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Author Topic: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete  (Read 16321 times)

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raymcginnis

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Anyone have experience with a good fixative for rubbleizing concrete.  We are looking to save scabbling and decon costs while still keeping the jack-hammer and shoveling crew out of respirators.  If you know an effective fixative, who makes it and what levels of fixed contamination may be safely left on the concrete I would appreciate the information.

alphadude

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #1 on: Jul 05, 2005, 03:21 »
BNI markets one

the old elmers glue works well as the asbestos silicate and glue based fix. most are all the same- if they are white they tend to have milk based glues and sodium silicate. I have used both prior the "creation" of the fixers that are on the market now. 

Offline PWHoppe

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #2 on: Jul 05, 2005, 03:26 »
Master-Lee Decon Services makes a good fixative for such an application. I have used it for this type of application as well as encapsulation for other types of decontamination. If your interested PM me and I'll get you some contact names and numbers.
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atomicarcheologist

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #3 on: Jul 05, 2005, 04:02 »
The best method that I have found to remove the concrete and maintain the crew in bare faced AntiC is to have them saw cut the concrete and remove the blocks.  The saw cutting operation is done in a constant wet mode, which minimizes the airborne potential.   Another method that works well is to use a shot blaster.  These are operated under an absolute (yes,I know) and minimize airborne and the creation of loose contamination.The problem with using a fixative, is the penetration of the contaminant into the conrcret itself.  That contamination which has penetrated below the surface will no longer be sealed once the sealant is broken, as by a jack hammer.  Then you are once again at square one.  Maybe 1 squared.

raymcginnis

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #4 on: Jul 05, 2005, 08:18 »
Thanks.  All of the posts were great, but I am still looking for advice on what fixed contamination levels the fixatatives are effective at.

The concrete is not activated.  The facility was a dry fuel stroage facility.  It is all contamination that goes down to up to 2 inches because of porosity.

Now I just answered my own question.  Unless I can get a fixative to soak in 2 inches in those locations, it will still go airborne during jack-hammering.

Now this discussion becomes interesting.  Who has actual airborne data from jack-hammered contaminated concrete (not activated concrete) that was fixated on the surface but was penetrated into the concrete?

RAD-GHOST

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #5 on: Jul 06, 2005, 05:05 »
What are the Isotopes you’re working with Ray?

Have you performed core samples to verify the actual penetration?  Two inch penetration is pretty heavy duty, especially with the standard fission products, (Cracks & Fissures are the exceptions).

If you have performed core samples, I suggest removing the top 1 or 2 millimeters prior to performing your analysis.  Slice your core into pucks about every 1/4 inch, then count to obtain the actual penetration.

RAW concrete has some interesting characteristics, especially when it is combined with the chemical properties of many isotopes.

Silica levels may actually become your Restrictive Criteria for Respirators.

Yes, I have data!

RG

SappAssociates

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #6 on: Jul 06, 2005, 05:56 »
Ray you need to contact Margaret Kimokeo @ T.E.A.M. Concepts Engineering,LLC
865-742-1960 or E-mail teamconcepts@msn.com This company can provide all your contamination controls.

Call me if you need more info.
Barry @ 865-385-0721



atomicarcheologist

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #7 on: Jul 06, 2005, 08:53 »

Now I just answered my own question.  Unless I can get a fixative to soak in 2 inches in those locations, it will still go airborne during jack-hammering.


Why mess around with jackhammer operations with 2" of contaminate penetration?  Use concrete saws and cut the concrete into sizes that can be lifted, contained, and disposed of in your dedicated waste stream.  With penetration to 2" I would not suggest using shot blast operations, as it takes along time to remove that much volume with the airborne controls needed for this type of work.

raymcginnis

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #8 on: Jul 07, 2005, 09:50 »
Thanks to all for the replies and advice.

Quote
What are the Isotopes you’re working with Ray?

Have you performed core samples to verify the actual penetration?

RadGhost:  Predominately Cs-137 with U, Th and Pu from fuel decladding and a little Co-60.  Cs-137 is generally at 90% or above.  These vaults are at a higher alpha level than normally seen at the facility.  The 2" came from search and destoy operations.  The crew does removal and the HP techs look until it is clean.  Those operations gave me the 2" depth number.  This facility will not get a MARSSIM survey, because none of it can be sent to a standard waste site because of State regulations.  It will all have to go to either rad or hazardous burial.  Hot and unreleasable goes to rad, clean goes to hazardous.  We don't need trick cores etc to tell us this.

Quote
Why mess around with jackhammer operations with 2" of contaminate penetration?  Use concrete saws and cut the concrete into sizes that can be lifted, contained, and disposed of in your dedicated waste stream.

Atomic Archeologist, see above.  It all has to be removed and buried somewhere.  We are experienced with saw cutting and it is much more expensive than jack-hammering.  We are looking for advice on keeping the workers out of respirators (inexpereinced contrators) and saving money.


Quote
Ray you need to contact Margaret Kimokeo @ T.E.A.M. Concepts Engineering,LLC

Thanks Sapp, I will contact them.

Quote
Can you consider ultra high pressure water?

MARSSIM, our plans are to decon the hottest areas with respirators with our expereinced technicians (enclosed facility with ventilation) and then apply a fixative and let the contractors rubbleize the remaining low level concrete.  We may already have gotten rid of spills that soaked in deep, so my earlier point about fixatives may be wrong.

