Career progression and quals questions

[check valve]

Hi all, thanks for any insight you may have for me.  I will be getting out next September, and hope to go into operations.  I would like to know what the typical progression for an operator is, starting at entry level NLO/AO, moving up from there.  My understanding as of now is:  NLO, some kind of "step" program from there, RO, CRS, SM.  I am unclear what CRS means or what license they hold.
I don't want to start another thread on whether or not instant SRO is a good idea.  As of right now, I am trying to find out if I should even expect to find any offers at this level.  My key points are this:  8.5 year MM1 (maybe chief this summer), EWS, (Maybe EOOW this summer), BS in HR management, plus all the normal QA quals, etc.  I would love insight into how I might look to employers, and how I can get in above the bottom level.  I am considering doing another bachelor's from Excelsior right now, and tossing around the idea of the master's in engineering management from ODU. 
Sorry, I know I asked a lot, and I have tried searching first.  Let me know anything you might have to help me!   

[M1Ark]

The difference in time to license depends on several factors one of which is you as an individual and the bigger part is union vs. non-union plants.  I got out of the navy in 94 after 6 years in and hired on as an nlo at my first plant and was fully qualified after 1 year.  I was sitting in an RO license class at my three year point and again sitting in an SRO class at my 7 year point.  I've been to lots of other nuclear plants either benchmarking or peer visits and found that most of them are unionized and the progression is much slower (Anywhere from 7-15 years for promotion to RO).  I've been out of the navy for 12 years now and have obtained an SRO license at both a BWR and PWR.  If I would have went to a union plant I might still be an nlo (which isn't bad).  NLO is a very good job.

A CRS (Control Room Supervisor) is similar to EOOW.  They hold an SRO license and reports to the SM who is in charge of the shift and possibly multiple control rooms.

[check valve]

Thanks for the reply.  So if I understand correctly, going to a union plant may very well stop your career in its tracks?  That doesn't seem right.  How does this work?  Can anyone tell me more in depth what is involved maybe from time of hire to qualification?
The instant qualification process.  Does this only apply to SRO?  Can I be hired into instant RO quals? 
I have a bachelor's degree, non nuclear related.  (New School HR management)  Should I get one of the easier degrees that is nuclear related?  Will this help my situation as far as getting instant advanced quals?

[Roll Tide]

The union provides for promotion (including RO licensing) based in part upon seniority. At times, this has been a hold-up. Currently plants are either experiencing retirements or bracing for them; either way license class will be sooner for new NLOs.

SRO may or may not be union at a union plant; TVA has no bargaining member (union-eligible) SROs or trainees, while FPL has union and management SROs and trainees.

If RO at a utility is union, then union approval is required for RO class. That usually means NO.

[check valve]

To be sure I am clear so far-

SRO may or may not be union, depending on the company. 

Progression timelines are affected by union seniority requirements, but conditions are likely to improve.

No instant RO quals at union plants. 

[Roll Tide]

Instant RO at union plants is extremely rare; I can only name 1 that has done it in the past 5 years. Other plants could get into a tight and agree to it; no promises.

Right on the money on the rest

[M1Ark]

To be sure I am clear so far-

No instant RO quals at union plants. 

FPL just hired an Instant RO class.  It was negotiated through the union.  The class consist of roughly half recent college engineer graduates with no plant experience and the other half navy nukes with no degree.  The two I've met are 6 and 8 year navy mechanics.  Roll Tide is right in that things will change in the future but what I stated regarding union plants are true today. 

RO Instant programs are rare in that only an SRO Instant program is reccognized by the NRC.  I have seen RO Instants in the past but is usually on a case-by-case program requiring waivers. The RO Instant class I'm mentioning will probably take 3 years of training before they get their RO license.

[check valve]

Yes, this is just what I was hoping to hear.  About three years for an instant RO.  Here is the impression I have of where I stand right now.  Anyone with good knowledge feel free to correct me:

I have a B.S. in HR MGT, 8.5 year E6/or 7, EWS, great evaluations, etc.  I can expect that at the end of next summer, I will be able to get tons of offers for NLO positions, probably no "instant RO" positions, and a good chance of one or two "instant SRO" offers. 
I am not EOOW qualified, (Maybe before I get out)and my degree is non nuclear.  I am still so confused about what is the best way to get into the field.  (LOL is said I didn't want to create another instant SRO post and that's just what I'm doing!)
The only comparison I have right now is the situation I see at prototype.  We have Navy staff that qualify EOOW with all their operations experience, and they usually do well, but not always.  Then when the new civilian staff come in to qualify, they are just glorified students, and we have to suffer through their growing pains.  Some are better than others.  Is this the same dynamic for the SROs that come up from NLO vs. the instant SROs?  Or is there more to it that I can't understand?  Because in all reality, sure, I wouldn't like to be viewed as inept, but if the end goal is going to be the same, I don't see any justification to not speed up the process if at all possible.  Comments?

