BRAC 2005 Prototype Closure [Merged]

[tota1pkg]

i just heard that one of the prototype reactors is getting shut down and they will be sending most of the people to new york.

is this at all true?

[Handgimp]

i just heard that one of the prototype reactors is getting shut down and they will be sending most of the people to new york.

is this at all true?

I don't remember the total distribution offhand, but in my class (0406) 7 EMs had to switch from NY to SC, and 7 ETs had to switch from SC to NY. Don't know about the MMs.

[CharlieRock]

Not true.  For the next several years at least both NPTUs will be up and running at full capacity.  It is sometimes necessary to shift the student load around if a plant is going to have a long maintenance shutdown.

[oldtimer]

They sent me to NY in 1965

[Chelios]

This is all top secret...well maybe not top secret, but confidential. Anyhow, you have to go to the local bars if you really want to know the straight skinny. Our politicians in NY are committed to keep the prototype running. They can't handle the full load of students, so some will go to fleet prototypes. Longl live 8G!

[ETNuclearSailor]

Is it confidential whenever a plant goes into an extended maintenance period?

[dave99]

Back in 73-74 they had two prototypes running (S3G & D1G) and  MARF in testing. They were just building S8G. It was a Great place to learn and have fun! I hope they never close for the sake of future navy nukes.. 

[ODiesel]

As said in a previous post it is necessary to shutdown a plant for a period of time(usually a month) in order to complete maintenance which cannot be done while steaming. Its hard to replace a bearing when a machine is spinning at 3000rpm!!!

Each student will experiance a maintenance shutdown of one form or another while at prototype. Its hard to get checkouts during a shutdown, so my advice to all would be to stay far ahead of the curve so the shutdown won't affect you that much.

Every few years(Not sure exactly), or as required, an extended shutdown occurs, making it necessary to send more students to other prototypes. This type of shutdown involves the boat being towed to a shipyard(Norfolk for example) or shipyard workers coming to the boat to perform extensive maintenance which could not be completed in a normal shutdown. Since we are not steaming, students arent standing watch, therefore, students can't qualify on the plant.

If anyone has any questions, post them. I'm happy to help.


EM2 O'D
NPTU Charleston

[taterhead]

At this point it's all speculation, but there are lots of folks out there getting intel on which bases are most likely to get the ax come next spring/summer.

Snipped from the article I just read:

Saratoga Springs Naval Support Unit, New York (includes Ballston Spa, Scotia) - This small, inland base was overlooked in previous base closure rounds.  Nuclear power training can be consolidated in Charleston since the number of nuclear powered subs has been cut, while the regional recruiting office can move to any Navy base along the New England coast.  A Los Angeles class submarine scheduled for early decommissioning may be added to Charleston to provide a third reactor for training.

[halflifer]

Do they have prototypes in the Charleston area? Is George's still just outside the gate at W Milton?

[Already Gone]

In my time, it was called the Scuttlebutt.  We used to stop in after afternoon shifts, and have "cartoon kegger's" on Saturday mornings after midnight shifts.  Nothing like beer to make the Smurfs seem to be actually funny.

[DecommMan]

Lots of funding going into decommissioning and env activities at various naval reactor sites - in fact it ranges from about $50-80 M USD going back to about 1996 or so through this FY.  This is for work at Bettis, Knolls, INL, Windsor and Kesselring sites.  Far and away above just dismantling some of the old protypes, but in the case of Windsor site I believe its to demolish like some 26 or more structures.

[halflifer]

In my time, it was called the Scuttlebutt.  We used to stop in after afternoon shifts, and have "cartoon kegger's" on Saturday mornings after midnight shifts.  Nothing like beer to make the Smurfs seem to be actually funny.

we used to do the 'cartoon keggers' too, but in those days (mid '70s) it was Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner.
whatever the name, it probably ought to be preserved as a 'National Nuclear Historical Landmark'

[CharlieRock]

An important item to consider is that the Ballston Spa site (KSO) is actually DOE (NR) property - not the Navy's.  The NPTU there is on-site but the site is run and owned by NR (through KAPL), so NPTU acts more like a tenant command.  This is in contrast to Chaleston where the Navy owns the whole thing and Bettis provides training support.  BRAC could close Scotia but can't truly close Ballston Spa (though I guess they could eliminate family housing).  NR really has a hard spot with BRAC after they were promised that NTC Orlando would not be eliminated (only scaled back) and then they were caught slightly unawares when they had to move NPS.

