Will The Navy Screw Me Over??

[dpalm2]

Hi,

    This is my first post ever and definitely not my last. I have 60 credit hours from the Univ. of Illinois in champaign-urbana in the nuclear engineering program.  I have no military experience.  I've read several things about the possible benefits of committing to the 6 year navy nuclear program for officers after I have my degree.  I'm worried that it's not all true. First of all, I can easily get in with a 3.9 GPA at one of the best Eng. Universities around.  I've heard that I can get a $10k signing bonus AND about $2500 a month for up to 30 months.  Is this possible to get even if I only want the money but do not really need it?  Will they do a credit check and see that I don't really need the money for school and give me a lousy contract?  Secondly, what if I get to the officer candidate school and despite the fact that I’m at least a decent physical specimen, don't make it as an officer for some reason?  Do I have to enlist or maybe pay them back?  Next, is the school that I'll end up at as an officer separate from those out of high school? The last thing I want is to be in another class I where I should be the one teaching it.  I’m thinking it will be a challenge though.  Sorry I'm such a "NUB" with so many questions.  The last thing I wanted to ask was if I can be guaranteed placement in the nuclear field.  If so, is there any way that they can agree to never put me a sub (I realize I'm getting greedy).  Thank you so much for answering any of my questions.  On a parting note, I'd just like to say that I want to serve because I, unlike so many people today, still believe in my country and will not mind making a sacrifice for it, as it has done so much for me! Thanks again,

                Dave

[taterhead]

 

[Rad Sponge]

I would not classify your status as a "NUB", but I would definitely characterize your status as new. In order to be a "NUB" you have to actually be in the Navy.

Since I am trying to stay up during my night shift day off, I will take the time to attempt to address your questions/statements in a matter befitting a future O-ganger. 

1. I am confused? You say you already have 60 cr in Nuc Eng from UIUC, yet you go on to say you can get in to any school of nuc eng. So either you are a junior w/ 60 fresh/soph credits or you are talking about getting in to a MS Nuke Eng program following your statedly stellar 3.9 GPA graduation. Or, your declared major is Nuc Eng and you have not started your core courses yet. Just trying to pinpoint your current status.

2. You talk about not needing money. If that's the case don't take it and just join the Navy after you graduate and go through OCS. If you do take it you will be going through NROTC training in lieu of having to go to OCS following graduation. Also, a stellar credit score will not negate an NROTC scholarship. If you were to follow that logic reciprocally you would think that the Navy was looking for people with bad credit to become officers. Not so. If you feel guilty about taking the NROTC stipend, every month find a blue shirt and give him or her the money.

3. Nuclear Power School: Settle down sport. O-NPS is graduate level reactor theory level stuff all centered around sea power. I don't think you have to worry about being too smart for the school. I think you will find it to be a swift kick in the realities. Think about school now: you can choose when to schedule your classes, you can choose to attend or not, you can choose to study or not, you can wear comfy clothes to school or not, you can take as many or as few classes per semester. And then we have Navy training. You have no choice. Think going to and leaving school when it is dark outside.

4. Subs. Sub service is an all volunteer duty.

I think that covers it. If you take the NROTC scholarship and still feel guilty about it, I can think of many ways for you to be a philanthropist.

[M1Ark]

I sat through enlisted nuclear power school with three guys that had degrees already.  There was also a Naval Academy dropout that had a 1450 SAT (he claims). One had a BS in Mechanical Engineering, Another BS in Statistical Analysis and a third in Marine Biology with GPA's between 2.8 to 3.6 from respected schools.  A couple of them failed several tests such as physics, thermodynamics and Reactor Operational Physics.  If I remember correctly, myself and several dozen other high school graduates did a fine job beating them easily on Nuke Power School exams.  Of course we made fun of them for it.  They joined the enlisted ranks thinking their degree would make them a shoe-in for the officer programs.  I don't think it worked out for them.  You will be surrounded by people with very high IQ's and success isn't guaranteed regardless of your background.

As far as your 60 credit hours... Nuke school is FULL of college dropouts that partied to much or ran out of money to fund their schooling.  You will be among hundreds within your class with the same pedigree.

[Marlin]

Its been a while since I went through NPS but we were placed in our classes based on test scores and previous education. Section one was almost entirely High school grads with passable test scores and section twelve on the top was almost all college grads with very impressive test scores even for nukes. I remember a sign over the door that had quote from Rickover that stated "The smartest work as hard...". The class curriculum varied from exactly what you needed to as much as you could handle in the upper class. Everyone took the same tests but level of effort to get there was different. The sign may not be there any more it may be gone along with the Mare Island school.
   To shorten this up M1Ark is right, do not expect a free ride based on previous experience you will just be held to a higher standard.

