Sub or Carrier guys?

[Xhelix]

Right now I'm going through NFAS as an MM, and my intention is to become an ELT...well rather, get picked up for ELT school.

My gpa is acceptable, 3.63, and I'm putting in enough hours (15 so far this week) but I'm not a sub vol.

Right now I really can't decide if I want to vol subs, but from what I hear it may be worth it.  So what do you guys, in your infinate wisdom and experiance (hehe) think?

Thanks in advance.

[Already Gone]

This is a topic more hotly debated than Coke vs. Pepsi, Bush vs, Kerry, or MaryAnn vs. Ginger.  For my part, I say subs all the way.  But if you enjoyed Boot Camp and want to play like you are in the military for the next several years, then go ride a target around the ocean.  Just remember that Adm. Rickover once testified before congress that the life expectancy of a carrier in a full-scale war is 15 minutes.

[Fermi2]

Thats a toughie, I guess it depends on what sort of environment  you want to live in. I think those who say the sailors on one are anymore loose than sailors on the other are perpetuating a myth. I was a Sub Sailor and couldn't imagine doing anything differently, yet my two best buds in the whole world were CVN sailors.

Man you have a LOT of time to figure this out. Don't go volunteering for anything until later in Power school, unless they let you decide later. I didn't volunteer until I was an instructor at Alice In Wonderland.

Mike

[Rad Sponge]

Hmm, this is a tough question to answer without potentially offending the sensitive types out there.

Don't volunteer submarines until you are in Prototype, then you can ask the sea-returnee instructors about their experiences.

I volunteered for subs in boot, but that was in the fashion I joined the Navy, one big shotgun blast.

Nuke? What's a nuke? Ok I'll do that.

Machinist Mate? What's an MM, ok sign me up.

Subs? Page-13? What's that. Ok, I'll do that too.

I had no idea.

Best decisions I ever made.

However, nukeworker.com was not available to me in 1996, so do some research and find out for yourself.

 

[MLew44]

Carrier. Big A4W PWRs. Not wholly unlike a commercial PWR. The work part is cool. Newer carriers are even cooler, especially if an ET -- all microprocessor based stuff. Nukes are somewhat insulated from the rest of the ship.

Waiting on line to board a liberty boat for hours sucks though. Wading though hundreds of morons trying to get some lunch; that sucks. Going ashore in a foreign port and realizing that your ship just inundated a town with 5,000 squids; that sucks. Trying to sleep in a berthing compartment with a couple of hundred others in the aft of the ship when they're running maneuvering drills and you can't hear yourself think -- on second thought; go subs!

[Fermi2]

Here's a good website that talks all about carrier life. It's run by a nukeschool classmate of mine.

It's well worth the effort, even if you just want a hell of a lot of good laughs.

For the ex Navy guys, beware, your wife or significant other will be wondering why you're laughing so loud!

http://www.mooj.com/rxdept.htm

Mike

[visserjr]

Kid, I think Beercourt said it best.....

This is a topic more hotly debated than Coke vs. Pepsi, Bush vs, Kerry, or MaryAnn vs. Ginger.  For my part, I say subs all the way.  But if you enjoyed Boot Camp and want to play like you are in the military for the next several years, then go ride a target around the ocean.  Just remember that Adm. Rickover once testified before congress that the life expectancy of a carrier in a full-scale war is 15 minutes.

Who wants to ride at test depth all of the time, even next to the pier!

[Rad Sponge]

Maybe I will chime in some stuff, this of course is all heresay from CVN sailors I have worked with, bothe nukes and airdales.

On a Carrier:

1. Officers are everywhere and there are special areas with blue tiles and adornment where enlisted men are not allowed to be without official permission.

2. There are upwards of 5,000 people so all the problems of any city exist on a Carrier: Crime, Prostitution, Drugs, overcrowding, etc, etc.

3. You are a dime a dozen.

4. You are smart and are surrounded by lots of people with higher ranks that are compartitively retarded.

On a Submarine:

1. Officers and Enlisted pretty much cohabitate and work alongside each other. There are "off limit" areas like the CO/XO staterooms and some times the wardroom, but other than that its a big family style environment.

