarded by several colleges.  The two that immediately come to mind are Thomas Edison State College (New Jersey) http://www.tesc.edu   and Excelsior College University of the State of New York https://www.excelsior.edu  - (not to be confused with SUNY or State University of New York which has actual campuses and classrooms)
« Last Edit: Jan 11, 2005, 06:29 by Beer Court »
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RCLCPO

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #2 on: Jan 11, 2005, 06:49 »
Once he gets to his first duty station, be it a ship, submarine or even one of the prototypes, he'll be introduced (as part of his check-in process) to the station's educational services folks.  There are many ways to obtain a degree, even during his first 6 year tour of duty.  Below are some websites that have more information, and I believe anyone can access them (not just those of us from the ".mil" world).

http://www.navyadvancement.com/navy-store/navy-college-education.php

https://www.navycollege.navy.mil/pipelines1.cfm

https://www.npdc.navy.mil/

https://www.navycollege.navy.mil/



Beta_effect

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #3 on: Jan 12, 2005, 01:17 »
I did it during prototype duty at West Milton, NY. I was staff at D1G. The New School University out of New York City offered a Human Resources Degree program for Navy staff at the prototypes and Airforce personnel out of Rome, NY. Classes were held in Saratoga and our student IDs allowed us to use library facilities at Skidmore college and at SUNY in Albany.

The New School gave ample credits to the Navy training programs and accepted CLEP credits. The CLEP battery alone was worth 30 credits. The core program was 42 credit hours and took about two and a half years to complete. Classes were tuesdays evenings, thursday evenings, and saturday mornings. The schedule accomodated rotating shift work and you took two classes per quarter.

By the time you were through you had 120 h and a B.S. in Human Resources Management. When I got out I went back to school and got a another B.S. in Nuclear Engineering and an M.S. in Nuclear Engineering. I recently passed the Nuclear professional engineer's exam and the HR degree at this point in my career has become huge due to increased management responsibilities. Because I had a previous degree, I did get a substantial number of transfer credits that gave me great flexibility in my undergarduate engineering cirriculum.

If he wnds up at the NY prototypes, I believe the New School program is still being offered, but it will take a lot of work on his part-prototype is one big cotton mill and it can be very difficult to complete any kind of college program if you have to work shift. I hope it works out! :-) I did have some PACE credits while taking classes onboard my sub prior to going to prototpe (trig and Pre-calc).

A closing note-my choice to get the degree at prototype did have a cost as I had to choose between the college or Engineering Watch Supervisor qualifications. I had passed the Chief's exam and was qualified my most senior watch, but the CO of the base decided that anyone who was not EWS was not going to be allowed to be a CPO. This was frustrating as I had completed my degree and was just about to graduate. I had already decided to leave the Navy to pursue the engineering degree, so the burn wasn't too bad, but it would have been nice to leave as an E-7. If I had to do it again, I still would have chosen the college!

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #4 on: Jan 12, 2005, 05:12 »
I did it during prototype duty at West Milton, NY. I was staff at D1G.

So, when were you at D1G? I was there from 1982-1984.

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #5 on: Jan 12, 2005, 09:11 »
It's amazing to me that they let you keep your clearance after attending the New School.  It was once considered the New York branch of the Kremlin.  (Joking)

Seriously, there are lots of ways to finish a degree in the six years of a first enlistment.  Funny though, I have accumulated almost 150 semester hours as of now, and still don't have the degree.  I suppose that I ought to go ahead and get the damn thing just to have something on the wall to show for all that work.
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Beta_effect

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #6 on: Jan 12, 2005, 10:31 »
The New School certainly has an interesting history, and the main campus is in Greenwich Village. Prior to the name change, they were the New School for Social Research.

The history can be found at the University website: http://www.newschool.edu

It has quite a good reputation. At the time, of course, that had little relevance to me as it was the New School or nothing.