[ODiesel]

Do they have prototypes in the Charleston area?

Yes, there are 2 S5W submarines at NPTU (Nuclear Power Training Unit) Charleston, the MTS-635 (formerly USS Sam Raburn SSBN-635) and MTS-626 (formerly USS Daniel Webster SSBN-626).

Click below for an overhead view of the site. The 626 is on the left. http://www.ssbn635.org/pictures/ssbn635_charleston_ariel1.jpg

[taterhead]

I played that golf course many times, and take my advice, watch out for the gators around the waterline or laying in the fairway.

[johnigma]

I'm a Staff Pickup at NPTU Charleston and this is the very first I've heard of moving a new sub here.

Not that that would be a bad thing...  These boats have seen much MUCH better days.

[HydroDave63]

so, if we are in a War on Terror worth stop-loss orders and keeping National Guardsmen for a year or more at a time, why close ANY more base? 

[taterhead]

so, if we are in a War on Terror worth stop-loss orders and keeping National Guardsmen for a year or more at a time, why close ANY more base? 

That, my friend, is a question for W.

His administration is pushing the base closings.

Since the Iraq War pricetag is somewhere above 151 billion, maybe they are looking to recoup some money.

In the case of the Navy, I can see why they are closing some of those bases.  hy keep Pascagoula open for 3 aging cruisers and a couple of destroyers?  On the other hand, they closed Barber's Point NAS here in Hawaii back in 1995, but are now considering reopening it to support moving a carrier to Pearl.   What a waste.

[HydroDave63]

In the case of the Navy, I can see why they are closing some of those bases.  hy keep Pascagoula open for 3 aging cruisers and a couple of destroyers?  On the other hand, they closed Barber's Point NAS here in Hawaii back in 1995, but are now considering reopening it to support moving a carrier to Pearl.   What a waste.

Because keeping all of your fleet in 2 or 3 huge bases and close together isn't a bright idea....check out the USS Arizona memorial sometime. 

[taterhead]

Because keeping all of your fleet in 2 or 3 huge bases and close together isn't a bright idea....check out the USS Arizona memorial sometime. 

70% of the East Coast fleet is at NOB.

I would say we are already there.

I go to the Arizona Memorial at least three times per year.

[Roll Tide]

70% of the East Coast fleet is at NOB.

I would say we are already there.

That is one reason closing the Navy's third-largest base (Charleston prior to BRAC) was ridiculous. That and the fact that the next homeport was in Yankee-land!

[DecommMan]

All anyone needs to do is to look at the budgets for env restoration and decommissioning activities at Bettis, Knoll, and all the other DOE-NR sites and you will see that there is 'massive funding' going into these sites. 

Also whether we want to face it or not the DOE Mound, Rocky Flats, Savannah River and Hanford sites were all focussed on totally diff goals back about 12 years ago shortly after the Cold war ended - look at where they have ended up and how quickly they arrived there.  Fernald is nearly done, Mound is nearly done and RF is nearly done.  In some cases DoD takes a little longer but in my opinion BRAC will have an impact again.

[nixdf79tr]

So if this place does go.  Then are the staff gonna stay for the decom and get out OR are they gonna be moving to the charleston base

[DecommMan]

Thats a political hot potato - it takes less to decommissionin than to operate - thats a given unless its a jobs program and thats a politically charged issue !!! 

Just look at the DOE - Hanford, SRS and Rocky Flats sites to get a feel for how those sites were handled. 

[shayne]

I don't believe that NY was overlooked in the last rounds.  Remember that KAPL had part of the design for the Seawolf AFR core that also became the focus of the New CVX project.  I do believe Naval Reactors choose the AFR core to power the next generation Carrier.  Kapl is operating that core now at S8G. 

To close the base there, the Navy would have to continue to do reasearch for the Naval Reactors Program.  Naval Reactors is running out of reasearch facilities.  To have NY stop student training would require more facilities to be added to the SC prototype.

