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Poll

Who will build and operate the next generation of nuclear?

a consortium of energy companies.
19 (48.7%)
a US government / energy company partnership
16 (41%)
the US government (i.e. DOE)
4 (10.3%)

Total Members Voted: 14

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Offline RP Instructor

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Nuclear - The Next Generation
« on: Sep 11, 2003, 06:02 »
After the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973, the immediate U.S. response was to become energy self-sufficient by the 21st century. Sadly, 30 years later, the U.S. is not where it should be in terms of energy self-sufficiency. In fact, the world economy and its' governments are directly impacted by the flow of oil from the Middle East. The technology exists NOW to begin the next generation of nuclear-power plants here in the U.S., and we can then reduce the U.S. dependence on Middle East oil to a smidgen. What's your opinion? When do you believe the U.S. will begin construction of the next generation of nuclear-power plants? Will they be built and owned by an energy consortium, built by the U. S. government and managed by a firm like "Duke Energy", "Progress Energy" "Dominion Power" or "Entergy", or completely owned and operated by the US government?

Offline RP Instructor

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Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #1 on: Sep 13, 2003, 08:38 »
I could only pose one question per poll. So here's "Part Two" of my "not-so-scientific", "just-want-your-viewpoint" opinion poll on the next generation of nuclear power plants. Again, the question: "Will the 'next generation'of nuclear power plants be built and owned by an energy consortium, built by the U. S. government and managed by a firm like "Duke Energy", "Progress Energy" "Dominion Power" or "Entergy", or completely owned and operated by the US government?"

Offline darkmatter

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #2 on: Sep 14, 2003, 10:42 »
I well remember the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973. I had rode with a Friend(?) to the Airport in San Francisco from Mare Island in his car in the evening. As He gets on the plane he hands me two bucks and says " Oh...yeah you'll need to put gas in my car to drive it back to the base". The Gas Stations had that odd and even license plate number for alternate days to fill up and they closed by 8PM ......Guess what time it was? I spent the night sleeping in the car waiting for the gas stations to open at 6 AM.
I've been waiting ever since for a Hydrogen or Electric car that was practical.
Those that don't learn from History, repeat it.

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #3 on: Sep 14, 2003, 06:31 »
Electric cars are practical, however, they have a major flaw.  When charging, the batteries often overcharge and do one thing...EXPLODE.  Not a timely thing if you are needing to go some place, or if it is in your garage.  Fire, destruction, death.  Not good Mav. :'(

Offline RP Instructor

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #4 on: Sep 15, 2003, 06:16 »
"The Gas Stations had that odd and even license plate number for alternate days to fill up and they closed by 8PM ......Guess what time it was? I spent the night sleeping in the car waiting for the gas stations to open at 6 AM."

I too, recall the odd/even requirement for gasoline purchases. I was a teenager then, and I recall getting-up before dawn, taking my Mom's car up to the gas station on the corner from our house, and waiting in line with everyone else in the neighborhood, until the gas station opened. I lived in New York City then, and I recall where violence broke-out when gas stations closed with cars still in line, when folks where suspected of "jumping the line", and when the station exhausted its gasoline supply with people still in line. Remember too, when you were only allowed to purchase a fixed dollar amount? The technology exists now with hybrid cars (gas/electric - in fact, Honda sells a hybrid)so we can significantly reduce our dependence on Middle East oil if we wanted to.

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #5 on: Sep 15, 2003, 06:49 »
best way around the odd/even license plate thingie was to use rental cars..... they could fill anytime at any gas station.  buying a "beater" with the opposite plate helped too.  just a couple of hints in case we go there again.  
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Offline RP Instructor

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #6 on: Sep 16, 2003, 05:31 »
Of those that responded, the majority believe there will be a "next generation of nuclear power", it's re-birth will be within the next 10-20 years, and be built and operated by a consortium of energy companies. This stands-to-reason, since even with re-licensing, most existing nuclear plants will begin decommissioning within the next 20 years. As far as the cost of new plants, the burden would have to be shared. Utilities would be un-likely to take on the burden alone.
So now for the next series of questions:
1.) Where will they be built (keeping in mind public opinion of "not-in-my-backyard")?
2.) What about the nuclear waste issue (also a NIMBY issue)? Where will the next Barnwell or Hanford be located?
3.)What about spent fuel re-processing? Will the U.S. pursue that option?
4.) If the US pursues spent fuel pool re-processing, will it be a private venture, or a government project (i.e. DOE)?