I was on staff as an MO/ELT at D1G from Dec 1980 to May of 1984. The last couple of years I was in shift section 2. I did my sea service on the USS Lapon SSN 661-there is a big get together planned at Springfield, Missouri, July 4th weekend this year as the sail of the Lapon is being installed as a cold war memorial. More info can be found here for those close to the area:

http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/ozarkrunner

They also have a memorial for the Nathanael Greene SSBN 636.
« Last Edit: Jan 12, 2005, 10:33 by Beta_effect »

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #7 on: Jan 12, 2005, 12:05 »
Credit by exam is the cheapest way to go. Excelsior offers some exams, in addition to DANTES and CLEP. Some schools give 30 semester hours of credit for a qualifying score on a subject GRE. That's a year of college at one pop (and 16 credits are upper level!)
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tjm807

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #8 on: Jan 12, 2005, 04:08 »
I am a nuke ELT and just reached my 5th year in (One more to go till freedooooom!) anyway, I started my courses at TESC while I was on my ship still qualifying while married with a little one. Its definitely possible to finish. It will take some work. Only class left I am worried about is Calc II. Anyone know where good tutorial help is for Calc? The classes are easy and I barely had to put any effort into them and CLEPs arent difficult either. Im no booksmart branic nuke. Im the guy thats good with his hands and has common sense. So if a book only class was passable for me....Tell him to bust his arse and finish it as soon as he can. I definitely wouldnt recommend it until he is done with his schools though. They will burn him out enough without having to worry about assignments at home too.

TJ

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #9 on: Jan 12, 2005, 07:09 »
I was on staff as an MO/ELT at D1G from Dec 1980 to May of 1984. The last couple of years I was in shift section 2. I did my sea service on the USS Lapon SSN 661-there is a big get together planned at Springfield, Missouri, July 4th weekend this year as the sail of the Lapon is being installed as a cold war memorial. More info can be found here for those close to the area:

OK, now I gotta know who this is. I was a SPU ELT from class 8206, originally in section 4, did my cross-crew with section 1 & moved to section 1 when I got picked up. When my wife & I got married in 84 I moved to her section (2).  :)

ex-SSN585

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #10 on: Jan 14, 2005, 12:44 »
My opinion is that getting a B.S. in the first six years is the exception and not the rule.

That said, it depends on whether or not the degree is a true B.S. in a technical field.  An engineering or physical science degree is extremely unlikely because courses with laboratory work will be required (if the program is any good) these will be impossible to take while on active duty, unless accepted for one of the degree completion programs.

However, a degree in another field, such as business or liberal arts, is a possibility.  An A.A. or an A.S. through one of the "mail order" places like Thomas Edison or Regents of New York should be trivial.

It really depends on the personality and goals of your boyfriend.  There is always a balance between work and school and/or work and family.  Some treat the Navy as a 9 to 5 job, as much as possible, and this type of person would be able to compartmentalize his/her life and achieve that degree.  However, the workaholic type will never get that degree because there is ALWAYS something that needs to be done.

You have probably read many success stories.  I, personally, was classified as a senior in college when I joined the Navy (over 100 semester hours) and never finished, mainly because I wanted a technical degree.  I had the opportunity to take classes (I left the Navy with almost 250 semester hours, not counting credits for military experience) and no degree.  It depends on whether the degree is milestone or the "quality" and subject of concentration of the degree.  (There is no way you can convince me that a education gained mainly through correspondence courses and tests is the equivalent of one that requires classroom work.)  Now I have over 350 semester hours and I'm pretty close to a B.S.E.E. (CS minor).

Another factor is your boyfriend's first duty station.  If he becomes a prototype instructor, he probably has an excellent chance of making good progress.  (I was a student in Connecticut and didn't see much opportunity there, but that facility was small compared with others.)  If he is on a surface ship, I'd guess that chances are still good.  If he is on a submarine ported at a large Naval base, I'd guess that chances are not as good.  If he is on a submarine ported at a submarine base, I wouldn't rate the chances as high.

taterhead

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #11 on: Jan 14, 2005, 01:30 »
Six years is a challenge, but definitely doable in 8.