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

Story posted on Sunday, Feb 20
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=2&u=/ap/base_closings

[DecommMan]

It appears that Bettis is decommissioning many of its old facilities - anyone know who is doing that work - I have heard both Afftrex (?) and Duratek is doing D&D work there.

[nevins_03]

just figured i'd chime in here. im at the ballston spa site right now and there are no plans to stop training students any time in the near future. at one point in time, the naval support unit was being considered for closure, but now they are adding a commisary and a larger uniform shop. remember, the navy just uses the site for training (the sites original purpose)...we dont own it, so we cant close it. the only navy 'command' that could be considered for closure in ballston spa is the NSU, but like i said, that isnt happening either.

[DecommMan]

Whats up at Bettis in the decommissioning area ?? 

I read lots of dollars going into that at Bettis in the authroized Congressional budgets posted on line.

[nevins_03]

hmm...wish i had more info on the charleston site. we here in ny have caught wind of the proposed addition of the third sub mentioned earlier, but i havent heard about any decom at bettis.

[shayne]

Keep in mind that because the Navy is spending money on the facilities doesn't mean it will not be shutdown.  The Navy spent millions in 1992 and 1993 upgrading the Nuclear Power School barracks, building new high rise buildings, a new galley, new conventional ET 'A' school, and remodeling 1 or the 2 RTC Galleys when it was decided to close down RTC and NTC Orlando.  The Navy was also spending lots of money on landscaping to make it nice to convince congress not to shut it down.

[java]

Currently stationed at NPTU Ballston Spa...

Maybe I can shed some light on this. We do believe that NSU Saratoga could be on the closure list... But all they really do there anymore is administrative work. Navy Housing (if you can call it that anymore) has been sold to civilian contractors and is no longer even inside the gate at the NSU. But, navy personnel do get priority when applying. I have been told that NPTU will remain open, the only thing we will really loose is some administrative support, and a Mini-Nex... Which is kindof a waste to be there anyways. I don't know anyone who uses it.

[shayne]

Well keep in mind that the none of that Administrative support facilities in Saragota was never behind any fences prior to 9/11.  The Navy housing was always done by local small business contractors.  I believe the long range plan was to move the Scotia facilities to Saratoga, but that may have changed in the last few years.

[wetbedknob]

They did move the scotia facilities to saratoga. They had a plan where there would be a rotating maintenance shift and planned shutdowns for the plants to save both fuel and downtime. They were plannng it out as I was leaving. They would have 3 of the 4 plants up at all times.

[banzaitoyota]

Who remembers back in 82(or was it 83?) when the term "cartoon kegger" was prohibited from being mentioned at quarters? In response to the tragic deaths of many previous classmates due to DUI's, the term was then changed to "Tea and Crumpets" (at least at MARF).

It was also a "custom" (albeit in extremely poor taste) to bring your empties in and deposit them at the DUI wrecked car located on the entrance road.



mmmm. other bad thing to do while attending prototype training: Blasting past the CO of the site on the inside curve on your bike while you are late for your dental appointment at Ballston Spa.

[bmr176]

i just heard that one of the prototype reactors is getting shut down and they will be sending most of the people to new york.

is this at all true?

Are you getting ready to go to prototype?  I think this a rumor that gets started with every class.  It happened in my class and the class before mine.

You don't sound like you want to go to NY Balston Spa.  It is a great place.  I have very fond memories of it up there.  I would consider going back but my wife is a southern gal and wants to stay south of the Mason-Dixon.

[GordonFreeman747]

hmm...wish i had more info on the charleston site. we here in ny have caught wind of the proposed addition of the third sub mentioned earlier, but i havent heard about any decom at bettis.

Speaking of rumours... when I was still on ustafish, there was a lot of talk going around that our boat was scheduled for decom in 2011, and afterwards would be converted to an MTS.  That might have changed though, seeing as how they just won the Battenberg cup last year... The bigwigs might just want to keep her around for a little longer.

[LaFeet]

I played that golf course many times, and take my advice, watch out for the gators around the waterline or laying in the fairway.

 Yeah, but if you are brave (and fast enough) you can really clean up on a lot of free balls.
While on the Narpig, we used to play there often, even in the snow