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #7 on: Sep 17, 2003, 09:55 »
ohcay, i'll bite   [smiley=cheeburga.gif]
1)they'll be built in hilly/mountaineous areas that are unappealing to agriculture interests
2)no more barnwell/hanford repositories as such.  incineration will become the vogue
3)spent fuel will be reprocessed, most likely shipped to france
4)see #3
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Offline MercTech

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #8 on: Sep 17, 2003, 11:12 »
I would say the next generation of nuclear power plants began in the 1990s.  The problem is that it didn't get to a nuclear backwater like the United States.

One former co-worker is now the RPM for a new plant starting up in Malaysia.  The third world countries are reaping the benefits of all the lessons learned from the U.S., Germany, and France.

But, it just isn't "politically correct" to build a new plant in the "good ol' US of A".

I've been following the flack in the old hometown newspaper, Jackson Mississippi, about the proposed building of a new unit at Grand Gulf.

Are there any techs at Grand Gulf that care to give some insight as to what the workers for Entergy are hearing?

Steven Jerkins
HPT/PNNL
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Offline MercTech

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #9 on: Sep 17, 2003, 11:26 »
You needed one more selection on your question:

A consortium of nuclear utilities will try to build a new plant and be sued to bankruptcy by clueless environmental activitsts.

Cynical ain't I
<grin>
Steven Jerkins
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #10 on: Sep 17, 2003, 01:09 »
"I would say the next generation of nuclear power plants began in the 1990s.  The problem is that it didn't get to a nuclear backwater like the United States".

Good point. Europe and Asia are taking advantage now, of the benefits of nuclear power, whereas the US continues to depend on fossil fuels. What precipitated the creation of this thread, is that I believe it's time we communicate to the Arab oil-producing nations, that we no longer need nor want their oil. September 11th was a wake-up call, that the US has no friends in the Arab world, and let's not kid ourselves into believing that we do. So I say: "stop trading with them". We are financing terrorism against the US by buying their oil - that's the bottomline. Use the technology that exists now, to free ourselves of our dependence on Middle East oil.

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #11 on: Sep 17, 2003, 01:51 »
"A consortium of nuclear utilities will try to build a new plant and be sued to bankruptcy by clueless environmental activitsts"

Oh I'm sure the environmentalists (read, actors)will come out of the woodwork, and they'll drive-up in their Cadillac Escalades, Lincoln Navigators, Ford Excursions, Toyota Sequoias, etc. However, the energy issue will eventually become an energy crisis, like it was in 1973, and in order to ensure national security, the court cases will be dismissed and the plants will be built.

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #12 on: Sep 17, 2003, 07:50 »
they will only be built because we are to lazy to turn off those flood lights, and to stop buying crap like fry daddys. (and big industry will lobby them to be built. $$)

a faulty energy policy should not be reason for a forced solution.  the energy-mainly electric- crisis is due to over solicitaton by utility market managers.. All utilities know this and gladly accept the profits that we rain down on them.  The NE power outage was not a lack of power problem it was profit taking-put off replacing old out of date infrastructure to keep stock prices high- the calif crisis was the result of free wheeling power brokerage.. BE ACTIVE, Read the facts, know why you pay tremendous fuel adjustments when fuel cost is the lowest in years- coal is low, uranium is almost free... can u say daisy chain?