Beta_effect

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #12 on: Jan 14, 2005, 08:11 »
I renlisted under the STAR program and then had to extend another 8 months to get instructor duty at protoype-I also had to waive my C school. Just a recommendation to others looking at STAR-unless you are in for the long haul I'd just put that money in a nice CD and forget about it until you get out-I spent mine in fairly short order and sure could have used it at school-I did well enough anyway as i had VA and a half-time job as a reactor operator at the university department of nuclear engineering, but that extra $10k+ or so in the bank would have been quite helpful.

If you choose to live on campus, you can stretch the old college money out quite a bit. I stayed in older student housing and at 26 it was a blast as far as after hours...my first year I definitely was an ex-sailor unbound-I'll leave it at that 'cause you all know what I'm talking about! I wasn't much better during my first two summers out as I worked for NUMANCO at Indian Point Unit 2...Peekskill and NYC will never be the same...the life of a RAT was pretty good then-paid for my first two years tuition at school.

I kept the grades up and by the time I finished my 2nd year had an INPO scholarship for the remaining two years-stayed on a bit longer to finish up the masters degree...money only became tight when I got married and had a kid my last two years at the university, but I had moved into a full time job as Reactor Supervisor and was doing the graduate degree on the side...

matthewmiller01

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #13 on: Jan 14, 2005, 11:31 »
My opinion is that getting a B.S. in the first six years is the exception and not the rule.

That said, it depends on whether or not the degree is a true B.S. in a technical field.  An engineering or physical science degree is extremely unlikely because courses with laboratory work will be required (if the program is any good) these will be impossible to take while on active duty, unless accepted for one of the degree completion programs.

However, a degree in another field, such as business or liberal arts, is a possibility.  An A.A. or an A.S. through one of the "mail order" places like Thomas Edison or Regents of New York should be trivial.

It really depends on the personality and goals of your boyfriend.  There is always a balance between work and school and/or work and family.  Some treat the Navy as a 9 to 5 job, as much as possible, and this type of person would be able to compartmentalize his/her life and achieve that degree.  However, the workaholic type will never get that degree because there is ALWAYS something that needs to be done.

You have probably read many success stories.  I, personally, was classified as a senior in college when I joined the Navy (over 100 semester hours) and never finished, mainly because I wanted a technical degree.  I had the opportunity to take classes (I left the Navy with almost 250 semester hours, not counting credits for military experience) and no degree.  It depends on whether the degree is milestone or the "quality" and subject of concentration of the degree.  (There is no way you can convince me that a education gained mainly through correspondence courses and tests is the equivalent of one that requires classroom work.)  Now I have over 350 semester hours and I'm pretty close to a B.S.E.E. (CS minor).

Another factor is your boyfriend's first duty station.  If he becomes a prototype instructor, he probably has an excellent chance of making good progress.  (I was a student in Connecticut and didn't see much opportunity there, but that facility was small compared with others.)  If he is on a surface ship, I'd guess that chances are still good.  If he is on a submarine ported at a large Naval base, I'd guess that chances are not as good.  If he is on a submarine ported at a submarine base, I wouldn't rate the chances as high.