[shovelheadred]

....Hey DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!..of course they will,,,,its the NAVY....but it sounds to me like you will fit in just right,,,,cause you have a line of bull,,,just like 99% of the squids I know,,,I was in class 8003,,,if you dont need the $$,,then go to college...if you want to go out to sea at various times during the year...then sign the paper..........red

[visserjr]

I sat through enlisted nuclear power school with three guys that had degrees already.   A couple of them failed several tests ...If I remember correctly, myself and several dozen other high school graduates did a fine job beating them easily on Nuke Power School exams.  Of course we made fun of them for it.  They joined the enlisted ranks thinking their degree would make them a shoe-in for the officer programs.  I don't think it worked out for them.  Nuke school is FULL of college dropouts that partied to much or ran out of money to fund their schooling.  You will be among hundreds within your class with the same pedigree.

M1Ark said it best. Also, Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it. The Navy, or anyone else for that matter, will only screw you if you allow them to.

[dpalm2]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.  Its good to know that sub fleets are all volunteer.  Maybe I wasn't clear about this but I'm still in school, and will finish in about 30 months.  The program I'm talking about is one in which I have to do NOTHING except sign a contract for service after I graduate(but I have to sign it NOW/SOON).   At that point I would go to OCS and never have to touch ROTC.  Not many people know about it, but by brother (an AF Mech. E) says recently he has heard it mentioned by some of the enlistees under him and says hes angry he spent 3 of his college years in ROTC when he could have MADE money going to college and been in the same position as he is right now anyways.  I didn't mean to insult anybody when I said I might not be challenged; I never thought this, I know its hard.  Sorry I made you go on rants about how guys out of HS can do better then Univ. grads.  I've heard of these stories a thousand times and am sure they're true: college students are often lazy.  But I'm not, I work and actually enjoy what I study (probably why I do well).  As far as the issue of money goes, I'll take as much as I can get, I'm not rich or a philanthropist.  I asked if they take your financial situation into account when making up a military contract.  I never said I don't what our government's money. If I dont take it, it will just end up buying elderly people pills they don't need, or supporting the sloth of welfare recipiants(send angry/agreeing emails to dpalm2@gmail.com).  I hope I cleared up my situation. Any other info would be awsome.  I HAVE spent some time on the site searching but haven't found much that pertains to me. Thanks again,
                  Dave

P.S.    Red, why waste your time posting if your not going to say anything meaningful/helpful.  Don't call me a tool, look at yourself... Congrats on owning a Harley, what an accomplishment, I had a panhead the day I turned 16. I usually don't advertise that fact though.

[visserjr]

dpalm2,
 Going into ocs after graduation and to officer power school you would not have any hs grads in your class. Unfortunately for the navy, and very fortunately for you(I am sure others here would agree) the nuclear field can't keep officers in. Therefore, the standards have significantly lowered as of late. You might want to ask yourself why the incentives are so high. The reason is the can't keep people in.
 The retention is worse in the enlisted supervisory level Congress(not the Navy or any SRB program) had to pass an act to provide incentive bonuses called SERP for Enlisted supervisors to try and keep us in. Why, we're dropping like flies. The $ is 100,000 max on a bonus for the supervisors, 200,000 career total. My very humble guess as to why people at there 10-16 year point are getting out has to do with the "why me" kids showing up in both the enlisted and officer communities. Simply put, before, you were given the tools to handle problem children, now, you are pretty much stuck with them, or they get sent to another boat for a second chance.

[dpalm2]

A "why me" kid would be....one that doesn't want to be there but for some reason is?  And before they could deal with that by means of what is considered "abuse" in today's military, or did they just have better ways of weeding out the garden in the past? I think thats what your saying although it is off topic.

[Marlin]

"Off topic" seems to be our middle name. I've never heard of a program like you describe but it sounds like a good deal. You will find that the officer route has a few options that are not available to enlisted in the Nuclear field if that is what you are interested in. I would suggest a different forum to answer those questions as most of the posters here were not officers. I think that responses may have been aimed at a view looking in from the outside. Many very intelligent people have not made it through the nuclear program and the same can be said of the Navy officer programs. You seem to have a very possitive attitude so I suspect that you will have no problem.

P.S. Does the UofI still have a cow with a window into its stomach?

[taterhead]

Dave-

You remind me of my brother. 