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #13 on: Sep 18, 2003, 06:35 »
"they will only be built because we are to lazy to turn off those flood lights, and to stop buying crap like fry daddys. (and big industry will lobby them to be built)."

True. Conversation would help alleviate our demand for electricity. However, considering every desktop has a PC, our reliance on the computer overall, and that every home and business is run on electricity, the demand for electricity will grow despite conservation.
My point is, the US needs to significantly reduce its' dependence on fossil fuels by moving people into mass transportation (i.e. trains and trolleys), reduce dependence on the personal automobile, and not risk its' economy to the volatility of the Middle East, nor finance terrorism against its' own interests worldwide. Nuclear can help achieve that goal.

"a faulty energy policy should not be reason for a forced solution.  the energy-mainly electric- crisis is due to over solicitaton by utility market managers.. All utilities know this and gladly accept the profits that we rain down on them.  The NE power outage was not a lack of power problem it was profit taking-put off replacing old out of date infrastructure to keep stock prices high- the calif crisis was the result of free wheeling power brokerage.. BE ACTIVE, Read the facts, know why you pay tremendous fuel adjustments when fuel cost is the lowest in years- coal is low, uranium is almost free... "

You appear to have issues with the workings of capitalism. Unless the US plans on throwing itself back to the 19th century, heating homes with wood, lighting them with lanterns, curing food with salt, and riding in horse-and-buggy, the increased demand for electricity will force the US to seek a solution, and (rightfully) consumers will pay for that solution. (For the umpteenth-time) Nuclear needs to be part of that solution. As stated in the companion thread, Europe and Asia have made nuclear power an intricate part of their energy policy - the US needs to as well.

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #14 on: Sep 18, 2003, 06:50 »
Quote
can u say daisy chain?

the only thing wrong with a daisy chain is when yer not invited.
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #15 on: Sep 18, 2003, 06:59 »
Quote
[i
My point is, the US needs to significantly reduce its' dependence on fossil fuels by moving people into mass transportation (i.e. trains and trolleys), reduce dependence on the personal automobile, and not risk its' economy to the volatility of the Middle East, nor finance terrorism against its' own interests worldwide.
Unless the US plans on throwing itself back to the 19th century, heating homes with wood, lighting them with lanterns, curing food with salt, and riding in horse-and-buggy, the increased demand for electricity will force the US to seek a solution,

re: the 1st part... yawn...that's been said like, forever, ya know?  they were screaming that in the 70s.  yawn.  quit wasting time trying to turn around an entire culture, we can't even fill high occupancy vehicle lanes during rush hour with compact cars, let alone suv vehicles.  yinze'd go further trying to convert government owned vehicles to natural/propane gas fuel.
re: the 2nd part...oh quit scaring me.  how about convincing the power generation groups that they are screwing over the country by utilizing natural gas for electric production instead of letting the little guys use it to heat their houses 'n cook their food?
is electric demand on the rise? duh!  been like that for, like what, 120 years?  c'mon!
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #16 on: Sep 18, 2003, 07:19 »
It didn't take long for this thread to "fly-off-course" (which appears to happen quite often here at "nukeworker").
Let's get back on track, shall we? The question is whether or not nuclear will experience a re-birth (see the companion thread), and if so, who'll finance it?

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #17 on: Sep 18, 2003, 10:12 »
when demand gets high enough, the banks will finance the construction of additional generating stations, be they nuclear or whatever.
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Offline MercTech

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #18 on: Sep 18, 2003, 03:38 »
Iraq, Iran, China, Maylaysia, and Taiwan have more modern power reactors than we do.

Kind of scary.
Steven Jerkins
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mikemckinley

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #19 on: Sep 22, 2003, 02:04 »
heard there is $1B budgeted in bushes energy policy budget.  it is for design and build of htgr.  saw that on cnn.  would like more details.  would like to review the design.  anyone who has worked fsv knows what a sweet potential helium coolant is.  
i reccomend that they design it horizantal instead of vertical.  big imposing monolith is not the way to go.