Here is my experience with the Navy and my BS.  Take it for what it is worth.  It is ABSOLUTELY acheivable-if you want it bad enough.  I finished prototype with class 9703.  I wanted ELT and then SPU, but got picked up MM SPU.  Anyway... I joined the Navy with approximately 1 semester of transferrable credits toward my degree.  At that time, they were offering 2 paths to a degree in Ballston Spa, NY via the Navy.  New School and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI).  When I got picked up SPU, I IMMEDIATELY started school.  I had 6 semester's worth of class to do and 5 semesters in which to complete it.  (I was a SPU and only had a 2 year tour vice a sea-returnee with a 3 year tour.)  In December of 1999, I got my BS in Nuclear Engineering from RPI (a consistent top 10 rated Engineering school and most definitely ABET accredited).  The opportunities to get a "real" degree (not to offend those with the New School degrees, but just as some places do not recognize TESC type degrees, some feel the same way about New School) that will definitely count ANYWHERE due to the fact that the school is reputable, nationally ranked, and ABET accredited.  Unfortunately, for your boyfriend, it will NOT be available unless he is picked up SPU and stays for a few years.  If he does get picked up, and if he works hard at it, he CAN finish it.  There were more and more people completing their degrees up there from both schools as I left.  I would estimate probably a 100-200 from RPI by now and more than that through New School.  Don't kid yourself, it WILL be difficult.  I took 19 credit hours one semester and 21 another.  I had to to finish before I transferred to sea duty.  These hours were all done while working rotating shiftwork as you will find out soon sucks for "together time".  The coursework is challenging, but any help he will need is available if he asks for it.  Oh yea, and it will cost you an arm and a leg.  RPI via the Navy agreement (if it hasn't changed from when I attended) costs you per the credit hour instead of tuition.  It will set you back probably more than 20,000 for the degree.  Be sure he uses all available benefits (MGIB, TA, College Fund, etc.)   I DO NOT regret paying for it, but it WILL NOT be cheap.  (It is still cheaper than just going to RPI as a regular student.)  The classes are at a satellite campus in Malta (I lived there... ~30 minutes from the site to the south) except for the labs.  He will have to drive to campus (~40 minutes) from Malta for those.  I have much more information for anyone interested, but this has been plenty to get you started.  Let me know if anyone wants more information.

tjm807

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #14 on: Jan 14, 2005, 12:03 »
My opinion is that getting a B.S. in the first six years is the exception and not the rule.

That said, it depends on whether or not the degree is a true B.S. in a technical field.  An engineering or physical science degree is extremely unlikely because courses with laboratory work will be required (if the program is any good) these will be impossible to take while on active duty, unless accepted for one of the degree completion programs.

However, a degree in another field, such as business or liberal arts, is a possibility.  An A.A. or an A.S. through one of the "mail order" places like Thomas Edison or Regents of New York should be trivial.


The Thomas Edison degree is an accredited University not a "mail order" college alone. I have friends that actually attend the University although they do have a BS in Applied Science & Technology for Nuclear Engineering Technology. So ex-SSN585 I wouldnt be discouraging people from completing that degree and having them think that it is "just a mail order degree".  It gives us credits for our schooling and lab work we have done on the ship. I know my experience as an ELT gives me much more lab time and real world experience than some kid taking a chem lab in college. Plenty of people on this site have ADVISED people TO finish their Thomas Edison degree because it WILL be useful to them as long as they have the two calc and two calc based physics classes on their transcript for SRO advancement. The link to the TESC nuke degree is http://www.tesc.edu/prospective/undergraduate/degree/bsast/bsast_nuclear_engineer_tech.pdf for you to read for yourselves and make your own informed decision.

TJ

FTN807
« Last Edit: Jan 14, 2005, 12:04 by tjm807 »

ex-SSN585

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #15 on: Jan 14, 2005, 02:07 »


The Thomas Edison degree is an accredited University not a "mail order" college alone. I have friends that actually attend the University although they do have a BS in Applied Science & Technology for Nuclear Engineering Technology. So ex-SSN585 I wouldnt be discouraging people from completing that degree and having them think that it is "just a mail order degree".  It gives us credits for our schooling and lab work we have done on the ship. I know my experience as an ELT gives me much more lab time and real world experience than some kid taking a chem lab in college. Plenty of people on this site have ADVISED people TO finish their Thomas Edison degree because it WILL be useful to them as long as they have the two calc and two calc based physics classes on their transcript for SRO advancement.

TJ

FTN807

I appreciate your comment.  I have actually gone through a TESC program (but not the BSAST) so I am more familiar with TESC than you might imagine from my comment.