Thanks again for the time spent by everyone in the replies.  I have things to investigate now.  This is what I was looking for.  If something else comes to mind, then please keep posting.



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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #9 on: Jul 08, 2005, 12:45 »
hay ray!  iffen yinz wanna keep the workers out of respirators 'n want to do this with jackhammers, why doncha get a mechanized unit like a mini-excavator equipped with a hoe-ram (hydralic jackhammer) 'n an a/c cab?  hepa up the a/c, duct tape the doors 'n windows, 'n let the man go to town.  use multiple units 'n get it done now!  engineering controls on the area take care of the balance. 
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raymcginnis

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #10 on: Jul 08, 2005, 10:23 »
Quote
hay ray!  iffen yinz wanna keep the workers out of respirators 'n want to do this with jackhammers, why doncha get a mechanized unit like a mini-excavator equipped with a hoe-ram (hydralic jackhammer) 'n an a/c cab?

SloGlo,

This is one thing to consider.  More than likely the jack-hammer operator will be sitting inside of the cab of a huge CAT or John Deere (I don't think that we will need duct tape, LOL).  He will be far away from from the airborne source.  We may have to send contractors into the rubble to burn rebar or who knows what unexpected thing might come up?  The other considerations are not crapping up the CAT or John Deere equipment.

We are just planning this job.  We already know how to successfully do this with saw cutting.  Jack-hammering is way cheaper.  It was my assignment to find out ways to do this successfully with jack-hammering, and to see if it is even feasable.  I knew that reaching out to the NukeWorker community would be a good starting point.

Thanks for the input from everyone.

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #11 on: Jul 09, 2005, 01:01 »
'k, ray.... i woodn't use a big unit, i'd look into getting the little ones.  you can use more of them in a building's interior, 'n the work goes faster.  burn the rubble after all the concrete is broken up and the equipment is out of there.  re: crapping up the equipment; use a water hose mounted on the arm to minimize the dust.  rinse off the cabs in stuff prior to the operator exiting the cab.  this should minimize the decon needed.  since the contamination process of the equipment will be primarily a deposition mode, it is not difficult to encase the motor housing with plastic 'n use filters over the louvers to keep the stuff of the engine.  but, prior to release, hitting all areas with a good degreaser, an excavator detail, so to speak, will greatly enhance the chances of free release.  don't get it clean prior to the work starting, as any contaminate will get deposited onto and entrapped in the grease 'n oil on the surfaces and thus will be removable at the end of the operation.
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raymcginnis

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #12 on: Jul 09, 2005, 09:46 »
Quote
'k, ray.... i woodn't use a big unit, i'd look into getting the little ones.  you can use more of them in a building's interior, 'n the work goes faster

Slo Glo,

We will consider all suggestions.  This facility is huge so bigger jack-hammering alternatives seem better and cheaper than smaller ones.  I will present your ideas at the next meeting.

What we are looking for is suggestions after decon.  The whole lower facility has to go to hazardous burial (State Moratorium).  We want to decon to a point so that it is OK for the big jack-hammers to come in and do their thing, without restraint, even though it will be slightly radioactively contaminated.  We are still looking for that dpm number and that fixative that makes this possible.  I am only one of many team members looking at this.  I appreciate all of the input.

pointman

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #13 on: Aug 29, 2005, 07:41 »
sorry about that last post ray but if you worked on my site you would understand in answer to your ? its real simple you must contain the hammer operations we use  temporary plastic tents  as well as maximum atainable hepa filtration we use 8 inch hepa lines held right at the cutting bit to avoid release of surface contaminates we scabble prior to hammering now after my best answer back to my complaining please consider the option that your workers need NO ANTI C S FOR THIS WORK  but they do need a respirater whenever they are breathing concrete dust

Doc_REM

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #14 on: Aug 30, 2005, 04:09 »
Ray,
We shot pinged, scabbled, blasted concert at BNFL K-33/31 and took 100's/1000's of air samples with none above critia limit's.
Our depth limit started out to be 3/8"...then when to" get it out of here" limit! We still kept the worker's in PAPR'S, even after 18 month's of data.

raymcginnis

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #15 on: Sep 04, 2005, 11:13 »
Thanks to all for the information about your experiences.  I know what to do now.  Doc REM, your post was the the cherry on the sundae.  Thank you.

Sometimes we overprotect because there is no real data available to allow us to protect just the right amount so we go overboard to protect our estremità and especially to protect the worker's estremità.

This discussion brings us all closer to the goal of protecting workers precisely, or at least that was my wish.

Since my last post, I have gone into the area and surveyed it myself.  Unsealed concrete contamination is strange or at the least weird.  Sometimes you think that you are almost finished.  You go deeper and it gets hotter rather than less radioactive.  Radioactive contamination of concrete is not logical, by any means.

The only logical answer is to send it all to radioactive disposal.  Trying to decon to clean is a fruitless effort.

Doc_REM

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Re: Contaminant Fixative for Jack-Hammering Concrete
« Reply #16 on: Sep 04, 2005, 12:58 »
Ray,
In my opinion...OOPPPSSSS! there I go using that word, concrete is almost impossible! to decon. If it's clean it's clean...if it's hot dispose of it as Rad Waste!  As you stated..start out with 5k fixed...end up with 230k fixed after first pass! What started out to be a some what simple job, turned out to be a nitemare! :D

 


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