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #20 on: Sep 22, 2003, 02:24 »
mikemckinley....pulled this offa 'sloglo's nuke news' fro 9/04/03.  maybe it'll help in your search.  btw, that thread is for anyone to post nuke news, 'k?

http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/FuelCellToday/IndustryInformation/IndustryInformationExternal/NewsDisplayArticle/0,1602,3352,00.html
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alphadude

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #21 on: Sep 22, 2003, 02:52 »
well the money plan for such big ticket items is a bit difficult to determine in the macro scale because of new models being exercised on a weekly basis.  the rebirth will be a slo process and perhaps we are already in the early stages and not too aware of it.  remember most plants have had extensions way beyond 40 year life so that would qualify as part of "rebirth"- fuel % is being raised so that fits in, MOX is near so that fits, as for breaking ground on a brand new facility- dont expect it in the next 5 to 10 years.  We would need an economic situation in the US akin to the time when plants were being built. - Right now the cash flow is not there for that to happen.  There is no new baby boom-so demand will not peak like the 60s/70s, mostly the rebirth will be refurbish the infrastructure and that has already began.

and besides when u have oil men as president and vice president gooo figure!!!

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #22 on: Sep 23, 2003, 04:24 »
soon's we can get the market to commit to the ready purchase of the power the plants will be built.  one of the mostest major differences between the 60/70s 'n today's economy is that there is not the same industrial base demand for power.  until we establish industry again in this country, we will strangle ourselves with limited power from economicaly driven power generation.  in udder words, iffen ya don't demand it, ya won't get it, commonly known as 3 year old 101.
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #23 on: Sep 23, 2003, 07:24 »
There is a couple pretty good articles in Nuc News Sept. 2003 about need and next generation. MIT did a study, not just by nuc engineers, but including Political Science and Economic dudes and they say the world need a thousand new reactors by 2050. The say in the US 90% of the carbon emissions come from coal while only 52% of the electricity. Fossil fuels will provide the world with 40% of the greenhouse emissions by 2020. chilling!  
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #24 on: Sep 23, 2003, 10:51 »
Quote
There is a couple pretty good articles in Nuc News Sept. 2003 about need and next generation. MIT did a study, not just by nuc engineers, but including Political Science and Economic dudes and they say the world need a thousand new reactors by 2050. The say in the US 90% of the carbon emissions come from coal while only 52% of the electricity. Fossil fuels will provide the world with 40% of the greenhouse emissions by 2020. chilling!  

I believe it... go to china - any major/medium or large city - take a deep breath... then blow your nose!  it's truely amazing! (and nasty)

mikemckinley

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #25 on: Sep 23, 2003, 08:33 »
DID some research the other night on htgr.  didnt find what i want but, did see pres' energy policy and that led me to nei.org.  seems some of the idea is to alse gen hydrogen.  it was estimated that we woould meed 200 plants to generate enough hydrogen to replace the gas used by the cars in the us.  note, this was in whitehouse energy policy, and further, remember that Arnold has mentioned that he would have ca. work with the auto industry to biuld refueling stations for hydrogen.  since this capital investment was one of the major impeds to hydrogen auto devpmt,  well for what its worth that is what i have found out so far.
now i am wondering how the hydrogen will be generated.  i know there are hydrogen recombiners, but that isnt a significant source of hydrogen is it.  if i am off the thread please disregard.

HAIRDUDE

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #26 on: Sep 24, 2003, 12:14 »
Here's the short and skinny on Nuke Plant Hydrogen Production. It takes a butt-load of electricity to make hydrogen. Power Plants produce butt-loads of electricity. A match made in heeaven.
Floyd

HAIRDUDE

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #27 on: Sep 24, 2003, 12:32 »
As global energy needs continue to increase, many believe that electricity will be supplemented with other energy carriers, e.g., hydrogen. A hydrogen based economy could allow expansion of energy production while improving environmental quality. However, this vision of the future relies upon developing hydrogen production methods that are competitive economically and that meet growing environmental concerns. Nuclear-based hydrogen production using advanced reactor technologies may hold the solution. Nuclear energy is particularly advantageous because:

Nuclear technology for hydrogen production is proven,
High temperatures are available,
Nuclear power yields large thermal energy generation for relatively low cost, and
Nuclear power has very low pollution emissions.
Three nuclear-based hydrogen processes currently in development around the world are particularly promising.