[shayne]

Your qualifications will certainly get you in the door.  You just have to hope the door is open.  Most of the plants hire NLOs every fuel cycle which is about every 18-24 months.  So if you are willing to go anywhere in the country, you have better odds than if you are just trying to get into one plant, which could be a long time between classes.  I would also consider maintenance positions to get your foot in the door.  Many companies will fill positions from inside before posting to the general public.

As you compare it to prototype, I believe it is just about the same (there were some exceptions).  I found the enlisted MMs EOOW qualified, and some EMs, (ETs just lacked the steam plant knowledge or they just wanted to be back in the RO seat) were some of the better watch officers that I had the privilege of working with in the box.  If this is true, then the CRS that started at NLO are better.  In my short two years at a commercial nuclear power plant, I had some opinions of a few CRSs and I generally liked working with the ones who started at the NLO level much better.  However, I did like working with STAs that didn't have a strong operational background, so an instant SRO in that position I thought was a better balance for the shift.

I started as a NLO with the goals of moving up into the RO licensing, but after a couple of years, I realized that wasn't what I wanted to do.  Moving on in careers was much easier for me from the NLO level that it may have been from a licensing aspect.  So it is my opinion that starting at NLO is better than an instant route.  You could get into NLO, learn the plant, see how the operational structure works, then move into positions that interest you.  Then if the RO/SRO Upgrade is the route you want, you will also have a better understanding of the plant.

[Roll Tide]

RO Instant programs are rare in that only an SRO Instant program is reccognized by the NRC.  I have seen RO Instants in the past but is usually on a case-by-case program requiring waivers. The RO Instant class I'm mentioning will probably take 3 years of training before they get their RO license.

To put this in perspective, I had been on the board for 3 months as an RO by my 3 year point after hiring in at Turkey Point. No waivers, no special permission, no union negotiations. Luck of the draw, but I saw people do it in 2.5 years. You can do it under 5 years many places (as workers retire).

[Fermi2]

When I interviewed at Davis Besse in 1990 one of the things that turned me away from them was the length of time it took to get into a license class due to Union issues. At the time I believe it was around 9 to 12 years. I figured if I went somewhere else and it was merely based on ability it would take a lot less time. So I chose Fermi, which had a better initial pay at the NLO level. I was in an RO class in 16 months, an SRO class in a bit over 6 years and a Shift Manager at 9 1/2 years.

My background was Navy MM and ELT. I also had a First Class Steam Engineer License from the state of Ohio but that came after I got my RO License. I worked at a dirt burner in Ohio on my days off at Fermi. It was rather stange being a Control Room Operator at a dirt burner at the same time I was walking the floors at Fermi but the money was excellent.

Mike

[M1Ark]

To put this in perspective, I had been on the board for 3 months as an RO by my 3 year point after hiring in at Turkey Point. No waivers, no special permission, no union negotiations. Luck of the draw, but I saw people do it in 2.5 years. You can do it under 5 years many places (as workers retire).

Turkey Point is not a typical plant in that their turnover is higher than most.  St. Lucie will normally take 11-15 years from initial hire to RO.  Here's some additional plant data I know about from benchmarking trips  (Initial hire to RO):

Diablo Canyon - 11 years
Susquehanna - 15 years
Nine Mile Point - 7 years
San Onofre - 11 years

Use your best judgement... non-union promotes the best candidates.  Union plants promotes the best senior candidates.

Either way the NLO position pays well and is rewarding. 

[Roll Tide]

Turkey Point is not a typical plant in that their turnover is higher than most. 

That could be the understatement of the year! M1 is exactly correct in that it isn't typical, but fast advancement is possible if you are willing to go where they have the biggest shortage of operators. That would include union plants allowing instant bargaining SROs.