However, two calculus classes and two calculus based physics courses are not nearly what is requried for a normal engineering degree.  The programs I know of require three semesters of each, normally taken in the freshmen and sophomore years.

I was a submarine ELT/LELT for nine years (not including prototype training, and not including years when I was not assigned as an ELT) and, in my opinion, it is not equivalent to the lab training required in an accredited engineering degree program.  Yes it was valuable real-world experience, but speaking as a former chemistry major, the actual procedures learned are not much more than I would expect from two semesters of lab.

I do not deny that a TESC/Regents of NY degree would be valuable, particularly for Navy advancement.  However, from the standpoint of the B.S. versus the B.A., particularly in a science or engineering field, the B.S. awarded by TESC/Regents cannot match the standards of a traditional four year university or college.

Admittedly, a college student might just be going through the motions of the lab assignments and not really learn anything, but the labs in a university or college are supposed to teach concepts and reinforce lecture material.

However, what I did say in my post was that getting an A.S. or A.A. through TESC or Regents should be trivial, not that the degrees themselves were trivial.  By this, I mean that I was able to get an A.S. by completing, I think, two correspondence courses (technical writing and discrete math), with the rest accomplished through previous college credit and a military service evaluation.  Taking two courses to complete a degree should be a simple and achievable task for anyone who has compled Navy Nuclear training.  That is what I mean by trivial.

     (EDIT:  Thinking about this more, technical writing and discrete math might have been for work toward the BSAST, and I probably needed no additional classes for the ASAST.  For the ASAST, I probably just completed the paperwork and sent in my fees.  That is surely trivial work to complete a degree.)

Again, I know what the TESC program is and I know what is claimed to be the equivalent of Navy Nuclear training, and compared with my other academic experiences (UC Berkeley and others) there is definitely a difference in the standards and level of education.  (For example, the discrete math course from TESC requires algebra whereas at the college I am currently attending, discrete math is calculus based.)

To end this post, I will say that my information should be taken with many grains of salt because it is dated.  In my Navy experience, all correspondence with colleges was done by mail or with on-site college representatives.  There were no CD-ROMs, DVDs, or internet to speed up the process or provide greater interaction.  I am not familiar with the educational opportunities available at the larger Naval bases or prototype installations.  I have no experience with civilian nuclear power, so have no concept of what is required for operator advancement.
« Last Edit: Jan 14, 2005, 02:23 by ex-SSN585 »

cave_dog42

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #16 on: Jan 14, 2005, 11:07 »
I have not yet gone to boot camp and i was wondering if anyone knows how hard it would be to get my B.S. with the 60 credit hours I have now plus the credits I can get from "A" school, power school and prototype. Any responses will be greatly appreciated

ex-SSN585

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #17 on: Jan 15, 2005, 01:21 »
I have not yet gone to boot camp and i was wondering if anyone knows how hard it would be to get my B.S. with the 60 credit hours I have now plus the credits I can get from "A" school, power school and prototype. Any responses will be greatly appreciated

1)  This depends on what college you choose to complete the degree.  If you go with a traditional college, 30 to 45 units are required in residence, which means you will not be able to use currespondence courses other than those given by your selected college.

2) You can get better confirmation on this from someone else.  I would expect that your credits equivalents from military training will be in the 30 to 36 credit range.  If I can find my evaluations, I will update this with details (credits given by TESC and by a California State University).

3) Based on other posts in this thread, you should see that if this is your goal, you have added incentive to do your best in Nuclear Power School and prototype in order to get a staff instructor position, particularly at the New York site.  These used to be assigned by your class/rate rank and evaluations.