Electrolysis
The simplest and cleanest way to produce hydrogen is by electrolysis of water. The actual electrolytic step of splitting water molecules with electricity is very efficient (0 to 90 percent). However, when electricity generation is accounted for, overall thermal efficiency drops to 25 to 45 percent. In general, electrolysis is considered expesive and is only used for small production facilities.

Use of new advances in high-efficiency electrolytic cells may significantly reduce costs, making it a viable hydrogen production method when cheap, off-peak electricity can be used.

When coupled with a nuclear power plant, electrolysis is an extremely clean method of producing hydrogen.

I thought my last reply was a little on the "duh" side so I decided since you were interested enough to ask the question, I should take the time to give a real answer. Sorry if I sounded like I was being short with you before.

Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.
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greengoo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #28 on: Sep 24, 2003, 06:44 »
I have met several environmental activists in my time.  Two words, SEEK HELP.  Anyway, enough old business.  I was watching car and driver television last saturday, and GM is coming out with a hydrogen/electric/gas powered car in a few years.  That is all well and good, but I am not sure if I like the idea of a hydrogen bomb sitting right under my butt.  Neither do I like the idea of a gas engine sitting next to a hydrogen fuel cell.  Also, I also saw the electric cars when they first came out.  They have one small problen, they charge, the get hot, they go BOOM.  'nuff said?  In case people are wondering, yes, I am antisocial, and yes, I am paranoid.  That is just how I am, however, I will not subject anyone to my hatefull views of certain organizations...after all, just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't following me. ;D

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #29 on: Sep 26, 2003, 08:37 »
I had to do a report on hydrogen economy for college last semester.
5 of the major Automobile manufacturers will start producing hydrogen cars for the U.S. by 2008.
"Norsk Hydro" is a big dealer in all this, Iceland is going totally hydrogen.
With the use of their hydro-power the efficiency increases quite a bit.
UofI circle campus downtown has employee cras that run off hydrogen, BMW is using hydrogen as the power source for everything but but the engine.
The obstacles facing the U.S. are refueling infrastructure and production of hydrogen considering we are already close to brown-outs in many areas.
Lucky for us the major push is Hydrogen/Nuke plants, i will attempt to find the link explaining all this later.

http://ttp://www.bmwgroup.com/e/0_0_www_bmwgroup_com/5_verantwortung/5_4_publikationen/5_4_1_umweltbericht/5_4_1_1_umbeltbericht/5_4_1_1_2_focus/5_4_1_1_2_1_clean.shtml?5_5


Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #30 on: Sep 26, 2003, 10:56 »
i'm putting this here 'stead of dainjer's new thread, cause i don't wanna corrupt that one.  moderators are free to move it,'k?
anyway,  how long will it take before the greenies decide that they cannot abide having nuke plants built for any reason and launch a public relations campaign linking nukes and hydrogen bombs?  i kin see the tv adz..... tmi with the hindenberg tied off to the cooling tower.
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #31 on: Sep 26, 2003, 06:57 »
sounds good on the surface-engineers dream- the are draw backs- trasportation being one- which does increase the risk. but no big deal.

the one thing no one mentioned is the need for ultra pure water. any impurity-will result in a brine that can be very nasty- no u cant dump it in the ocean or a lake.  this could be a chemical feed stock but i doubt it because cheaper things are already in use. also chlorine and other gases will be evolved-  so with water cost now higer than gasoline (he he see how much u pay for dansi vs gasoline)this may be a trade off for luxury. the main byproduct is oxygen sounds good huh? well oxygen is toxic to plants so its ironic to think that the dumping of oxygen is actually pollution.  perhaps if it could be converted to ozone and sent to the poles..hmmmmm but ozone is toxic to people and life.  ohhhh well! this is not the solution but i do like it because of the balanced energy policy fit.  