Once you join the Navy, whether as an E or an O, no one gives a rat's ass how you got there.  It doen't matter if you went to M.I.T. or I.T.T.  Once you get in, its all about how you perform your duties.

The Navy has no interest in screwing you over.  We have more important things to do, like deployments, maintenance, drills, etc.  The "why me" kid doesn't understand this.  The "why me" kid thinks the Navy is out to screw him.  You either contribute or you are jettisoned.

Just being honest with you, you sound like a bit of an elitist.  I had to hold my tongue (fingers) last night when I read your first post for the first time.  A good nights sleep has tempered my reply.   Whether you mean to come of as arrogant or not, you did in my estimation, which is why you are encountering some resistance here. 

Don't make the mistake of thinking that being an Officer, or in your case an Officer candidate, makes you any better or smarter than that HS grad to which you degradingly refer.  Right now, there are hundreds of HS graduates shimming out, feeding up SGs, controlling electrical distribution, etc at sea on reactors.  Officers and Enlisted folks have specific jobs to perform, none more noble, technical, or honorable than the other.   In today's Navy, degrees are becoming more common in the Enlisted ranks. 

These are things you will learn, maybe.  If not, you will be the Officer that I pray comes to my division, so that I may train you up the right way 

[PWHoppe]

To All,

Just a brief reminder to keep our posts civil and not engage in any inflammatory comments. Let's all be respectful of each others points of view and support one another. I know each of us try to do that but sometimes we get a little carried away and sometimes get a little too bit cynical. Please do not initiate any arguments, or tension, we just want the free flow of thoughts and opinions. So make sure we keep it professional

your friendly neighborhood moderator,

pat

[dpalm2]

Yes, also a cow that you can stick your hand inside. And one that has 9 stomachs.  Maybe its all one cow; I'm no aggi so I have no idea.  I know I seem arrogant, but I'm also sure I'll be humbled in a hurry if I decide to sign the papers.  I stated my GPA not to be cocky or vain, but as a means of presenting history/qualifications.  I'm well aware of the fact that no one cares what I did before I joined, just what I contribute when I'm there.  But what school I went to will still be somewhat important to employers post service.  I'm still wondering what happens if I, for some reason, don't make it through OCS. What if I break my ankle or fail out(not that I'm planning on it, but like I've been told, I could get screwed if I don't watch my back). 

[Fermi2]

LOL I cannot believe you came on a board populated by mostly ex sailors and asked an open ended question about whether the Navy will screw you over!

Of course it will, and you'll like it and look back fondly on it years later!

Mike

[dpalm2]

my question about whether the navy would screw me over was only to get peoples attention. The real questions were in my post.  I don't really want that question answered.

[Marlin]

  I'm still wondering what happens if I, for some reason, don't make it through OCS. What if I break my ankle or fail out(not that I'm planning on it, but like I've been told, I could get screwed if I don't watch my back). 

This is a question best answered by your recruiter, it may depend on length of school. Even the Naval academy has a cutoff beyond which some enlisted obligation will be required, I think that it was the sophmore year. Again ask your recruiter.

[Fermi2]

I know that man. I was just imagining the smile on every ex squids face when they saw the subject of this thread.

Mike

[PWHoppe]

I know that man. I was just imagining the smile on every ex squids face when they saw the subject of this thread.

Mike

Brought a smile to my face, it was an obvious

[dpalm2]

Glad you guys got a kick out of it. Thanks for all your help; i guess it's time to talk to a recruiter.

                       Dave

[BuddyThePug]

P.S.    Red, why waste your time posting if your not going to say anything meaningful/helpful.  Don't call me a tool, look at yourself... Congrats on owning a Harley, what an accomplishment, I had a panhead the day I turned 16. I usually don't advertise that fact though.

After a reply like that, I almost hope that the Navy does what it does best ...

A good challenging assignment when the NPS pipeline is complete would be the Enterprise...a lot of history there, and unique engineering to that ship...

[dpalm2]

guess I just won't join then...thanks for convincing me not to.

[taterhead]

guess I just won't join then...thanks for convincing me not to.

It just gets better and better...

[M1Ark]

guess I just won't join then...thanks for convincing me not to.

Dave,

If the guys who post on nukeworker made you decide not to join the navy then you definately made the right decision.  I plan on laughing for the next 10 minutes. 

Thank you

[dpalm2]

This will be my last reply because we're just a LITTLE off topic.  They didn't convince me not to. The point is that I have a choice and either way, I WIN. Goodbye all.