Personally, I did not choose this route.  I assumed that with approximately 100 units coming into the Navy, I would have no problem getting a degree.  I declined a staff instructor position to get an assignment on a submarine.  Career planning with your goals in mind is a must.  You never know what is going to happen with your assignments.  I elected consecutive sea tours and declined my STAR "C" school with the hope that I would be able to apply for a degree completion program or other assignment favorable to completing my education.  While I saw on deployment, PRDs (projected rotation dates for duty assignments) had been  changed Navywide and my detailer assigned me to recruiting duty.  I found out about it when we returned from deployment and discovered my orders were to report to Recruiter training the following Monday.  (I subsequently discovered that the ship had received my orders a month or more prior, and had neglected to inform me because they were trying to get the orders cancelled.  There wasn't much time to get information because the rest of the crew was on standdown - a period of reduced activity that many ships are allowed after a deployment.)  Because of this shore duty, my future commands refused to process my applications for any degree completion programs because they said I was ineligible due to the sea-shore rotation.

Enough of personal stories.  The reason I brought it up is to illustrate that, no matter how much career planning you do, the needs of the Navy may supercede your plans, and so you must take advantage of any opportunity as it comes available to you.  I firmly believe that I had the right to apply for a degree completion program, although I may have needed a waiver, but it was a command decision not to process my request.  This is to illustrate that although some (probably most) commands will process special requests, there is no guarantee that a particular command will endorse your request (required for the request to leave the command).

Again, the above stories are only to caution you that there are scenarios, however unlikely they might seem, that might impede you from achieving your goal (and can be avoided by making good career decisions).

4)  If, for whatever reason (needs of the Navy, etc.) you do not get that staff pickup prototype instructor assignment, there are many opportunities at sea.  I will not discuss these because I do not have current information except to say that, unless you are stationed at a base with a good college representation (in other words, I am saying that in my time, there were few classes available on small bases), I would expect you will be taking correspondence course specific to your degree.  The classes I have seen available on base on on ship are usually general education courses and, I assume, since you already have 60 credits, you have already fulfilled these.

5)  Following a sea tour (I seem to remember that outstanding individuals could go to prototype after a three year sea tour rather than the usual five ... perhaps this is a STAR enlistment thing and someone else can answer this better than me) you can request prototype duty (preferably at New York), but I would recommend looking into the degree completion programs.  Since you already have your 60 college credits, plus the military experience and nuke school credits, plus whatever credits you earned while at sea, you don't have to look at a program leading to a commission (not that it might not be your eventual goal, but I'm saying you have more options).  There is (or used to be) a program allowing you to complete your associate's degree (i.e., a two year program that is compatible with a sea-shore rotation), but since you have already accumulated credits, it is well within reason that you could complete the B.S. in that time.

6)  I would research various colleges and stick with one program.  The easiest was to to this is with TESC (Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey) or the Regents of New York, which act as credit banks.  I say this is easiest because generally they accept any college class.  It is more tricky with traditional colleges because they are less likely to transfer credits.  This is more a problem with your major classes than with general education requirements.  For example, say I am an Electrical Engineering student at San Francisco State University.  If I go down the road to San Jose State University (i.e., another school in the same system, just a different campus), their program is set up differently and no matter how much I insist that a certain combination of classes at one college is equivalent to another combination at the other college, the colleges will only transfer credit on a class by class basis.  Then if I go up the road to UC Berkeley, they might accept certain classes not allowed by San Jose State U, but, on the other hand, accept certain other classes.  Note that these schools are all state run within a 30 mile radius.

Another problem to watch for is that sometimes schools have their own unique graduation requirements.  For example, you might go to college X thinking that you have fulfilled your general education requirements, only to find that of all schools in the state, the one you have chosen has an upper division general education sequence.

7)  Disclaimer:  Yes, I was a Navy recruiter and this is similar to the way I might have answered such a question.  However, I am a 20 year vet with almost five years out, which is to say that this information must be regarded as dated and must be verified.  In my time, you had to go to the yeoman's office and photocopy the information on a particular program, but I'm sure it is easier to search on the internet or on CD for the same information.  These are general indications of what is available.  I consider the anecdotal circumstances described to be out of the ordinary and not what would happen to the typical sailor, but are extremes of what could happen if you do not actively manage your career with specific goals.  (No matter how much I knew about educational opportunites from being a recruiter, I could not get them to work for me.  Hypocritical of me to descibe the opportunities? Maybe, but it was more management of my sea-shore rotation and unfortunate atypical events that took me out of the windows of opportunity rather than the opportunites not being there.)