DainJer

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #32 on: Sep 26, 2003, 10:09 »
Quote
sounds good on the surface-engineers dream- the are draw backs- trasportation being one- which does increase the risk. but no big deal.

the one thing no one mentioned is the need for ultra pure water. any impurity-will result in a brine that can be very nasty- no u cant dump it in the ocean or a lake.  this could be a chemical feed stock but i doubt it because cheaper things are already in use. also chlorine and other gases will be evolved-  so with water cost now higer than gasoline (he he see how much u pay for dansi vs gasoline)this may be a trade off for luxury. the main byproduct is oxygen sounds good huh? well oxygen is toxic to plants so its ironic to think that the dumping of oxygen is actually pollution.  perhaps if it could be converted to ozone and sent to the poles..hmmmmm but ozone is toxic to people and life.  ohhhh well! this is not the solution but i do like it because of the balanced energy policy fit.  


If you go read the links i gave on the "Nuclear/Hydrogen" post, the only byproduct from hydrogen power cells is pure potable water.
The weak link is the amount of electricity it takes to produce hydrogen.

Offline AMU

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #33 on: Sep 28, 2003, 01:10 »
In the October 2003 issue of Popular Science, there is a short article about nuclear power plant resurgence being funded by government to test a new plant design Very High Temperature Reactor (VHTR).  The online version of the article is:

http:// http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,477255,00.html

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #34 on: Sep 29, 2003, 06:58 »
Quote
well oxygen is toxic to plants so its ironic to think that the dumping of oxygen is actually pollution

i'm perplexed... iffen o2 is toxic to plants, 'n plants produce o2 via photosynthesis, why aren't the plants killing themselves?  why doesn't grass 'n the lower elevation plants kill the trees?  how many heavy breathing mammals gotta be present to counteract that o2 poison? 'n how did kudzu ever get a start in this country with all the 02 pollution that wuz hear?  'n do greenhouse workers gotta use ignition source permits to keep frum blowing themselves 'n the plants off the planet?
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alphadude

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #35 on: Sep 29, 2003, 06:30 »
i see apples and oranges- the ideal byproduct from pure water production of hydrogen is o2 and h2- now how do ya get pure water??? distilation and ion exchange - distilation produces still bottoms and ion exchange produces spent resins- its nice to read nuclear news and stuff but those egg heads work in colleges and gave us the "too cheap to meter" sales pitch on nuclear power.. caviat emptor  besides most of ya will be too old to benefit- the rule of 20s always applies- 20 years from dream to production.  

alphadude

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #36 on: Sep 29, 2003, 06:46 »
surely slo go u jest?


rlbinc

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #37 on: Sep 30, 2003, 03:49 »
It will be a consortium, either U.N. sponsored, funded by the World Bank or World Trade Organization. I'm not talking New World Order stuff. The need is that dire and the technological decisions of large-population developing nations can affect the quality of life on the whole planet.

Advances in the standard of living are accompanied by the consumption of energy. We could burn candles and heat the old cave with a small pile of wood and consume less energy, but that lifestyle is a tough sell.

As technological advancement spreads through globalized trade, third world economies are emerging and require additional energy to support their advancement.

There are a billion people in China alone, requiring electrical power.

We simply cannot afford the consequences of the stack emissions of fossil power in that application. A large US city has 20 million people. This is the equivalent of 50 such cities and the associated power requirement in China.

There is a large fossil plant in Monroe Michigan. It produces 1800 Mwe and consumes 150 - 50 ton coal cars every 24 hours of operation. 7500 tons of coal or 1.5 million pounds of coal a day. A high school chemistry student can tell you that 12 grams of Carbon combines with 32 grams of Oxygen to make 48 grams of CO2.
That 1.5 million pounds of coal per day becomes 6 million pounds of CO2 per day when shot through the boiler. (This all assumes 100% combustion - which never seems to happen.)