2. There maybe 130 people max on a Trident or Fast Attack depending on the mission and if visitors are aboard. You will know all your shipmates' first and last names by the end of the first deployment and by the time you leave you will probably know their wives and families too, not just the nukes, but possibly the entire crew, especially on a fast attack.

3. You are a commodity and that means you will be worked hard, but can reach leadership positions faster if you want to.

4. You are smart and surrounded by people of a higher rank who are comparitively retarded, but at least there are less of them.

5. I hear the food on a carrier is mediocre at best for the E-6 and below mess. On a carrier, the Officers and the Chiefs eat out of seperate messes with their own food and cooks, but on a sub, everyone eats out of the same mess and the food is routinely excellent.

6. You may have internet and phones on a carrier, but on a sub you have each other and that my friend forms bonds and families. Fast Attacks and Tridents are developing e-mail, and its okay, and getting better as new encryption technologies filter its way to the boats. I am not denying the closeness of Eng Dept on a carrier, but there is something about "those with dolphins".

[ramdog_1]

There are upwards of 5,000 people so all the problems of any city exist on a Carrier: Crime, Prostitution, Drugs, overcrowding, etc, etc.

How could you have any of that in a area run by the US Navy ? Drugs I do not see it nor Prostitution. not when they Have those Marines who stand so tall and take care of the security of the ship.
now may be a few card games  of hearts or something like that.
I have heard stories of the Sailors who go under the sea but my goodness.

[Rad Sponge]

There are upwards of 5,000 people so all the problems of any city exist on a Carrier: Crime, Prostitution, Drugs, overcrowding, etc, etc.

How could you have any of that in a area run by the US Navy ? Drugs I do not see it nor Prostitution. not when they Have those Marines who stand so tall and take care of the security of the ship.
now may be a few card games  of hearts or something like that.
I have heard stories of the Sailors who go under the sea but my goodness.

Umm, just ask any sailor nuke or non-nuke. It happens, and although there are stiff penalties for illegal activity, it does not dissuade some from pushing the envelope.

Crime happens. It just tends to happen more the larger the population.

[visserjr]

JMK is right. I spoke with a buddy who was on the Big E. He said that there was 2 girls an a guy busted for prostitution while he was there. Also something about a secret gang called the spooners. They were identified by a spoon in there back pocket. As a former DAPA I can say with the most assured certainty, that the Eisenhower had >30 drug or Alcohol incidents a month at one point.

[mattrev]

Having a selection for Sub + ELT & Sub + MM is not really correct for the sub world (at least is wasn't when I was in). Being an ELT on a sub means you're also an MM. I think I was the underway ELT for 2 patrols. Only 1 guy did the ELT when underway. The rest stood MM watches. After that I worked my way up until my last patrol I stood EWS on the nightshift & was the ship's drill coordinator. I also got to go to training for QA/QC, Oxy/Acetelyene, AC&R, (and others I long since forgotten) in addition to many ELT courses. From what my carrier friends have told me, they didn't get to do stuff like that.
So if you get to prototype & decide you like the MM stuff, on a sub you'll get to do both. I loved the MM side (I was also the LELT) especially after I qual'd EWS/EDPO.  Gotta' love 1 in 8 duty section.

Once you get out, there are more options for you too RP, Chemistry, Operations. Most carrier ELT's I know when just to RP/Chem.

[Rad Sponge]

Before the "crime" discussion goes futher, let me position myself by saying that all Naval commands, regardless of size experience illegal activities of one form or another.

Its just that a Carrier is a very unique environment, because almost every nationality, race, and religion is represented by the crew and there can be 3000-6000 people aboard in a confined amount of space, therefore it will experience a level of crime and social pressure that no amount of mentoring or core valueship can ever completely dissuade or mitigate.