8 )  Finally, I have not really answered your question by telling you how hard it will be.  Most likely it will be a challenge.  As mentioned in another post, you will have to decide on a balance of duty and fulfilling personal goals.  For some people, the concept of duty is overriding.  (Never, never make the assumption that being completely dedicated will allow the opportunity to achieve your goals "when the time comes".  You don't get credit for being a good guy.  The time will never come.  If the degree is your goal, you must make that a priority and consciously set aside time for this.)  That said, be aware that there is one time, I believe, your duty should override your goals and that is achieving your watchstation qualifications.  The faster you qualify, the easier everyone's job is, and in the long run, the more time and consideration you'll get to fulfilling your own goals.  Additionally, warfare qualifications are important, more from a command perspective, and I would consider them of equal or lesser weight than giving time to your degree goal.  Many people would probably disagree with this statement.  Personally, I'd make a distinction between SS quals and SW quals (of which I have both) with your SS quals being much more important from a practical and historical perspective, but that's another topic.

I've probably said too much, so I'll leave it at that, unless you have specific questions from me.
« Last Edit: Jan 15, 2005, 01:22 by ex-SSN585 »

ex-SSN585

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #18 on: Jan 16, 2005, 09:25 »

Plenty of people on this site have ADVISED people TO finish their Thomas Edison degree because it WILL be useful to them as long as they have the two calc and two calc based physics classes on their transcript for SRO advancement.

Regarding this comment, I agree that the Thomas Edison agree is the best route for most navy nuclear personnel (by this I mean those who have not been fortunate to be stationed at a facility with access to programs such as RPI or who have not been accepted for a degree completion program) because TESC operates as a credit bank.  Traditional colleges/universities have a residency requirement, which usually requires the completion of the last 30 or 45 units and all upper division major courses at their campus.  A credit bank accepts credits from any accredited program (perhaps I should say most instead of all) and has less restrictive or no residency requirement.

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #19 on: Jan 17, 2005, 01:39 »
I still think www.excelsior.edu is the best choice. (Excellsior previously was Regents and before that Regents of the University of the State of NY.)

I would recommend getting the cheap BS in Nuclear Reactor Technology from Excelsior or TESC, then get a Master's after you get out of the Navy. If you can't afford the Master's, you wouldn't have been able to afford a conventional BS. If you can afford it, a Master's from University of TN in Nuclear Engineering will be impressive enough that no one will care where you got your BS!
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ex-SSN585

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #20 on: Jan 17, 2005, 02:52 »
Thanks for those suggestions.  I didn't mean to recommend Thomas Edison State College exclusively, rather any program with a credit bank.

No wonder I hadn't heard anyone mention the Regents program lately!  That was the one usually recommended by the base Educational Specialist at Subase San Diego.

RCLCPO

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #21 on: Jan 18, 2005, 12:41 »
The current ACE recommended credits for the ET rating can be found here:

https://www.navycollege.navy.mil/roadmaps/et_nuc.html

along with the other ratings at the source site.  Granted, these are RECOMMENDED credits.  The individual school will take whatever credits they will take, just as if you were transferring credits from one school to another.  Is it possible to get credit for everything?  Yes.  Is it possible to credit for none of it?  Also, yes.  It all depends on what school you want to transfer the credits into, what degree program you're pursuing, and, ultimately, what the school will accept.

I would recommend going to the local Navy Campus office and finding out what's available locally.  For me, that was Southern Illinois University, while at Naval Nuclear Power Training Command in Orlando, Florida.

WXMel

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #22 on: Jan 23, 2005, 01:39 »
Hey everyone!

