why do the call a sub a boat?

Started by ramdog_1, Aug 14, 2008, 07:36

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ramdog_1

 why do the call a sub a boat?
this guy I was working with was calling one ship a gator frieghter what is the meaning of that is that some sort of slang?

ramdog_1

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rlbinc

Quote from: ramdog_1 on Aug 14, 2008, 07:36
gator freighter what is the meaning of that?

Amphibious landing ships. LSTs, Landing Ship Tanks are typically a shallow draft ship with a Tail Gate opening up to form a ramp for vehicle and troop deployment. The Tail Gate became Gator and the exiting vehicles made it a Freighter. So that's a Gator Freighter.

Yes - its slang. And 85 year old WW2 vets know exactly what your talking about when you use the term. When this usage has enough tradition behind it, they'll put it in the Bluejacket Manual and it will eventually become a definitive term.


93-383

Quote from: ramdog_1 on Aug 14, 2008, 07:36
why do the call a sub a boat?


Ship refers to a vessel that can curise in open ocean "blue water" a boat typicaly is restricted to shore river and lake operation "brown water"

This is a guess but the early submarines could not navigate blue water so they where probably called boats and the name just stuck.

Already Gone

Quote from: rlbinc on Aug 15, 2008, 05:06
Amphibious landing ships. LSTs, Landing Ship Tanks are typically a shallow draft ship with a Tail Gate opening up to form a ramp for vehicle and troop deployment. The Tail Gate became Gator and the exiting vehicles made it a Freighter. So that's a Gator Freighter.

Yes - its slang. And 85 year old WW2 vets know exactly what your talking about when you use the term. When this usage has enough tradition behind it, they'll put it in the Bluejacket Manual and it will eventually become a definitive term.



You are close.  Gator refers to the amphibious tanks themselves.  Thus a ship which carries "gators" is a gator freighter.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Already Gone

Quote from: 93-383 on Aug 15, 2008, 05:44
Ship refers to a vessel that can curise in open ocean "blue water" a boat typicaly is restricted to shore river and lake operation "brown water"

This is a guess but the early submarines could not navigate blue water so they where probably called boats and the name just stuck.

You are not close.  A ship and a boat are both propelled watercraft as opposed to a barge, which must be towed.  The difference is that ship is 300 feet or longer at the waterline.

Modern submarines are long enough to be ships, but tradition trumps everything and they are still called boats.  Except for the very earliest subs, which were designed to attack anchored ships in a harbor, the submarine has always been an open-ocean craft.  WWII was of course the heyday of the submarine where most of the traditions were formed.  The boats of that era were essentially submersible versions of the Patrol Torpedo (PT) boats, which were also blue-water craft.

Of course, subs are really called boats because that is what submariners call them - and submariners do things our own way.  For example, the word "submariner" itself is pronounced just like submarine with an r at the end - not sub-mariner.  A sub-mariner is some kind of sandwich that you get at a baseball game in Seattle.  A man who braves the deep is a submariner - and we damned well call the boat a boat if we want to.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

PapaBear765

Quote from: BeerCourt on Aug 15, 2008, 07:22
You are not close.  A ship and a boat are both propelled watercraft as opposed to a barge, which must be towed.  The difference is that ship is 300 feet or longer at the waterline.

Modern submarines are long enough to be ships, but tradition trumps everything and they are still called boats.  Except for the very earliest subs, which were designed to attack anchored ships in a harbor, the submarine has always been an open-ocean craft.  WWII was of course the heyday of the submarine where most of the traditions were formed.  The boats of that era were essentially submersible versions of the Patrol Torpedo (PT) boats, which were also blue-water craft.

Of course, subs are really called boats because that is what submariners call them - and submariners do things our own way.  For example, the word "submariner" itself is pronounced just like submarine with an r at the end - not sub-mariner.  A sub-mariner is some kind of sandwich that you get at a baseball game in Seattle.  A man who braves the deep is a submariner - and we damned well call the boat a boat if we want to.

In boot camp they told us that a vessel greater than length X was a ship and less than X was a boat.  A submarine being greater than should be called a ship, but (I figured over the years) submariners call 'em boats because they don't follow convention.  Like referring to spaces as TGLO Bay rather than something like compartment 2-24-134.  Also, not following convention since (I've heard) sub officers back in the beginning were looked down upon by other officers because on a sub they would invariably get dirty, thereby making them less officer like.  Since sub enlisted and officers were black sheep, they all just do their own thing and are a closer crew because of it.

Marlin

   The term "Boat" for a submarine is a traditional affectionate term used by submariners, first used when subs were much smaller than they are today. Simply put a vessel small enough to be carried by a ship was called a boat and many ships small enough to be carried by a ship such as the PT boats also came by this moniker due to thier small size.

deltarho

Thought I'd add some history to the lesson...

Winston Churchill: "Enemy submarines are to be called U-boats. The term 'submarine' is to be reserved for Allied underwater vessels. U-boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs."


The above has nothing to do with any real  or imagined person(s).  Moreover, any referenced biped(s) simulating real or imagined persons--with a pulse or not--is coincidental, as far as you know.

guppy

I thought that subs were boats and everything else was a target?
Keep honking.  I'm reloading.

kp88

Quote from: Marssim on Nov 02, 2008, 10:45
that would be correct,....

karma for stating the overlooked obvious,.... :)

Normal people, being more attuned to their surroundings, tend to get off of their boat/ship when it is going underwater.

Already Gone

Intelligent people don't ever get on a ship that can't come back up after it submerges.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

RDTroja

Quote from: HoneyComb on Nov 05, 2008, 02:51
Yet more proof that Nukes are not normal but highly intelligent.  Well at least most of us!

I choose intelligence over normal anyway.

Intelligence is not normal... we were treated to ample evidence of that last night.  :(
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                                  -Marty Feldman

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to understand that it bears a very close resemblance to the first."
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Valkrider

They're called boats so Marines don't confuse them with sub sandwiches.

kp88

Quote from: BeerCourt on Nov 04, 2008, 10:47
Intelligent people don't ever get on a ship that can't come back up after it submerges.
Then, by your definition, submarines are ships?  (Boats submerge, ships do not.)  Personally, as long as the surface/dive ratio is one or greater, I don't care.  (The needs/quirks of the Navy clause sent me to a surface ship.)   :)

Already Gone

All ships are capable of submerging.

Subs are capable of coming back up.

We call 'em "boats" because that's what we call them.
"To be content with little is hard; to be content with much, impossible." - Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach

Dave Warren

Quote from: Valkrider on Nov 07, 2008, 06:33
They're called boats so Marines don't confuse them with sub sandwiches.
Actually, a sub to us is a Marine Reservist.
We commonly call them Sub-Marines.

McBride

The best Marine is a SUBMARINE!!!