[M1Ark]

LOL.. ALL ELT's claim to be mechanics.  We all know better.  In the commercial world, most ELT's in the Ops department will tell you that they were an MM in the Nav.  It's usually through accident and after years of knowing them that the truth comes out.

[retired nuke]

Coke, McCain, Maryann,....Subs
Subs is like a disfunctional family...Carriers are like a bad neighborhood in Philly.......nothin against Philly

This is a topic more hotly debated than Coke vs. Pepsi, Bush vs, Kerry, or MaryAnn vs. Ginger.  For my part, I say subs all the way.  But if you enjoyed Boot Camp and want to play like you are in the military for the next several years, then go ride a target around the ocean.  Just remember that Adm. Rickover once testified before congress that the life expectancy of a carrier in a full-scale war is 15 minutes.

[mattrev]

LOL.. ALL ELT's claim to be mechanics.  We all know better.  In the commercial world, most ELT's in the Ops department will tell you that they were an MM in the Nav.  It's usually through accident and after years of knowing them that the truth comes out.

I've heard it's a little different now, but when I was in, ELT was a collateral duty. We were mechanics first on the boat. We did everything M-Div did plus our own stuff. For a time, all but 1 of the MM1's (out of 5) were ELT's.

When I first got in, I knew BT ELT's & EM ELT's. In fact the NR rep when I was at prototype (SPU) was a BT ELT. He had some good stories.

[Already Gone]

Wow!  I thought I was raising ghosts when I remembered that there were IC ELT's.  Most of the kids here don't even realize that there were IC's in the nuke program.  You must have been in when there were Engineman RO's too.

[mattrev]

Wow!  I thought I was raising ghosts when I remembered that there were IC ELT's.  Most of the kids here don't even realize that there were IC's in the nuke program.  You must have been in when there were Engineman RO's too.

I think I was in about the same time as you. My wife was an ex-IC nuke. They made her switch to EM at some point. (I think when she extended to go with me on spousal duty). I knew of EN nukes. If I recall, there was an ENCM nuke at squadron, but don't think I had duty with any.

One of the techs where I work now was an EM ELT. (mid 70-'s)

I also remember FTB's, FTM's, TM's.  From what I've heard, they're all gone now too.

[s_Phoenix]

The answer is easy.  Internet / payphone's most all the time.  Do like talking / emailing you loved one's.    If not go sink to the bottom and tell know one anything about when you leave and when you'll be back.  Just hope they get the message to come pick you up at the pier. 
 
As bad as the problems sound on a carrier.  After a week every one get in to a routine and the lines go away.  And for maneuvering drills, there great.  All back full rock you to sleep faster than you know.  After a while you don't even notice the them. 

Duty day's are normally every 3 days on a sub.  CVN are every 5 or 6 day's.  We even did a trail with 8 section duty for six month's.  Worked great untill we changed some chiefs out and they didnt like it.  They couldnt get there old fat ass around 2 plants in an hour.

One other thing,  You can see the evil sun if you want.  Though most nuke's hate it.  Just reminds us that were not back in port.

[Rad Sponge]

Yes this is all true about the sun and e-mail and stuff.

But I did get to surf on the back of a Trident when I was doing swipes back aft topside before RTP.

I mean it was just me standing on top of the sub at 10-15 kts with nothing in sight. Pretty neat feeling.

I have nothing against CVNs, but I guess if you are a small crowd kind of person or someone who likes living in a dysfunctional frat house, then subs are a good choice..

[Marlin]

LOL.. ALL ELT's claim to be mechanics.  We all know better.  In the commercial world, most ELT's in the Ops department will tell you that they were an MM in the Nav.  It's usually through accident and after years of knowing them that the truth comes out.

Sorry, I have to agree with gone sailin'. When I was in you reported to M-div every morning and typically only the duty ELT was not assigned M Div work for the day. The only other division of labor was that the ELT's tended to do more Primary Plant work so they could provide their own job coverage. Most of my 3.5 R in the Navy was done doing Primary Plant Maintenance in upkeep and the yards. Can't speak for the Boomers or Skimmers but on a Fast Attack we wore a lot hats and if anything it caused us additional work with plenty of time in a MM capacity.