If 1 billion people each need 1 kilowatt of power, that's
1 million Megawatts, a thousand new nuke plants. Just to avoid building 550 of Monroe fossil plants and attempting to live with the attendant 3.3 billion pounds of CO2 per day.

I'm not a firm believer in Global Warming, but if there is proof, it would become painfully evident in the above scenario.

Nuclear power isn't just a good idea, it's a survival strategy for a global civilization. The Nuclear Generated Hydrogen initiative will also ensure that car emissions are harmless water vapor. Another consideration for weaning off of fossil and petroleum energy sources.

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #38 on: Sep 30, 2003, 07:15 »
alphalphaboy... eye joust knot in jest, eye ingest bye jowl.  howz bout ewe?
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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #39 on: Sep 30, 2003, 07:02 »
so i guess u all gonna vote out the oil barrons in the white house-since his deddy took nuclear out of the energy policy back when deddy was in office- if u dont get him out dont count on many changes- so far lip service is all thats come out of the white house for nukes- we are so desperate that we will settle for any thing on the nuclear plate-

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #40 on: Oct 01, 2003, 04:29 »
nah.... we need alla fossil burners we kin git so's dat we kin keep our vegatative co-inhabitors alive via da co2 emissions.  'sides, once we burn up alla fossil remains, den we gotz ta split atoms to maintain the electric demand that well bee in place at dat time.... see rblinc previous entry on dis thread.
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ageoldtech

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #41 on: Oct 01, 2003, 06:28 »
The Old USA must get off it's butt and not worrry about the oil boys. The general pubic is misinformed of the current situation. Blackouts ocurr at an alarming rate. With the current population growth we will have rolling blackouts to most of the the USA in the next decade, unless congress decides that nukes is the gig!

alphadude

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #42 on: Oct 02, 2003, 06:34 »
but the oil boys are in the white house and are the party leaders- hmmm something aint right.


alphadude

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #43 on: Oct 02, 2003, 06:39 »
binc ya preachin to he choir... no one here will admit that the administation needs to change...  the leaders that  made the statement that coal is our best hope... did ya mention the mercury discharge from fossil plants too??? Global warming is in the fossil record and is part of history.. it happens often and will always happen.. somethings just bring it about faster.. oh if u lived on the gulf u would know about global warming-the ocean is rising folks.. no matter what u believe its a fact. 

Offline Rain Man

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #44 on: Oct 03, 2003, 05:08 »
It will all be driven by Moe-Nay.  If the money leans towards fossil burners that is what will be developed.  If it leans toward nukes it will go there.  The US energy policy will follow the same trend that many programs follow.  The USG will pay it lip service and throw token funds at it until something catastrophic happens (Nero fiddles while Rome burns??).  It's a little hard to tie the horse up in the barn after the barn has burned down.  As far a global warming, there is evidence from "experts" that it might or might not be happening.  The problem is that once definitive proof is found we have passed the point of no return.  The world may have passed that point already.
"Giving power and money to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenaged boys." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation (Part Two)
« Reply #45 on: Oct 03, 2003, 10:13 »
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oh if u lived on the gulf u would know about global warming-the ocean is rising folks..

duz dis meen oui ar gittin rida ca? ;)
quando omni flunkus moritati

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dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

Offline SloGlo

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Re: Nuclear - The Next Generation
« Reply #46 on: Oct 03, 2003, 10:18 »
hmmmm.. last time i checked  the big boyz in oil had verry sizeable nuclear holdings... hmmmm, think they might know sumthing?  hmmmmm :-? :-?
quando omni flunkus moritati

dubble eye, dubble yew, dubble aye!

dew the best ya kin, wit watt ya have, ware yinze are!

 


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