I started this thread.  Thanks for all of the replies; my boyfriend graduates boot camp this coming Friday (I'm REALLY excited about getting to go to graduation and all of that stuff).  I will be sure to pass all of this information onto him.  His rate is EM (and yes he is a Nuke as well).  What kind of credits can he get from EM "A" school in some of these programs that have been mentioned?  Also, I don't understand some of these military abbreviations you guys have been using.  Could someone help clarify some of them, please?  Thank you!!!  :)

-Melissa

ex-SSN585

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #23 on: Jan 23, 2005, 04:48 »
What kind of credits can he get from EM "A" school in some of these programs that have been mentioned?  Also, I don't understand some of these military abbreviations you guys have been using.  Could someone help clarify some of them, please?  Thank you!!!  :)

-Melissa

ACE - American Council on Education
provides recommended college credits for Navy programs and experience

BSAST - Bachelor of Science in Applied Science and Technology
specialization of a BS degree awarded by Thomas Edison State College

STAR - Selective Training and Reenlistment
generally, first time nuclear trained personnel reenlist using this program which, in addition to the reenlistment bonus, provides for an additional class "C" school training (specialized training within the person's rate)

DANTES - Defense Activity for Non-Traditional Education Support
basically, a compendium of all the ways that military personnel can get educational experiences
includes a catalog with all correspondence courses offered by participating colleges and universities (all educational institutions that have submitted course lists)
administers free testing: CLEP (College Level Examination Program), DSST (DANTES Subject Standardized Test, ECE (Excelsior College Exams), SAT. LAST, ACT, GRE, GMAT, and more

D1G
one of the nuclear reactor prototype plants used for training

MO
mechanical operator (the MM rating)
EO
electrical operator (the EM rating)
RO
reactor operator (the ET rating)
ELT
derived from the MM rating.  This subject has its own thread.

SPU - staff pick-up
an individual who has volunteered and been selected for instructor duty at a nuclear plant prototype after having just graduated from the nuclear power training program

(Please specify what other abbreviations or acronyms confuse you.)

The ACE recommendation for the EM rating is 71 units.  Your husband might expect up to 71 units to be accepted by a degree granting institution  (i.e., the ACE does not grant degrees).
The actual credit is dependent on factors such as your husband's rank as well as the schools he has attended.  Additionally, it depends on the amount of credit a degree granting institution is willing to transfer into their program.

Typically, your husband will be granted 6 units for military experience.
Additionally, for nuclear power school, he can get up to 26 units.
Training as an electrician will probably give him up to 39 units.

More details and personal experiences are included in the "Son is a new Navy nuke" thread:
http://www.nukeworker.com/forum/index.php/topic,3821.25.html
including what I personally received from two colleges (and providing some factors that influenced why I did or did not receive the recommended credit).

The Excelsior program claims to award the full ACE recommendation.

A possible credit breakdown for the EM rating is

AC circuits - 2
Basic electronics - 2
Basic electronis laboratory - 3
DC circuits - 2
Electrical systems troubleshooting and maintenance - 6
Electromechanical technology - 3
Electronics technology - 3
Industrial safety - 2
Introduction to Marine engineering - 3
Blueprint reading - 1

(I know I said EMs are awarded up to 39 units, but I don't have access to the ACE catalog.)


shayne

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Re: B.S. while in Navy
« Reply #24 on: Jan 23, 2005, 01:12 »
There are some good articles out of the June 2004 Platts Power Magazine on earning college degrees online.  The four articles are posted under the Professional Development section.

https://online.platts.com/PPS/P=m&e=1087407141154.-4440142993265801783/

Here is the table of Power Magazine Top 100 Power Industry Education Institutions

http://www.platts.com/Magazines/POWER/2004/june/VirtualEdTableWEB.pdf


I did the Newschool University Degree program in Ballston Spa Prototype during my staff tour there (1998-2001) and recieved 90 credits for the Nuclear Program Training/Experience as an EM1.


Shayne




« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2005, 01:16 by Shayne »

 


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