[Already Gone]

I think I was in about the same time as you. My wife was an ex-IC nuke. They made her switch to EM at some point. (I think when she extended to go with me on spousal duty). I knew of EN nukes. If I recall, there was an ENCM nuke at squadron, but don't think I had duty with any.

One of the techs where I work now was an EM ELT. (mid 70-'s)

I also remember FTB's, FTM's, TM's.  From what I've heard, they're all gone now too.

So who does all the shooting?

[Fermi2]

According to this FT's and TM's

http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/OccStandards/Appendix_B.htm

Mike

[Rad Sponge]

To be even more specific...

On a sub, the TM rating has been replaced with MM-Weapons.

TM is now only a skimmer rating.

However, the cultural vernacular is still Torpedomen and Torpedo Space and TMOW etc ect.

The only thing that really changed was the rating badge and maybe some bean counter stuff at Millington.

[ramdog_1]

What is a Spooner?
ah oh will like my old Boss used to say when we had a FOB dude you got the Squid  teach how it works out here in the nuke world.
you guys are all cool. 
As for me I hope you all had a good vets day.

[Navy2B]

6. You may have internet and phones on a carrier,

Hi, how restricted is the internet and phone use on a carrier? I currently use instant messaging to keep in touch. Would that be restricted?

Is internet usage essentially all read only?

This is a bit important to me, because it seems like I'd love sub duty more IF internet access is useless.

[taterhead]

Internet:  On Nimitz, all have internet access, but depending on operational status, we shift to "tiered usage", in which, usage is controlled by tiers.  For instance, the bottom tier is pretty much shipwide usage.  The next tier up will eliminate anyone E3 and below.  The next tier is CPO and above....etc.  So you will have internet to some extent, and email pretty much all the time, although the limiting factor there is computer time, which is generally limited during the workday.  That said, barring EMCON levels, you will be able to check your email every day or so. 

For essentially useless, I am not sure what you mean.  You didn't hear it from me, but I have seen guys buy cars from the Persian Gulf with their reenlistment bonuses, manage bank accounts, buy stocks, you name it.

Instant messaging will be hard, and guys will be pissed you are hogging up computer time to IM with your family vice emailing them, if you could even get AIM express to load.

Oh, and we are in 8 section duty (again) after testing is over this month.  Eight section!  My buddy at Point Loma sub base stands 3 duty days in the same period that I stand one!

[ender17]

Actually, Instant Messaging is pretty buch banned for use.  Besides, you can't (well not allowed too) download any programs onto the computers.  Can't even access your Yahoo account either.  If you can, then your computer security peoples are all jacked up.  But yeah, you can doo all that other internet stuff.  I used to order car parts while underway.

[flamatrix99]

Hmm, this is a tough question to answer without potentially offending the sensitive types out there.

Don't volunteer submarines until you are in Prototype, then you can ask the sea-returnee instructors about their experiences.

I volunteered for subs in boot, but that was in the fashion I joined the Navy, one big shotgun blast.

Nuke? What's a nuke? Ok I'll do that.

Machinist Mate? What's an MM, ok sign me up.

Subs? Page-13? What's that. Ok, I'll do that too.

I had no idea.

Best decisions I ever made.

However, nukeworker.com was not available to me in 1996, so do some research and find out for yourself.

 

Hehehe sounds like how I got into the nuclear navy.  I was a bubblehead myself (MM1/SS) and can't imagine being on one of those targets with 5000 of my closest friends.

I was in the Navy about 4 years before I saw a skimmer. I spent my last 3 years in the Navy on two submarine tenders (Dixon and McKee) working in Nuclear Repair with some surface and mostly sub guys. I also presently work with some ex nuke surface guys. 

On a submarine M-Division does everything from Main/Aux Seawater, running the evaporator and/or lube oil purifiers. Then five minutes later you could be working on reactor systems. Depends what work is going on. You do alittle of alot of stuff. On the big gray targets from what I understand there is Reactor M-Div and the engineroom M-Div (I don't know what they are called) that work on the secondary.  They have more specific areas where they work/stand watch. An ex-Reactor Machinist Mate I work with said he only had to work in the engineroom1 or 2 times in the 4 years he was onboard. I personally liked the variety of tasks and equipment. I also believe it better prepared me for working in the real world after the Navy.

[ender17]

It's actually kinda easy.  The primary side mechanics are in Reactor Mechanical Division (RM-Div, Shiny Pipers).  The secondary side mechanics are in Machinery Division (M-Div).  Although some carriers are trying to get RP to stick (Reactor Propulsion).  Just about every secondary mechanic will never use that term.  We refuse to be called anything but M-Div.

I really liked being on a carrier.  See, I didn't (still don't) agree with a boat that sinks on purpose.  Oh I know, as long as the ratio equals one you are good.  That and it submerges, not sinks.  I don't care.

[Marlin]

Hmm, this is a tough question to answer without potentially offending the sensitive types out there.

Don't volunteer submarines until you are in Prototype, then you can ask the sea-returnee instructors about their experiences.

I volunteered for subs in boot, but that was in the fashion I joined the Navy, one big shotgun blast.

Nuke? What's a nuke? Ok I'll do that.

Machinist Mate? What's an MM, ok sign me up.

Subs? Page-13? What's that. Ok, I'll do that too.

I had no idea.

Best decisions I ever made.

However, nukeworker.com was not available to me in 1996, so do some research and find out for yourself.

 

I don't remember volunteering, but apparently I did. With the Cold war in full swing and a sub fleet amost double the one today and many fewer Aircraft carriers, over half of all graduating nukes went to subs. I do not regret sub service and everyone who pinned on his Dolphins joined a small community with a great heritage. One of the members of my Sub Vets group here in Knoxville earned his Dolpins in 1934. At 94 he swims one hour a day and is a member of a dance club where I hear he is quite a ladies man. He survived depth charge attacks and his sub navigated mine fields while on patrol. I want to be just like him when I grow up probably to the embarresment of my grandchildren. Like many others on the boats I avoided any contact if possible with the surface fleet, they simply were too NAVY for us. As a First class PO I got a speeding ticket for an unsat haircut every other month from the tender Master at Arms. There is no doubt that the work, service commitment, and isolation on the boats is greater but most ex bubbleheads I know do not regret it.

[ChiefRocscooter]

I really liked being on a carrier.  See, I didn't (still don't) agree with a boat that sinks on purpose.  Oh I know, as long as the ratio equals one you are good.  That and it submerges, not sinks.  I don't care.

Having been on both (disclaimer says I must say only passenger on Carrier,several times thought including traps and cat shots)  I would'nt trade coners for airdales at less than a ratio of 1 for every 20 airdales!  At least the cone-heads think of themselves as part of the crew!!

5000 Friends?? How about 100 friends and a bunch of people you would not trust when your not looking!  Not that there are no thiefs on a boats, but they never last long and look like a thief when they leave

As for the sinking thing, well it better than jumping out of a good airplane and besides we get to grow beards and wear sneakers underway! now if we could just get that women on subs thing fixed we would be the place to be

[ender17]

haha.  There is a HUGE difference between Air Dept. and Air Wing.  Air Wing is squadron, and doesn't play games.  Air Dept. is actually made up of people that are part of the ship.  They play games.  The only guys in Air that I would talk to were from Air Dept.  As far as jumping out of planes...that's Army.  Well, and special forces, and S&R teams.

Beards, I can't grow one anyway.  It comes in all patchy and ugly looking.  I don't even grow one on leave, mainly because the gf don't like it. 

[taterhead]

As for the sinking thing, well it better than jumping out of a good airplane and besides we get to grow beards and wear sneakers underway!)

Since when is getting the opportunity to look like an athletic hillbilly considered an advantage?



 

[Fermi2]

Since when is getting the opportunity to look like an athletic hillbilly considered an advantage?



 

LMAO!!!!

Mike